Will Romney run as an independent in 2024?

[tmac]

I have never been able to understand how and why most mainstream Republicans can't seem to move past Trump. He is not, never was, and never will be any kind of real conservative.

Perhaps Trump’s biggest lasting legacy, that should never be underestimated or underappreciated, is on the issue of abortion. It is pretty amazing that a man with his kind of perceived morals would make such a difference on that issue -- probably more than any other president in history. But a good share of that was simply a result of a political deal (art of the deal?) with the Susan B. Anthony Society -- but as they will readily admit, not only did he keep his commitments and deliver under the terms of the deal, he actually over-delivered.

Although Trump does have some good qualities, and did some good, including for the economy, etc., and actually delivered on many of his campaign promises, once the COVID scamdemic hit he essentially abdicated all real leadership. The Left weaponized the pandemic to take him down, and he essentially became completely impotent. And his desperate antics after the election and ever since then have been pathetic. Since then he has sought to blame anyone and everyone else for everything that has happened, and has taken zero personal responsibility for anything.

Rregardless of whatever good Trump did, and I do agree, there was quite a bit, he was not, is not, and ultimately will not be any kind of savior, and it has long since been time to move on, and move beyond Trump. The biggest thing Trump's ongoing efforts to influence Republican politics speaks to is his out-sized ego. And the longer the Republican Party stays its current course, and clings to Trump and his agenda(s), the bigger trouble it is going to have in the long run. At this point, two years later, it is way past time to move on — move past the Trump personality parade, and attempt to stick with some real principles.

But Jason is right, it's just a bunch of political theater and bread and circuses.

[BuriedTartaria]

I have never been able to understand how and why most mainstream Republicans can't seem to move past Trump. He is not, never was, and never will be any kind of real conservative.

A lot of it is the persecution he has experienced, it makes people want to stand with him. The left only made him harder to let go of due to their 24-7 seething rage towards him they incessantly broadcast to the world.

"January 6th! Voters care more about a 'light recession' than January 6th!!!!"
"threat to OUR democracy!"

Michael Moore (commenting on 2016) also put it well; "a millionaire gets the same number of votes as the person without a job; 1. And there's more of the former middle-class than there are in the millionaire class. So on November 8th, the dispossessed will walk into the voting booth, be handed a ballot, close the curtain and take that lever, or felt pen or touch screen, and put a big X in the box by the name of the man who has threatened to upend and overturn the very system that has ruined their lives; Donald J. Trump. They see that the elites who ruined their lives hate Trump. Corporate America hates Trump. Wallstreet hates Trump. The career politicians hate Trump. The media hates Trump. The enemy of my enemy is who I'm voting for on November 8th..... Trump's election is going to be the biggest "**** you" ever recorded in human history and it will feel good"'

When you actually stand for something, you will be viewed as a leader. You will develop a following. That happened for Trump. Never-Trumper Republicans, moderates, liberals, progressives, you made Trump.

I'm not entirely against Trump fading away. I think his appeal probably piqued and it won't return to its previous height (but I could be wrong). I'm not entirely sold on him either way. I think he could be a reckoning from God. All of politics could be a theater too. I'm just commenting on your statement.


Republicans/conservative politicians? Religious leaders and institutions? You can see there was a loyal audience who would have stood with you if you had but picked up the sword.

[Jamescm]

I'm not concerned with Romney, for two reasons. First, if Trump runs, Romney isn't going to spoil him enough to keep him from winning. Second is that it doesn't matter until we somehow fix things. 2020 was a fraud, that's obvious to anyone honest and paying attention. Look at public enthusiasm, look at the bellwether counties, look at where Biden broke patterns pulling ahead, look at last-minute mail and ballot box voting results, look at where the house and senate went.

I'm still voting in 2024, because the more people vote and the more they do it in-person, on election day, the harder it seems to be to hide the cheating-but cheat they still shall, and they will probably still get away with it.

[lundbaek]

Yes, I too believe the vote cheaters will cheat this November and get away with it. Of course I hope I am wrong, but certainly here in Arizona, the voting demographics continue to swing in favour of the democrats.

[larsenb]

I have never been able to understand how and why most mainstream Republicans can't seem to move past Trump. He is not, never was, and never will be any kind of real conservative.

Perhaps Trump’s biggest lasting legacy, that should never be underestimated or underappreciated, is on the issue of abortion. It is pretty amazing that a man with his kind of perceived morals would make such a difference on that issue -- probably more than any other president in history. But a good share of that was simply a result of a political deal (art of the deal?) with the Susan B. Anthony Society -- but as they will readily admit, not only did he keep his commitments and deliver under the terms of the deal, he actually over-delivered.

Although Trump does have some good qualities, and did some good, including for the economy, etc., and actually delivered on many of his campaign promises, once the COVID scamdemic hit he essentially abdicated all real leadership. The Left weaponized the pandemic to take him down, and he essentially became completely impotent. And his desperate antics after the election and ever since then have been pathetic. Since then he has sought to blame anyone and everyone else for everything that has happened, and has taken zero personal responsibility for anything.

Rregardless of whatever good Trump did, and I do agree, there was quite a bit, he was not, is not, and ultimately will not be any kind of savior, and it has long since been time to move on, and move beyond Trump. The biggest thing Trump's ongoing efforts to influence Republican politics speaks to is his out-sized ego. And the longer the Republican Party stays its current course, and clings to Trump and his agenda(s), the bigger trouble it is going to have in the long run. At this point, two years later, it is way past time to move on — move past the Trump personality parade, and attempt to stick with some real principles.

But Jason is right, it's just a bunch of political theater and bread and circuses.

Trump tapped into and ran with, a large group of people in this country who were and still are fed up with how things are going with regard to the economy, government spending, wars, control of the border, eroding Constitutional restraints, etc., etc., much of it based on real principles, and Constitutional/Conservative ones, at that.

One of the really good things he did was to wake even more people up to these issues.

And one of the attractive traits for many people in this group, was that Trump would stand up to bullying and giving as good or better than he got, mainly through his twitter feeds (and granted, some of this was way over-the top). This activity, more than anything else, supported the left's portrayal of the man being possessed with an "out-sized ego". Balancing this propensity to defend himself, however, was the fact that DT was/is actually quite personable and can work with people to get things done. An interesting mix.

But lot's of luck with "moving past the Trump personality parade" and sticking to "some real principles". People with real principles have been running for the Presidency for decades via independent parties, but have never made a dent in actually achieving their goal. It's more a function of the mentality of too many people in this country coupled with the power the left has (deep state; owning the MSM, etc.; their use of seemingly altruistic issues of 'justice', etc.).

Aside from the mistakes DT made, and the cul-de-sacs he allowed himself to be trapped in, he was a strong leader and was challenging the PTB in a significant way . . . hence, the non-stop attacks on the man for any conceivable issue and on every front.

Unless you find a fairly strong leader who knows how to work people and the system and also understands the issues of principle you mention, you're spitting into the wind, in my strongly held view.

[larsenb]

Yes, I too believe the vote cheaters will cheat this November and get away with it. Of course I hope I am wrong, but certainly here in Arizona, the voting demographics continue to swing in favour of the democrats.

The Maricopa County vote/election audit clearly showed massive fraud. Is anything substantive being done to follow through on this audit and over-turn the 2020 election?

[lundbaek]

Yes, I too believe the vote cheaters will cheat this November and get away with it. Of course I hope I am wrong, but certainly here in Arizona, the voting demographics continue to swing in favour of the democrats.

The Maricopa County vote/election audit clearly showed massive fraud. Is anything substantive being done to follow through on this audit and over-turn the 2020 election?

Just now a full-court-press in on in Arizona to get as many republicans as possible (and not just RINOs) into legislative and other government offices. I believe that if that effort fails, the democrats will walk all over us, and those who are accused of participating in the fraud will surely skate. The cheating in Maricopa County was rampant and obvious, but the democrats (and even some RINOs) who are in positions to do so are frustrating all efforts to get indictments against the perps.

[larsenb]

Yes, I too believe the vote cheaters will cheat this November and get away with it. Of course I hope I am wrong, but certainly here in Arizona, the voting demographics continue to swing in favour of the democrats.

The Maricopa County vote/election audit clearly showed massive fraud. Is anything substantive being done to follow through on this audit and over-turn the 2020 election?

Just now a full-court-press in on in Arizona to get as many republicans as possible (and not just RINOs) into legislative and other government offices. I believe that if that effort fails, the democrats will walk all over us, and those who are accused of participating in the fraud will surely skate. The cheating in Maricopa County was rampant and obvious, but the democrats (and even some RINOs) who are in positions to do so are frustrating all efforts to get indictments against the perps.

From this, it would seem the Repubs currently don't have the strength of numbers in the Arizona Senate/'House' to overturn the election, based on the Maricopa audit. I would have thought the Ariz. Attorney General would have some say about all this. Sad day. Sure hope they can ramp up their numbers, despite ongoing voter fraud.

[tmac]

What evidence is there that McMullin was "Fully endorsed by the 15"?

Publicly or privately? Clearly, they didn’t endorse anyone publicly. We’re dealing here with circumstantial evidences. But we know that the Uchtdorf family supported Biden. How many do you think supported Trump? I venture to say not many. I think that if a person were to take the time to connect all the circumstantial evidence dots, one would find that a majority of the Q15 quietly supported either Biden or McMullin. Endorsement is obviously an overstatement, but I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if a majority of Q15 didn’t quietly support McMullin. If you followed the election results in Utah, I don’t think it requires rocket science to reach that conclusion.

As a follow-up to my previous post about the Church’s support for McMullin, after paying close attention to KSL and DesNews’ recent treatment of the race between McMullin and Lee, I would say McMullin has full-on tacit endorsement by the Church. Just like the MSM has always used all resources at its disposal to campaign for Biden and Obama, so is the Church fully utilizing its media resources to campaign for McMullin.

With Lee’s family history, background, conservative values, political track record, etc., I don’t see how he could not feel just like I do, which is that this isn’t the same Church I grew up in, as it uses all resources at its disposal to throw him under the bus.