General Conference October 2022 - Saturday Live Thread and Recap

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:28 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:21 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 6:39 am
Sorry, I couldn't help but snicker when you said that. Read the BoM again if you'd like a pattern of how to care for the poor and how the ancient prophets condemned the latter-day churches for grinding upon the face of the poor, including your very own LDS org corp.
So according to you working with governments and organizations to provide food, water, shelter, etc., to the poor and the needy throughout the world is "grinding the faces of te poor."

Wow. Tell us again why we should listen to any of your interpretations?
I’ve never told you to listen to anything I say. I’d downright reject my opinions if I were you. Sure, the church does a few little things here and there to appease the Mormon Conscience. We’ve gone the rounds on this before, but the church has done so much spiritual and physical damage to the saints by requiring the saints to pay an incorrect tithe for their salvation so they can stay on the “covenant path.”
So spending a billion dollars last year to help the poor and the needy around the world in addition to all that is done at the local level is a "little thing?"

Surely you can't be serious?
When you have $130B+ in slush money, and you are a trillion-dollar church, yes. That's less than 1%. But my real focus is on how they grind the face of the poor through an incorrect tithe and attach that to the "covenant path." That's the greatest concern.

BTW, governments do this same thing. They give a handout here and there, yet enslave entire populations through welfare programs.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Joan7 »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:48 am President Nelson never said that God commanded us to take the shots and that God said they were safe and effective. Though, admittedly many people viewed it this way with the official First Presidency Letter.

I wish he wouldn't have done that. I personally believe this was a mistake. But it doesn't matter what I think. It only matters what God thinks. The reality is that out of the people who were vaccinated, only a very small percentage suffered serious side effects, let alone died.

Assuming it was a mistake, but President Nelson had good intentions, then I trust that God will have mercy on him and judge him according to the desires of his heart.
You said: "The reality is that out of the people who were vaccinated, only a very small percentage suffered serious side effects, let alone died."

Either that is a bald-faced lie, or you purposely avert your eyes from the truth. I've read thousands of personal stories of people who have died as a direct result of the shots. I have read many more where folks are seriously injured or dying. I follow groups on Facebook of people showing and telling of the devastating effects those vaccines have caused. I started a similar group on Gab. There are death certificates attributing the demise to the vaccines. Many funeral home directors and those doing autopsies have detailed the devastating findings, including huge clots, and damaged or destroyed blood vessels. There are so many side effects, that Pfizer's released results of testing indicated more the 1000 they knew about. Cancers are skyrocketing. The death rates have gone up dozens of percentage points.

You say you believe President Nelson made a mistake. How would a man led by God, and infallible - according to current "philosophies of men" make a mistake? That doesn't compute. In any case, I believe it was a sin. Sin, or mistake, where is the course correction? Where is the public repentance? Where is the mighty change in heart of the Church?

The Church of Jesus Christ has embraced perversions and Babylon, and most of the members are being led carefully down to hell. Why do you think the scriptures talk, in multiple places, about the "Daughter of Zion" and that she has chains around her neck? Awaken to your awful situation.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

CuriousThinker wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:47 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:28 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:21 am

So according to you working with governments and organizations to provide food, water, shelter, etc., to the poor and the needy throughout the world is "grinding the faces of te poor."

Wow. Tell us again why we should listen to any of your interpretations?
I’ve never told you to listen to anything I say. I’d downright reject my opinions if I were you. Sure, the church does a few little things here and there to appease the Mormon Conscience. We’ve gone the rounds on this before, but the church has done so much spiritual and physical damage to the saints by requiring the saints to pay an incorrect tithe for their salvation so they can stay on the “covenant path.”
So spending a billion dollars last year to help the poor and the needy around the world in addition to all that is done at the local level is a "little thing?"

Surely you can't be serious?
If I remember correctly, that almost billion INCLUDES fast offerings and they are the biggest chunk and that stays within the congregation. We don't give much outside the Church. Individuals do, but the Church doesn't.
Whether or not the billion includes fast offering funds or not is really irrelevant. Taking care of the poor and the needy in a church of less than 17 million, would only take at most a few million.

The church spent a billion on caring for the poor and the needy world wide last year. And angry people accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Unbelievable.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:11 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:28 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:21 am

So according to you working with governments and organizations to provide food, water, shelter, etc., to the poor and the needy throughout the world is "grinding the faces of te poor."

Wow. Tell us again why we should listen to any of your interpretations?
I’ve never told you to listen to anything I say. I’d downright reject my opinions if I were you. Sure, the church does a few little things here and there to appease the Mormon Conscience. We’ve gone the rounds on this before, but the church has done so much spiritual and physical damage to the saints by requiring the saints to pay an incorrect tithe for their salvation so they can stay on the “covenant path.”
So spending a billion dollars last year to help the poor and the needy around the world in addition to all that is done at the local level is a "little thing?"

Surely you can't be serious?
When you have $130B+ in slush money, and you are a trillion-dollar church, yes. That's less than 1%. But my real focus is on how they grind the face of the poor through an incorrect tithe and attach that to the "covenant path." That's the greatest concern.

BTW, governments do this same thing. They give a handout here and there, yet enslave entire populations through welfare programs.
Whatever you say buddy. The church spends a billion last year in helping the poor and the needy and you turn around and accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Simply unbelievable.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:41 am
Whatever you say buddy. The church spends a billion last year in helping the poor and the needy and you turn around and accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Simply unbelievable.
Is less than 1% a "little"? BTW, they are doing damage control for hoarding money. They are doing this for the PR, not to care for the poor. If they wanted to care for the saints they would teach an honest tithe per the principles taught in the BoM.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

Kit-OTW wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:26 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:48 am President Nelson never said that God commanded us to take the shots and that God said they were safe and effective. Though, admittedly many people viewed it this way with the official First Presidency Letter.

I wish he wouldn't have done that. I personally believe this was a mistake. But it doesn't matter what I think. It only matters what God thinks. The reality is that out of the people who were vaccinated, only a very small percentage suffered serious side effects, let alone died.

Assuming it was a mistake, but President Nelson had good intentions, then I trust that God will have mercy on him and judge him according to the desires of his heart.
You said: "The reality is that out of the people who were vaccinated, only a very small percentage suffered serious side effects, let alone died."

Either that is a bald-faced lie, or you purposely avert your eyes from the truth. I've read thousands of personal stories of people who have died as a direct result of the shots. I have read many more where folks are seriously injured or dying. I follow groups on Facebook of people showing and telling of the devastating effects those vaccines have caused. I started a similar group on Gab. There are death certificates attributing the demise to the vaccines. Many funeral home directors and those doing autopsies have detailed the devastating findings, including huge clots, and damaged or destroyed blood vessels. There are so many side effects, that Pfizer's released results of testing indicated more the 1000 they knew about. Cancers are skyrocketing. The death rates have gone up dozens of percentage points.

You say you believe President Nelson made a mistake. How would a man led by God, and infallible - according to current "philosophies of men" make a mistake? That doesn't compute. In any case, I believe it was a sin. Sin, or mistake, where is the course correction? Where is the public repentance? Where is the mighty change in heart of the Church?

The Church of Jesus Christ has embraced perversions and Babylon, and most of the members are being led carefully down to hell. Why do you think the scriptures talk, in multiple places, about the "Daughter of Zion" and that she has chains around her neck? Awaken to your awful situation.
Statistically of the billions who were vaccinated, what percentage died or were seriously injured because of it? And what percentage of those who were vaccinated and died can reasonably be linked to the church urging people to get vaccinated?

Literally NO ONE claims President Nelson is infallible and incapable of making any mistakes. So please spare us the strawman argument.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:43 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:41 am
Whatever you say buddy. The church spends a billion last year in helping the poor and the needy and you turn around and accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Simply unbelievable.
Is less than 1% a "little"? BTW, they are doing damage control for hoarding money. They are doing this for the PR, not to care for the poor. If they wanted to care for the saints they would teach an honest tithe per the principles taught in the BoM.
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
You are correct, they have many "fine sanctuaries" to build and maintain.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:23 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:17 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:15 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:07 am

I've posted the scriptures and they speak for themselves. You just can't comprehend them because you have already made up your mind that the Lord is commanding all of it and there must not be an alternate explanation.
In other words you aren't able to show me where the scriptures actually say what you’re claiming. Hear you loud and clear.
I already posted the scriptures previously. Your only response to them was "Nuh-uh!!!!! nOoOoO that's not what they say!!!!"
If those scriptures actually say what you’re claiming it would be easy to break them down and show me where they say what you're claiming. But you refuse to do that, even though I keep asking you to.

Instead you keeping insulting me and jumping up and down shouting "Agenda 2030, Agenda 2030!"

This speaks volumes.
Look, if the fact that our church has officially joined with the United Nations Multi-Faith Task Force for Sustainability in implementing Agenda 2030 is not a big deal for you, then nothing anyone says to you will make a difference in your understanding of the scriptures that have been put forward for you to consider.

If for whatever reason, in the future, that you start seeing the brethren get increasingly too cozy with satan's church, then perhaps the following scriptures may be of benefit to you:



ISAIAH 28
ISAIAH 56
JEREMIAH 23
EZEKIEL 13
EZEKIEL 33
MORMON 8
D&C 29
D&C 101
ETHER 8
D&C 101
D&C 103
D&C 84
D&C 63
MICAH 3
JST- MARK 9
2 NEPHI 28
3 NEPHI 16
JACOB 5

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InfoWarrior82
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Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:44 am
Kit-OTW wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:26 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:48 am President Nelson never said that God commanded us to take the shots and that God said they were safe and effective. Though, admittedly many people viewed it this way with the official First Presidency Letter.

I wish he wouldn't have done that. I personally believe this was a mistake. But it doesn't matter what I think. It only matters what God thinks. The reality is that out of the people who were vaccinated, only a very small percentage suffered serious side effects, let alone died.

Assuming it was a mistake, but President Nelson had good intentions, then I trust that God will have mercy on him and judge him according to the desires of his heart.
You said: "The reality is that out of the people who were vaccinated, only a very small percentage suffered serious side effects, let alone died."

Either that is a bald-faced lie, or you purposely avert your eyes from the truth. I've read thousands of personal stories of people who have died as a direct result of the shots. I have read many more where folks are seriously injured or dying. I follow groups on Facebook of people showing and telling of the devastating effects those vaccines have caused. I started a similar group on Gab. There are death certificates attributing the demise to the vaccines. Many funeral home directors and those doing autopsies have detailed the devastating findings, including huge clots, and damaged or destroyed blood vessels. There are so many side effects, that Pfizer's released results of testing indicated more the 1000 they knew about. Cancers are skyrocketing. The death rates have gone up dozens of percentage points.

You say you believe President Nelson made a mistake. How would a man led by God, and infallible - according to current "philosophies of men" make a mistake? That doesn't compute. In any case, I believe it was a sin. Sin, or mistake, where is the course correction? Where is the public repentance? Where is the mighty change in heart of the Church?

The Church of Jesus Christ has embraced perversions and Babylon, and most of the members are being led carefully down to hell. Why do you think the scriptures talk, in multiple places, about the "Daughter of Zion" and that she has chains around her neck? Awaken to your awful situation.
Statistically of the billions who were vaccinated, what percentage died or were seriously injured because of it? And what percentage of those who were vaccinated and died can reasonably be linked to the church urging people to get vaccinated?

Literally NO ONE claims President Nelson is infallible and incapable of making any mistakes. So please spare us the strawman argument.
So you admit that he has blood on his hands? Innocent church members maimed and murdered. for what? The greater good?

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:49 am
So you admit that he has blood on his hands? Innocent church members maimed and murdered. for what? The greater good?
"Good global" citizenry.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Joan7 »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:39 am
CuriousThinker wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:47 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:28 am

I’ve never told you to listen to anything I say. I’d downright reject my opinions if I were you. Sure, the church does a few little things here and there to appease the Mormon Conscience. We’ve gone the rounds on this before, but the church has done so much spiritual and physical damage to the saints by requiring the saints to pay an incorrect tithe for their salvation so they can stay on the “covenant path.”
So spending a billion dollars last year to help the poor and the needy around the world in addition to all that is done at the local level is a "little thing?"

Surely you can't be serious?
If I remember correctly, that almost billion INCLUDES fast offerings and they are the biggest chunk and that stays within the congregation. We don't give much outside the Church. Individuals do, but the Church doesn't.
Whether or not the billion includes fast offering funds or not is really irrelevant. Taking care of the poor and the needy in a church of less than 17 million, would only take at most a few million.

The church spent a billion on caring for the poor and the needy world wide last year. And angry people accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Unbelievable.
Let us examine the topic grinding the faces of the poor. In the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord outlines His divine plan to care for the poor. It does not say, anywhere in that record that the poor are to pay tithing. It says the surplus is to be put in the Bishop's storehouse to distribute to the poor and needy. These were administered by the local leaders. How is it that the Church now demands that even the poorest of Saints pay 10% of their meager income, or they are not even worthy to be members? How is it that those Bishops storehouses, which are no longer filled with produce or animals or things people grow or harvest, are locked with tight keys so you must pass some carefully SLC quantified rules to obtain. There were no such restrictions outlined in the Doctrine and Covenants. In fact, it was not even required to be a member.

Bottom line, the doctrine of Consecration has been eliminated in the Church. The doctrine of Tithing has been corrupted beyond all measure, even to the grinding the faces of the poor. There are really hungry Church members who have paid their tithing rather than feeding their families. And the Church does not step in to help. Even while giving millions to the United Nations and BLM, or investing billions in Gamestop. God does not justify His Church in doing such gross evil to His vineyard.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:48 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
You are correct, they have many "fine sanctuaries" to build and maintain.
You can spin things any way you want to. But D&C 119 nevertheless says what it says about what tithing funds are to be used for.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 10:10 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:48 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
You are correct, they have many "fine sanctuaries" to build and maintain.
You can spin things any way you want to.
Ditto.

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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:48 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:23 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:17 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:15 am

In other words you aren't able to show me where the scriptures actually say what you’re claiming. Hear you loud and clear.
I already posted the scriptures previously. Your only response to them was "Nuh-uh!!!!! nOoOoO that's not what they say!!!!"
If those scriptures actually say what you’re claiming it would be easy to break them down and show me where they say what you're claiming. But you refuse to do that, even though I keep asking you to.

Instead you keeping insulting me and jumping up and down shouting "Agenda 2030, Agenda 2030!"

This speaks volumes.
Look, if the fact that our church has officially joined with the United Nations Multi-Faith Task Force for Sustainability in implementing Agenda 2030 is not a big deal for you, then nothing anyone says to you will make a difference in your understanding of the scriptures that have been put forward for you to consider.

If for whatever reason, in the future, that you start seeing the brethren get increasingly too cozy with satan's church, then perhaps the following scriptures may be of benefit to you:



ISAIAH 28
ISAIAH 56
JEREMIAH 23
EZEKIEL 13
EZEKIEL 33
MORMON 8
D&C 29
D&C 101
ETHER 8
D&C 101
D&C 103
D&C 84
D&C 63
MICAH 3
JST- MARK 9
2 NEPHI 28
3 NEPHI 16
JACOB 5
Still unwilling or unable to break a single scripture down while continuing to scream and shout "Agenda 2030, Agenda 2030!"

Sounds about right.

Joan7
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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Joan7 »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 10:10 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:48 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
You are correct, they have many "fine sanctuaries" to build and maintain.
You can spin things any way you want to. But D&C 119 nevertheless says what it says about what tithing funds are to be used for.
Section 119 was not in the Doctrine and Covenants until after Joseph was killed. It was published near the end of 1844. The heading indicates this supposed revelation was received in July 1838. It is funny that is exactly the time period where Joseph Smith had gotten to in his writing of the History of the Church. Almost like that entry was put in by someone other than Joseph.

With that, I introduce Exhibit A:
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

"A standing law unto them forever" sounds like God is ditching the Law of Consecration for the more powerful law of the Tithe.
Philosophies of men, mingled with scriptures.

Coincidentally, Brigham and his group, issued new rules exempting the leaders from paying tithes anymore at all. These things happened right after the murders of the three Smith brothers. (Samuel Smith was killed in July.)

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 10:17 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:48 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:23 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:17 am

I already posted the scriptures previously. Your only response to them was "Nuh-uh!!!!! nOoOoO that's not what they say!!!!"
If those scriptures actually say what you’re claiming it would be easy to break them down and show me where they say what you're claiming. But you refuse to do that, even though I keep asking you to.

Instead you keeping insulting me and jumping up and down shouting "Agenda 2030, Agenda 2030!"

This speaks volumes.
Look, if the fact that our church has officially joined with the United Nations Multi-Faith Task Force for Sustainability in implementing Agenda 2030 is not a big deal for you, then nothing anyone says to you will make a difference in your understanding of the scriptures that have been put forward for you to consider.

If for whatever reason, in the future, that you start seeing the brethren get increasingly too cozy with satan's church, then perhaps the following scriptures may be of benefit to you:



ISAIAH 28
ISAIAH 56
JEREMIAH 23
EZEKIEL 13
EZEKIEL 33
MORMON 8
D&C 29
D&C 101
ETHER 8
D&C 101
D&C 103
D&C 84
D&C 63
MICAH 3
JST- MARK 9
2 NEPHI 28
3 NEPHI 16
JACOB 5
Still unwilling or unable to break a single scripture down while continuing to scream and shout "Agenda 2030, Agenda 2030!"

Sounds about right.


Alright, well, I have time for a couple of these for now.

Let's review the Lord's parable of the Redemption of Zion in D&C 101.


43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the redemption of Zion.

44 A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set watchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the vineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a watchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his servants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take all the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the walls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, avenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

61 And this shall be my seal and blessing upon you—a faithful and wise steward in the midst of mine house, a ruler in my kingdom.

62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and after many days all things were fulfilled.

63 Again, verily I say unto you, I will show unto you wisdom in me concerning all the churches, inasmuch as they are willing to be guided in a right and proper way for their salvation—

64 That the work of the gathering together of my saints may continue, that I may build them up unto my name upon holy places; for the time of harvest is come, and my word must needs be fulfilled.

65 Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be;

66 While the tares shall be bound in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire.

67 Therefore, a commandment I give unto all the churches, that they shall continue to gather together unto the places which I have appointed.

68 Nevertheless, as I have said unto you in a former commandment, let not your gathering be in haste, nor by flight; but let all things be prepared before you.

69 And in order that all things be prepared before you, observe the commandment which I have given concerning these things



I think this parable is pretty straightforward. The foundations for the Kingdom of God on Earth (Literal, Physical, Zion) began to be established with the restoration of the Gospel in the last days... but... as we read those first servants, or prophets, did not keep the Lord's commandments in spending tithing money appropriately (stock market). Over time, they became slothful and did not watch for deception and the enemy came in and wreaked havoc on the church. The Lord then calls a new prophet, that actually behaves like your typical prophet in the scriptures, to go and make stuff happen.




Let's try Jeremiah 23 next.


CHAPTER 23

The remnants of Israel will be gathered in the last days—The Branch, who is the King (the Messiah), will reign in righteousness—False prophets who teach lies will be cursed.

1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.

2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.

3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord.

5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

9 ¶ Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness.

10 For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.

11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.

12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.

13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.

14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

15 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.

17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

20 The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

23 Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off?

24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.

25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.

26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.

29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.

33 ¶ And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the Lord? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the Lord.

34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the Lord, I will even punish that man and his house.

35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the Lord answered? and, What hath the Lord spoken?

36 And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man’s word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.

37 Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the Lord answered thee? and, What hath the Lord spoken?

38 But since ye say, The burden of the Lord; therefore thus saith the Lord; Because ye say this word, The burden of the Lord, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the Lord;

39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.



This, again, I believe to be pretty straightfoward. Let me know if you have any questions.




Let's do one more for good measure.


D&C 84


54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.

59 For shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land? Verily, I say unto you, Nay.


The Lord placed this church under condemnation (which has not been lifted) because we weren't following the doctrines contained in the Book of Mormon. What is one major area of the Book of Mormon we have treated lightly? Perhaps watching for secret combinations? Have our prophets and apostles done a good job on that front?

Atrasado
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Posts: 1773

Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Atrasado »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:39 am
CuriousThinker wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:47 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 7:28 am

I’ve never told you to listen to anything I say. I’d downright reject my opinions if I were you. Sure, the church does a few little things here and there to appease the Mormon Conscience. We’ve gone the rounds on this before, but the church has done so much spiritual and physical damage to the saints by requiring the saints to pay an incorrect tithe for their salvation so they can stay on the “covenant path.”
So spending a billion dollars last year to help the poor and the needy around the world in addition to all that is done at the local level is a "little thing?"

Surely you can't be serious?
If I remember correctly, that almost billion INCLUDES fast offerings and they are the biggest chunk and that stays within the congregation. We don't give much outside the Church. Individuals do, but the Church doesn't.
Whether or not the billion includes fast offering funds or not is really irrelevant. Taking care of the poor and the needy in a church of less than 17 million, would only take at most a few million.

The church spent a billion on caring for the poor and the needy world wide last year. And angry people accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Unbelievable.
True, a one-year 33x increase in charitable spending by the Church proves all the angry people wrong. Angry people like Ezekiel (see Ezekiel 34), Nephi (see 2nd Nephi 28), Isaiah (see Isaiah 1, 28, 56 and many more), Moroni (see Mormon 8), and Joseph Smith (see D&C 101). Aren't those prophets speaking God's words?

I'm not perfect, none of us are. We're all need to repent and turn unto God! We want God's will to be done and it's becoming apparent that this isn't the case.
Last edited by Atrasado on October 5th, 2022, 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hosh
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Posts: 836

Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Hosh »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:43 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:41 am
Whatever you say buddy. The church spends a billion last year in helping the poor and the needy and you turn around and accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Simply unbelievable.
Is less than 1% a "little"? BTW, they are doing damage control for hoarding money. They are doing this for the PR, not to care for the poor. If they wanted to care for the saints they would teach an honest tithe per the principles taught in the BoM.
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
Where is the verse about 1.5 billion dollar shopping malls?

LDS Watchman
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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

Hosh wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:54 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:43 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:41 am
Whatever you say buddy. The church spends a billion last year in helping the poor and the needy and you turn around and accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Simply unbelievable.
Is less than 1% a "little"? BTW, they are doing damage control for hoarding money. They are doing this for the PR, not to care for the poor. If they wanted to care for the saints they would teach an honest tithe per the principles taught in the BoM.
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
Where is the verse about 1.5 billion dollar shopping malls?
You tell me.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Hosh wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:54 pm Where is the verse about 1.5 billion dollar shopping malls?
I like the part where they say they have no paid clergy.

But shhhhhh... it's only paid out from their investments from the tithes of the saints.

Hosh
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Posts: 836

Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Hosh »

LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 1:49 pm
Hosh wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:54 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:43 am
Is less than 1% a "little"? BTW, they are doing damage control for hoarding money. They are doing this for the PR, not to care for the poor. If they wanted to care for the saints they would teach an honest tithe per the principles taught in the BoM.
The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
Where is the verse about 1.5 billion dollar shopping malls?
You tell me.
Right... because yeah it's not techniqually tithing that was used for city creek, it was the interest from the invested tithing money. Not the same thing at all.

Hosh
captain of 100
Posts: 836

Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by Hosh »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 2:10 pm
Hosh wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:54 pm Where is the verse about 1.5 billion dollar shopping malls?
I like the part where they say they have no paid clergy.

But shhhhhh... it's only paid out from their investments from the tithes of the saints.
You beat me to the punch!

LDS Watchman
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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

Atrasado wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:42 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:39 am
CuriousThinker wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:47 am
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 8:00 am

So spending a billion dollars last year to help the poor and the needy around the world in addition to all that is done at the local level is a "little thing?"

Surely you can't be serious?
If I remember correctly, that almost billion INCLUDES fast offerings and they are the biggest chunk and that stays within the congregation. We don't give much outside the Church. Individuals do, but the Church doesn't.
Whether or not the billion includes fast offering funds or not is really irrelevant. Taking care of the poor and the needy in a church of less than 17 million, would only take at most a few million.

The church spent a billion on caring for the poor and the needy world wide last year. And angry people accuse them of grinding the faces of the poor. Unbelievable.
True, a one year 33x increase in charitable donations proves all the angry people wrong. Angry people like Ezekiel (see Ezekiel 34), Nephi (see 2nd Nephi 28), Isaiah (see Isaiah 1, 28, 56 and many more), Moroni (see Mormon 8), and Joseph Smith (see D&C 101). Aren't those prophets speaking God's words?

I'm not perfect, none of us are. We're all need to repent and turn unto God! We want God's will to be done and it's becoming apparent that this isn't the case.
That's the thing, though. None of the scriptures you referenced actually say that the leaders of the church today are grinding the faces of the poor. You can try to spin them so they support this, but none of them actually say it. In fact most of the scriptures you referenced have nothing to do with not caring for the poor at all, so it's odd that you would reference these.
Last edited by LDS Watchman on October 4th, 2022, 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LDS Watchman
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Re: General Conference October 2022 - Rumors, Predictions, Live Thread, and Recap

Post by LDS Watchman »

Hosh wrote: October 4th, 2022, 3:05 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 1:49 pm
Hosh wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:54 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:46 am

The church has a lot of other legitimate expenditures besides caring for the poor and the needy. Please read D&C 119 again for what tithing money is supposed to be primarily used for.
Where is the verse about 1.5 billion dollar shopping malls?
You tell me.
Right... because yeah it's not techniqually tithing that was used for city creek, it was the interest from the invested tithing money. Not the same thing at all.
Just so we're clear, I'm not defending the church building the City Creek mall, so I'm not sure what's happening here.

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