Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
illuminating.Grace
captain of 10
Posts: 18

Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by illuminating.Grace »

Mark 9 was shared in a post recently, about plucking out Seers, perfect timing and very helpful.

The Church follows the handbook to the T, the Missionaries "Preach my Gospel", and the leaders and members use of "Handbook 1", which are essentially devices used by Satan to transgress the word of God. Someone or a group of men, at some point in the past, thought up the idea at some point, to not follow Gods word, to not teach it in truth, and instead they devised a method of deceiving millions of people, generation after generation through both books use.

As we learn to come back to sound doctrine as a church, all things that are not canonized need to be shredded first. After that, there are some tares remaining in the canonized scripture that will need to be snuffed out.
I'm ready to publish the list of all the church falsehoods that need to be corrected, and will do so soon. From deceptive home ward requirements, tithing falsehoods, rejecting the United Order, unsound doctrine, there is so much needing to be done to restore and rebuild the church. I delight in this work and posting here will help me contribute to the restoration.

Here are the circumstances.

All deceived missionaries, mission presidents, and Bishops involved in interviewing for ordinances, follow these church instructions. Some people, to the T, they believe they are doing what is just and righteous. In his Justice, God proves the church and those in the church of right doing and wrong doing. He already knows what's ahead but to be just he allows the evidence to first collect.

My friend was recently denied his Baptism, twice, after 2 interviews with the Sisters and/or the Mission President.

Unjust Cause 1 - He was homeless, so the leaders decided they couldn't baptize him because he had no assigned ward.

Unjust Cause 2 - I gave him a home and an address, God made him a way and introduced us, and this second time he was rejected for having a pending court trial... which even by thr deceiving handbook standards, he should have still been accepted. He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.

Soon after, my wife and I were denied our Endowments, by interview with the Bishop last week. He seemed aggravated, and started with, are you guys full tithe payers... Well, I've been following the holy spirits direction with tithing the best I can, and it looks closer to the United Order, I read parts of D&C 119 to him and told him I believed I was a full tithe payer, and said that its a bit different than giving just cash.

Thr Bishop told me that I wasn't following Gods will, neither was I following the Holy Spirit, and I was coming up with revelations for the church that I had no right to receive, that I was deceived basically. So we were rejected this ordinance.

From this forum I came across this scripture, which helps us to know what to do, after being rejected from receiving ordinances that we should have received, due to leadership in the church rejecting us, sinning against us, falsely accusing us, deceiving us, and causing us in some cases to sin as an after effect. There are many more applications for this truth, this is my testimony of it.


Mark 9 Restored Scripture

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.
44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.


My own conclusion:
Therefore, verse 44, be accountable for your on decisions and follow not deceiving leadership. Verse 45, seek and ask of Heavenly Father, that he will make a way for you, and I believe he has, I may be heading to a different ward here shortly to start on that pathway.

I was led today to read this chapter to my friend, who was rejected from Baptism twice, and it helped him, and my family, very much. He was close to tossing everything out the window, I was tempted too, but we need to remember this is his church, not the church of those who have wronged us. There is still hope, and this church will soon receive its judgements and will be back in pure doctrine.


I say this in the name of Jesus Christ

User avatar
JLHPROF
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1087

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by JLHPROF »

So to sum up, you wanted to receive ordinances from an organization but you weren't willing/able to meet the organizational requirements in order to receive them. So you decided the requirements were wrong.

Let's see how that argument works in court. Or at the judgement bar.
We don't get to set the rules or reject those established by authority figures. We don't get to become a law unto ourselves.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Mamabear »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:23 pm Mark 9 was shared in a post recently, about plucking out Seers, perfect timing and very helpful.

The Church follows the handbook to the T, the Missionaries "Preach my Gospel", and the leaders and members use of "Handbook 1", which are essentially devices used by Satan to transgress the word of God. Someone or a group of men, at some point in the past, thought up the idea at some point, to not follow Gods word, to not teach it in truth, and instead they devised a method of deceiving millions of people, generation after generation through both books use.

As we learn to come back to sound doctrine as a church, all things that are not canonized need to be shredded first. After that, there are some tares remaining in the canonized scripture that will need to be snuffed out.
I'm ready to publish the list of all the church falsehoods that need to be corrected, and will do so soon. From deceptive home ward requirements, tithing falsehoods, rejecting the United Order, unsound doctrine, there is so much needing to be done to restore and rebuild the church. I delight in this work and posting here will help me contribute to the restoration.

Here are the circumstances.

All deceived missionaries, mission presidents, and Bishops involved in interviewing for ordinances, follow these church instructions. Some people, to the T, they believe they are doing what is just and righteous. In his Justice, God proves the church and those in the church of right doing and wrong doing. He already knows what's ahead but to be just he allows the evidence to first collect.

My friend was recently denied his Baptism, twice, after 2 interviews with the Sisters and/or the Mission President.

Unjust Cause 1 - He was homeless, so the leaders decided they couldn't baptize him because he had no assigned ward.

Unjust Cause 2 - I gave him a home and an address, God made him a way and introduced us, and this second time he was rejected for having a pending court trial... which even by thr deceiving handbook standards, he should have still been accepted. He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.

Soon after, my wife and I were denied our Endowments, by interview with the Bishop last week. He seemed aggravated, and started with, are you guys full tithe payers... Well, I've been following the holy spirits direction with tithing the best I can, and it looks closer to the United Order, I read parts of D&C 119 to him and told him I believed I was a full tithe payer, and said that its a bit different than giving just cash.

Thr Bishop told me that I wasn't following Gods will, neither was I following the Holy Spirit, and I was coming up with revelations for the church that I had no right to receive, that I was deceived basically. So we were rejected this ordinance.

From this forum I came across this scripture, which helps us to know what to do, after being rejected from receiving ordinances that we should have received, due to leadership in the church rejecting us, sinning against us, falsely accusing us, deceiving us, and causing us in some cases to sin as an after effect. There are many more applications for this truth, this is my testimony of it.


Mark 9 Restored Scripture

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.
44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.


My own conclusion:
Therefore, verse 44, be accountable for your on decisions and follow not deceiving leadership. Verse 45, seek and ask of Heavenly Father, that he will make a way for you, and I believe he has, I may be heading to a different ward here shortly to start on that pathway.

I was led today to read this chapter to my friend, who was rejected from Baptism twice, and it helped him, and my family, very much. He was close to tossing everything out the window, I was tempted too, but we need to remember this is his church, not the church of those who have wronged us. There is still hope, and this church will soon receive its judgements and will be back in pure doctrine.


I say this in the name of Jesus Christ
Good for you to stand up for your friend.
Jesus would never deny anyone baptism because of homelessness.
What a joke. Any church that commits such a grave error should not bear the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope your friend can find someone to baptize him because frankly, he doesn’t need the church.

User avatar
BuriedTartaria
Captain of Tartary
Posts: 1904

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Thanks for sharing all of this! IMO, your friend must have a belief in the Book of Mormon or faith in it if he was wanting to be baptized. I would say the most important part, a testimony of an ancient record that guides one's life, is what he has received. Membership into a church, specifically the LDS church in its current state, I don't think he is missing out on much. But I understand the desire to want to be baptized. It doesn't feel good to be rejected.

User avatar
Fred
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7611
Location: Zion

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Fred »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:23 pm Mark 9 was shared in a post recently, about plucking out Seers, perfect timing and very helpful.

The Church follows the handbook to the T, the Missionaries "Preach my Gospel", and the leaders and members use of "Handbook 1", which are essentially devices used by Satan to transgress the word of God. Someone or a group of men, at some point in the past, thought up the idea at some point, to not follow Gods word, to not teach it in truth, and instead they devised a method of deceiving millions of people, generation after generation through both books use.

As we learn to come back to sound doctrine as a church, all things that are not canonized need to be shredded first. After that, there are some tares remaining in the canonized scripture that will need to be snuffed out.
I'm ready to publish the list of all the church falsehoods that need to be corrected, and will do so soon. From deceptive home ward requirements, tithing falsehoods, rejecting the United Order, unsound doctrine, there is so much needing to be done to restore and rebuild the church. I delight in this work and posting here will help me contribute to the restoration.

Here are the circumstances.

All deceived missionaries, mission presidents, and Bishops involved in interviewing for ordinances, follow these church instructions. Some people, to the T, they believe they are doing what is just and righteous. In his Justice, God proves the church and those in the church of right doing and wrong doing. He already knows what's ahead but to be just he allows the evidence to first collect.

My friend was recently denied his Baptism, twice, after 2 interviews with the Sisters and/or the Mission President.

Unjust Cause 1 - He was homeless, so the leaders decided they couldn't baptize him because he had no assigned ward.

Unjust Cause 2 - I gave him a home and an address, God made him a way and introduced us, and this second time he was rejected for having a pending court trial... which even by thr deceiving handbook standards, he should have still been accepted. He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.

Soon after, my wife and I were denied our Endowments, by interview with the Bishop last week. He seemed aggravated, and started with, are you guys full tithe payers... Well, I've been following the holy spirits direction with tithing the best I can, and it looks closer to the United Order, I read parts of D&C 119 to him and told him I believed I was a full tithe payer, and said that its a bit different than giving just cash.

Thr Bishop told me that I wasn't following Gods will, neither was I following the Holy Spirit, and I was coming up with revelations for the church that I had no right to receive, that I was deceived basically. So we were rejected this ordinance.

From this forum I came across this scripture, which helps us to know what to do, after being rejected from receiving ordinances that we should have received, due to leadership in the church rejecting us, sinning against us, falsely accusing us, deceiving us, and causing us in some cases to sin as an after effect. There are many more applications for this truth, this is my testimony of it.


Mark 9 Restored Scripture

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.
44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.


My own conclusion:
Therefore, verse 44, be accountable for your on decisions and follow not deceiving leadership. Verse 45, seek and ask of Heavenly Father, that he will make a way for you, and I believe he has, I may be heading to a different ward here shortly to start on that pathway.

I was led today to read this chapter to my friend, who was rejected from Baptism twice, and it helped him, and my family, very much. He was close to tossing everything out the window, I was tempted too, but we need to remember this is his church, not the church of those who have wronged us. There is still hope, and this church will soon receive its judgements and will be back in pure doctrine.


I say this in the name of Jesus Christ
Thanks for sharing your story.
I was denied a recommend by Elder Rasband before he became high and mighty. I had bought some property in the middle of nowhere and so when I moved there, the Bishop and Stake President were not dedicated disciples of satan. I was issued a recommend without any hassle. This was only a month later. In my case Rasband was on a power trip having already received his call to Q15, but not yet taken it.

There are many clues that disclose satanism. Such as mandating a mask or a shot. Once you realize that the management of your ward are full blown satanists, there is no need to listen to another word they say. They are lower than whale poop.

Not all Bishops and Stake Presidents are disciples of satan. But many are. Alert those that you can as a matter of neighborly love.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Luke »

JLHPROF wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:43 pm So to sum up, you wanted to receive ordinances from an organization but you weren't willing/able to meet the organizational requirements in order to receive them. So you decided the requirements were wrong.

Let's see how that argument works in court. Or at the judgement bar.
We don't get to set the rules or reject those established by authority figures. We don't get to become a law unto ourselves.
But the Church are clearly in the wrong, just as they are in the wrong for excommunicating polygamists. Doesn’t matter whether they have the ability to do so or not, they’re wrong. So at the judgment bar, this man will be vindicated.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Mamabear »

Priesthood given by men has earthly/men made rules. If the priesthood was given by God it wouldn’t be this way and men couldn’t dictate how and when you use it.

User avatar
Thinker
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12975
Location: The Universe - wherever that is.

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Thinker »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:23 pm...My friend was recently denied his Baptism, twice, after 2 interviews with the Sisters and/or the Mission President.

Unjust Cause 1 - He was homeless, so the leaders decided they couldn't baptize him because he had no assigned ward.

Unjust Cause 2 - I gave him a home and an address, God made him a way and introduced us, and this second time he was rejected for having a pending court trial... which even by thr deceiving handbook standards, he should have still been accepted. He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.

Soon after, my wife and I were denied our Endowments, by interview with the Bishop last week. He seemed aggravated, and started with, are you guys full tithe payers... Well, I've been following the holy spirits direction with tithing the best I can, and it looks closer to the United Order, I read parts of D&C 119 to him and told him I believed I was a full tithe payer, and said that its a bit different than giving just cash.

Thr Bishop told me that I wasn't following Gods will, neither was I following the Holy Spirit, and I was coming up with revelations for the church that I had no right to receive, that I was deceived basically. So we were rejected this ordinance…
Bummer but let it be guidance away from a morally & financially corrupt religious corporation.

All are “born of water” through their mother’s amniotic fluid. God looks on the heart, not religious paperwork.

And freemasonry rituals may have some good & truth, but they also contain evil & lies, so good riddance. Take the best (the good ideas, inspiring principles) & leave the rest.

blitzinstripes
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2294

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by blitzinstripes »

Mamabear wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:48 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:23 pm Mark 9 was shared in a post recently, about plucking out Seers, perfect timing and very helpful.

The Church follows the handbook to the T, the Missionaries "Preach my Gospel", and the leaders and members use of "Handbook 1", which are essentially devices used by Satan to transgress the word of God. Someone or a group of men, at some point in the past, thought up the idea at some point, to not follow Gods word, to not teach it in truth, and instead they devised a method of deceiving millions of people, generation after generation through both books use.

As we learn to come back to sound doctrine as a church, all things that are not canonized need to be shredded first. After that, there are some tares remaining in the canonized scripture that will need to be snuffed out.
I'm ready to publish the list of all the church falsehoods that need to be corrected, and will do so soon. From deceptive home ward requirements, tithing falsehoods, rejecting the United Order, unsound doctrine, there is so much needing to be done to restore and rebuild the church. I delight in this work and posting here will help me contribute to the restoration.

Here are the circumstances.

All deceived missionaries, mission presidents, and Bishops involved in interviewing for ordinances, follow these church instructions. Some people, to the T, they believe they are doing what is just and righteous. In his Justice, God proves the church and those in the church of right doing and wrong doing. He already knows what's ahead but to be just he allows the evidence to first collect.

My friend was recently denied his Baptism, twice, after 2 interviews with the Sisters and/or the Mission President.

Unjust Cause 1 - He was homeless, so the leaders decided they couldn't baptize him because he had no assigned ward.

Unjust Cause 2 - I gave him a home and an address, God made him a way and introduced us, and this second time he was rejected for having a pending court trial... which even by thr deceiving handbook standards, he should have still been accepted. He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.

Soon after, my wife and I were denied our Endowments, by interview with the Bishop last week. He seemed aggravated, and started with, are you guys full tithe payers... Well, I've been following the holy spirits direction with tithing the best I can, and it looks closer to the United Order, I read parts of D&C 119 to him and told him I believed I was a full tithe payer, and said that its a bit different than giving just cash.

Thr Bishop told me that I wasn't following Gods will, neither was I following the Holy Spirit, and I was coming up with revelations for the church that I had no right to receive, that I was deceived basically. So we were rejected this ordinance.

From this forum I came across this scripture, which helps us to know what to do, after being rejected from receiving ordinances that we should have received, due to leadership in the church rejecting us, sinning against us, falsely accusing us, deceiving us, and causing us in some cases to sin as an after effect. There are many more applications for this truth, this is my testimony of it.


Mark 9 Restored Scripture

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.
44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.


My own conclusion:
Therefore, verse 44, be accountable for your on decisions and follow not deceiving leadership. Verse 45, seek and ask of Heavenly Father, that he will make a way for you, and I believe he has, I may be heading to a different ward here shortly to start on that pathway.

I was led today to read this chapter to my friend, who was rejected from Baptism twice, and it helped him, and my family, very much. He was close to tossing everything out the window, I was tempted too, but we need to remember this is his church, not the church of those who have wronged us. There is still hope, and this church will soon receive its judgements and will be back in pure doctrine.


I say this in the name of Jesus Christ
Good for you to stand up for your friend.
Jesus would never deny anyone baptism because of homelessness.
What a joke. Any church that commits such a grave error should not bear the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope your friend can find someone to baptize him because frankly, he doesn’t need the church.
Having been rejected by the Pharisees, send him to see John in the wilderness. 😉

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Mamabear »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:23 pm Mark 9 was shared in a post recently, about plucking out Seers, perfect timing and very helpful.

The Church follows the handbook to the T, the Missionaries "Preach my Gospel", and the leaders and members use of "Handbook 1", which are essentially devices used by Satan to transgress the word of God. Someone or a group of men, at some point in the past, thought up the idea at some point, to not follow Gods word, to not teach it in truth, and instead they devised a method of deceiving millions of people, generation after generation through both books use.

As we learn to come back to sound doctrine as a church, all things that are not canonized need to be shredded first. After that, there are some tares remaining in the canonized scripture that will need to be snuffed out.
I'm ready to publish the list of all the church falsehoods that need to be corrected, and will do so soon. From deceptive home ward requirements, tithing falsehoods, rejecting the United Order, unsound doctrine, there is so much needing to be done to restore and rebuild the church. I delight in this work and posting here will help me contribute to the restoration.

Here are the circumstances.

All deceived missionaries, mission presidents, and Bishops involved in interviewing for ordinances, follow these church instructions. Some people, to the T, they believe they are doing what is just and righteous. In his Justice, God proves the church and those in the church of right doing and wrong doing. He already knows what's ahead but to be just he allows the evidence to first collect.

My friend was recently denied his Baptism, twice, after 2 interviews with the Sisters and/or the Mission President.

Unjust Cause 1 - He was homeless, so the leaders decided they couldn't baptize him because he had no assigned ward.

Unjust Cause 2 - I gave him a home and an address, God made him a way and introduced us, and this second time he was rejected for having a pending court trial... which even by thr deceiving handbook standards, he should have still been accepted. He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.

Soon after, my wife and I were denied our Endowments, by interview with the Bishop last week. He seemed aggravated, and started with, are you guys full tithe payers... Well, I've been following the holy spirits direction with tithing the best I can, and it looks closer to the United Order, I read parts of D&C 119 to him and told him I believed I was a full tithe payer, and said that its a bit different than giving just cash.

Thr Bishop told me that I wasn't following Gods will, neither was I following the Holy Spirit, and I was coming up with revelations for the church that I had no right to receive, that I was deceived basically. So we were rejected this ordinance.

From this forum I came across this scripture, which helps us to know what to do, after being rejected from receiving ordinances that we should have received, due to leadership in the church rejecting us, sinning against us, falsely accusing us, deceiving us, and causing us in some cases to sin as an after effect. There are many more applications for this truth, this is my testimony of it.


Mark 9 Restored Scripture

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.
41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.
43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.
44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.


My own conclusion:
Therefore, verse 44, be accountable for your on decisions and follow not deceiving leadership. Verse 45, seek and ask of Heavenly Father, that he will make a way for you, and I believe he has, I may be heading to a different ward here shortly to start on that pathway.

I was led today to read this chapter to my friend, who was rejected from Baptism twice, and it helped him, and my family, very much. He was close to tossing everything out the window, I was tempted too, but we need to remember this is his church, not the church of those who have wronged us. There is still hope, and this church will soon receive its judgements and will be back in pure doctrine.


I say this in the name of Jesus Christ
The church’s pitiful rules can stand in the way of him being baptized in their building, but he can be baptized anywhere really.
Being baptized with water is the outward ordinance. Being born of God (born again) is the most important and it is done by His Spirit.

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:13

“And I knew him; ​for​ he who sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me; Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he who baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.“
John 1:32

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.“
John 3:3

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.“ 1 John 5:1

A person can be reborn before they are baptized by water.

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” Acts 10:44-48

User avatar
darknesstolight
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3865

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by darknesstolight »

JLHPROF wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:43 pm So to sum up, you wanted to receive ordinances from an organization but you weren't willing/able to meet the organizational requirements in order to receive them. So you decided the requirements were wrong.

Let's see how that argument works in court. Or at the judgement bar.
We don't get to set the rules or reject those established by authority figures. We don't get to become a law unto ourselves.
Lying is worse.

...

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:43 pm We don't get to set the rules or reject those established by authority figures. We don't get to become a law unto ourselves.
I don't think any of us are saying we just get to write our own laws/rules/gospel. But for you to think that these "authority figures" speak for God in everything they do and say is wrong. A simple study of church history presents clear examples of how church leaders have distorted the word of God over and over and over again.

User avatar
TheChristian
captain of 100
Posts: 709

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by TheChristian »

There was a certain man whom in the spirit seen the Lord beckoning a man towards Him and then the Lord said aloud ,
"I hold no man back that comes unto Me"

A certain man was in prison awaiting sentence for his crimes, society had cast him off, he now belonged to her Majesty the Queen an unwilling guest in one of her prisons..............
He called apon Jesus in the middle of the night .......

"Jesus if you care about me and my fellow convicts please show me this night"

There was a sound like a mighty rushing wind and the Holy ghost fell apon that convict like unto what occured to the Apostles apon the day of pentecost...........
That convict now knew that Jesus of Nazerath cared for convicts and no prison wall nor set of iron bars could stop the love of Christ Jesus from bringing hope and joy and fellowship to even the most lowlyest of his errant children..........

I always thank the Lord Jesus that He is our God and our sole Judge, for only He was able and willing to die on the cross for me and all my fellow men, yes praise His name that He is Lord and no other.
For if any of we men were set up to be God we could not even live for our fellow men, let alone suffer and die for them, yet our God gave His life not just for his family and friends, but also for the indifferent and His fiercest enemies also............

Its men that judge ..........
And its Jesus that saves, for did He not say,

"I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world"

illuminating.Grace
captain of 10
Posts: 18

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by illuminating.Grace »

JLHPROF wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:43 pm So to sum up, you wanted to receive ordinances from an organization but you weren't willing/able to meet the organizational requirements in order to receive them. So you decided the requirements were wrong.

Let's see how that argument works in court. Or at the judgement bar.
We don't get to set the rules or reject those established by authority figures. We don't get to become a law unto ourselves.
I've come out of the unrestored church, almost 15 years in it. I was a leader, teacher, and pastor. I use to pull people away from the restored church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, away from missionaries. I told the new comers and myself, that what they thought was the Holy Spirit, was a demon.
And now I've repented and have received the holy spirit, the very same that I persecuted. The same holy spirit that has led me to all the truths and insights I've been led to, even to this forum.

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8240
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by creator »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:23 pmMy friend was recently denied his Baptism ... He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.
So why haven't you baptized him yet? Go find a river or something and do it.

illuminating.Grace
captain of 10
Posts: 18

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by illuminating.Grace »

creator wrote: October 19th, 2022, 3:59 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 11th, 2022, 7:23 pmMy friend was recently denied his Baptism ... He clearly displays the baptism requirements outlined in scripture.
So why haven't you baptized him yet? Go find a river or something and do it.
You're right. I'm going to go look for a swimming pool. I have been wondering if its permissible to use a bathtub, but there is something about it that doesn't seem proper.

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8240
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by creator »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 21st, 2022, 10:26 amYou're right. I'm going to go look for a swimming pool. I have been wondering if its permissible to use a bathtub, but there is something about it that doesn't seem proper.
Water is water, although for symbolic reasons I tend to prefer a river (living water). Most bathtubs might be too small though.

"Permissible" depends on the context. To be baptized into the Church, you need permission of the Bishop of the Ward, but if it's just you baptizing someone who wants to make a covenant with God (outside of the purview of the Church), there is more freedom.

illuminating.Grace
captain of 10
Posts: 18

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by illuminating.Grace »

He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6426

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by endlessQuestions »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:17 pm He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.
Claiming to have been authorized to perform salvific ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ is no trifling matter. You are quite literally playing games with your brother’s salvation.

If you have integrity you should probably let your bishop know what you’ve done and let the chips fall where they may.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

endlessismyname wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:40 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:17 pm He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.
Claiming to have been authorized to perform salvific ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ is no trifling matter. You are quite literally playing games with your brother’s salvation.

If you have integrity you should probably let your bishop know what you’ve done and let the chips fall where they may.
The covenant wasn’t between him and this man. It was between this man and God.

FoundMyEden
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1240

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by FoundMyEden »

endlessismyname wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:40 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:17 pm He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.
Claiming to have been authorized to perform salvific ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ is no trifling matter. You are quite literally playing games with your brother’s salvation.

If you have integrity you should probably let your bishop know what you’ve done and let the chips fall where they may.
Are you kidding me? My husband baptized my daughter because she would not be baptized in the church font…she said she did not want to because it was not living water. My daughter is on the autism spectrum. I prayed over telling my bishop about it or not. The Lord said it was acceptable to him. There was no need to stand before false idolatry when my daughters baptism was permitted before the Lord.

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6426

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by endlessQuestions »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:50 pm
endlessismyname wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:40 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:17 pm He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.
Claiming to have been authorized to perform salvific ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ is no trifling matter. You are quite literally playing games with your brother’s salvation.

If you have integrity you should probably let your bishop know what you’ve done and let the chips fall where they may.
The covenant wasn’t between him and this man. It was between this man and God.
But he’s (presumably) a current priesthood holder in an organization that does not endorse this behavior.

I’m not questioning his right to baptize whomever he pleases in whatever manner he pleases. But if he has integrity he needs to face the consequences of his actions in the organization he’s already made agreements with. And what’s the big deal? It’s an apostate church, right? Who want to be a part of that anyway?

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

endlessismyname wrote: October 24th, 2022, 2:04 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:50 pm
endlessismyname wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:40 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:17 pm He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.
Claiming to have been authorized to perform salvific ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ is no trifling matter. You are quite literally playing games with your brother’s salvation.

If you have integrity you should probably let your bishop know what you’ve done and let the chips fall where they may.
The covenant wasn’t between him and this man. It was between this man and God.
But he’s (presumably) a current priesthood holder in an organization that does not endorse this behavior.

I’m not questioning his right to baptize whomever he pleases in whatever manner he pleases. But if he has integrity he needs to face the consequences of his actions in the organization he’s already made agreements with. And what’s the big deal? It’s an apostate church, right? Who want to be a part of that anyway?
He baptized this man outside of this (the LDS) religion. So yeah, this man made a covenant w/ God and not w/an organzation. I highly doubt this man promised to "sustain" the LDS church president as a PSR, since these servants were denying him the privilege of covenanting w/ God.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by Luke »

endlessismyname wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:40 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:17 pm He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.
Claiming to have been authorized to perform salvific ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ is no trifling matter. You are quite literally playing games with your brother’s salvation.

If you have integrity you should probably let your bishop know what you’ve done and let the chips fall where they may.
Sorry brother, but you have no idea whether he has been authorised or not. Not sure why the first conclusion to jump to is that he isn't, though. Why do you assume that he isn't?

endlessQuestions
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6426

Re: Unrighteous Church Ordinance Interviews

Post by endlessQuestions »

Luke wrote: October 24th, 2022, 2:22 pm
endlessismyname wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 8:40 pm
illuminating.Grace wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:17 pm He has been baptized, and I feel the holy spirit. I ended up using a large pool from Facebook, where we could both stand and he could be immersed. He's been going through 6 months of classes with the missionaries, attending church, showing true repentance and believes in Jesus, he was denied twice, he endured, and the day has finally come.

The holy spirit by the laying on of hands is next.
Claiming to have been authorized to perform salvific ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ is no trifling matter. You are quite literally playing games with your brother’s salvation.

If you have integrity you should probably let your bishop know what you’ve done and let the chips fall where they may.
Sorry brother, but you have no idea whether he has been authorised or not. Not sure why the first conclusion to jump to is that he isn't, though. Why do you assume that he isn't?
Unless I completely misread the thread, didn’t he say the person was told he/she could not be baptized by the institutional church multiple times? Am I crossing wires here? If so I sincerely apologize.

Post Reply