Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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onefour1
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by onefour1 »

In his desire to have his son do what is right, the father takes on the doctrine of Satan and seeks to force his son against his will to do what is right. This leads my thoughts back to the events of our premortal existence. Satan thought that if he could force us all to be obedient, he could save us all. He was so into this plan of his that he probably thought that it was a better plan than what the Father had. He proudly presented his plan on how to save all God's children without one soul being lost. However, the Father rejected it outright because free will is so critical in the plan of salvation that introducing force into the plan would destroy the entire plan of happiness altogether. Satan then became angry that his plan was rejected and from that time he began to rebel against the Father and sought to turn all against the Father and his plan and to side with him. What Satan did not grasp was that free will is absolutely essential to the plan of happiness and that his plan would not accomplish the will of God. To become a God, one must learn to choose goodness in and of oneself. Nobody is forcing God our Heavenly Father to be a good being. He is a good being in and of himself. He chooses good always because he is totally converted to the concept of doing good. He loves righteousness and knows that for one to become like himself they must learn to choose to be a good being in and of themselves. You cannot become a good being by being coerced to be so. You have to learn and choose to be that kind of being. Only then will you become truly good of your own free will and choice. This father was tempted to use the methods of Satan to bring about goodness. I hope he realizes his mistake and makes it up to his son. To go on in his way is so damaging. He needs to apologize and ask forgiveness from his son. I realize as a father myself that we have a strong desire to have our children do what is right and follow righteousness, but using force and violence upon your children is turning to following the ways of Satan and can be extremely damaging. Free will and free choice have always been and always will be part of the plan of our Heavenly Father. He affords each one of us to make our own decision about what kind of being we are going to be. As parents, we too must be like our Father in Heaven and not take on the Satanic ways of coercion but teach by love and persuasion and long suffering, realizing that our children are free agents as well and deserve the respect that we expect from others to make our own choices.

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Mindfields
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Mindfields »

You do realize that Satan could utterly destroy God's so called plan by just taking a vacation. In other words, refusing to oppose God.

onefour1
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by onefour1 »

Mindfields wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:34 pm You do realize that Satan could utterly destroy God's so called plan by just taking a vacation. In other words, refusing to oppose God.
How would that destroy God's plan?

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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Mindfields wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:34 pm You do realize that Satan could utterly destroy God's so called plan by just taking a vacation. In other words, refusing to oppose God.
Humans would still disobey.

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Niemand »

There is supposedly a thread on Reddit claiming boys are committing suicide rather than go on missions. No idea if true

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Mindfields
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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"For there must be opposition in all things" Mormon theology requires a devil.

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Niemand »

Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:37 am "For there must be opposition in all things" Mormon theology requires a devil.
We are the devils. Look at people today. The Devil could take a decade off and they would still work the evil for him. Most of the current generation in the west are either weak or decadent, and utterly materialistic in the worst possible way. Every major politician also seems to be evil. There are still landmines, polluted rivers and diseases. The natural man and human history would take care of it for a while.

onefour1
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:37 am "For there must be opposition in all things" Mormon theology requires a devil.
I think when God says there must needs be opposition in all things, I don't think he means that there must be a devil. I think he means that if you have one side, there is an opposite side to it. For example, if you create laws, those laws automatically have an opposite to them. If God says, "Thou shalt not kill", someone could disobey the law and kill someone. That opposition exists regardless of whether we have a devil tempting us to do it or not. Mankind must learn to choose the right and not the wrong. I think God definitely has used Satan as an advocate for disobedience but the opposition already existed. The opposition exists eternally otherwise when God says if he were unjust that he would cease to be God that it is a true principal that if God chose to be unjust he would not be God. God doesn't choose to be unjust but he does have the choice. There must needs be opposition in all things eternally. We just need to learn to choose the good continually like God does.

I feel that we do not need to be tempted in all things to do some things that are not right. I think man's curiosity and base temperament and lack of perfection can lead him into mischief as much as being tempted directly by the devil. I think temptation is a tool to teach us to become stronger in resisting evil and not the source of it.

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Mindfields
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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What if the Devil saw through God's plan never tempted Eve?

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Silver Pie
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:06 pm What if the Devil saw through God's plan never tempted Eve?
Then Adam and Eve would have partaken of the fruit after they had learned what they needed to know to be sufficiently prepared.

Had the devils not been cast out here, thus making this planet Hell, I suspect this would have been a terrestrial world. Still natural opposition as explained above, but not nearly as vile as we have here.

But you throw devils onto a planet, then put humans on it, it ain't gonna be pretty. In fact, odds are that it will be a literal hell most of the time (if not all).

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jreuben
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by jreuben »

I'm very grateful that the Lord inspired me to counsel my children to not serve missions. So very grateful.

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Lexew1899
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:06 pm What if the Devil saw through God's plan never tempted Eve?
I think he would be too egotistical and evil to stop from trying to mess everything up. It’d be like giving a brick to a looter at a Best Buy and saying, “There’s a million dollars of new merchandise in there. I’m going to turn my back, make sure you don’t try to steal anything.”

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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jreuben wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:52 pm I'm very grateful that the Lord inspired me to counsel my children to not serve missions. So very grateful.
I think witnessing of Christ is the real mission. Not whether you go off for two years and live in a suit and a suitcase, chapping at strangers' doors. Pres. McKay was right to say "every member a missionary" in that sense.

As I say above it would have been an awful fit for me at the time.

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Niemand »

Silver Pie wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:46 pm
Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:06 pm What if the Devil saw through God's plan never tempted Eve?
Then Adam and Eve would have partaken of the fruit after they had learned what they needed to know to be sufficiently prepared.

Had the devils not been cast out here, thus making this planet Hell, I suspect this would have been a terrestrial world. Still natural opposition as explained above, but not nearly as vile as we have here.

But you throw devils onto a planet, then put humans on it, it ain't gonna be pretty. In fact, odds are that it will be a literal hell most of the time (if not all).
As a contemporary saying goes, "it could have been worse". There is still good here and this is not a total wasteland. Yet.

It's also obvious that some people have had it worse at some periods and places than others. Within living memory, you had people living in the greatest comfort in the modern age, while the poor people of Cambodia were being worked to death.

onefour1
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:06 pm What if the Devil saw through God's plan never tempted Eve?
I think that God, being a person who knows the end from the beginning knew in advance that Lucifer would fall and that he would tempt Adam and Eve and seek to always keep man from following God. God, knowing the end from the beginning does not allow for his plan to fail. You can't surprise God.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Silver Pie »

So true.
Niemand wrote: October 5th, 2022, 5:01 pm
Silver Pie wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:46 pm
Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:06 pm What if the Devil saw through God's plan never tempted Eve?
Then Adam and Eve would have partaken of the fruit after they had learned what they needed to know to be sufficiently prepared.

Had the devils not been cast out here, thus making this planet Hell, I suspect this would have been a terrestrial world. Still natural opposition as explained above, but not nearly as vile as we have here.

But you throw devils onto a planet, then put humans on it, it ain't gonna be pretty. In fact, odds are that it will be a literal hell most of the time (if not all).
As a contemporary saying goes, "it could have been worse". There is still good here and this is not a total wasteland. Yet.

It's also obvious that some people have had it worse at some periods and places than others. Within living memory, you had people living in the greatest comfort in the modern age, while the poor people of Cambodia were being worked to death.
onefour1 wrote: October 5th, 2022, 5:52 pm
Mindfields wrote: October 5th, 2022, 4:06 pm What if the Devil saw through God's plan never tempted Eve?
I think that God, being a person who knows the end from the beginning knew in advance that Lucifer would fall and that he would tempt Adam and Eve and seek to always keep man from following God. God, knowing the end from the beginning does not allow for his plan to fail. You can't surprise God.
I completely agree.

God knew exactly what would happen.

Mamabear
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Mamabear »

It seems like many parents are for taking their kids agency away, forcing them to do things they don't want to:

“I’m going on my mission and I don’t want to go. I’ve honestly never taken church that seriously or had much interest in church from a young age and desperately don’t want to do this s!@&. My family kinda pressured me to do it because I’m the oldest in boy my family and the oldest grandchild in my extended family (Basic Mormon Utah family but liberal) and they also offered me more college money if I decided to go. I really like my family (for the most part) and didn’t want to lose my good relationship with them by straight up telling them I don’t want to go on a mission and have no interest in the church. I would definitely have weaseled out of it saying I didn’t think it was right for me except for the dumb @#$ prophet said that “every able bodied young man must go on a mission” or whatever the $&@!. Idk I’m honestly really out of touch with church stuff have never read the whole Book of Mormon and I’m probably @#$%&%! once I get to the MTC and field. Idk what I’m going to do. I’ve put this off so long and I’m such an idiot for it. There is no way in hell I last the full two years and my current plan is to fake depression for a couple months and come home early or just continue the way I’m going and get legitimately depressed and come home after a couple months. I have no idea what the %#@$ to do and I’m losing it right now.

If anyone has any good ideas please tell me what to do I appreciate it so much. I’ll still have my phone tomorrow so I can check it again.”
So incredibly sad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ow_and_im/

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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Mamabear wrote: October 16th, 2022, 6:53 am It seems like many parents are for taking their kids agency away, forcing them to do things they don't want to:

“I’m going on my mission and I don’t want to go. I’ve honestly never taken church that seriously or had much interest in church from a young age and desperately don’t want to do this s!@&. My family kinda pressured me to do it because I’m the oldest in boy my family and the oldest grandchild in my extended family (Basic Mormon Utah family but liberal) and they also offered me more college money if I decided to go. I really like my family (for the most part) and didn’t want to lose my good relationship with them by straight up telling them I don’t want to go on a mission and have no interest in the church. I would definitely have weaseled out of it saying I didn’t think it was right for me except for the dumb @#$ prophet said that “every able bodied young man must go on a mission” or whatever the $&@!. Idk I’m honestly really out of touch with church stuff have never read the whole Book of Mormon and I’m probably @#$%&%! once I get to the MTC and field. Idk what I’m going to do. I’ve put this off so long and I’m such an idiot for it. There is no way in hell I last the full two years and my current plan is to fake depression for a couple months and come home early or just continue the way I’m going and get legitimately depressed and come home after a couple months. I have no idea what the %#@$ to do and I’m losing it right now.

If anyone has any good ideas please tell me what to do I appreciate it so much. I’ll still have my phone tomorrow so I can check it again.”
So incredibly sad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ow_and_im/
I think the LDS has things the wrong way round. Missions are seen as mainly converting the missionaries themselves, but an unenthusiastic missionary is not a good missionary. A missionary is for reaching out to those who have never heard the gospel properly or never had a chance to accept it.

Sending a child on a mission is a very expensive way of converting a child and may backfire.

onefour1
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by onefour1 »

I have had two boys who chose not to go on missions. As a father, I really wanted them to go on a mission and experience that in their life. However they did not make that choice and I have to respect their free will to choose. I often look back and ask what could I have done differently to have influenced my boys to have chosen to go on missions. Raising children is a learning experience not only for the children but for we parents. Parenting is something you go into without much experience and look to others who have gone before as examples. There is much to learn in taking on the responsibility of parenthood. Looking back I think it would have been wiser if I would have given my boys more self responsibility and allowed them to make difficult choices. Upon making mistakes, I could have explained and counselled them more one some of their decisions. Many times we as parent tend to simply command our children what to do and even enforce that they do it. This is not always wrong, but at some point they do have to become free will agents unto themselves and need to be raised to take on responsibility to make hard choices. Maybe by learning to make good choices from hard decisions, they more than likely make more right choices in their lives. This is no guarantee that they will always make the right choice, but we can't stand over them the rest of our lives and tell and force them what to do. At some point we as parents need to get away from being their commanding officer and let them make choices and mistakes so that they can learn from them. Just my humble opinion.

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