Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

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Being There
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Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

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David13
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Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

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I'm just getting near the end of "Poisoner in Chief", 'Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control'.

Very good, Stephen Kinzer.

Of course, he ends with "well, they realized they couldn't do it, so they gave up".

Who in hell would be stupid enough to believe that? When did anyone ever give up such an evil scheme. My thought is that today they have much perfected it.
dc

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David13
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Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

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I guess the other crazy thing that strikes my mind is how many and how extensive the naivety amongst Mormons for them to never realize the evil plots their own government can come up with.
dc

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notjamesbond003.5
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Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

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David13 wrote: September 21st, 2022, 10:39 pm I guess the other crazy thing that strikes my mind is how many and how extensive the naivety amongst Mormons for them to never realize the evil plots their own government can come up with.
dc
Mainstream LDSers have had decades of mind control being done to them and don’t even realize it -similar to Scientology, so when you even bring up mind control, mk ultra, monarch etc they’re kinda numb to it. Can’t wrap their brains around the subject.


Njb

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Being There
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Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

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as I've commented before to someone

"hate to say it, but I really think you're delusional and very narrow minded;
especially when it comes to - what you call a conspiracy.
Like the church and most members, and everyone else, you've fallen for THE SCAM.
(because of the Mormons, everyone knows Utah leads the nation as the scam capital)
You obviously just trust the government and follow blindly,
and haven't ever even bothered to look into the vast amounts of information (from doctors)
on this fake Plannedemic - that was created by evil men - these secret combinations, for the sole purpose
of injecting you with something evil which they disguise as a vaccine -

Mormonville - scam capital of the World

where people love money so much, and are so gullible - they'll believe and
DO ANYTHING TO GET IT !

and as they say "this is just the tip of the iceberg"

MLM or commonly know as" Mormons Losing Money"

Investigating links between Mormonism & MLM

I think this one especially - fits very well.
"2. Money as a blessing. Mormons may not know what the phrase “prosperity gospel” means, but many believe in the principle that if someone has money then they must be blessed by God."

https://religionnews.com/2017/06/20/10- ... companies/

10 reasons Mormons dominate multi-level marketing companies

LipSense, dōTERRA, Nu Skin, Young Living, Nature’s Sunshine, Tahitian Noni/Morinda, Amway, Melaleuca, Neways, Thrive, Xango/Zija, Younique, Jamberry, Unicity.

If these names sound familiar to you, you probably live in Utah, the number one state in the union for multi-level marketing companies.

I admit, I have multiple issues with multi-level marketing. So many people in my ward are into one of the above companies that sometimes it feels like I have to turn someone down every day. I get invitations to “parties” every week, and just when I think one wave is over, a new wave of marketing starts up.

I was first introduced to MLMs when my aunt tried to sell my father on Amway. Then when I was a new mother, an older woman in our ward quickly tried to resolve any difficulty I had with a new baby by hawking a product from her company. And on it went, with wedding showers with an MLM on the side and visiting teaching companions peddling their wares on our visits.

I’m tired of my friendship being used as “downstream” for people who want to make a buck. I’m also tired of trying to explain science to friends who think that one personal experience with an oil or a supplement is sufficient for extolling the virtues of an unverifiable, unscientific claim for healing.

But I’m also very much aware of the reality that Mormon culture breeds these kinds of companies for a variety of reasons. Here are ten:

1. Insularity. Mormons tend to be trusting, especially of other Mormons. We tend to want to believe that other Mormons are good, because surely if they know and believe in the gospel then they want the best for other people and aren’t trying to cheat people out of money.

2. Money as a blessing. Mormons may not know what the phrase “prosperity gospel” means, but many believe in the principle that if someone has money then they must be blessed by God.

3. An unusually high number of SAHMS. Mormons encourage women to stay at home, but these days that leaves many families to struggle for any extra income. It also means that Mormon stay-at-home moms use their time to try to make money for extra things.

4. Easy mobilization. Mormons have a built-in network, complete with phone numbers, physical addresses, and emails. They may not think twice about using this information to send out invitations to their “parties” about a new product/brand that is also an MLM, even if using ward lists for business purposes is against the rules of the church.

5. Door to door experience. Former Mormon missionaries are used to sales techniques. They’re not afraid of rejection and they are sometimes very aggressive.

6. The personal touch. Mormons are used to hearing testimonials and connecting that to “deeper” truth. Some might argue this means Mormons are particularly vulnerable to anecdotal evidence.

7. Big claims. Mormons often hear people scoffing at our religious ideas, our founder, and our scripture. Because we’ve grown accustomed to that, we may be more likely to shrug off criticisms even when we shouldn’t.

8. Top-down structure. Mormons are comfortable with a hierarchical institution where people at the top know more than people at the bottom, and to paying money “up-stream.” I know this may sound like a crude way of describing tithing. But looking at it from the outside, there are certain similarities.

9. Naivete. Mormons have a tendency to believe that they are “chosen” or “special,” and may be more easily led to believe that an opportunity has come to them from God rather than dismissing things that are “too good to be true.”

10. Skimming the surface. Sadly, Mormon church meetings do not lead Mormons to ask hard questions. Instead, we may be more vulnerable to being led to ask the questions that people want us to ask. If a question/answer format is offered, we may not think more deeply.

It’s such a big problem that LDS apostle Dallin Oaks wrote a book about Mormons and Get-Rich-Quick Schemes in 1988, when he worried that members of the Church may be “specially susceptible to materialism.”

More recently, multiple news organizations have also written on the topic (see here and here). But as far as I can tell, there aren’t any significant changes happening.

My Mormon friends, this has to stop. If you are selling something, please don’t confuse that with our church. Don’t use our ward list to target people. Don’t sell your product over friendship with people. You might think it’s not a problem, but it is. I guarantee that you have friends who are pulling away because you are pushing this too hard on them and are having problems distinguishing the gospel from your MLM solutions.

I beg church leaders, bishops especially, to speak from the pulpit on this issue. Please ask ward members to keep MLMs out of church meetings and out of any church connections like home or visiting teaching.

And it would make me happy if you’d spend one of our fifth Sunday meetings on the dangers of MLMs. Bonus points if you can get an actual physician or trained medical professional to help church members learn to distinguish between scientific claims and fake claims. It would also make the ex-Mormons a little less gleeful when there’s another news story about Mormons getting cheated out of their retirement funds—like this one or that one or that one.

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Being There
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Posts: 2868

Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

Post by Being There »

Being There wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 8:46 am as I've commented before to someone

"hate to say it, but I really think you're delusional and very narrow minded;
especially when it comes to - what you call a conspiracy.
Like the church and most members, and everyone else, you've fallen for THE SCAM.
(because of the Mormons, everyone knows Utah leads the nation as the scam capital)
You obviously just trust the government and follow blindly,
and haven't ever even bothered to look into the vast amounts of information (from doctors)
on this fake Plannedemic - that was created by evil men - these secret combinations, for the sole purpose
of injecting you with something evil which they disguise as a vaccine -

Mormonville - scam capital of the World

where people love money so much, and are so gullible - they'll believe and
DO ANYTHING TO GET IT !

and as they say "this is just the tip of the iceberg"

MLM or commonly know as" Mormons Losing Money"

Investigating links between Mormonism & MLM

I think this one especially - fits very well.
"2. Money as a blessing. Mormons may not know what the phrase “prosperity gospel” means, but many believe in the principle that if someone has money then they must be blessed by God."

https://religionnews.com/2017/06/20/10- ... companies/

10 reasons Mormons dominate multi-level marketing companies

LipSense, dōTERRA, Nu Skin, Young Living, Nature’s Sunshine, Tahitian Noni/Morinda, Amway, Melaleuca, Neways, Thrive, Xango/Zija, Younique, Jamberry, Unicity.

If these names sound familiar to you, you probably live in Utah, the number one state in the union for multi-level marketing companies.

I admit, I have multiple issues with multi-level marketing. So many people in my ward are into one of the above companies that sometimes it feels like I have to turn someone down every day. I get invitations to “parties” every week, and just when I think one wave is over, a new wave of marketing starts up.

I was first introduced to MLMs when my aunt tried to sell my father on Amway. Then when I was a new mother, an older woman in our ward quickly tried to resolve any difficulty I had with a new baby by hawking a product from her company. And on it went, with wedding showers with an MLM on the side and visiting teaching companions peddling their wares on our visits.

I’m tired of my friendship being used as “downstream” for people who want to make a buck. I’m also tired of trying to explain science to friends who think that one personal experience with an oil or a supplement is sufficient for extolling the virtues of an unverifiable, unscientific claim for healing.

But I’m also very much aware of the reality that Mormon culture breeds these kinds of companies for a variety of reasons. Here are ten:

1. Insularity. Mormons tend to be trusting, especially of other Mormons. We tend to want to believe that other Mormons are good, because surely if they know and believe in the gospel then they want the best for other people and aren’t trying to cheat people out of money.

2. Money as a blessing. Mormons may not know what the phrase “prosperity gospel” means, but many believe in the principle that if someone has money then they must be blessed by God.

3. An unusually high number of SAHMS. Mormons encourage women to stay at home, but these days that leaves many families to struggle for any extra income. It also means that Mormon stay-at-home moms use their time to try to make money for extra things.

4. Easy mobilization. Mormons have a built-in network, complete with phone numbers, physical addresses, and emails. They may not think twice about using this information to send out invitations to their “parties” about a new product/brand that is also an MLM, even if using ward lists for business purposes is against the rules of the church.

5. Door to door experience. Former Mormon missionaries are used to sales techniques. They’re not afraid of rejection and they are sometimes very aggressive.

6. The personal touch. Mormons are used to hearing testimonials and connecting that to “deeper” truth. Some might argue this means Mormons are particularly vulnerable to anecdotal evidence.

7. Big claims. Mormons often hear people scoffing at our religious ideas, our founder, and our scripture. Because we’ve grown accustomed to that, we may be more likely to shrug off criticisms even when we shouldn’t.

8. Top-down structure. Mormons are comfortable with a hierarchical institution where people at the top know more than people at the bottom, and to paying money “up-stream.” I know this may sound like a crude way of describing tithing. But looking at it from the outside, there are certain similarities.

9. Naivete. Mormons have a tendency to believe that they are “chosen” or “special,” and may be more easily led to believe that an opportunity has come to them from God rather than dismissing things that are “too good to be true.”

10. Skimming the surface. Sadly, Mormon church meetings do not lead Mormons to ask hard questions. Instead, we may be more vulnerable to being led to ask the questions that people want us to ask. If a question/answer format is offered, we may not think more deeply.

It’s such a big problem that LDS apostle Dallin Oaks wrote a book about Mormons and Get-Rich-Quick Schemes in 1988, when he worried that members of the Church may be “specially susceptible to materialism.”

More recently, multiple news organizations have also written on the topic (see here and here). But as far as I can tell, there aren’t any significant changes happening.

My Mormon friends, this has to stop. If you are selling something, please don’t confuse that with our church. Don’t use our ward list to target people. Don’t sell your product over friendship with people. You might think it’s not a problem, but it is. I guarantee that you have friends who are pulling away because you are pushing this too hard on them and are having problems distinguishing the gospel from your MLM solutions.

I beg church leaders, bishops especially, to speak from the pulpit on this issue. Please ask ward members to keep MLMs out of church meetings and out of any church connections like home or visiting teaching.

And it would make me happy if you’d spend one of our fifth Sunday meetings on the dangers of MLMs. Bonus points if you can get an actual physician or trained medical professional to help church members learn to distinguish between scientific claims and fake claims. It would also make the ex-Mormons a little less gleeful when there’s another news story about Mormons getting cheated out of their retirement funds—like this one or that one or that one.
MORMON FRAUD

LYING FOR THE LORD
THE PAUL H. DUNN STORIES
Cult Education Institute
The Mormon Church
https://culteducation.com/group/1057-th ... hurch.html
--------------------------------------

Utah's all-time biggest scams and frauds
https://www.ksl.com/article/46325540/ut ... and-frauds

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BigT
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Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

Post by BigT »

notjamesbond003.5 wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:11 am Mainstream LDSers have had decades of mind control being done to them and don’t even realize it -similar to Scientology, so when you even bring up mind control, mk ultra, monarch etc they’re kinda numb to it. Can’t wrap their brains around the subject.

Njb
"My father had also been instructed to take me to the Governor’s mansion in Mackinac Island, Michigan. Governor George Romney was actively involved in MK Ultra, extending it from the Catholic church to his Mormon church and bringing it into the school systems as what would later become global education.”

“The discussions I’d heard as a child from Michigan’s Governor George Romney regarding the mergence of CIA, Nazi, and Catholic mind control techniques to create a powerful means of control for his Mormon church apparently came to fruition and the devastation was horrific.”

Excerpts From
ACCESS DENIED For Reasons Of National Security: Documented Journey From CIA Mind Control Slave To U.S. Government Whistleblower
Cathy O'Brien

logonbump
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Posts: 791

Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

Post by logonbump »

BigT wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 9:24 am
notjamesbond003.5 wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:11 am Mainstream LDSers have had decades of mind control being done to them and don’t even realize it -similar to Scientology, so when you even bring up mind control, mk ultra, monarch etc they’re kinda numb to it. Can’t wrap their brains around the subject.

Njb
"My father had also been instructed to take me to the Governor’s mansion in Mackinac Island, Michigan. Governor George Romney was actively involved in MK Ultra, extending it from the Catholic church to his Mormon church and bringing it into the school systems as what would later become global education.”

“The discussions I’d heard as a child from Michigan’s Governor George Romney regarding the mergence of CIA, Nazi, and Catholic mind control techniques to create a powerful means of control for his Mormon church apparently came to fruition and the devastation was horrific.”

Excerpts From
ACCESS DENIED For Reasons Of National Security: Documented Journey From CIA Mind Control Slave To U.S. Government Whistleblower
Cathy O'Brien
I served in Michigan, 02-04, and for many non members, George Romney's dynasty was a big obstacle for the church there. I encountered this, Cathy's testimony, in her two books a few years ago and realize we know so very little else about our leaders, except what the scriptures reveal.

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notjamesbond003.5
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Posts: 1840
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Contact:

Re: Exposing Them Slowly: Project MK Ultra

Post by notjamesbond003.5 »

logonbump wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 10:56 pm
BigT wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 9:24 am
notjamesbond003.5 wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:11 am Mainstream LDSers have had decades of mind control being done to them and don’t even realize it -similar to Scientology, so when you even bring up mind control, mk ultra, monarch etc they’re kinda numb to it. Can’t wrap their brains around the subject.

Njb
"My father had also been instructed to take me to the Governor’s mansion in Mackinac Island, Michigan. Governor George Romney was actively involved in MK Ultra, extending it from the Catholic church to his Mormon church and bringing it into the school systems as what would later become global education.”

“The discussions I’d heard as a child from Michigan’s Governor George Romney regarding the mergence of CIA, Nazi, and Catholic mind control techniques to create a powerful means of control for his Mormon church apparently came to fruition and the devastation was horrific.”

Excerpts From
ACCESS DENIED For Reasons Of National Security: Documented Journey From CIA Mind Control Slave To U.S. Government Whistleblower
Cathy O'Brien
I served in Michigan, 02-04, and for many non members, George Romney's dynasty was a big obstacle for the church there. I encountered this, Cathy's testimony, in her two books a few years ago and realize we know so very little else about our leaders, except what the scriptures reveal.

I served there too.
Dearborn-Detroit.
Met George in 1982. Bloomfield Hills Stake Center.

Njb

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