Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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LDS Watchman
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by LDS Watchman »

Fred wrote: October 8th, 2022, 1:00 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 12:51 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 12:00 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 11:38 am

Then why doesn't the Book of Mormon, the most correct book on earth, tell us all about her?
The BoM has many truths, but it's not a complete record of all things.
Agreed, but you would think that if God wanted the world to know all about our Heavenly Mother the Book of Mormon would at least have a few clear references to her.
God loves his wife. See the world take His name in vain and blaspheme. Why introduce your wife to such ridicule? He can tolerate you talking crap about Him. If you talk crap about his wife, he might change your skin color.
I completely agree with you.

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abijah
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singularity vs multiplicity

Post by abijah »

In reality the scriptures go on and on about God's queen consort.

the only thing is, it's always in reference to His own, consecrated, covenant people as a collective unit as being his wife (vast majority of the time as a highly unfaithful one)

"but abijah, surely that's just a metaphor, a figure of speech", idk im not so sure about just assuming that off the bat. it's like i said in my superidentities thread -
abijah` wrote: November 29th, 2021, 12:30 pmI think we will experience full Marriage, on MULTIPLE levels, as in, we will have our own spouses, whilst simultaneously experiencing what it means to be married, as a corporate, covenant-bound community, to.... Christ.

we will have our spouse... and We will have our Spouse.

As I said before, it all stacks.
just because the concept can be broken down to a dichotomy -- between one singularity of a lone, distinct goddess, vs a multiplicity of distinct entities/personalities come together into a composite whole.-- doesnt mean they both are not true. ¿por que no los dos? ;)
  • Revelation 21
    And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Last edited by abijah on October 8th, 2022, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

illuminating.Grace wrote: October 7th, 2022, 8:15 pm for the last 6 months Ive been working on combining all scriptures together
Sounds like a similar project the blogger "Measuring Doctrine" has finished. He offers it for free on his website.

Welcome!

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Robin Hood
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Robin Hood »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 11:16 am
Robin Hood wrote: October 8th, 2022, 10:40 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 8:07 am
Mamabear wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:01 am I agree. Tired of hearing about heavenly mother.
I'm a bit shocked you said that. You're "tired" of wanting to know more about our Mother who created you, who has been set aside as nothing from almost the beginning? People are wanting to know more about Her and you're "tired" of hearing about Her? She's a God in all glory and respect for the word God, but I'm still sure it tugs at Her heart when people don't want to know Her.
The Mother has been hidden from us from the very beginning of mortality for a reason. The Father has his reasons for this and I am content with that.
Men hid Her, not Father, not Christ. The only way she has been hidden is through corruption or disbelief.
Did Joseph hide her?

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 8:07 am You're "tired" of wanting to know more about our Mother who created you, who has been set aside as nothing from almost the beginning? People are wanting to know more about Her and you're "tired" of hearing about Her? She's a God in all glory and respect for the word God, but I'm still sure it tugs at Her heart when people don't want to know Her.
Wow, did your inner Brighamite resurface or what! Lol.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

Fred wrote: October 8th, 2022, 1:00 pm God loves his wife.
What wife? Where's the scriptural foundation for such a claim?

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Robin Hood wrote: October 8th, 2022, 3:08 pm
Did Joseph hide her?
No. But men throughout the ages have made very clear attempts at erasing the divine feminine from open discourse.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

Robin Hood wrote: October 8th, 2022, 12:20 am what's wrong with the Proclamation on the Family?
Eternal Families. This is a non-scriptural concept.
Pre-mortal gender also has no justification in scripture.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 3:10 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 8:07 am You're "tired" of wanting to know more about our Mother who created you, who has been set aside as nothing from almost the beginning? People are wanting to know more about Her and you're "tired" of hearing about Her? She's a God in all glory and respect for the word God, but I'm still sure it tugs at Her heart when people don't want to know Her.
Wow, did your inner Brighamite resurface or what! Lol.
Is God masculine/male? If so, is there an equal divine feminine? Did God create by Himself?

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Fred
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Fred »

Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:00 pm
Fred wrote: October 8th, 2022, 1:00 pm God loves his wife.
What wife? Where's the scriptural foundation for such a claim?
I'll have to read the book of Fred and see if I can find the reference. Are you suggesting that God is a loner?

The saying that as man is, God once was, suggests a standard human progression. This would include marriage, from which he had one begotten. Did they divorce?

My guess is that He kept her.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:06 pm Is God masculine/male?
Since he speaks to us in our language according to our understanding, what choices does our understanding give him? He had to pick he or she, right? We, as people, would only accept a male authority figure. There's no reason God can't possess a fulness of all male and female attributes.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:45 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:06 pm Is God masculine/male?
Since he speaks to us in our language according to our understanding, what choices does our understanding give him? He had to pick he or she, right? We, as people, would only accept a male authority figure. There's no reason God can't possess a fulness of all male and female attributes.
So this begs the question, can we become Gods? If so, is gender relevant or irrelevant in this life?

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

Fred wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:07 pm The saying that as man is, God once was, suggests a standard human progression. This would include marriage, from which he had one begotten. Did they divorce?
Marriage is an earthly concept in scripture. In the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage. There's no sign of marriage in heaven. We can't say "begotten" means carnal intercourse. Of course, we connect and have relationships, but I'm sure there's a better way to connect than pumping someone full of seed.

I'm not saying there is no marriage in heaven, I'm just saying the scriptures seem to hint at no marriage. Just letting the text speak for itself.

Now, if you're maintaining we progress to Godhood, that would take a person more than a thousand lifetimes and several thousand marriages.

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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:52 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:45 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:06 pm Is God masculine/male?
Since he speaks to us in our language according to our understanding, what choices does our understanding give him? He had to pick he or she, right? We, as people, would only accept a male authority figure. There's no reason God can't possess a fulness of all male and female attributes.
So this begs the question, can we become Gods? If so, is gender relevant or irrelevant in this life?
Well, if gender is irrelevant in this life, wouldn't that make same-sex marriage a perfectly acceptable practice?

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Fred
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Fred »

Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:59 pm
Fred wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:07 pm The saying that as man is, God once was, suggests a standard human progression. This would include marriage, from which he had one begotten. Did they divorce?
Marriage is an earthly concept in scripture. In the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage. There's no sign of marriage in heaven. We can't say "begotten" means carnal intercourse. Of course, we connect and have relationships, but I'm sure there's a better way to connect than pumping someone full of seed.

I'm not saying there is no marriage in heaven, I'm just saying the scriptures seem to hint at no marriage. Just letting the text speak for itself.

Now, if you're maintaining we progress to Godhood, that would take a person more than a thousand lifetimes and several thousand marriages.
Well, if you think a thousand lifetimes is too long, my understanding of Eternity is that there is no shortage of time.

If there is no marriage in heaven, then what is the purpose of a temple marriage?

I'll have to think about your definition or lack thereof of begotten. Right off the bat it pegs my truth meter at nope.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:52 pm So this begs the question, can we become Gods? If so, is gender relevant or irrelevant in this life?
The Pearl of Great Price seems to show that all intelligences can continue to become more intelligent, without any cap or limit being hinted at. Gender is helpful in learning particular life lessons and attributes, but why would an intelligence only want to develop one set of attributes or only learn one side of humanity? How does God succor us all without having experienced it all?

Interesting side note, there is also no hint of a division in species in the hierarchy of intelligences (another topic though).

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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:59 pm
Fred wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:07 pm The saying that as man is, God once was, suggests a standard human progression. This would include marriage, from which he had one begotten. Did they divorce?
Marriage is an earthly concept in scripture. In the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage. There's no sign of marriage in heaven. We can't say "begotten" means carnal intercourse. Of course, we connect and have relationships, but I'm sure there's a better way to connect than pumping someone full of seed.

I'm not saying there is no marriage in heaven, I'm just saying the scriptures seem to hint at no marriage. Just letting the text speak for itself.

Now, if you're maintaining we progress to Godhood, that would take a person more than a thousand lifetimes and several thousand marriages.
Shawn, we usually have the same views on things. So, I wanted to get to the bottom of the philosophy you are putting forth. As far as I can tell it hinges on this verse in Doctrine and Covenants 132:

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

Will you please point to any other verse that will attest to the truthfulness of this verse?

Section 132 was not published when Joseph was alive. It is of dubious origin, and contains the doctrine of polygamy. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you do not believe that was inspired of God. If that is true, why do you hold to a different verse, in that same section, as gospel?

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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Fred wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:06 pm what is the purpose of a temple marriage?
It's not in scripture, so I can't answer that. My opinion is that it is a false concept introduced to be a carrot on the stick of polygamy. The whole sealing concept was an enticement to get members to accept polygamy.

I'm ready to do however many lifetimes I have to in order to rid myself of any deficiencies. As far as the definition of 'begotten' goes, we'll have to agree to default on our mutual foundation of how scripture uses the term.

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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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LDS Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:01 pm
Well, if gender is irrelevant in this life, wouldn't that make same-sex marriage a perfectly acceptable practice?
That is the exact reasoning my friend in the Eoiscopal church used too accept gay and lesbian lifestyles. According to him, God is both genders in one essence.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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Kit-OTW wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:18 pm Shawn, we usually have the same views on things. So, I wanted to get to the bottom of the philosophy you are putting forth. As far as I can tell it hinges on this verse in Doctrine and Covenants 132:

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

Will you please point to any other verse that will attest to the truthfulness of this verse?

Section 132 was not published when Joseph was alive. It is of dubious origin, and contains the doctrine of polygamy. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you do not believe that was inspired of God. If that is true, why do you hold to a different verse, in that same section, as gospel?
It's actually from the Bible. Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage"...

This is when Jesus is asked about the women who had seven husbands because they all died. He was asked which one she would be with, in the resurrection, and the Savior answered that there would be no marriage.

Yeah, 132 is bunk. :D

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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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If temple marriage was necessary, why wasn’t it taught in the Bible or the Book of Mormon?

Being sealed to Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit of promise is the true doctrine. Being sealed to another person is not.
This was the ordinance that was changed that was prophesied in Isaiah. Being sealed to the Lord versus being sealed to man.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:01 pm Well, if gender is irrelevant in this life, wouldn't that make same-sex marriage a perfectly acceptable practice?
God's command for us still stands. Only he can modify it, so unless we have another revelation on the subject, we are tied to his last word on the subject, which is the Article on Marriage canonized in 1835.

I'm sure one can find a "Joseph said" quote to countermand scripture though right. Lol.

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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Joan7 »

Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:31 pm
Kit-OTW wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:18 pm Shawn, we usually have the same views on things. So, I wanted to get to the bottom of the philosophy you are putting forth. As far as I can tell it hinges on this verse in Doctrine and Covenants 132:

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

Will you please point to any other verse that will attest to the truthfulness of this verse?

Section 132 was not published when Joseph was alive. It is of dubious origin, and contains the doctrine of polygamy. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you do not believe that was inspired of God. If that is true, why do you hold to a different verse, in that same section, as gospel?
It's actually from the Bible. Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage"...

This is when Jesus is asked about the women who had seven husbands because they all died. He was asked which one she would be with, in the resurrection, and the Savior answered that there would be no marriage.

Yeah, 132 is bunk. :D
Thanks for the reference. Given everything we know from the scriptures about God's plan for His children, it doesn't make sense that there would not be couples, who together create children, and places for them to live. To me, that means marriage. He ordained it for Adam and Eve. And, I do not think that law is withdrawn in the eternities.

The question then becomes, what did Jesus mean when He said, "For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage...?"
It feels like He is restricting that by the time period of the resurrection. For the righteous, that period would extend from the time He was resurrected in 33 AD, to the morning of the First Resurrection. During that time, all those who had been resurrected during that time, would be angels in heaven. After that time, they would be living as families, and having children during the Millennium. It will be a new pre-existance, with the Servant, or the "rod of iron" from Revelation 12, as the new Christ.

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John Tavner
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

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LDS Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:01 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:52 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:45 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 8th, 2022, 6:06 pm Is God masculine/male?
Since he speaks to us in our language according to our understanding, what choices does our understanding give him? He had to pick he or she, right? We, as people, would only accept a male authority figure. There's no reason God can't possess a fulness of all male and female attributes.
So this begs the question, can we become Gods? If so, is gender relevant or irrelevant in this life?
cop

Well, if gender is irrelevant in this life, wouldn't that make same-sex marriage a perfectly acceptable practice?
No, because God is about creating life. . Same-sex copulation does not and can not produce life= therefore it is not of God.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Hello, I was led to this site by the Holy Spirit

Post by Shawn Henry »

Kit-OTW wrote: October 8th, 2022, 7:53 pm Thanks for the reference. Given everything we know from the scriptures about God's plan for His children, it doesn't make sense that there would not be couples, who together create children, and places for them to live. To me, that means marriage. He ordained it for Adam and Eve. And, I do not think that law is withdrawn in the eternities.

The question then becomes, what did Jesus mean when He said, "For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage...?"
It feels like He is restricting that by the time period of the resurrection. For the righteous, that period would extend from the time He was resurrected in 33 AD, to the morning of the First Resurrection. During that time, all those who had been resurrected during that time, would be angels in heaven. After that time, they would be living as families, and having children during the Millennium. It will be a new pre-existance, with the Servant, or the "rod of iron" from Revelation 12, as the new Christ.
Being a couple is the only thing we know so naturally it is hard to think outside that box. The earthly union of a man and woman is to bear physical children, but there is no birthing process in heaven. We can't give birth to spirit children because these are intelligent beings than have existed for eons of time. They are without beginning and without end and as intelligences they have likely already experienced mortality numerous times.

The resurrection continues all throughout the Millenium until all the telestial are resurrected. This would mean no marriage throughout the entire Millenium, but I don't profess to know what the Savior meant by that comment. I know he has said that the Man and Woman become one as he is one with the Father so that would preclude sexual relations. I think we all become one with each other and with the Father in that we all resonant at the same frequency, like a shared hive-mind maybe, like we are all connected to a vast eternal intelligence network and all experience joy together. That's just my personal interpretation of becoming one though.

I'll have to read revelation 12 to see what you are referring to by "the new Christ".

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