Latest from the mission field

[HereWeGo]

It would not surprise me if the leadership made a play to lure them back by liberalizing the doctrines and liturgies. I don't think it will end well.

I agree; it won't end well. It will retain few of the younger target audience and lose many of the middle age+ people.

[Dusty Wanderer]

Homosexuality should disqualify you from missionary service just like the list of all the other sins that do.

Can you imagine being seduced, as a missionary, by your own companion?

Go on a mission, find your eternal queer companion!

That is actually happening, right now, today. Not just missions, but FSY, girls’ camps, young men’s activities, queer proms at Utah high schools.......Mormon youth don’t need those queer dating apps, they have it all right in front of them. Currently Utah is probably the best place for queer LDS to meet like-minded life companions.

It is certainly one of the best places for like-minded individuals. All the way back in 2015 Salt Lake City had already been named the #7 "gayest" city (out of the 10 most LGBTQ-friendly US cities). Judging by their marketing campaign, they're not closeting their desire to crack into a top 3 position.

My original post on this here: viewtopic.php?p=1257744#p1257744

[Subcomandante]

Looking at it from a personal point of view, my wife and I and our combined siblings produced 3 missionaries from among us, and at one time was 9 active church members. Now only 2 are active (of course those 2 are former missionaries).
Combined we all have 10 children who are or will soon be at missionary age, but have only produced 1 missionary (he arrived home earlier this year, he served a full mission). He will be the only one, the rest have already passed or shown zero interest.

In my city we had 2 wards, now they have collapsed them into a single ward recently.

From what I've seen, the Millenials aren't terribly interested in religion, particularly ones with more conservative or traditional-based doctrines and liturgies like Mormonism. It would not surprise me if the leadership made a play to lure them back by liberalizing the doctrines and liturgies. I don't think it will end well.

I'm a Millennial myself and I can definitely see this trend against organized religion (though not against spirituality per sé). Many are wandering through different faith structures. Gen Z is even more against organized religion, and those are the ones that are serving missions right now (the youngest Millennial is now 27).

[spiritMan]

Who in the world could have predicted this . . .
------------------------
Jacob Guy shared a post.
18h ·
Hey friends! I posted this on my personal page and figured I'd share it here, too, in hopes of helping someone who might be struggling
For me, I'm a faithful and active member of the church, and I'm also actively dating other men. I had a boyfriend earlier this year. I also worked as an fsy counselor, and subbed as a seminary teacher. It's a bit of a conundrum with not a lot of answers and not a lot of hope- and that's probably a familiar tune to many people here
I've really grown close to this song. I am still a child of God. Being LGBTQ doesn't change that. And as I trust Him, I really believe He'll lead me, guide me, and walk beside me. I really believe He'll do the same for you too
To any who are struggling- I'm rooting for you, and cheering for you, and to my very core I believe God is, as well. You aren't alone. And as a child of Heavenly Parents, you are entitled to their help

[spiritMan]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

[Lineman1012]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

So many thoughts after reading this.

The church has opened its arms to “unnatural affection “. 100% Satan’s plan that destroys Father’s plan of creation.

Temple sealings of gays (abomination of desolation) are just around the corner.

How soon until the church is celebrating pedophiles as hero’s?

What happened to expressing love and forgiveness and then, “ go and sin no more”?

[h_p]

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

And everybody who still insists on believing what the church used to teach just a few decades ago are the haters who need to repent.

[Chip]

Let's all meet at a gay bar and be our authentic selves. Just because.

[4Joshua8]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

One wonders if Elder Renlund would be there for his friend's act of murder to show support and love. After all, it's not Renlund's decision to murder, it's his friend's, and Renlund wants to be there for his friend to show support and love.

If he were really a friend to this person, he would use his influence to convince them to not get married and to be chaste and to wait on the Lord to heal wounds, in this life or afterwards.

[4Joshua8]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

One wonders if Elder Renlund would be there for his friend's act of murder to show support and love. After all, it's not Renlund's decision to murder, it's his friend's, and Renlund wants to be there for his friend to show support and love.

If he were really a friend to this person, he would use his influence to convince them to not get married and to be chaste and to wait on the Lord to heal wounds, in this life or afterwards.

Additionally one wonders if Elder Renlund were at Soddom, if he would have attended their weddings and refused to leave and been killed during the destruction for showing love and support for his friends in their acts of utter abomination.

[technomagus]

People are forgetting what jesus himself said.
Matthew 5:27-30

27 “You have heard that it was said [a]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to [c]sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

The SAME applies to whoever is a man that looks at another man with lust for him has already committed adultery with him in his heart.
But here's the rub. Crossing the boundry into homosexuality is one step further. It's removing yourself from any chance of fulfulling your role as a man and as a father. You are removing yourself from your eternal destiny and purpose. If a man has sex with a woman outside of marriage and then repents this is one thing. Acceptance of his identity as a homosexual and having homosexuual relations then repenting is a much further road to come back from. I don't think there are very many that ever can.
There are DEGREES OF SIN. This needs to be made clear.

[HVDC]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

The specialness is overwhelming.

Sir H

[Dusty Wanderer]

"He helped me see that my authenticity as a gay missionary was and is one of the many identities that make up my collective whole. The center of that whole, however, is not that I am gay"
...

All this talk about many identities, they/them pronouns, etc, makes me think they're possessed... or maybe experiencing some type of psychosis.

[DesertWonderer2]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

IF this is what E Renlund said, then he is dead wrong.

[tribrac]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

Just curious how many of you have ever had a personal conversation with a member of 12?

How about multiple personal meetings?

Lunch with several GA's?

I don't need to ask, I know the answer.

The few people I met who has talked with them on a personal level described them as cold, uninterested, impersonal. But they were straight, lifelong, active members, or church employees.

[InfoWarrior82]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

So many thoughts after reading this.

The church has opened its arms to “unnatural affection “. 100% Satan’s plan that destroys Father’s plan of creation.

Temple sealings of gays (abomination of desolation) are just around the corner.

How soon until the church is celebrating pedophiles as hero’s?

What happened to expressing love and forgiveness and then, “ go and sin no more”?

The Renlund's first questions out of the gates should have been something like "So how are you doing? Do you find it difficult to keep Heavenly Father's commandment to not act on your same sex attraction when the whole world is telling you that it's not a sin? What things do you find helpful in order for you to remain chaste?"

[spiritMan]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

IF this is what E Renlund said, then he is dead wrong.

At this point, I'm not sure if I care if what is reported is accurate or not.

If you are so ignorant as to what is going to be said about your conversation with someone who openly advocates for sin . . .well you deserve what you get.

No one would have ever claimed that Jesus ate with murders and those murderers then proclaimed that Jesus told them it was cool to lust after murdering other people . . .as long as they didn't actually murder someone. They couldn't claim that because Christ's words were the opposite-not only don't murder, don't even be angry.

These guys preach be angry all your want . ..just don't murder.

[spiritMan]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

Just curious how many of you have ever had a personal conversation with a member of 12?

How about multiple personal meetings?

Lunch with several GA's?

I don't need to ask, I know the answer.

The few people I met who has talked with them on a personal level described them as cold, uninterested, impersonal. But they were straight, lifelong, active members, or church employees.

Oh no, the queers are super special, awesome, heroic people. They get all the best treats, they get all the best seats in the house, everyone bends over backwards b/c they are so awesome, doing god's work.

You and I . . .meh we are unclean heathens who need to repent and learn that what God REALLY wants us to do is treat the queers as super-human heroes who are specially placed here on earth to help us learn how to love better.

[spiritMan]

"He helped me see that my authenticity as a gay missionary was and is one of the many identities that make up my collective whole. The center of that whole, however, is not that I am gay"
...

All this talk about many identities, they/them pronouns, etc, makes me think they're possessed... or maybe experiencing some type of psychosis.

They are. They are worshipping other false gods, devils and demons and are possessed.

[spiritMan]

yeah !!!!

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/ ... e-renlunds

I had the opportunity to meet Elder & Sister Renlund. We gathered in his office at the Church Administration building and they presented me a gift, a book written by both of them titled The Melchizedek Priesthood: Understanding the Doctrine, Living the Principles.

They were cute. Elder Renlund said something, then his wife didn’t exactly correct him, but pointed out his words could mean this or that. I commented it’s obvious she’s a talented lawyer. She looked amused and he said it’s true.

Sister Renlund apologized and said we were going to eat in a little cafeteria, and the food is fine but nothing to write home about. It’s a place we can go without being constantly interrupted. I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Are we about to eat in the Church Administration cafeteria? The most exclusive spot in town?!!” What I said was, “It doesn’t matter so much where we eat as much as the company we’re with.”

As we walked into the cafeteria, Elder Gong was walking out. During the course of the meal, several other people sat down at other tables and ate, including Elder Ballard, I think Elder Rasband (I was seeing the back of him, so can’t be sure), and Elder Oaks.

When we sat down, I reminded them that when we met several years ago in Brandon, Florida, we took a picture together and the stake president called out, “Every General Authority who takes a picture with David offers to take him to lunch when he goes to Utah.” And here we are, having lunch! We laughed at that.

I noted that when I first met Elder Renlund and disclosed that I’m gay, his immediate response was “Same-sex attraction isn’t a sin, but bullying people over it is.” This reply was unexpected but meaningful to me because it indicated you understand that is part of the experience. People make comments and do things that convey very rejecting messages. They may or may not intend it that way, but it’s this one, and that one, and another one. It may seem like no big deal to them, but I’m the one receiving such messages over and over and over.

He responded that we are to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge.

Sister Renlund said it’s true for many people, including those who are single and those who are disabled. We need to love and not judge.

I brought up the panel I’m going to be on at the Affirmation conference. Parents of LGBTQ children can ask questions to those of us on the panel. I’m thinking that what I’d like to convey is these are your children, love them. The children are the ones who have to make difficult choices and to live with the consequences. Parents shouldn’t make their relationship & love another tough choice. The Renlunds agreed.

Elder Renlund added that too often parents think they have to choose between their LGBT child or their church. So often they think of their choices as a binary, either choice A or choice B. Sister Renlund stated there’s usually a choice C if they will look for it, and choice C is always the right choice. Elder Renlund commented that limiting our vision to A or B presents a false dichotomy, we can do both.

“If a parent has a gay child who is getting married, some church members think they can’t go to that wedding. No, that’s wrong. You go and support your children, be there for the important milestones in their life.”

I replied, “To me, it would be like if a friend invited me to the christening of their child. Even though Mormon teaches strongly against this, that’s my belief, not theirs. I can be there to show I love and support them in this important moment for this family. They are making the best choices for themselves, and I make different choices for my life, but that doesn’t mean we can’t love and support each other.”

Elder Renlund concurred. “That’s exactly right. We have many non-member friends and when they come to Salt Lake City, we take them to a little restaurant that serves wine so that our friends can choose to have some with dinner. Our choice is not to have wine. I don’t lecture them about their choice to drink wine. I accept it is their choice and I get to make my choice.

I can go to a gay marriage to show I love and support them. I’m not there to participate in that choice, I’m not marrying a man, he is. I am going to show up as my authentic self and I expect them to be their authentic self. I prefer to meet with people who are being authentic and not pretending to be someone they aren’t.”

Lunch went on and I asked Sister Renlund if she usually travels with her husband when he goes on an assignment. Indeed she does. Elder Renlund stated that he likes having her speak. If it’s a priesthood leadership meeting of only men, then she probably won’t, but otherwise he wants her to speak. They are aware of how it looks for it to be mostly men speaking at a meeting and they try to counter that. If the meeting is to mostly or only women, then he may choose not to speak and let’s her do the talking for both of them. On a more practical matter, a husband & wife traveling together helps custom officials believe he isn’t there for business activities, which they will likely suspect if he were showing up alone dressed in a suit despite what his visa indicates.

I honestly don’t remember what caused Elder Renlund to say this, we probably were talking about queer youth who reach out to me, but I will always remember him pausing, looking right at me, and proclaiming, “You’re a hero.” I’m sure I blushed at that comment, it feels over the top, I was surprised he would say that. I’m just an ordinary gay guy trying his best to make things work in this space.

As lunch was winding down, I asked if I could share about our meeting and discussion on my blog, it’s a place where I write & share about my feelings, experiences, thoughts, and frustrations as a gay member of this church. They said to please do.

Sister Renlund suggested we should take a picture to put with the blog post.

image
They expressed that they really enjoyed their time with me and invited me to get together again when I come to Utah.

I sent a thank you note to the secretary who set this up and she responded, “Elder and Sister Renlund each gave glowing positive reports of your lunch together. I think it is safe they are in your fan club.”

I’ve been in their fan club since the first time I met them in 2018.

IF this is what E Renlund said, then he is dead wrong.

It is what the Church teaches. Everything Renlund said is backed up by the Church Handbook and the Church website. He said nothing that is out of step with current Church doctrine.

[Mamabear]

This is not the first story I’ve read like this.
I wonder if more leaders will extend calls to ym and yw because missionary numbers are declining. Be aware if you do not want your children reeled in.

“My 18yo daughter got a mission call from her Bishop during tithing settlement. He said the spirit whispered this to him and told him it was true. She’s a non-believing, coffee drinking, bad @#$ atheist so she said no.

Over the last year or so my daughter has had her own awakening and no longer believes in TSCC or its teachings. It’s been amazing seeing her explore her beliefs and shed so much of the damaging teachings she grew up with (and to be honest that I promoted early on).

She and her very TBM mom recently moved to another state so Bad @#$ Daughter took this as an opportunity to make a clean break since she didn’t have any connections to this new ward. It hasn’t quite worked out that way. They’ve been pressing her pretty hard to attend. Visits from RS pres, sister missionaries who just happened to be in the area, etc, etc. You all know the drill. So when she got a call to meet with the Bishop for tithing settlement she decided to go so she could make it clear once and for all that she’s done and doesn’t want anymore contact. What was supposed to be a 15 minute thing turned into nearly an hour of him trying to manipulate her into coming back. He asked her to become a full tithe payer, read the BoM (again), accept multiple callings, fast and pray, stay away from non-church approved materials, blah, blah, blah. She patiently declined and just kept saying no. At one point he even handed her a BoM. She just slid it back across the desk and said, “I’ve already read this and have like three of them back at the house. You can keep it.”

Finally he said he had received a revelation from God that he needed to start extending mission callings to people in the ward. He said that when he saw her walk into church that first time several months ago (she was helping her mom teach a lesson or something) the spirit whispered to him that my little Bad @#$ Daughter was the one he was supposed to call on a mission!

After the absurdity of the entire meeting this was too much for her and she started laughing. She composed herself and said, “No. That’s not going to happen.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... e_regular/

[Mamabear]

Elder Pearson, the same GA that said young men should not pray if they should serve missions, wants to be a communist book banner for the missionaries too.

867C5FEF-FD1B-4E1C-8DA3-5E09960C0EA0.jpeg (280.38 KiB) Viewed 298 times

[Artaxerxes]

Elder Pearson, the same GA that said young men should not pray if they should serve missions, wants to be a communist book banner for the missionaries too.

867C5FEF-FD1B-4E1C-8DA3-5E09960C0EA0.jpeg

There has always been a very short list of approved books for missionaries. Nothing has changed.

[Mamabear]

Elder Pearson, the same GA that said young men should not pray if they should serve missions, wants to be a communist book banner for the missionaries too.

867C5FEF-FD1B-4E1C-8DA3-5E09960C0EA0.jpeg

There has always been a very short list of approved books for missionaries. Nothing has changed.

You’re right. And luckily most of them don’t listen.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Elder Pearson, the same GA that said young men should not pray if they should serve missions, wants to be a communist book banner for the missionaries too.

867C5FEF-FD1B-4E1C-8DA3-5E09960C0EA0.jpeg

Oh, I had a good laugh at that one. I have a few documentaries they could watch.