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Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 3:55 pm
by abijah
plenty are open about it on social media ----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=priVzyS ... .be&t=1685

which is where the culture is being created (which then in turn ultimately shapes church culture/policy, apparently)

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 4:15 pm
by HVDC
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:40 pm
HVDC wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 1:51 pm Saw a man in make up attending Stake conference once. Lots of people apparently knew him and were very welcoming. This was in California though and it was about 10 years ago.

I was not as welcomed as I had facial hair and that particular Stake was against that sort of thing.

If they could only see me now.

LOL

Sir H
So you either grew out the beard.... or..... ;)
Much worse.

But I kinda like the under the eye thing.

Sir H

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 4:36 pm
by h_p
Lizzy60 wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:31 pm
BenMcCrea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:45 pm Tom Christofferson has given up the gay life. He no longer dances around the hairy pole.
He’s sort of in-between now....

“ On December 8, 2021 Tom Christofferson posted on Facebook that he was going to begin dating men while maintaining the same dating standards that heterosexual Latter-day Saint couples follow.”
*some* heterosexual dating standards. Ie, heterosexual men only date women. But I'm sure that's not one of the rules he had in mind. :-)

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 4:46 pm
by spiritMan
BenMcCrea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:45 pm Tom Christofferson has given up the gay life. He no longer dances around the hairy pole.
Incorrect; he recently had a post where he discusses that he is now back to dating dudes.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 4:46 pm
by Niemand
There is a girl in our ward I've suspected was lesbian for a while now. Now she makes a big scene of holding hands with another girl, has cut her hair stereotypically short and wears a pinstripe trouser suit. People are ignoring the hand holding thing so I've wondered whether they'll try and escalate things a bit.

They've moved out now, but we get a few Americans like this. One was a crossdresser, with a surprisingly good knowledge of the gospel and a testimony despite this. I actually got in okay with him. The other was a young boy who was brought along with his family – early teens, passed the sacrament occasionally.

The others are inactive or have left altogether. There was one sister who was lesbian but came back from a while and left again over the issue – I don't count her because she never hung around.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 4:49 pm
by cyclOps
This reminds me… the other night I was jokingly romantic with my wife while whispering in her ear how attracted I was to her that she is a “cis gender female/woman,” that she is “binary,” and that she is “gender conforming”.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 4:50 pm
by spiritMan
Allison wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 1:41 pm We live in a very sheltered place and only recently heard a new ward member virtue signal during in his testimony about how much he loves the gays among us.

My son in another ward believes that kind of thing isn’t happening in the Church, and that gays wouldn’t even want to attend our church because of our policy against gay marriage.

Told him about a friend whose MTF brother in law in New England dresses as a woman now and attends RS with the ladies. When I told our friend that we would stop attending if it happened in our ward, he was shocked, just dumbfounded that we would not want to make such people feel extra welcome at church.

My son thinks it’s an anomaly. But I was under the impression that the gay agenda was fairly open at church in Utah. Am I wrong, though? Sure hope so.
It's in my Stake. A Stake counselor and his wife bear their testimony about how their daughter is gay and how everyone is being so loving, kind, welcoming.

My Stake had a special cabin at YW camps for the trans and queer girls.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 4:52 pm
by tribrac
Invite sinners to come learn of Christ, but once they come aren't they supposed to stop sinning and start acting perfect? Well perfect is an absurd expectation, but is there be an expectation to give up the really obvious sins? But the obvious sin might be the hardest thing for that person to quit. So should they not be allowed to come to Christ until they fix certain things first?

And what about those who have done things that cannot be undone in this life...like that guy to girl with the sister missionaries.

I'm glad I only have to worry about me, there are too many questions in today's world .

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 5:06 pm
by CuriousThinker
Fred wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:52 pm A member of my Bishopric came by the other day and I asked him about gay missionaries and he was adamant that there were not any. I told him I had heard of some and he said that if they have any gay tendencies whatsoever that that can not serve a mission. He said they must have fooled their Bishop to go. I don't know if he is right or not, but I think that by the time a guy is missionary age, if he is queer, people know it.
My friend's son served and was openly gay before he went out about 6 years ago on his mission.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 5:07 pm
by CuriousThinker
It may be the same Stake President, but my friend's SP left his wife, moved away, and transitioned to a woman. He was originally in Utah.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
by CuriousThinker
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:44 pm
Fred wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:52 pm A member of my Bishopric came by the other day and I asked him about gay missionaries and he was adamant that there were not any. I told him I had heard of some and he said that if they have any gay tendencies whatsoever that they can not serve a mission. He said they must have fooled their Bishop to go. I don't know if he is right or not, but I think that by the time a guy is missionary age, if he is queer, people know it.
There are many YM who have come out as gay on their missions. Receiving hundreds of positive responses on their FB pages. I remember recently seeing a trio of sister missionaries with a new convert. It was a transgender man dressed in a white dress in front of the baptismal font. Ironically this woMAN was a "Mental Health Therapist". Oh, I found the photo:
I thought you can't get baptized if you have transitioned. Or is it just no temple recommend?

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 5:11 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
CuriousThinker wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
I thought you can't get baptized if you have transitioned. Or is it just no temple recommend?
I dunno. The water is pretty murky when you get to that point.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 5:13 pm
by Egoof
Allison wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:42 pm
BigT wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:09 pm Nothing like that I’m aware of in So Utah County.


Okay, that is surprising and encouraging to hear! From the Midwest it sounds like SLC is the hotbed of it all with Provo coming in at a close second. South Utah County is…what, Payson? Spanish Fork?
I live in American Fork which is just north of Provo and there isn't much of it here. There's one lady that wears a rainbow sweater or button to church every week and there was a youth girl that decided she was a boy and wanted everyone to call her by different pronouns but she wasn't ever really active. My bishop is kind but firm in his views in favor of a family the proclamation. The part about gender being a part of our eternal identity was quoted in sacrament meeting last week and I almost started cheering and clapping but I restrained myself.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 5:21 pm
by Mamabear
Lizzy60 wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:28 pm
Mamabear wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:44 pm
TruthSeeker77 wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:27 pm
Mamabear wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 1:46 pm There is an openly gay yw president in Utah. She spoke at byu women’s conference 2021. Was very proud to be a gay leader and to teach the girls all the correct pronouns and all the other garbage. Sharon Eubanks stood next to her and smiled in solidarity the whole time.

There is also a gay man who is an autho. I don’t remember his name…..He’s very popular at the churches in Utah. He does tons of firesides for a lot of wards.
It is Elder Christofferson's brother. He wrote the book "That we may be one." He's openly gay.
No, it’s not him. This guy is fairly new, he was baptized a few years ago.
It’s this guy.....

Dennis Schleicher is an LGBT advocate and highly sought-after public speaker, a writer, lifestyle reporter, and best-selling author of "Is He Nuts?: Why a Gay Man Would Become a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ." And, "Scripture Up!
Yeah that’s him

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 5:25 pm
by blitzinstripes
We have a lesbian couple in the ward. Come pretty regularly. One of them is divorced and has a few children. Nobody really says anything. I'm pretty sure everyone knows about their "special" friendship.

I knew several gay missionaries when I served back in the 90's. They were in various stages of "out" from full blown flamboyant to still figuring it out. I was a district leader around Christmas the one year and we came home to a bad situation one evening. One of our elders had confessed his love for his companion. The companion didn't reciprocate the feeling. He was straight and more than a little upset by the revelation. I held the gay elder in my arms while he sobbed and told me everything. I called the mission president and the guy ended up going home a few days later. I felt nothing but compassion and sadness for him. Always wondered how things worked out for him. We had a few,but he's the one I remember most. A friend of mine's sister had her first "encounter" with her missionary companion. They finished their missions, came home,l eft the church and have been married for about 20 years now.

I think there is way more of it happening then we want to admit. Read a Facebook post about that David Archulletta kid from American Idol. I guess he's fully "out" now and denouncing his faith in God. I feel really sorry for the one's that can't cope and turn away from God.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 6:23 pm
by Wolfwoman
CuriousThinker wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:44 pm
Fred wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:52 pm A member of my Bishopric came by the other day and I asked him about gay missionaries and he was adamant that there were not any. I told him I had heard of some and he said that if they have any gay tendencies whatsoever that they can not serve a mission. He said they must have fooled their Bishop to go. I don't know if he is right or not, but I think that by the time a guy is missionary age, if he is queer, people know it.
There are many YM who have come out as gay on their missions. Receiving hundreds of positive responses on their FB pages. I remember recently seeing a trio of sister missionaries with a new convert. It was a transgender man dressed in a white dress in front of the baptismal font. Ironically this woMAN was a "Mental Health Therapist". Oh, I found the photo:
I thought you can't get baptized if you have transitioned. Or is it just no temple recommend?
My understanding is that at this time, they can get baptized if they have transitioned. But they cannot get a temple recommend or be ordained to the priesthood.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 9:29 pm
by Dusty Wanderer
spiritMan wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 4:50 pm
My Stake had a special cabin at YW camps for the trans and queer girls.
They might as well call that cabin "7 Minutes in Heaven", like that old party game. Do these people actually consider the implications?

Wouldn't that be like having a special cabin at Youth Conference where a few YM and YW got to sleep in it together?

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 10:32 pm
by TwochurchesOnly
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:44 pm
Fred wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:52 pm A member of my Bishopric came by the other day and I asked him about gay missionaries and he was adamant that there were not any. I told him I had heard of some and he said that if they have any gay tendencies whatsoever that they can not serve a mission. He said they must have fooled their Bishop to go. I don't know if he is right or not, but I think that by the time a guy is missionary age, if he is queer, people know it.
There are many YM who have come out as gay on their missions. Receiving hundreds of positive responses on their FB pages. I remember recently seeing a trio of sister missionaries with a new convert. It was a transgender man dressed in a white dress in front of the baptismal font. Ironically this woMAN was a "Mental Health Therapist". Oh, I found the photo:
So sickening to me -- sad, sickening. -
Those young female missionaries- how messed up will their lives be just trying to act like this is all normal, and okay with God -??- wow
Don't want my grandchildren exposed to such garbage
Heaven help us
Calling good evil and evil good .
I see damage to very young children from the conditioning of social/ peer pressure of not wanting to be seen as different or wrong by going against perceived rules --- mask mandates
A precious grandchild was visibly troubled by my unwillingness to stay in a public place that required the damn masks--

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 22nd, 2022, 11:59 pm
by Jules
Fred wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:52 pm A member of my Bishopric came by the other day and I asked him about gay missionaries and he was adamant that there were not any. I told him I had heard of some and he said that if they have any gay tendencies whatsoever that that can not serve a mission. He said they must have fooled their Bishop to go. I don't know if he is right or not, but I think that by the time a guy is missionary age, if he is queer, people know it.
My son had an openly gay missionary companion in 2016. He told my son that serving a mission with his male companions, was as if they had placed any other male missionary with a bunch of beautiful sister missionaries, and made him sleep alone with them in the same room for 2 years; torture.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 23rd, 2022, 3:13 am
by Niemand
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:11 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
I thought you can't get baptized if you have transitioned. Or is it just no temple recommend?
I dunno. The water is pretty murky when you get to that point.
I know for a fact that the RC church has baptised transgender people unknowingly – one of them was boasting about it online. When I got baptised I got the interview from the bishop but never got asked to show a birth certificate.

However, trans people are arguably as entitled to salvation as anyone else. So if someone has transitioned and makes a sincere commitment to be baptised, then that is an issue. Some of these people have had surgery etc. That's where it gets messy. Is a trans-woman supposed to get surgical breast reductions before being baptised? The bit downstairs can't be replaced. Leviticus 21 suggests that a man with crushed stones (i.e. testicles) can't go in the temple.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 23rd, 2022, 4:01 pm
by BenMcCrea
Fred wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:52 pm A member of my Bishopric came by the other day and I asked him about gay missionaries and he was adamant that there were not any. I told him I had heard of some and he said that if they have any gay tendencies whatsoever that that can not serve a mission. He said they must have fooled their Bishop to go. I don't know if he is right or not, but I think that by the time a guy is missionary age, if he is queer, people know it.
The member of your Bishopric is either lying or is unaware of the truth. Gay and lesbian church members can serve missions so long as they agree to not have sex. The Church seems to ignore the fact that this would still allow gay and lesbian members to kiss, hold hands. embrace etc,

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 23rd, 2022, 5:21 pm
by Serragon
Fred wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:52 pm A member of my Bishopric came by the other day and I asked him about gay missionaries and he was adamant that there were not any. I told him I had heard of some and he said that if they have any gay tendencies whatsoever that that can not serve a mission. He said they must have fooled their Bishop to go. I don't know if he is right or not, but I think that by the time a guy is missionary age, if he is queer, people know it.
You would be amazed how many Bishops don't know that the Church no longer considers homosexuality a sin, even though it has been removed from the handbook for a few years now.

They just can't get their minds around the idea, so it isn't true. If they even know about the handbook changes, they chalk it up to subtlety in a wicked world.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 23rd, 2022, 5:36 pm
by Serragon
Niemand wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 3:13 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:11 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
I thought you can't get baptized if you have transitioned. Or is it just no temple recommend?
I dunno. The water is pretty murky when you get to that point.
I know for a fact that the RC church has baptised transgender people unknowingly – one of them was boasting about it online. When I got baptised I got the interview from the bishop but never got asked to show a birth certificate.

However, trans people are arguably as entitled to salvation as anyone else. So if someone has transitioned and makes a sincere commitment to be baptised, then that is an issue. Some of these people have had surgery etc. That's where it gets messy. Is a trans-woman supposed to get surgical breast reductions before being baptised? The bit downstairs can't be replaced. Leviticus 21 suggests that a man with crushed stones (i.e. testicles) can't go in the temple.
There is no such thing as a "trans" person, or someone who has "transitioned". They are just people with delusions, fetishes, or fantasies that are indulged to the point of self-mutilation.

If someone has repented of their indulgence of their natural man and wishes to sacrifice that part of their nature to Christ, then they should be accepted fully into the fold of Christ regardless of whatever mutilation they may have done to themselves.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 23rd, 2022, 6:26 pm
by Niemand
Serragon wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 5:36 pm
Niemand wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 3:13 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:11 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
I thought you can't get baptized if you have transitioned. Or is it just no temple recommend?
I dunno. The water is pretty murky when you get to that point.
I know for a fact that the RC church has baptised transgender people unknowingly – one of them was boasting about it online. When I got baptised I got the interview from the bishop but never got asked to show a birth certificate.

However, trans people are arguably as entitled to salvation as anyone else. So if someone has transitioned and makes a sincere commitment to be baptised, then that is an issue. Some of these people have had surgery etc. That's where it gets messy. Is a trans-woman supposed to get surgical breast reductions before being baptised? The bit downstairs can't be replaced. Leviticus 21 suggests that a man with crushed stones (i.e. testicles) can't go in the temple.
There is no such thing as a "trans" person, or someone who has "transitioned". They are just people with delusions, fetishes, or fantasies that are indulged to the point of self-mutilation.

If someone has repented of their indulgence of their natural man and wishes to sacrifice that part of their nature to Christ, then they should be accepted fully into the fold of Christ regardless of whatever mutilation they may have done to themselves.
As you full well know these expressions are shorthand for a number of things that are too long to mention in a few words.

But since you ask, yes, these people do exist. That is a separate issue from whether they have actually turned into their desired gender.

An increasing number of these folk are dealing with certain physical realities. Those physical realities include breasts ("organic" or implants) and genital removal for one lot, and breast reduction and Adam's apples for the other lot. Some of this is irreversible. At this point it ceases to be a preference, choice or even delusion, because they are stuck with it whether they want it or not. It's a bit like having rhinoplasty – you will never have your original nose again.

There are a number of people who have regretted their choice but they can't go back to where they were.

So in that sense there has been a change or a transition. Thst doesn't mean a man has ended up as a woman, or vice versa, but that someone who was born a normal.male or female has ended up as something quite different.

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Posted: September 23rd, 2022, 7:55 pm
by Wolfwoman
Niemand wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 3:13 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:11 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
I thought you can't get baptized if you have transitioned. Or is it just no temple recommend?
I dunno. The water is pretty murky when you get to that point.
I know for a fact that the RC church has baptised transgender people unknowingly – one of them was boasting about it online. When I got baptised I got the interview from the bishop but never got asked to show a birth certificate.

However, trans people are arguably as entitled to salvation as anyone else. So if someone has transitioned and makes a sincere commitment to be baptised, then that is an issue. Some of these people have had surgery etc. That's where it gets messy. Is a trans-woman supposed to get surgical breast reductions before being baptised? The bit downstairs can't be replaced. Leviticus 21 suggests that a man with crushed stones (i.e. testicles) can't go in the temple.
What is the RC Church?
Yeah, I was thinking, I doubt someone is asking to see their private parts or their birth certificate, etc. when they ask to be baptized. So someone could hide it... there are a few, not many, transgender people who can easily pass for the sex they are trying to be.