This church is super lame

[h_p]

I'll say it again. The work would NOT have been moved forward any other way. In ANY other way.

I challenge ANYONE on this board to show me differently.

They could have called out the evil for what it was. Stood for truth no matter the consequences. Seen what was coming before a bunch of apostates and atheists did. Encouraged people to get their own revelation on whether to get jabbed or not, and backed their decisions instead of throwing them to the wolves. Not lie, or at least not be deceived.

All those things would move the work of building stronger spirituality among the members, and could have been a beacon to all the other people in the world looking for somebody with the guts to stand up to the biggest evil of our generation.

But maybe this isn't the same "work" you're talking about. Butts in seats and dollars in the coffers, is what I'm guessing you're thinking of?

[Christianlee]

If the religious leaders in all denominations had the same fervent resolution and outspokedness of a Giorgia Meloni we would be in a far better place than we were by bowing to unrighteous authority during the “pandemic”. Religious leaders in most cases have undermined any real authority they claimed to have.

[h_p]

The world has more than enough politicians. We don't need any more. A lot of LDS and other Christians are leaving their churches because they realize they're empty sepulchres. Over the last two years of crazy, I was desperately looking for people who could see things as they really were, and had the courage to speak the truth about it. All I could find, as far as the eye could see, were cowards and quislings and sociopaths. I have no use for a false prophet who's just going to tell me to go along to get along, shut up and do what they tell you and maybe you won't get hurt. If that's the "work," well, no need to pray about it. You can find that on any street corner in Detroit.

[Subcomandante]

I'll say it again. The work would NOT have been moved forward any other way. In ANY other way.

I challenge ANYONE on this board to show me differently.

They could have called out the evil for what it was. Stood for truth no matter the consequences. Seen what was coming before a bunch of apostates and atheists did. Encouraged people to get their own revelation on whether to get jabbed or not, and backed their decisions instead of throwing them to the wolves. Not lie, or at least not be deceived.

All those things would move the work of building stronger spirituality among the members, and could have been a beacon to all the other people in the world looking for somebody with the guts to stand up to the biggest evil of our generation.

But maybe this isn't the same "work" you're talking about. Butts in seats and dollars in the coffers, is what I'm guessing you're thinking of?

They could have done all that publicly, and perhaps they did think of something.

Then Korea happened. A pastor at a megachurch there eventually got arrested by authorities for resisting contact tracing efforts and breaking health procedures. Though he would later be acquitted, other pastors also jumped in and started denouncing things. Several churches found their licenses revoked during this time, likewise for failing to follow the health regulations and other pastors were arrested.

All of this started in February of 2020 and by March of 2020 this was on news all over the world. Keep in mind that the prophets of our church decided to go along with the health regulations, and shut down everything worldwide. We were not going to be front-and-center simply because we were not in a position to be front-and-center. The work would have been destroyed at worst, severely hampered at best. Those other churches? Spoken with scorn locally and globally, their pastors jailed, their registrations revoked.

Then members started going out of their way to claim religious exemption to vaccinations. The Church noted its many millions of dollars sent to immunization programs to note that such a religious exemption claim done in the name of the Church would be ridiculous, and especially in the light of many counsels to mask up and get the jabs, culminating in an "urging" letter by the First Presidency, which was likewise rejected by many members.


I want to bring to mind the Ghana Freeze, a period of time for 18 months in the country of Ghana in the late 1980s. We all know who was President of the Church in the 1980s, he's probably the most cited prophet on this forum not named Joseph Smith. His words have been used as justification why not to do the things which pretty much everybody else did and has done during this time. Yet despite all of this, President Benson signed off on the procedures that would soon follow in Ghana and would continue over the course of 18 months. No going to the chapels. No overt meetings except in each family's home, presided over by the father of the family. There is nothing in this pandemic that the Church members have gone through that would even compare to what the Ghanaians went through during their Freeze.

Yet had the Church refused to follow the local restrictions, the Church would have seen itself in a Ghana Freeze multiplied by a hundred at minimum. Even stronger restrictions would have followed because essentially the Church would have been made illegal in many lands, its chapels and temples the world over confiscated by the government officials.

This is also why I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that President Benson would also have approved these same things that President Nelson approved, and I can likewise say, without a shadow of a doubt, that much like you malign the current leadership for the things they have done over the past few years, you also would have maligned that prophet which many people here put up on a pedestal.

Who else would have been guilty of these same actions 2000 years ago?

None less than the Pharisees, who the Savior roundly called hypocrites.

[h_p]

<Lots of reasons>

Makes a lot of sense, now that you put it that way. We'll just have to accept that our leaders are going to lie and deceive us sometimes, and maybe even throw us under the bus if they have to. It's for the greater good.

In other news, rumor has it that hymn #237 will be replaced with Billy Joel's "Only the Good Die Young" in the new hymnal.

[David13]

Thanks, h_p,

I always wondered what subbie looked like in person.
dc

[LDS Watchman]

The apologists are also running around in circles, just sayin'. It's been quite enlightening to see a few of you try to explain away the last two years.

I don't have to explain myself away using mental gymnastics. I know of the harsh realities of an international church trying to move along during the pandemic. A lot of the solutions that have ben posited here by many would not have worked without at best a severe curtailing of the work of the Lord in a time when the work of the Lord needs to be active.

The problem is, is that you have already decided that the prophet can never lead the church astray, and so that whatever they do, it must have automatically been from the Lord even when they are sending innocent people to their deaths. Do you really think that the Lord could not "move the work forward" any other way?

If what you believe was the truth, then this must mean that the Lord instructed President Nelson and the apostles to smile to us and lie through their teeth while members went out and got maimed and killed.

^^^^^^

This right here is what we in the real world, and have the Holy Spirit, call a "red flag".

I'll say it again. The work would NOT have been moved forward any other way. In ANY other way.

I challenge ANYONE on this board to show me differently.

Did President Nelson really have to call it a Godsend and send out the letter telling everyone to get the vaccinated? Did he have to tell everyone to follow the wise and thoughtful governments and health experts?

What if the church would have told everyone to prayerfully make their own decisions and to be respectful of the beliefs and opinions of others, while reminding the members that God has instructed us not to break the law and to be mindful of the vulnerable people among us?

What if the church had said that we need to be subject to the powers that be for now and to comply with the local mandates for this reason, instead of acting like the governments were doing everything right?

[jreuben]

Been a member my whole life. Crossed all the "Ts" and dotted all of the "I's." I have been on the fence for some time now and while watching conference today I have finally come to the conclusion that this church, the LDS church, is really, really lame. The leaders cant even keep the narrative straight enough to make the thing even barely palatable anymore. Doctrinally, this thing has nothing to offer me anymore. In a nutshell, I have been on this forum since nearly the beginning. There are some great people here but I have to pull the eject lever on the whole thing. Best of luck to all of you and thanks for the journey.

It's important to recognize that the restoration and priesthood authority are real. The church began its descent into apostasy in 1890. Go back to previous to this time and you will find a blast of light and truth that will carry you forward.

[darknesstolight]

I'll say it again. The work would NOT have been moved forward any other way. In ANY other way.

I challenge ANYONE on this board to show me differently.

They could have called out the evil for what it was. Stood for truth no matter the consequences. Seen what was coming before a bunch of apostates and atheists did. Encouraged people to get their own revelation on whether to get jabbed or not, and backed their decisions instead of throwing them to the wolves. Not lie, or at least not be deceived.

All those things would move the work of building stronger spirituality among the members, and could have been a beacon to all the other people in the world looking for somebody with the guts to stand up to the biggest evil of our generation.

But maybe this isn't the same "work" you're talking about. Butts in seats and dollars in the coffers, is what I'm guessing you're thinking of?

They could have done all that publicly, and perhaps they did think of something.

Then Korea happened. A pastor at a megachurch there eventually got arrested by authorities for resisting contact tracing efforts and breaking health procedures. Though he would later be acquitted, other pastors also jumped in and started denouncing things. Several churches found their licenses revoked during this time, likewise for failing to follow the health regulations and other pastors were arrested.

All of this started in February of 2020 and by March of 2020 this was on news all over the world. Keep in mind that the prophets of our church decided to go along with the health regulations, and shut down everything worldwide. We were not going to be front-and-center simply because we were not in a position to be front-and-center. The work would have been destroyed at worst, severely hampered at best. Those other churches? Spoken with scorn locally and globally, their pastors jailed, their registrations revoked.

Then members started going out of their way to claim religious exemption to vaccinations. The Church noted its many millions of dollars sent to immunization programs to note that such a religious exemption claim done in the name of the Church would be ridiculous, and especially in the light of many counsels to mask up and get the jabs, culminating in an "urging" letter by the First Presidency, which was likewise rejected by many members.


I want to bring to mind the Ghana Freeze, a period of time for 18 months in the country of Ghana in the late 1980s. We all know who was President of the Church in the 1980s, he's probably the most cited prophet on this forum not named Joseph Smith. His words have been used as justification why not to do the things which pretty much everybody else did and has done during this time. Yet despite all of this, President Benson signed off on the procedures that would soon follow in Ghana and would continue over the course of 18 months. No going to the chapels. No overt meetings except in each family's home, presided over by the father of the family. There is nothing in this pandemic that the Church members have gone through that would even compare to what the Ghanaians went through during their Freeze.

Yet had the Church refused to follow the local restrictions, the Church would have seen itself in a Ghana Freeze multiplied by a hundred at minimum. Even stronger restrictions would have followed because essentially the Church would have been made illegal in many lands, its chapels and temples the world over confiscated by the government officials.

This is also why I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that President Benson would also have approved these same things that President Nelson approved, and I can likewise say, without a shadow of a doubt, that much like you malign the current leadership for the things they have done over the past few years, you also would have maligned that prophet which many people here put up on a pedestal.

Who else would have been guilty of these same actions 2000 years ago?

None less than the Pharisees, who the Savior roundly called hypocrites.

Every reason you stated is rooted in saving face before man or about keeping up appearances.

The Church did not have to go along with the world in order to be protected from the world.

...

[Jashon]

Did President Nelson really have to call it a Godsend and send out the letter telling everyone to get the vaccinated? Did he have to tell everyone to follow the wise and thoughtful governments and health experts?

No, he didn't. He parroted the lie about it being safe and effective. First, it's wrong to call a "vaccine", any vaccine, safe. There is a low level risk associated with all vaccines. It just so happened that TPTB allowed this jab to be rolled out, even though it is much riskier than your garden variety vaccine, 10 to 100 times more risky to health than what is usually permitted. And we know it isn't effective at all. RMN looks very bad because of this.

Moreover, our gov't leaders and governing health experts are not wise and thoughtful. They're corrupt.

The whole Aug 2021 statement indicates that RMN and Q15 have been taken in by the lies of evil globalist forces.

Now, they appear to be unaware they've been captured by conspiring forces that don't have our welfare in mind. Yet, as a result of being asleep at the wheel, they have foisted bad counsel on the unwitting, compliant membership.

[InfoWarrior82]

Did President Nelson really have to call it a Godsend and send out the letter telling everyone to get the vaccinated? Did he have to tell everyone to follow the wise and thoughtful governments and health experts?

No, he didn't. He parroted the lie about it being safe and effective. First, it's wrong to call a "vaccine", any vaccine, safe. There is a low level risk associated with all vaccines. It just so happened that TPTB allowed this jab to be rolled out, even though it is much riskier than your garden variety vaccine, 10 to 100 times more risky to health than what is usually permitted. And we know it isn't effective at all. RMN looks very bad because of this.

Moreover, our gov't leaders and governing health experts are not wise and thoughtful. They're corrupt.

The whole Aug 2021 statement indicates that RMN and Q15 have been taken in by the lies of evil globalist forces.

Now, they appear to be unaware they've been captured by conspiring forces that don't have our welfare in mind. Yet, as a result of being asleep at the wheel, they have foisted bad counsel on the unwitting, compliant membership.

But President Nelson told us that we can trust them completely?

[The Red Pill]

Been a member my whole life. Crossed all the "Ts" and dotted all of the "I's." I have been on the fence for some time now and while watching conference today I have finally come to the conclusion that this church, the LDS church, is really, really lame. The leaders cant even keep the narrative straight enough to make the thing even barely palatable anymore. Doctrinally, this thing has nothing to offer me anymore. In a nutshell, I have been on this forum since nearly the beginning. There are some great people here but I have to pull the eject lever on the whole thing. Best of luck to all of you and thanks for the journey.

It's important to recognize that the restoration and priesthood authority are real. The church began its descent into apostasy in 1890. Go back to previous to this time and you will find a blast of light and truth that will carry you forward.

Go back to June 27th, 1844 as the date of decent into apostasy...

[Jashon]

Did President Nelson really have to call it a Godsend and send out the letter telling everyone to get the vaccinated? Did he have to tell everyone to follow the wise and thoughtful governments and health experts?

No, he didn't. He parroted the lie about it being safe and effective. First, it's wrong to call a "vaccine", any vaccine, safe. There is a low level risk associated with all vaccines. It just so happened that TPTB allowed this jab to be rolled out, even though it is much riskier than your garden variety vaccine, 10 to 100 times more risky to health than what is usually permitted. And we know it isn't effective at all. RMN looks very bad because of this.

Moreover, our gov't leaders and governing health experts are not wise and thoughtful. They're corrupt.

The whole Aug 2021 statement indicates that RMN and Q15 have been taken in by the lies of evil globalist forces.

Now, they appear to be unaware they've been captured by conspiring forces that don't have our welfare in mind. Yet, as a result of being asleep at the wheel, they have foisted bad counsel on the unwitting, compliant membership.

But President Nelson told us that we can trust them completely?

Yes, we should trust Pfizer, which paid the largest fine for fraud in the pharmaceutical industry.

And therein lies a problem. We have a church leader who is a Pfizer executive, who told the FP these jabs were to be trusted, even though the vetting process was corrupt and insufficient and the 95% effective statement was wrong, at best misleading.

So now we have all these church leaders that are part of corrupt organizations, and since they're making tons of money and have high standing, both in and out of the church, we're completely tied in with whatever these multinational corporations and NGOs say and want.

[The Red Pill]

Did President Nelson really have to call it a Godsend and send out the letter telling everyone to get the vaccinated? Did he have to tell everyone to follow the wise and thoughtful governments and health experts?

No, he didn't. He parroted the lie about it being safe and effective. First, it's wrong to call a "vaccine", any vaccine, safe. There is a low level risk associated with all vaccines. It just so happened that TPTB allowed this jab to be rolled out, even though it is much riskier than your garden variety vaccine, 10 to 100 times more risky to health than what is usually permitted. And we know it isn't effective at all. RMN looks very bad because of this.

Moreover, our gov't leaders and governing health experts are not wise and thoughtful. They're corrupt.

The whole Aug 2021 statement indicates that RMN and Q15 have been taken in by the lies of evil globalist forces.

Now, they appear to be unaware they've been captured by conspiring forces that don't have our welfare in mind. Yet, as a result of being asleep at the wheel, they have foisted bad counsel on the unwitting, compliant membership.

But President Nelson told us that we can trust them completely?

Lessons we should ALL have learned over the last two years:

1. The ends DO NOT justify the means.
2. The government wants you dead
3. The LDS church goes along with #2
4. Do NOT trust in men (or women)
5. Look to Christ and God directly
6. The LDS leadership CAN lead you astray
7. The LDS leadership will coverup the truth
8. LDS apologists will attempt to get you overlook #1, #3, #4, #6, #7

[InfoWarrior82]

Did President Nelson really have to call it a Godsend and send out the letter telling everyone to get the vaccinated? Did he have to tell everyone to follow the wise and thoughtful governments and health experts?

No, he didn't. He parroted the lie about it being safe and effective. First, it's wrong to call a "vaccine", any vaccine, safe. There is a low level risk associated with all vaccines. It just so happened that TPTB allowed this jab to be rolled out, even though it is much riskier than your garden variety vaccine, 10 to 100 times more risky to health than what is usually permitted. And we know it isn't effective at all. RMN looks very bad because of this.

Moreover, our gov't leaders and governing health experts are not wise and thoughtful. They're corrupt.

The whole Aug 2021 statement indicates that RMN and Q15 have been taken in by the lies of evil globalist forces.

Now, they appear to be unaware they've been captured by conspiring forces that don't have our welfare in mind. Yet, as a result of being asleep at the wheel, they have foisted bad counsel on the unwitting, compliant membership.

But President Nelson told us that we can trust them completely?

Lessons we should ALL have learned over the last two years:

1. The ends DO NOT justify the means.
2. The government wants you dead
3. The LDS church goes along with #2
4. Do NOT trust in men (or women)
5. Look to Christ and God directly
6. The LDS leadership CAN lead you astray
7. The LDS leadership will coverup the truth
8. LDS apologists will attempt to get you overlook #1, #3, #4, #6, #7

Wow, thanks for the red pill, The Red Pill.

[Mamabear]

The world has more than enough politicians. We don't need any more. A lot of LDS and other Christians are leaving their churches because they realize they're empty sepulchres. Over the last two years of crazy, I was desperately looking for people who could see things as they really were, and had the courage to speak the truth about it. All I could find, as far as the eye could see, were cowards and quislings and sociopaths. I have no use for a false prophet who's just going to tell me to go along to get along, shut up and do what they tell you and maybe you won't get hurt. If that's the "work," well, no need to pray about it. You can find that on any street corner in Detroit.

BC40DEB2-966D-4100-9624-E3E6ED4C1862.jpeg (238.63 KiB) Viewed 489 times

[darknesstolight]

In court through freedom of information act requests and through whistleblowers and through other means of discovery we have publicly available proof and evidence that the desicions around COVID-19 gene therapy injection had nothing to do with science, being sage and effective, wise counsel, or for the good of society. Everything about COVID-19 gene therapy experiment and the virus itself is manufactured and done with the desire to overthrow the freedoms and liberties of all freedom loving societies and at the same time experiment on a brainwashed population techniques to control the population in size and in all respects.

The gene therapy treatment was known to be harmful when recommending its use. The negative side effects were already seen when it was being forced. There is proof that government agencies collided with many private entities, including churches, to SELL a narrative that coerced people through fear and false information to take an experimental gene therapy treatment. Government agencies suppressed and blocked it's citizens speech by threatening and using companies like Facebook and also non-profits. Industries were given financial incentive AND they were threatened by government agencies simultaneously to go along with the lie. Only those who had true integrity were brave enough to say, "No!" we do not all of a sudden believe pharmaceutical companies who pay for 80% of ad revenue for most News outlets and contribute to politicians and have a proven track record of repeatedly putting profits before human lives. Government isn't suddenly full of wise and honest folks who are just caring about your safety. It's ridiculously naive.

Jesus suffered for the truth. This is a time where good men and women were and are made to suffer needlessly and unjustly for being sane, for being rational, for being true, and for not going along with the mob.

How disappointing to see our church join the mob in its fear mongering and coercion to trust the friendly Pfizer and benevolent wise government and disregard your gut instinct and common sense and ignore that the emperor is naked, and just go along its good for you!

It is all a lie. The COVID-19 gene therapy experiment is and will be seen soon by all as worse than what the Nazis did to experiment on the populations they did. This is a travesty and all who support it and coerced others to partake will be damned unless they repent sorely.

...

[darknesstolight]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p2uP0cfNjcg

...

[jreuben]

Go back to June 27th, 1844 as the date of decent into apostasy...

That was a truly horrible and demonic celebratory day, but no, the actual full on apostasy began in earnest with Wilford Woodruff's sad and catastrophic mistake via the Manifesto attempted deception game with the luciferians.

[EvanLM]

I'll say it again. The work would NOT have been moved forward any other way. In ANY other way.

I challenge ANYONE on this board to show me differently.

They could have called out the evil for what it was. Stood for truth no matter the consequences. Seen what was coming before a bunch of apostates and atheists did. Encouraged people to get their own revelation on whether to get jabbed or not, and backed their decisions instead of throwing them to the wolves. Not lie, or at least not be deceived.

All those things would move the work of building stronger spirituality among the members, and could have been a beacon to all the other people in the world looking for somebody with the guts to stand up to the biggest evil of our generation.

But maybe this isn't the same "work" you're talking about. Butts in seats and dollars in the coffers, is what I'm guessing you're thinking of?

They could have done all that publicly, and perhaps they did think of something.

Then Korea happened. A pastor at a megachurch there eventually got arrested by authorities for resisting contact tracing efforts and breaking health procedures. Though he would later be acquitted, other pastors also jumped in and started denouncing things. Several churches found their licenses revoked during this time, likewise for failing to follow the health regulations and other pastors were arrested.

All of this started in February of 2020 and by March of 2020 this was on news all over the world. Keep in mind that the prophets of our church decided to go along with the health regulations, and shut down everything worldwide. We were not going to be front-and-center simply because we were not in a position to be front-and-center. The work would have been destroyed at worst, severely hampered at best. Those other churches? Spoken with scorn locally and globally, their pastors jailed, their registrations revoked.

Then members started going out of their way to claim religious exemption to vaccinations. The Church noted its many millions of dollars sent to immunization programs to note that such a religious exemption claim done in the name of the Church would be ridiculous, and especially in the light of many counsels to mask up and get the jabs, culminating in an "urging" letter by the First Presidency, which was likewise rejected by many members.


I want to bring to mind the Ghana Freeze, a period of time for 18 months in the country of Ghana in the late 1980s. We all know who was President of the Church in the 1980s, he's probably the most cited prophet on this forum not named Joseph Smith. His words have been used as justification why not to do the things which pretty much everybody else did and has done during this time. Yet despite all of this, President Benson signed off on the procedures that would soon follow in Ghana and would continue over the course of 18 months. No going to the chapels. No overt meetings except in each family's home, presided over by the father of the family. There is nothing in this pandemic that the Church members have gone through that would even compare to what the Ghanaians went through during their Freeze.

Yet had the Church refused to follow the local restrictions, the Church would have seen itself in a Ghana Freeze multiplied by a hundred at minimum. Even stronger restrictions would have followed because essentially the Church would have been made illegal in many lands, its chapels and temples the world over confiscated by the government officials.

This is also why I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that President Benson would also have approved these same things that President Nelson approved, and I can likewise say, without a shadow of a doubt, that much like you malign the current leadership for the things they have done over the past few years, you also would have maligned that prophet which many people here put up on a pedestal.

Who else would have been guilty of these same actions 2000 years ago?

None less than the Pharisees, who the Savior roundly called hypocrites.

ETB didn't trust the government, refused to go work for DC and the prophets had to talk him into it and was aJohn Bircher. wrong on that one. . . he wouldn't have touched it, Snd like Hinckley when he told us about AIDS, ETB would have said to pray for a cure and for those who are sick. Some of the fact that RMN was a doctor made him trust Fauci much like JS trusted MH. ETB didn't trust government at all . . . neither did his centemporiaries like DOM, ,etc

[EvanLM]

Oh, believe me. I worry every day that it is me not the church. But the Holy Spirit is my companion and guide I this matter.

If it were truly your companion it would not be leading you astray from the established Church.

Are you claiming the Catholics are speaking the truth? They claim the establishment of the true church.

The Catholics claim many things. Yet many of their practices go against the Scriptures. This is why a restoration of the truth was needed.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does everything according to Scripture as well as prophetic revelation that guides the Church. No restoration is needed because the restoration continues. That some people don't like or agree with the direction the Church is going is noted.

If you want to know where i am coming from, check out what Elder Renlund had to say in his conference address. It was a good talk on how to discern revelation.

did he get the shot?

[EvanLM]

yep and required to raise your hand to sustain with your dog and God as the only witnesses

Super confused, but I do sincerely appreciate you being willing to answer.

What she was talking about is that during every semi-annual conference, the names of the general authorities are read, and we are asked if we sustain them, and signify by raising our hand. I guess some people do this alone in their homes.......?!?!

What happens if sustaining is failed to be realized?

Sorry for all the questions!! Still learning...

I just don't raise my hand anymore . . .I don't know half the people we are sustaining anyway and the advanced elders

[Thinker]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p2uP0cfNjcg
...

"It is easier to believe a lie that one has heard a thousand times than to believe a fact that one has never heard before." ― Robert Lynd

[EvanLM]

Are you claiming the Catholics are speaking the truth? They claim the establishment of the true church.

The Catholics claim many things. Yet many of their practices go against the Scriptures. This is why a restoration of the truth was needed.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does everything according to Scripture as well as prophetic revelation that guides the Church. No restoration is needed because the restoration continues. That some people don't like or agree with the direction the Church is going is noted.

If you want to know where i am coming from, check out what Elder Renlund had to say in his conference address. It was a good talk on how to discern revelation.

The SAME Renlund that recommended the deadly-jab from the pulpit in conference????

That Renlund????

Sorry, but Renlund has ZERO, ZIP, NADA credibility on the subject of discerning revelation. He can't do it himself...what makes you think he has the right to preach it to others?

As an Apostle and as a doctor, he certainly has more credibility to talk about medical issues than just about everyone else on this forum, myself included.

hasn't been practicing for alot of years. . . also hasn't been to the conferences to keep up to date and if he needed to do any recertification I'll bet that has lapsed. That is why he is still operating by the old system that wasn't trying to get rich and kill people on the way.

I, personally, wouldn't get a surgery form RMN nor advise any of my family or friends to just cuz he is out of practice. To believe he is still up on medicine is weird.

There's been a lot of talk recently about this fentanyl and that it is killing thousands in our country. The idea use to be that the pusher would not kill the junkie so the pusher always had a customer. So, think about it. fentanyl coming into our country that kills . . . stronger than any given in hospital in a smaller pill usually trafficked under percoset or a weak pill. In other words more deception. But it kills.

Who is paying these pushers? it wouldn't be a constant flow of customers and this and these deaths areno accident . . . killers? same thing---drugs . .. killer pharmaceuticals . . . .sorcery as some of you have mentioned . . . what the hellis going on?

these kids don't even get a chance to experiment on drugs like in the 70s

[The Red Pill]

Go back to June 27th, 1844 as the date of decent into apostasy...

That was a truly horrible and demonic celebratory day, but no, the actual full on apostasy began in earnest with Wilford Woodruff's sad and catastrophic mistake via the Manifesto attempted deception game with the luciferians.

We will have to agree to disagree...respectfully of course.

Dig deeper into Brigham, Rob Fotheringham, Hemlock Knots have done some extensive research on the subject if you are interested.