Wear a cross?

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Fred
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Wear a cross?

Post by Fred »

My brother served a mission in England and told me that the reason LDS do not use crosses is that it was a murder weapon. For instance, if your spouse was murdered by a seatbelt, being strapped to a door when someone ran a light and they may have not even received a scratch except that a cop was willing to ticket them or worse if they did not agree to be killed. The seatbelt being the murder weapon, would you wear one around your neck? To a cop, the seatbelt represents a method of oppression or control. He would rather you were dead than have the opportunity to choose to belt or not.

Elder Holland wants people to be killed by seatbelts as he suggests following authority explicitly. However, he does not feel the same way about crosses.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... dX6MlsAQAA

From the reddit post:
Jeff Holland is one of 15 men who believes he was called directly from Jesus to be an apostle today. He believes he tells the church what is most important "for our day." So in a time where there is famine, drought, wars, pandemics, poverty, political and social unrest, etc.--he prayed to know what Jesus wanted him to tell the church members (and the world, since they view themselves as prophets, seers, and revelators to the world, not just the Mormon church). And what did Jesus tell him was the most important thing Mormons needed to know for the next 6 months? STOP WEARING CROSS JEWELRY!!!!!!

Brigham Young's wives and daughters wore crosses. In 1916, the LDS church filed a permit with SLC to build a giant concrete cross on Enisgn Peak (it was obviously never built, but was replaced by the This is the Place monument in 1917, that's shaped like a cross). In the 1923 general conference it was announced the Hawaii and Alberta, Canada temples were designed around the shape of the cross. The LDS church cattle brand used to have a cross on it. Mormons actually wore and displayed the cross like other Christians until the 1960s.

So why don't Mormon's really wear the cross? It's because David O. McKay served as a European Mission President in the 1920s and developed personal prejudices against the Catholic church. In 1957, he decided he didn't like local department stores advertising cross jewelry because it reminded him of Catholics. Based on his anti-Catholic prejudices, he asked stores to stop advertising because he didn't want people confusing Mormons with Catholics. Also, Mormons completely misunderstand how Christians view the cross--it has nothing to do with a "dying Christ" but Mormons sure like to repeat that lie. It's easier to repeat platitudes than educating themselves on Christianity (and why many Christians don't view Mormons as fully Christian).
So, what does the cross mean to you?

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Subcomandante
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Subcomandante »

Fred wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 2:54 am My brother served a mission in England and told me that the reason LDS do not use crosses is that it was a murder weapon. For instance, if your spouse was murdered by a seatbelt, being strapped to a door when someone ran a light and they may have not even received a scratch except that a cop was willing to ticket them or worse if they did not agree to be killed. The seatbelt being the murder weapon, would you wear one around your neck? To a cop, the seatbelt represents a method of oppression or control. He would rather you were dead than have the opportunity to choose to belt or not.

Elder Holland wants people to be killed by seatbelts as he suggests following authority explicitly. However, he does not feel the same way about crosses.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... dX6MlsAQAA

From the reddit post:
Jeff Holland is one of 15 men who believes he was called directly from Jesus to be an apostle today. He believes he tells the church what is most important "for our day." So in a time where there is famine, drought, wars, pandemics, poverty, political and social unrest, etc.--he prayed to know what Jesus wanted him to tell the church members (and the world, since they view themselves as prophets, seers, and revelators to the world, not just the Mormon church). And what did Jesus tell him was the most important thing Mormons needed to know for the next 6 months? STOP WEARING CROSS JEWELRY!!!!!!

Brigham Young's wives and daughters wore crosses. In 1916, the LDS church filed a permit with SLC to build a giant concrete cross on Enisgn Peak (it was obviously never built, but was replaced by the This is the Place monument in 1917, that's shaped like a cross). In the 1923 general conference it was announced the Hawaii and Alberta, Canada temples were designed around the shape of the cross. The LDS church cattle brand used to have a cross on it. Mormons actually wore and displayed the cross like other Christians until the 1960s.

So why don't Mormon's really wear the cross? It's because David O. McKay served as a European Mission President in the 1920s and developed personal prejudices against the Catholic church. In 1957, he decided he didn't like local department stores advertising cross jewelry because it reminded him of Catholics. Based on his anti-Catholic prejudices, he asked stores to stop advertising because he didn't want people confusing Mormons with Catholics. Also, Mormons completely misunderstand how Christians view the cross--it has nothing to do with a "dying Christ" but Mormons sure like to repeat that lie. It's easier to repeat platitudes than educating themselves on Christianity (and why many Christians don't view Mormons as fully Christian).
So, what does the cross mean to you?
The cross is a symbol of Jesus' sacrifice for all of us. However, since Christ is Risen, it makes more sense to use the current symbol of the Church.

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Valheim
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Valheim »

Your scenario feels like a stretch. Seatbelts raise safety more or less always.

We dont typically use crosses, but its not bad to do so. Its just not part of what we do. We have other symbols.

I have a tiny one on my backpack, but I dont identify so much with the cross. I do it to spread the word, marketing.

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abijah
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by abijah »

nothing wrong with the cross as a symbol, mormons just wanna be different than the other christians.

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Fred
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Fred »

Valheim wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 3:51 am Your scenario feels like a stretch. Seatbelts raise safety more or less always.

We dont typically use crosses, but its not bad to do so. Its just not part of what we do. We have other symbols.

I have a tiny one on my backpack, but I dont identify so much with the cross. I do it to spread the word, marketing.
More or less is not a stretch when it is your life that will be lost for no legitimate reason other than government mandate.

Mamabear
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Mamabear »

He’s concerned with crosses which have been a symbol to all Christians? What if a Christian leader was concerned about garments and spoke of them with disregard?
While the world turns to garbage this was his message?
This means the prophets have no idea what’s coming as foretold in the book of Isaiah. They don’t even understand that before Israel is gathered she will be judged, purged and cleansed. They aren’t warning people about this because they think they are gathering right now but they are mistaken.

Adayala
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Adayala »

I think wearing a cross for right instance is ok but it can be misrepresented as jewelry. An accent to your wardrobe to enhance your look. I think this is why we dont wear crosses. Jesus Christ death isnt an accent to your wardrobe for someone to admire, instead of remembering what it truly represents. It can falsely be interpreted as someone who is righteous but really it makes them feel Christ like when they are anything but that. Hope i make sense. Thats how it was explained to me and i understood.
I have a friend who wears a cross and has fish tattoo but he cheats on his girlfriend and something came to light where the a girl told me "he isnt as innocent as he looks" then she told me what happen and i was in disbelief. But he wears crosses. Hence the point i m trying to make. It can be used to make people believe they are followers of a christ even a chirch can do the same thing but teach opposite doctrine but cause of cross they think they are being taught truths.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by CuriousThinker »

I wear a cross necklace. I will continue to wear it.

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John Tavner
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by John Tavner »

The Cross symbolizes God Cursing sin just like God cursed the fiery serpents. It also symbolizes to me "picking up our cross daily" or in other words, not letting sin against us produce sin in us. Being willing to suffer joyfully for others so that they might find truth and hte truth will set them free.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Elizabeth »

I was Christened, Confirmed, and married in the Church of England.
52 years ago the LDS Elders came to my door, and I subsequently joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Up until then I had always worn a cross necklace... following my conversion I have no longer done so.
Fred wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 2:54 am So, what does the cross mean to you?

NowWhat
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by NowWhat »

As I noted on another thread, giving up my cross when I joined the Church was even more difficult than giving up coffee. It meant Christ to me, not Christ's death.

FoundMyEden
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by FoundMyEden »

I have two of them hanging where I see them everyday.

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The Red Pill
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by The Red Pill »

Not a surprise...

Last conference Holland thought the 3 biggest problems in the world were:

1. Plague of biblical proportions (modified flu)
2. Environmental desecration (green new deal teaser)
3. Systemic racism

NONE of these would make my top 100 of what is most wrong in the world.

Can you say disconnected from reality...

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Fred wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 2:54 am So, what does the cross mean to you?
Personally I think people should do what they want. If it means something TO YOU, wear it. It's nobody else's business to dictate if someone wears a necklace that reminds them of Jesus, and it wasn't designed by a Mormon, approved by Mormon leadership, sold at Mormon owned stores. No matter what symbol you wear, it means something different to someone else. So just "don't care" what others think about it.

To me the cross represents human sacrifice and a horrific thirst for blood they must have had doing that to people in the town square just for stealing some bread or having unconventional beliefs. To me it's horrific that everyone watched it happen when there were 100x more citizens than Roman soldiers, and someone could have done something, but nobody did. Everyone watched him be hung and killed in a horrific way, and then said they turned around and claimed to worship him. I think things should have gone down differently. But hey Pontius washed his hands so let's all just be spineless and watch them murder the son of God we claim to worship right in front of us and our children.... Ok...... :?: :!:
I also don't believe in human sacrifice. I'm sorry but NO... I'm not going to murder someone else - or go along with it, so I can be saved. I don't believe that was the point. I believe that Jesus death was the result of a horrible situation and that's how history justified it - by claiming his horrific public murder was somehow necessary to "save us"?!?!.
That Jesus had power over death afterward, that tells us about HIM - DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MURDER, or somehow "prove" it was supposed to be.
Jesus TRIED to TEACH US the things that would save us - he never said "you have to murder me in a horrific and dehumanizing way and then I'll save you". I don't believe his death had anything to do with what he was trying to accomplish. Human sacrifice is an Aztec belief system. So I personally don't choose the cross as a symbol to represent Jesus. However when I see someone else wearing one, I ASSUME they are choosing a symbol that they personally see in a good light and are representing their LOVE for Jesus. I don't hold it against them for seeing the symbol differently than I do.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Adayala wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 6:13 am I think wearing a cross for right instance is ok but it can be misrepresented as jewelry. An accent to your wardrobe to enhance your look. I think this is why we dont wear crosses. Jesus Christ death isnt an accent to your wardrobe for someone to admire, instead of remembering what it truly represents. It can falsely be interpreted as someone who is righteous but really it makes them feel Christ like when they are anything but that. Hope i make sense. Thats how it was explained to me and i understood.
I have a friend who wears a cross and has fish tattoo but he cheats on his girlfriend and something came to light where the a girl told me "he isnt as innocent as he looks" then she told me what happen and i was in disbelief. But he wears crosses. Hence the point i m trying to make. It can be used to make people believe they are followers of a christ even a chirch can do the same thing but teach opposite doctrine but cause of cross they think they are being taught truths.
You believe somebody should be sin-free and heavenly perfect to wear a symbol of their deity - or that wearing a symbol is an indication of their personal status with Heaven? We aren't talking about temple garment rules here, it's a tattoo....... :?:
I have a picture of Jesus in my house who stares at me making mistakes every single day. Better get him out so I don't look like an imperfect hypocrite... :lol:

Serragon
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Serragon »

Crosses are a hold over from the idol worship of the Catholics. Idol worship was introduced into the Catholic church because the Pagans they were converting desired it and as a method of financial gain.

Debates over the use of physical symbols has been a huge issue throughout history, causing wars, schisms, and is one of the primary motivations for Muhammed in creating Islam.

President Holland is correct that we should not be wearing crosses.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by CuriousThinker »

Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 10:26 am Crosses are a hold over from the idol worship of the Catholics. Idol worship was introduced into the Catholic church because the Pagans they were converting desired it and as a method of financial gain.

Debates over the use of physical symbols has been a huge issue throughout history, causing wars, schisms, and is one of the primary motivations for Muhammed in creating Islam.

President Holland is correct that we should not be wearing crosses.
How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?

Serragon
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Serragon »

CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am
Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 10:26 am Crosses are a hold over from the idol worship of the Catholics. Idol worship was introduced into the Catholic church because the Pagans they were converting desired it and as a method of financial gain.

Debates over the use of physical symbols has been a huge issue throughout history, causing wars, schisms, and is one of the primary motivations for Muhammed in creating Islam.

President Holland is correct that we should not be wearing crosses.
How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?
There is a fundamental difference between an object that to the vast majority of the Christian world represents Christ Himself and is often worshipped vicariously and an object that is meant to remind you to make good choices.

And "Emblems of Belonging" makes me want to puke as that is progressive speak and is illustrative of the inroads that satanic ideology has made into our church.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by CuriousThinker »

Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:40 am
CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am
Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 10:26 am Crosses are a hold over from the idol worship of the Catholics. Idol worship was introduced into the Catholic church because the Pagans they were converting desired it and as a method of financial gain.

Debates over the use of physical symbols has been a huge issue throughout history, causing wars, schisms, and is one of the primary motivations for Muhammed in creating Islam.

President Holland is correct that we should not be wearing crosses.
How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?
There is a fundamental difference between an object that to the vast majority of the Christian world represents Christ Himself and is often worshipped vicariously and an object that is meant to remind you to make good choices.

And "Emblems of Belonging" makes me want to puke as that is progressive speak and is illustrative of the inroads that satanic ideology has made into our church.
I have never heard of anyone worshipping the cross, though I am sure they are out there. When I wear mine it is a reminder of who I represent and what I stand for. It represents the Savior and his sacrifice for me and my taking up the cross as he told us all too. If others do something crazy I don't think it means I should stop when I am not doing it crazy too. Wearing a cross is not the same as worshipping. Just like I wear garments, but I don't worship them.

Mamabear
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Mamabear »

Don’t wear a colored shirt if you’re a guy at church! Don’t get tattoos! Don’t wear more than one pair of earrings! Don’t wear a cross! Don’t show your shoulders! Don’t have a beard! Wear your garments!
None of it matters. I find it ironic that the scriptures warn against fine apparel and the leaders ignore that one and everbawdy running around in expensive suits!
We are temples of God made without hands where His Spirit may dwell. How about caring about that? Who cares about what we wear!
If I was still attending church I would buy the biggest cross and wear it every Sunday.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Elizabeth »

I have recently purchased a former Church property. Two crosses are prominent and at the highest points.
Somehow I have to find someone who can safely remove them and is willing to do so.

FoundMyEden
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by FoundMyEden »

Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 10:26 am Crosses are a hold over from the idol worship of the Catholics. Idol worship was introduced into the Catholic church because the Pagans they were converting desired it and as a method of financial gain.

Debates over the use of physical symbols has been a huge issue throughout history, causing wars, schisms, and is one of the primary motivations for Muhammed in creating Islam.

President Holland is correct that we should not be wearing crosses.
…or suit’s or ties…or heels and makeup and hair dye.

Pick your idol, pick your poison.

FoundMyEden
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by FoundMyEden »

Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:11 pm Don’t wear a colored shirt if you’re a guy at church! Don’t get tattoos! Don’t wear more than one pair of earrings! Don’t wear a cross! Don’t show your shoulders! Don’t have a beard! Wear your garments!
None of it matters. I find it ironic that the scriptures warn against fine apparel and the leaders ignore that one and everbawdy running around in expensive suits!
We are temples of God made without hands where His Spirit may dwell. How about caring about that? Who cares about what we wear!
If I was still attending church I would buy the biggest cross and wear it every Sunday.
Amen sista!

CuriousThinker
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by CuriousThinker »

This is a great article all-around.
https://www.ldsdaily.com/personal-lds-b ... symbolism/

Serragon
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Serragon »

CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:08 pm
Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:40 am
CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am
Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 10:26 am Crosses are a hold over from the idol worship of the Catholics. Idol worship was introduced into the Catholic church because the Pagans they were converting desired it and as a method of financial gain.

Debates over the use of physical symbols has been a huge issue throughout history, causing wars, schisms, and is one of the primary motivations for Muhammed in creating Islam.

President Holland is correct that we should not be wearing crosses.
How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?
There is a fundamental difference between an object that to the vast majority of the Christian world represents Christ Himself and is often worshipped vicariously and an object that is meant to remind you to make good choices.

And "Emblems of Belonging" makes me want to puke as that is progressive speak and is illustrative of the inroads that satanic ideology has made into our church.
I have never heard of anyone worshipping the cross, though I am sure they are out there. When I wear mine it is a reminder of who I represent and what I stand for. It represents the Savior and his sacrifice for me and my taking up the cross as he told us all too. If others do something crazy I don't think it means I should stop when I am not doing it crazy too. Wearing a cross is not the same as worshipping. Just like I wear garments, but I don't worship them.
Thanks for sharing what the cross subjectively means to you.

I find it strange how people will take emblems from other faiths that have specific meanings, uses, and history and then act as though they are magically devoid of all those properties because that person has made up their own subjective definition of said stolen symbol.

Your subjective description of what the cross means to you is the very definition of an idol. It is a man-made representation of God. We have become so ignorant of history and christian theology that we often don't understand what we are doing, just like the ancient Israelites didn't understand the full measure of what they were doing when they needed a man made representation of God.

I would never wear the cross, because I understand how it came to be, its history, and how God has felt about idols throughout Judeo-christian history. But to most, that is all irrelevant and all that matters is how they feel about it.

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