LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

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HereWeGo
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by HereWeGo »

Que the "All Church, All Defense, All the Time," players. We'll hear from them shortly.

nvr
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by nvr »

As suggested in mind virus podcast, I’m changing my pronouns to I/me/my. visualize the impossibility of making any sense talking about me.

FoundMyEden
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by FoundMyEden »

Niemand wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:50 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:32 pm What if my pronouns are F*ck/You?

It's there a pre approved list I have to choose from?
My preferred pronoun is "never heard of him" if a debt collector turns up.
Yes, and then you can just identify as Ima Freeloader and Debt Be Free. 😂

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MikeMaillet
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by MikeMaillet »

tribrac wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:02 pm Transgenderism is probably a result of the world rejecting polygamy.

Everyone knows women are better followers of Christ, it must have been the same in the preexistince. Far more women spirits followed the Savior, more men spirits followed Satan. That's why they are 'sons' of perdition.

Now we are in the last days, so many worthy female spirits are waiting to be sent to earth to get a body. The noblest, most spiritual women volunteer to be housed in bodies of men so they can help other women become mothers. It is truly the biggest act of Charity ever.

Sadly, a few of those noble women didn't know just how hard it would be, and their true nature shines through the ugly man skin they agreed to take on.
I keep hearing this about women being more Christ-like than men... Was it not Eve (which is many) that first partook of the fruit?

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

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Niemand
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Niemand »

MikeMaillet wrote: October 5th, 2022, 6:52 am
tribrac wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:02 pm Transgenderism is probably a result of the world rejecting polygamy.

Everyone knows women are better followers of Christ, it must have been the same in the preexistince. Far more women spirits followed the Savior, more men spirits followed Satan. That's why they are 'sons' of perdition.

Now we are in the last days, so many worthy female spirits are waiting to be sent to earth to get a body. The noblest, most spiritual women volunteer to be housed in bodies of men so they can help other women become mothers. It is truly the biggest act of Charity ever.

Sadly, a few of those noble women didn't know just how hard it would be, and their true nature shines through the ugly man skin they agreed to take on.
I keep hearing this about women being more Christ-like than men... Was it not Eve (which is many) that first partook of the fruit?

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario
I think Eve has been unfairly represented by many Christians in the past, but now we are overcompensating.

Eve was "beguiled" by the Serpent. She made a mistake as I understand it, but it was not malicious. In traditional LDS theology, we learn that this had to be, so that absolves both her and Adam too.

Eve is clearly one of the greatest people who ever lived, and she was chosen for that role in pre-existence.

Women are not "more Christlike" in general since they have a variety of moral stances due to free will. All of us have known both great women and evil women. They do play a mainly positive role in the New Testament despite it being focussed mainly on men. Yes, there are the Salomes and Whores of Babylon, but we also encounter the likes of Mary and Mary Magdalene etc, and they witness the risen Christ. Even Pilate's wife tried to speak up for Jesus.

IcedKoffee
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by IcedKoffee »

Now that that the church is being more accepting of transgender’s I wonder if they would ever allow a trans man/woman to marry in the temple?

If a man who identifies as a woman marries a woman in the temple would that be a gay marriage?

Sounds like a very slippery slope that could easily be exploited down the road.

LDS Watchman
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by LDS Watchman »

Serragon wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:36 pm
Down_the_rabbithole wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:23 pm From the church manual:

“If a member decides to change his or her preferred name or pronouns of address, the name preference may be noted in the preferred name field on the membership record. The person may be addressed by the preferred name in the ward” (“Transgender Individuals,” General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 38.6.21).

“The Church does not take a position on the causes of people identifying themselves as transgender” (General Handbook, 38.6.21).

So how long until a progressive bishop goes by She/Her and wants to be called Bishop Sally? It also leaves so much out. What if a child tells a "sympathetic" YM/YW teacher/Leader their pronouns, but wants it kept secret from their parents? 😳 They also lump it in with a name change. No deliniation. Very vague language.

Anybody see any problems with this? Has this already happened? Seems like a big foot in the door.
The fruit of elevating "Love they Neighbor" above "Love God".

We are seeing this everywhere in our church. Faith is diminishing. Self-indulgence running amok. Removing all standards so they don't make the anyone feel uncomfortable.

Does this tool we call the church actually have the ability to create a Zion people, or has it actually become an impediment to the majority?

I feel that the church and its members used to be a small but solid block where people were engaged, knew the doctrine of Christ, had standards, and generally tried to improve. But I feel now that the church and its members are a large but extremely thin sheet of paper where we are divided, constantly fracturing, and where almost nothing is expected.
I have made a similar observation. But who is to blame for this? Is it the leaders, the members, or both?

People are leaving the church in droves right now. I think the leaders are desperately trying to keep the members with shallow testimonies from leaving the church by softening things up, while hoping that the stronger more faithful members will be led by the Spirit to continue to maintain the highest standards. But this is a very slippery slope. We're seeing the effects of this and they aren't good.

I'm really concerned about the new Strength of Youth pamphlet and the softened language. I fear that we're going to see a huge surge in immodesty, tattoos, same-sex attraction, and general worldliness.

I would rather the church hold the line and not budge an inch and let the snowflakes leave if they can't handle it. But I also recognize that the church is full of tares and that the wheat and the tares are to remain together until God separates them. So I can see why the brethren are trying to keep as many people from leaving the church as possible.

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Jamescm
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Jamescm »

tribrac wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:02 pm Transgenderism is probably a result of the world rejecting polygamy.

Everyone knows women are better followers of Christ, it must have been the same in the preexistince. Far more women spirits followed the Savior, more men spirits followed Satan. That's why they are 'sons' of perdition.

Now we are in the last days, so many worthy female spirits are waiting to be sent to earth to get a body. The noblest, most spiritual women volunteer to be housed in bodies of men so they can help other women become mothers. It is truly the biggest act of Charity ever.

Sadly, a few of those noble women didn't know just how hard it would be, and their true nature shines through the ugly man skin they agreed to take on.
I would sooner be convinced that #birdsarentreal.

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The Red Pill
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by The Red Pill »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 5th, 2022, 7:43 am
Serragon wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:36 pm
Down_the_rabbithole wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:23 pm From the church manual:

“If a member decides to change his or her preferred name or pronouns of address, the name preference may be noted in the preferred name field on the membership record. The person may be addressed by the preferred name in the ward” (“Transgender Individuals,” General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 38.6.21).

“The Church does not take a position on the causes of people identifying themselves as transgender” (General Handbook, 38.6.21).

So how long until a progressive bishop goes by She/Her and wants to be called Bishop Sally? It also leaves so much out. What if a child tells a "sympathetic" YM/YW teacher/Leader their pronouns, but wants it kept secret from their parents? 😳 They also lump it in with a name change. No deliniation. Very vague language.

Anybody see any problems with this? Has this already happened? Seems like a big foot in the door.
The fruit of elevating "Love they Neighbor" above "Love God".

We are seeing this everywhere in our church. Faith is diminishing. Self-indulgence running amok. Removing all standards so they don't make the anyone feel uncomfortable.

Does this tool we call the church actually have the ability to create a Zion people, or has it actually become an impediment to the majority?

I feel that the church and its members used to be a small but solid block where people were engaged, knew the doctrine of Christ, had standards, and generally tried to improve. But I feel now that the church and its members are a large but extremely thin sheet of paper where we are divided, constantly fracturing, and where almost nothing is expected.
I have made a similar observation. But who is to blame for this? Is it the leaders, the members, or both?

People are leaving the church in droves right now. I think the leaders are desperately trying to keep the members with shallow testimonies from leaving the church by softening things up, while hoping that the stronger more faithful members will be led by the Spirit to continue to maintain the highest standards. But this is a very slippery slope. We're seeing the effects of this and they aren't good.

I'm really concerned about the new Strength of Youth pamphlet and the softened language. I fear that we're going to see a huge surge in immodesty, tattoos, same-sex attraction, and general worldliness.

I would rather the church hold the line and not budge an inch and let the snowflakes leave if they can't handle it. But I also recognize that the church is full of tares and that the wheat and the tares are to remain together until God separates them. So I can see why the brethren are trying to keep as many people from leaving the church as possible.
Your fears are well justified. My 22 year old son and wife paid us a visit last night. They are very involved in social media. They informed us that the youth are literally lining up at the tattoo parlors, body piercing joints...

They feel they have been given the green light for...if it feels good, do it...a once considered counterculture philosophy the church frowned upon.

Yet another crappy decision, in a rather long list of crappy decisions, Q15 has made lately.

Brigham had his "new order of things"...RMN now has his.

FoundMyEden
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by FoundMyEden »

IcedKoffee wrote: October 5th, 2022, 7:17 am Now that that the church is being more accepting of transgender’s I wonder if they would ever allow a trans man/woman to marry in the temple?

If a man who identifies as a woman marries a woman in the temple would that be a gay marriage?

Sounds like a very slippery slope that could easily be exploited down the road.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this has already happened.

Lizzy60
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Lizzy60 »

FoundMyEden wrote: October 5th, 2022, 5:20 pm
IcedKoffee wrote: October 5th, 2022, 7:17 am Now that that the church is being more accepting of transgender’s I wonder if they would ever allow a trans man/woman to marry in the temple?

If a man who identifies as a woman marries a woman in the temple would that be a gay marriage?

Sounds like a very slippery slope that could easily be exploited down the road.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this has already happened.
About a year ago an engaged couple in Utah tried to sneak it through. One of the couple was a young woman and the other was a young man who was transitioning to a woman. They told their story on Mormons Building Bridges. Their plan was to be married in the temple before the young man switched over to living as a woman full-time. Currently he was dressing as a woman when he could, and using a woman’s name among his friends, but posing as a normal man when at church or around church folk.

They wanted a temple wedding for their parents and because of church culture, but word got out of his cross-dressing and plans to fully adopt a woman’s identity, and their temple marriage appointment was canceled.

No doubt others more careful than these two have already been married in the temple with plans to transition afterward.

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Niemand
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

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BroJones
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

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h_p wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:12 pm "Pronouns of address?" Who addresses people with a pronoun?? Pronouns are 3rd person, so you use them when talking *about* someone, not *to* them.

That seems to be the old definition of pronouns, not as used in woke society.
But yes, I'm still trying to understand...

What if I choose "mighty and strong" as my pronoun of address? Would that go on the church record for me?

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

BroJones wrote: October 6th, 2022, 5:50 pm
h_p wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:12 pm "Pronouns of address?" Who addresses people with a pronoun?? Pronouns are 3rd person, so you use them when talking *about* someone, not *to* them.

That seems to be the old definition of pronouns, not as used in woke society.
But yes, I'm still trying to understand...

What if I choose "mighty and strong" as my pronoun of address? Would that go on the church record for me?
:lol: :lol: That's brilliant, I hope you try it!!

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Fred
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Fred »

Jules wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:26 pm
Mamabear wrote: October 4th, 2022, 6:08 pm
Jules wrote: October 4th, 2022, 6:05 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:35 pm Guys... We are witnessing the church implementing one of the major pillars of Agenda 2030. I tried to warn you. This is only the beginning.
I've tried to tell people this part of it.. this is a very convoluted LONG CON - they are already WAY ahead of us.
This is probably the last crowd on Earth who is going to investigate #EGI Elite Gender Inversion.
ALLLLLL the elites are in on the "gender neutralizing agenda", and are inverted - NOT the biological genders they pretend to be.
So Russell had said sex change like in the 50s?
Not necessarily - they do it all kinds of ways; pre-conception, in-utero (they deliberately create hermaphroditism), pre-puberty, trans surgery, and he could just be an old lady in king-drag.
While it is quite likely that his wife Wendy is a lesbian, Russell probably forgave her. Many people have characteristics of the opposite sex. Like a man that has a pretty face or a masculine looking woman. This does not mean they are bisexual or hermaphroditic. And they probably did not have a sex change procedure, either. One shoots a bunch of genes at a group of eggs and it is a crap shoot. It's anybody's guess which ones pair off. Some people simply end up looking a little more effeminate or masculine than others.

I'm not saying Dr. Nelson did not alter his genes somehow. He was likely groomed by satan since birth for his present position. But I would consider it a probability more than an actual event.

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Jamescm
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Jamescm »

I can't say that I'd ever refer to someone's Church account to see what pronouns he or she wants to be addressed by.

For the temple? If you have to be sneaky about getting a sealing in a temple as a same-sex pairing, why would you? If you have to be sneaky, it means you're trying to fool God. Everyone knows you can't fool God. Either He exists and will annihilate you sooner or later for trying, or He doesn't and you're just being a disrespectful piece of trash. There is nothing positive to be gained at all by the process, making it clear that it is a devilish and unworthy goal.

Serragon
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Serragon »

Jamescm wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 12:19 pm I can't say that I'd ever refer to someone's Church account to see what pronouns he or she wants to be addressed by.

For the temple? If you have to be sneaky about getting a sealing in a temple as a same-sex pairing, why would you? If you have to be sneaky, it means you're trying to fool God. Everyone knows you can't fool God. Either He exists and will annihilate you sooner or later for trying, or He doesn't and you're just being a disrespectful piece of trash. There is nothing positive to be gained at all by the process, making it clear that it is a devilish and unworthy goal.
When you update the "Prefered name" column, it appears on all reports and lists instead of the real name. This has been part of LCR for a long time and was intended to be used to store the name they normally go by. Examples of this might be people who go by their middle name instead of their first name or using Bob instead of Robert.

So the net effect of this would be that everyone would see these pronouns in Tools or on any membership lists/reports.

endlessismyname
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by endlessismyname »

What I’m more interested in is what the policy is going to be regarding those of us who won’t engage in the deception….

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jamescm wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 12:19 pm I can't say that I'd ever refer to someone's Church account to see what pronouns he or she wants to be addressed by.

For the temple? If you have to be sneaky about getting a sealing in a temple as a same-sex pairing, why would you? If you have to be sneaky, it means you're trying to fool God. Everyone knows you can't fool God. Either He exists and will annihilate you sooner or later for trying, or He doesn't and you're just being a disrespectful piece of trash. There is nothing positive to be gained at all by the process, making it clear that it is a devilish and unworthy goal.


To them, it's about rubbing our noses in it. It's about making a mockery of God.

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LDS Physician
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by LDS Physician »

4Joshua8 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:26 pm To knowingly use a person's preferred pronouns when the pronouns run contrary to their biological sex is to speak a lie, rejects true doctrine, and is to participate with them in their delusion.
It would be equivalent to agreeing with an anorexic woman that she is indeed too fat and that she should consider gastric bypass and radical diets

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LDS Physician
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by LDS Physician »

BroJones wrote: October 6th, 2022, 5:50 pm
h_p wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:12 pm "Pronouns of address?" Who addresses people with a pronoun?? Pronouns are 3rd person, so you use them when talking *about* someone, not *to* them.

That seems to be the old definition of pronouns, not as used in woke society.
But yes, I'm still trying to understand...

What if I choose "mighty and strong" as my pronoun of address? Would that go on the church record for me?
I'd call you that if you want!

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Niemand
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Niemand »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:32 pm What if my pronouns are F*ck/You?
Is that with or without the preferred asterisk?

Ciams
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by Ciams »

Luke wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:42 pm This is literally impossible for TBMs to deny. Prepare for the gaslighting in the form of “the Church never taught that using preferred pronouns was wrong”.
Here you go:
Some nations have legislation that makes it a hate crime to refuse to do such. The church is required to follow the law.

Have you ever considered that someone could change their name to JosephSmithisALiar and ask that that name be updated on their record? Or maybe someone named Gay could change their last name to Sex.

The church would update their roles accordingly.

Outrageous things can happen when you have to run your global organization with a database in a legalistic society.

The 12 and FP clearly don't want this, but we can also see where hands are being tied by the secret combinations that steer government.

Do you want the church to stand up and say, "today we go no further" and call out the secret combinations to satisfy your need for contention?

I hate to break it to you guys, but church action is guided by this principle, "as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him".

The Lord is allowing this world to ripen in iniquity. We are being inflicted by an oppressive society and God is not stopping it.

I can defend the church if it stood and said no more. But I can also defend the church who submits to these oppressions. Society is not worthy of the law, because society has rejected the law. Even true for too many in the church.

I'm saddened by it, but I'm not angry with the church over it.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Ciams wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 7:20 am
Luke wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:42 pm This is literally impossible for TBMs to deny. Prepare for the gaslighting in the form of “the Church never taught that using preferred pronouns was wrong”.
Here you go:
Some nations have legislation that makes it a hate crime to refuse to do such. The church is required to follow the law.

Have you ever considered that someone could change their name to JosephSmithisALiar and ask that that name be updated on their record? Or maybe someone named Gay could change their last name to Sex.

The church would update their roles accordingly.

Outrageous things can happen when you have to run your global organization with a database in a legalistic society.

The 12 and FP clearly don't want this, but we can also see where hands are being tied by the secret combinations that steer government.

Do you want the church to stand up and say, "today we go no further" and call out the secret combinations to satisfy your need for contention?

I hate to break it to you guys, but church action is guided by this principle, "as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him".

The Lord is allowing this world to ripen in iniquity. We are being inflicted by an oppressive society and God is not stopping it.

I can defend the church if it stood and said no more. But I can also defend the church who submits to these oppressions. Society is not worthy of the law, because society has rejected the law. Even true for too many in the church.

I'm saddened by it, but I'm not angry with the church over it.
So the Lord will give us a whole bunch of wiggle room to participate in these abominations because "it's the law" ?

No, I don't think so. We're supposed to be persecuted.


Tell me, what's the line for you? Is there one?

endlessismyname
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Re: LDS use of pronouns (very slippery slope)

Post by endlessismyname »

LDS Physician wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 9:08 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 5:26 pm To knowingly use a person's preferred pronouns when the pronouns run contrary to their biological sex is to speak a lie, rejects true doctrine, and is to participate with them in their delusion.
It would be equivalent to agreeing with an anorexic woman that she is indeed too fat and that she should consider gastric bypass and radical diets
Yeah, I’m stealing that.

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