Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

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spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2277

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by spiritMan »

harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:57 am
Dave62 wrote: October 31st, 2022, 6:05 am
You have GOT to be joking! Bloody hell! That's just disgusting! So all the kids would have seen it. I would have let my kids get their goodies and after they had enjoyed themselves, I would have packed up and gone to another ward for the rest of mortality!
Yeah, it would have shocked me 10 years ago. I see now that these demonstrator types of people feel a divide between them and the rest of the population driven by the media and liberal extremists. They feel like they aren't heard by us. Most importantly, they feel like it's society vs. them and they have to make a stand.

I'm not going to play into the divide by making a big deal about it. Everyone is missing a part of the truth. Everyone is wrong about some things. In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity. I want them to see that they are the one creating the divide. I want them to know they can make the choice, it hasn't been thrust upon them.

Given that the banner my kids have no idea what it is and if they did, hopefully I will have taught them well enough to understand the truth, then it won't affect them.

At some point, the dividers will have divided normal society off from themselves, perhaps refusing to let people buy and sell. They will openly and permanently commit to be the enemy and to our destruction. At that point, I will take a stand. I will definitely not put up a divide with someone who is not yet my enemy.
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?

Come on man. You know your response would absolutely be different. You claim "peace" but what it really means is "I do not want to stick my neck out for fear that it will get chopped off". It has nothing to do with division, but it's a great way to self-rationalize doing nothing.

But of course, if you are unwilling to do it . . then who will? The tooth fairy?
But you can get on an internet forum, kevetch and moan about it . . .oh my goodness look how the world is going to hell . . . but do nothing about it in your own garden plot.

And if you were honest about it, while I would disagree I would respect it. Being honest about how an individual is too afraid to do something for fear of the societal repercussions is at least honorable.

But don't use Christ as a justification for your lack of willingness to do anything about it.

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JandD6572
captain of 100
Posts: 292

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by JandD6572 »

spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:27 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:57 am

Yeah, it would have shocked me 10 years ago. I see now that these demonstrator types of people feel a divide between them and the rest of the population driven by the media and liberal extremists. They feel like they aren't heard by us. Most importantly, they feel like it's society vs. them and they have to make a stand.

I'm not going to play into the divide by making a big deal about it. Everyone is missing a part of the truth. Everyone is wrong about some things. In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity. I want them to see that they are the one creating the divide. I want them to know they can make the choice, it hasn't been thrust upon them.

Given that the banner my kids have no idea what it is and if they did, hopefully I will have taught them well enough to understand the truth, then it won't affect them.

At some point, the dividers will have divided normal society off from themselves, perhaps refusing to let people buy and sell. They will openly and permanently commit to be the enemy and to our destruction. At that point, I will take a stand. I will definitely not put up a divide with someone who is not yet my enemy.
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?

Come on man. You know your response would absolutely be different. You claim "peace" but what it really means is "I do not want to stick my neck out for fear that it will get chopped off". It has nothing to do with division, but it's a great way to self-rationalize doing nothing.

But of course, if you are unwilling to do it . . then who will? The tooth fairy?
But you can get on an internet forum, kevetch and moan about it . . .oh my goodness look how the world is going to hell . . . but do nothing about it in your own garden plot.

And if you were honest about it, while I would disagree I would respect it. Being honest about how an individual is too afraid to do something for fear of the societal repercussions is at least honorable.

But don't use Christ as a justification for your lack of willingness to do anything about it.
You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2277

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by spiritMan »

JandD6572 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:49 am
spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:27 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?

Come on man. You know your response would absolutely be different. You claim "peace" but what it really means is "I do not want to stick my neck out for fear that it will get chopped off". It has nothing to do with division, but it's a great way to self-rationalize doing nothing.

But of course, if you are unwilling to do it . . then who will? The tooth fairy?
But you can get on an internet forum, kevetch and moan about it . . .oh my goodness look how the world is going to hell . . . but do nothing about it in your own garden plot.

And if you were honest about it, while I would disagree I would respect it. Being honest about how an individual is too afraid to do something for fear of the societal repercussions is at least honorable.

But don't use Christ as a justification for your lack of willingness to do anything about it.
You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.
The challenge is that we have to stand up while not allowing ourselves to get sucked into having the INTENT to cause division. It can be very, very hard to simply stand up be counted and to do so calmly, unabashedly and be willing to be attacked due to our positions.

User avatar
harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2819
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by harakim »

spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:04 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:57 am

Yeah, it would have shocked me 10 years ago. I see now that these demonstrator types of people feel a divide between them and the rest of the population driven by the media and liberal extremists. They feel like they aren't heard by us. Most importantly, they feel like it's society vs. them and they have to make a stand.

I'm not going to play into the divide by making a big deal about it. Everyone is missing a part of the truth. Everyone is wrong about some things. In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity. I want them to see that they are the one creating the divide. I want them to know they can make the choice, it hasn't been thrust upon them.

Given that the banner my kids have no idea what it is and if they did, hopefully I will have taught them well enough to understand the truth, then it won't affect them.

At some point, the dividers will have divided normal society off from themselves, perhaps refusing to let people buy and sell. They will openly and permanently commit to be the enemy and to our destruction. At that point, I will take a stand. I will definitely not put up a divide with someone who is not yet my enemy.
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
We have openly homosexual missionaries. They are protected by MPs. If a young man does not want to serve with a queer; he is the bad guy.
Dude. Wake up and smell the coffee.

"recognize the divide until it's irreversible". Yeah, that's exactly right. You will be kicked out of your own faith all because you set "peace" above truth.

You don't do what is right; you cowtow to them and then in your head proclaim (yes, yes, being silent is the Christlike thing to do, b/c if I speak up "gasp" I might play into their hands!).

I dare you. Just go to the stand next Sunday and bear testimony to the entire ward that the only right way of living is man and woman and that anything else, any promotion of or behavior that does not lead to man and woman is not of God. Any of the ideological rainbow which deviates from God's standard regardless of how little is not of Him.

You won't b/c you want "peace"; which is really code for "I don't want to be ostrazied in my faith and I want to lay low as long as I possibly can".

Seriously dude, when did simply bearing firm, resolute testimony of truth in front of your own faith become "division". When same-sex sealings come to the LDS church. People will say "how did this happen!!!"

You only have to look in the mirror.
I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. You want to stay in the LDS church, but you also want to have your faith - two masters, if you will. That position will become untenable. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. I put my principles first and if earthly organizations fit in, then great. If not, then great. It doesn't really matter. I don't spend my time trying to influence what any particular man-made organization requires of its followers or enforcing all the followers believe just like me. I only have so much time.
same wrote: Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Yeah, I would. I don't just have one response that I use for everything. I would have different feelings and thoughts for various responses, but they'd all be based on the same principles. It wouldn't bother me if someone flew a playboy bunny flag for 3 minutes or a Nazi flag either. I will admit that I don't know what a flag of Christ is.
JandD6572 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:49 am You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.
I agree that this is a dangerous philosophy. We are the body of Christ and are responsible for doing his works. If you don't do his works, you're not his.

Let's see what the founding fathers say.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2277

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by spiritMan »

harakim wrote: November 1st, 2022, 8:07 am
spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:04 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
We have openly homosexual missionaries. They are protected by MPs. If a young man does not want to serve with a queer; he is the bad guy.
Dude. Wake up and smell the coffee.

"recognize the divide until it's irreversible". Yeah, that's exactly right. You will be kicked out of your own faith all because you set "peace" above truth.

You don't do what is right; you cowtow to them and then in your head proclaim (yes, yes, being silent is the Christlike thing to do, b/c if I speak up "gasp" I might play into their hands!).

I dare you. Just go to the stand next Sunday and bear testimony to the entire ward that the only right way of living is man and woman and that anything else, any promotion of or behavior that does not lead to man and woman is not of God. Any of the ideological rainbow which deviates from God's standard regardless of how little is not of Him.

You won't b/c you want "peace"; which is really code for "I don't want to be ostrazied in my faith and I want to lay low as long as I possibly can".

Seriously dude, when did simply bearing firm, resolute testimony of truth in front of your own faith become "division". When same-sex sealings come to the LDS church. People will say "how did this happen!!!"

You only have to look in the mirror.
I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. You want to stay in the LDS church, but you also want to have your faith - two masters, if you will. That position will become untenable. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. I put my principles first and if earthly organizations fit in, then great. If not, then great. It doesn't really matter. I don't spend my time trying to influence what any particular man-made organization requires of its followers or enforcing all the followers believe just like me. I only have so much time.
same wrote: Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Yeah, I would. I don't just have one response that I use for everything. I would have different feelings and thoughts for various responses, but they'd all be based on the same principles. It wouldn't bother me if someone flew a playboy bunny flag for 3 minutes or a Nazi flag either. I will admit that I don't know what a flag of Christ is.
JandD6572 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:49 am You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.
I agree that this is a dangerous philosophy. We are the body of Christ and are responsible for doing his works. If you don't do his works, you're not his.

Let's see what the founding fathers say.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
" I don't spend my time trying to influence what any particular man-made organization requires of its followers or enforcing all the followers believe just like me."

Coward. Again. That's just an excuse for your lack of willingness to stand up.

No one is telling others they should only drive Fords. Stop trivializing this issue.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2277

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by spiritMan »

harakim wrote: November 1st, 2022, 8:07 am
spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:04 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
We have openly homosexual missionaries. They are protected by MPs. If a young man does not want to serve with a queer; he is the bad guy.
Dude. Wake up and smell the coffee.

"recognize the divide until it's irreversible". Yeah, that's exactly right. You will be kicked out of your own faith all because you set "peace" above truth.

You don't do what is right; you cowtow to them and then in your head proclaim (yes, yes, being silent is the Christlike thing to do, b/c if I speak up "gasp" I might play into their hands!).

I dare you. Just go to the stand next Sunday and bear testimony to the entire ward that the only right way of living is man and woman and that anything else, any promotion of or behavior that does not lead to man and woman is not of God. Any of the ideological rainbow which deviates from God's standard regardless of how little is not of Him.

You won't b/c you want "peace"; which is really code for "I don't want to be ostrazied in my faith and I want to lay low as long as I possibly can".

Seriously dude, when did simply bearing firm, resolute testimony of truth in front of your own faith become "division". When same-sex sealings come to the LDS church. People will say "how did this happen!!!"

You only have to look in the mirror.
I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. You want to stay in the LDS church, but you also want to have your faith - two masters, if you will. That position will become untenable. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. I put my principles first and if earthly organizations fit in, then great. If not, then great. It doesn't really matter. I don't spend my time trying to influence what any particular man-made organization requires of its followers or enforcing all the followers believe just like me. I only have so much time.
same wrote: Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Yeah, I would. I don't just have one response that I use for everything. I would have different feelings and thoughts for various responses, but they'd all be based on the same principles. It wouldn't bother me if someone flew a playboy bunny flag for 3 minutes or a Nazi flag either. I will admit that I don't know what a flag of Christ is.
JandD6572 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:49 am You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.
I agree that this is a dangerous philosophy. We are the body of Christ and are responsible for doing his works. If you don't do his works, you're not his.

Let's see what the founding fathers say.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
"Yeah, I would. I don't just have one response that I use for everything. I would have different feelings and thoughts for various responses, but they'd all be based on the same principles. It wouldn't bother me if someone flew a playboy bunny flag for 3 minutes or a Nazi flag either. I will admit that I don't know what a flag of Christ is."

Okay, you would belong to a "Christian" organization where it's members flew a flag of Christ being crucified upside down. You would do nothing to help convince your Christian brothers and sisters this is abhorrent.

You have no principles and no morals . . .it's just "peace". You will sacrifice anything and everything to just "go along to get along". That's exactly what Sam Adams is saying.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2277

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by spiritMan »

harakim wrote: November 1st, 2022, 8:07 am
spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:04 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
We have openly homosexual missionaries. They are protected by MPs. If a young man does not want to serve with a queer; he is the bad guy.
Dude. Wake up and smell the coffee.

"recognize the divide until it's irreversible". Yeah, that's exactly right. You will be kicked out of your own faith all because you set "peace" above truth.

You don't do what is right; you cowtow to them and then in your head proclaim (yes, yes, being silent is the Christlike thing to do, b/c if I speak up "gasp" I might play into their hands!).

I dare you. Just go to the stand next Sunday and bear testimony to the entire ward that the only right way of living is man and woman and that anything else, any promotion of or behavior that does not lead to man and woman is not of God. Any of the ideological rainbow which deviates from God's standard regardless of how little is not of Him.

You won't b/c you want "peace"; which is really code for "I don't want to be ostrazied in my faith and I want to lay low as long as I possibly can".

Seriously dude, when did simply bearing firm, resolute testimony of truth in front of your own faith become "division". When same-sex sealings come to the LDS church. People will say "how did this happen!!!"

You only have to look in the mirror.
I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. You want to stay in the LDS church, but you also want to have your faith - two masters, if you will. That position will become untenable. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. I put my principles first and if earthly organizations fit in, then great. If not, then great. It doesn't really matter. I don't spend my time trying to influence what any particular man-made organization requires of its followers or enforcing all the followers believe just like me. I only have so much time.
same wrote: Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Yeah, I would. I don't just have one response that I use for everything. I would have different feelings and thoughts for various responses, but they'd all be based on the same principles. It wouldn't bother me if someone flew a playboy bunny flag for 3 minutes or a Nazi flag either. I will admit that I don't know what a flag of Christ is.
JandD6572 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:49 am You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.
I agree that this is a dangerous philosophy. We are the body of Christ and are responsible for doing his works. If you don't do his works, you're not his.

Let's see what the founding fathers say.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
"I agree that this is a dangerous philosophy. We are the body of Christ and are responsible for doing his works. If you don't do his works, you're not his."

You claim to be the body of Christ but then do nothing when a flag flies supporting the most abominable acts known to man is flown at a function for the "body of Christ".

Are you for real?

Oh that's right "peace" is your god.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2277

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by spiritMan »

harakim wrote: November 1st, 2022, 8:07 am
spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:04 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
We have openly homosexual missionaries. They are protected by MPs. If a young man does not want to serve with a queer; he is the bad guy.
Dude. Wake up and smell the coffee.

"recognize the divide until it's irreversible". Yeah, that's exactly right. You will be kicked out of your own faith all because you set "peace" above truth.

You don't do what is right; you cowtow to them and then in your head proclaim (yes, yes, being silent is the Christlike thing to do, b/c if I speak up "gasp" I might play into their hands!).

I dare you. Just go to the stand next Sunday and bear testimony to the entire ward that the only right way of living is man and woman and that anything else, any promotion of or behavior that does not lead to man and woman is not of God. Any of the ideological rainbow which deviates from God's standard regardless of how little is not of Him.

You won't b/c you want "peace"; which is really code for "I don't want to be ostrazied in my faith and I want to lay low as long as I possibly can".

Seriously dude, when did simply bearing firm, resolute testimony of truth in front of your own faith become "division". When same-sex sealings come to the LDS church. People will say "how did this happen!!!"

You only have to look in the mirror.
I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. You want to stay in the LDS church, but you also want to have your faith - two masters, if you will. That position will become untenable. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. I put my principles first and if earthly organizations fit in, then great. If not, then great. It doesn't really matter. I don't spend my time trying to influence what any particular man-made organization requires of its followers or enforcing all the followers believe just like me. I only have so much time.
same wrote: Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Yeah, I would. I don't just have one response that I use for everything. I would have different feelings and thoughts for various responses, but they'd all be based on the same principles. It wouldn't bother me if someone flew a playboy bunny flag for 3 minutes or a Nazi flag either. I will admit that I don't know what a flag of Christ is.
JandD6572 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:49 am You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.
I agree that this is a dangerous philosophy. We are the body of Christ and are responsible for doing his works. If you don't do his works, you're not his.

Let's see what the founding fathers say.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
"I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. You want to stay in the LDS church, but you also want to have your faith - two masters, if you will. That position will become untenable."

Just exactly where do you stand? From the looks of it, you seem to think the whole LGBTQ+ ideology is acceptable in a Christian religion. Are you the wolf in sheeps clothing? You are starting to sound like you are defending these actions.

spiritMan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2277

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by spiritMan »

harakim wrote: November 1st, 2022, 8:07 am
spiritMan wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:04 am
harakim wrote: October 31st, 2022, 10:58 pm
spiritMan wrote: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 pm
"In my opinion, it's better not to play into the divide and not validate that belief that everyone is out to get them and that they have to double down on the identity"

Yes, better to let them infiltrate and teach their putrid wicked ideology to everyone who will lend an ear that to stand up for what is right for fear that you will "validate" their belief.

Coward.
I am not afraid that I will validate their belief. I just do what is right, even when people mock me from the great and spacious building. The globalists need to divide us and I am not going to play into their hands or recognize the divide until it's irreversible. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the prince of hate.
We have openly homosexual missionaries. They are protected by MPs. If a young man does not want to serve with a queer; he is the bad guy.
Dude. Wake up and smell the coffee.

"recognize the divide until it's irreversible". Yeah, that's exactly right. You will be kicked out of your own faith all because you set "peace" above truth.

You don't do what is right; you cowtow to them and then in your head proclaim (yes, yes, being silent is the Christlike thing to do, b/c if I speak up "gasp" I might play into their hands!).

I dare you. Just go to the stand next Sunday and bear testimony to the entire ward that the only right way of living is man and woman and that anything else, any promotion of or behavior that does not lead to man and woman is not of God. Any of the ideological rainbow which deviates from God's standard regardless of how little is not of Him.

You won't b/c you want "peace"; which is really code for "I don't want to be ostrazied in my faith and I want to lay low as long as I possibly can".

Seriously dude, when did simply bearing firm, resolute testimony of truth in front of your own faith become "division". When same-sex sealings come to the LDS church. People will say "how did this happen!!!"

You only have to look in the mirror.
I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. You want to stay in the LDS church, but you also want to have your faith - two masters, if you will. That position will become untenable. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. I put my principles first and if earthly organizations fit in, then great. If not, then great. It doesn't really matter. I don't spend my time trying to influence what any particular man-made organization requires of its followers or enforcing all the followers believe just like me. I only have so much time.
same wrote: Would your response be the same if you saw a flag of Christ upside down being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Playboy bunny being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Would your response be the same if you saw a large flag of the Nazi's being flown at a Church sponsered function?
Yeah, I would. I don't just have one response that I use for everything. I would have different feelings and thoughts for various responses, but they'd all be based on the same principles. It wouldn't bother me if someone flew a playboy bunny flag for 3 minutes or a Nazi flag either. I will admit that I don't know what a flag of Christ is.
JandD6572 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 6:49 am You are absolutely right, Sadly, most of these people will use Christ as a justification, that somehow, we don't have to speak up, stand up or put up, because he is coming and will fix it all. This mentality, only allows his followers to sit and hide, and wait out the storm. the same goes with standing for patriotism today, we are to often asked to stand down, and not cause a fuss. Thank God, our founding fathers didn't take this same approach and reasoning.
I agree that this is a dangerous philosophy. We are the body of Christ and are responsible for doing his works. If you don't do his works, you're not his.

Let's see what the founding fathers say.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Everything is connected.

You refuse to stand up and say anything when a PRIDE flag is flown at a ward function.
A member on here mentions how his/her son was exposed to porn at Church during a lesson when the teacher was gone and none of the kids said anything

Hmm . . . I wonder why?

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Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by Silver Pie »

Bump - because some people in another thread were trying to find the picture of the man who got baptized while pretending to be a woman.

logonbump
captain of 100
Posts: 791

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by logonbump »

Silver Pie wrote: January 30th, 2024, 8:15 pm Bump - because some people in another thread were trying to find the picture of the man who got baptized while pretending to be a woman.
The photo in question
The photo in question
Lauren+Harrigian+5-1920w.webp (509.71 KiB) Viewed 213 times

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Ebenezer
captain of 100
Posts: 630

Re: Is Anyone Openly Gay at Church?

Post by Ebenezer »

That dude is a mental help therapist? 🤦🏻‍♂️

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