LDS Freedom Forum

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:54 pm

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:05 am The authority to perform those doesn't exist in other churches.

Is there any proof for that assertion?

Proof? No more than there is about Christianity in general. Evidence? Sure.

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:22 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:54 pm

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:05 am The authority to perform those doesn't exist in other churches.

Is there any proof for that assertion?

Proof? No more than there is about Christianity in general. Evidence? Sure.

Perhaps evidence was a better word for me to use. So if you believe you have evidence, then please go right ahead and show me.

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:31 pm

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:22 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:54 pm

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:05 am The authority to perform those doesn't exist in other churches.

Is there any proof for that assertion?

Proof? No more than there is about Christianity in general. Evidence? Sure.

Perhaps evidence was a better word for me to use. So if you believe you have evidence, then please go right ahead and show me.

I'll allow you to show yourself.

1. Make a list of all churches that believe in Christ, claim to have direct authority from Christ, and perform saving ordinances by authority. It's a short list, so it shouldn't be hard.
2. Compare that list with biblical scriptures like 2 Thessalonians 2.
3. Make a list of all remaining churches who claim direct authority and align with what you find in the Bible.

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:40 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:31 pm

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:22 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:54 pm

Is there any proof for that assertion?

Proof? No more than there is about Christianity in general. Evidence? Sure.

Perhaps evidence was a better word for me to use. So if you believe you have evidence, then please go right ahead and show me.

I'll allow you to show yourself.

1. Make a list of all churches that believe in Christ, claim to have direct authority from Christ, and perform saving ordinances by authority. It's a short list, so it shouldn't be hard.
2. Compare that list with biblical scriptures like 2 Thessalonians 2.
3. Make a list of all remaining churches who claim direct authority and align with what you find in the Bible.

I think this is what is called "deflection" and "evasion".

Either provide some evidence or don't make such claims.

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:40 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:31 pm

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:22 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 2:54 pm

Is there any proof for that assertion?

Proof? No more than there is about Christianity in general. Evidence? Sure.

Perhaps evidence was a better word for me to use. So if you believe you have evidence, then please go right ahead and show me.

I'll allow you to show yourself.

1. Make a list of all churches that believe in Christ, claim to have direct authority from Christ, and perform saving ordinances by authority. It's a short list, so it shouldn't be hard.
2. Compare that list with biblical scriptures like 2 Thessalonians 2.
3. Make a list of all remaining churches who claim direct authority and align with what you find in the Bible.

All the proof that is needed is in these three scriptures:

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” (JS-History)

29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually (D&C 1)

4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (D&C 115)

And even though these three scriptures are all that is needed, there are many, many more proofs. The D&C, Book of Mormon, and teachings of Joseph Smith are full of them.

Ah, I think we forgot D&C 84.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:05 pm Ah, I think we forgot D&C 84.

No we sure didn't. We just don't care about the completely bogus spin that people with an ax to grind against the church (but never Joseph Smith) put on it.

Maybe we should include some of what Christ taught in 3 Nephi. Or perhaps Nephi, son of Lehi. He had some really interesting things to say about our day.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:36 pm Maybe we should include some of what Christ taught in 3 Nephi. Or perhaps Nephi, son of Lehi. He had some really interesting things to say about our day.

Yeah, let's talk about what Christ taught in 3rd Nephi.

Let's begin with the part where he quoted Malachi 3 word for word, which tells us that the whole nation (poor and all) are to pay tithing and put the Lord to the test in order to receive the promised outpouring of blessings from the windows of heaven.

Or how about Jacob 5 in the Book of Mormon where it talks about the laborers being sent out for the last time to prune the Lord's vineyard and then compare that to the revelations and teachings of Joseph which repeatedly tell us that this began in 1830.

Or where the Book of Mormon tells us about the Lord's church and kingdom being restored for the last time in the last days and then compare that to the revelations and teachings of Joseph Smith which say that this is referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Maybe we could talk about Jacob 5, there’s some fun stuff in there.

Oh, I almost forgot, Mormon 8, such a gem.

And that time Moroni talked about talents and such in Ether 12. Good times.

And then another time when he talked about awakening to our awful situation. I’m so glad our PSRs are awakening us to this in our day and age. We would surely be lost if we didn’t know we could trust our government. Or make claims that God gave us mask and the vaccine.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:45 pm Maybe we could talk about Jacob 5, there’s some fun stuff in there.

Yeah Jacob 5 is great. It tells us all about how the church was restored for the last time and the laborers sent out to prune the vineyard for the last time beginning in 1830.

Let's talk all about that.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:46 pm Oh, I almost forgot, Mormon 8, such a gem.

Yup, that one's great, too. Tells us all about how apostate Christianity was prior to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the restoration of the fulness of the gospel in the 1830s and 1840s.

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:47 pm It tells us all about hoe the church..

I think you added an extra “e” to that word. I can’t quite put my finger on it. Something about mother of abominations. Yep, 1 Nephi 14, got that covered as well.

The spin doctor is in the house boys and girls.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:52 pm The spin doctor is in the house boys and girls.

Yeah because comparing the Book of Mormon to the revelations in the D&C and teachings of Joseph Smith constitutes being a "spin doctor" while rejecting the revelations in the D&C and teachings of Joseph Smith and putting your own personal spin on what the Book of Mormon says isn't.

Maybe in the twilight zone that's true. But not in reality.

get a room you two!

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:51 pm

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:47 pm It tells us all about hoe the church..

I think you added an extra “e” to that word. I can’t quite put my finger on it. Something about mother of abominations. Yep, 1 Nephi 14, got that covered as well.

Trying to make me and offender for a word again.

abijah wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:57 pm get a room you two!

Ok, I deleted my last response… I just couldn’t bring myself to leave something like that on a public forum.

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:57 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:51 pm

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:47 pm It tells us all about hoe the church..

I think you added an extra “e” to that word. I can’t quite put my finger on it. Something about mother of abominations. Yep, 1 Nephi 14, got that covered as well.

Trying to make me and offender for a word again.

Oh, no, not you. I found the analogy quite accurate. What do you expect when the Bride has an affair with Babylon?

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 10:32 pm

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:57 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:51 pm

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:47 pm It tells us all about hoe the church..

I think you added an extra “e” to that word. I can’t quite put my finger on it. Something about mother of abominations. Yep, 1 Nephi 14, got that covered as well.

Trying to make me and offender for a word again.

Oh, no, not you. I found the analogy quite accurate. What do you expect when the Bride has an affair with Babylon?

Typo equals Analogy now and we'll just ignore what Jacob 5 and the D&C say about the servants being sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Simply fascinating.

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 10:39 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 10:32 pm

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:57 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:51 pm

I think you added an extra “e” to that word. I can’t quite put my finger on it. Something about mother of abominations. Yep, 1 Nephi 14, got that covered as well.

Trying to make me and offender for a word again.

Oh, no, not you. I found the analogy quite accurate. What do you expect when the Bride has an affair with Babylon?

Typo equals Analogy now and we'll just ignore what Jacob 5 and the D&C say about the servants being sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Simply fascinating.

Oh, seems we've already forgotten what both Nephi and Christ said about the commencement of the "work of the Father" in gathering his children. Post-tribs my friend. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2022, 2:10 am

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 10:39 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 10:32 pm

LDS Watchman wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 9:57 pm

Trying to make me and offender for a word again.

Oh, no, not you. I found the analogy quite accurate. What do you expect when the Bride has an affair with Babylon?

Typo equals Analogy now and we'll just ignore what Jacob 5 and the D&C say about the servants being sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Simply fascinating.

Oh, seems we've already forgotten what both Nephi and Christ said about the commencement of the "work of the Father" in gathering his children. Post-tribs my friend. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

There's more to come, but that doesn't change the fact that Jacob 5 and the D&C say that the servants were sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Nor does it change the fact that the D&C and teachings of Joseph Smith say that the Lord's one and only true church and kingdom in the last days was restored in 1830 as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that it would role forth until it fills the whole earth and that no unhallowed hand can stop it.