Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
Post Reply
Qlitewski
captain of 10
Posts: 14

Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Qlitewski »

Today Russell.M.Nelson turns 98 years old. What are your thoughts? Has the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint turned into a gerontocracy? Or maybe this is God's will and there is nothing wrong with it?

User avatar
gkearney
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5346

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by gkearney »

Well senior church leadership is clearly a gerontocracy, if there something wrong with that or not as a matter of debate.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Mamabear »

One year older and wiser too? Maybe not.

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13112
Location: England

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Robin Hood »

Qlitewski wrote: September 9th, 2022, 5:36 am Today Russell.M.Nelson turns 98 years old. What are your thoughts? Has the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint turned into a gerontocracy? Or maybe this is God's will and there is nothing wrong with it?
The church has been that way for a long time.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13999

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:13 am
Qlitewski wrote: September 9th, 2022, 5:36 am Today Russell.M.Nelson turns 98 years old. What are your thoughts? Has the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint turned into a gerontocracy? Or maybe this is God's will and there is nothing wrong with it?
The church has been that way for a long time.
I actually saw the LDS specifically highlighted as a a gerontocracy in an article on the subject. The other examples given were East Germany and the USSR.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Luke »

Hard to imagine that Joseph Smith was in his early twenties when he was beginning the Work when you consider the state of things today.

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by EmmaLee »

Didn't he throw himself a great big huge Conference Center birthday bash this year?! Must be mellowing out in his old age.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Robin Hood wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:13 am
Qlitewski wrote: September 9th, 2022, 5:36 am Today Russell.M.Nelson turns 98 years old. What are your thoughts? Has the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint turned into a gerontocracy? Or maybe this is God's will and there is nothing wrong with it?
The church has been that way for a long time.
Sad, really.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13999

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Niemand »

Luke wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:05 am Hard to imagine that Joseph Smith was in his early twenties when he was beginning the Work when you consider the state of things today.
Even as a teenager.

DesertWonderer2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1164

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by DesertWonderer2 »

Niemand wrote: September 9th, 2022, 10:23 am
Luke wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:05 am Hard to imagine that Joseph Smith was in his early twenties when he was beginning the Work when you consider the state of things today.
Even as a teenager.
Both of you are ridiculous. You would prefer today’s 20 something’s or better yet today’s teenagers run things?!?!

In the immortal words of Daffy Duck: Har har har; it is to laugh.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13999

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Niemand »

DesertWonderer2 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 10:32 am
Niemand wrote: September 9th, 2022, 10:23 am
Luke wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:05 am Hard to imagine that Joseph Smith was in his early twenties when he was beginning the Work when you consider the state of things today.
Even as a teenager.
Both of you are ridiculous. You would prefer today’s 20 something’s or better yet today’s teenagers run things?!?!

In the immortal words of Daffy Duck: Har har har; it is to laugh.
We're talking about historical facts.

What we need is spiritual worthiness and leadership. That can manifest at any age... or indeed none...

Grey hairs mean you've experience, but they don't always mean you're necessarily wise. Look at all the grey haired people who were pushing the Covid shtic far beyond what it needed to be.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

DesertWonderer2 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 10:32 am
Both of you are ridiculous. You would prefer today’s 20 something’s or better yet today’s teenagers run things?!?!

In the immortal words of Daffy Duck: Har har har; it is to laugh.
You are forgetting the capabilities of the generations before us. These men were far more mature spiritually than almost all of the men who claim to be PSRs today. I mean, just look at Moroni, called to be the commander of an army at the age of 16.

I will also add, I know many 20-somethings who are far more capable of discerning and defending truth than all of our PSRs combined. Let that sink in.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13999

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Niemand »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 11:22 am
DesertWonderer2 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 10:32 am
Both of you are ridiculous. You would prefer today’s 20 something’s or better yet today’s teenagers run things?!?!

In the immortal words of Daffy Duck: Har har har; it is to laugh.
You are forgetting the capabilities of the generations before us. These men were far more mature spiritually than almost all of the men who claim to be PSRs today. I mean, just look at Moroni, called to be the commander of an army at the age of 16.

I will also add, I know many 20-somethings who are far more capable of discerning and defending truth than all of our PSRs combined. Let that sink in.
Jesus died in his early thirties. There are numerous others who changed the course of history before that age. Joan of Arc & Alexander the Great to name but two.

If God wishes, he can and will use the young. Many of the great prophets were martyred before they could reach old age or even middle age.

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by onefour1 »

I believe that as long as the Lord is ok with it, I am ok with it.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:39 pm I believe that as long as the Lord is ok with it, I am ok with it.
What is "it" that you think the Lord is ok with?

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by onefour1 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:59 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:39 pm I believe that as long as the Lord is ok with it, I am ok with it.
What is "it" that you think the Lord is ok with?
gerontocracy

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:34 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:59 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:39 pm I believe that as long as the Lord is ok with it, I am ok with it.
What is "it" that you think the Lord is ok with?
gerontocracy
Ah, gotcha. That's one of the biggest cons of the LDS church. Just because a leader says something, we think the Lord is ok with what they say and do. The Lord picks prophets, not seniority.

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by onefour1 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:36 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:34 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:59 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:39 pm I believe that as long as the Lord is ok with it, I am ok with it.
What is "it" that you think the Lord is ok with?
gerontocracy
Ah, gotcha. That's one of the biggest cons of the LDS church. Just because a leader says something, we think the Lord is ok with what they say and do. The Lord picks prophets, not seniority.
If God would have wanted old people not to run the church, he would have made a rule about it when it was set up by him in this last dispensation. There is succession in the ranks of the church and if the president become disabled or unable to fulfill his position, those who are next in line fill in the slot. I think the Lord has it covered.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:43 pm If God would have wanted old people not to run the church, he would have made a rule about it when it was set up by him in this last dispensation. There is succession in the ranks of the church and if the president become disabled or unable to fulfill his position, those who are next in line fill in the slot. I think the Lord has it covered.
That's just the thing.. He didn't. Men did. Again, the church has been conned. Do a little more research as to how the philosophy of succession came about.

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by onefour1 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:58 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:43 pm If God would have wanted old people not to run the church, he would have made a rule about it when it was set up by him in this last dispensation. There is succession in the ranks of the church and if the president become disabled or unable to fulfill his position, those who are next in line fill in the slot. I think the Lord has it covered.
That's just the thing.. He didn't. Men did. Again, the church has been conned. Do a little more research as to how the philosophy of succession came about.
I don't see a difference of how Jesus set up leaders in his church back in the first century A.D. as compared to how he set it up through the prophet Joseph Smith. I am not a proponent of the infallibility of the prophet or apostles, but even Jesus trusted men enough to give them authority in the church and allowed them to rule. Why would old age be a factor in being a leader in the church?

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 2:54 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:58 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:43 pm If God would have wanted old people not to run the church, he would have made a rule about it when it was set up by him in this last dispensation. There is succession in the ranks of the church and if the president become disabled or unable to fulfill his position, those who are next in line fill in the slot. I think the Lord has it covered.
That's just the thing.. He didn't. Men did. Again, the church has been conned. Do a little more research as to how the philosophy of succession came about.
I don't see a difference of how Jesus set up leaders in his church back in the first century A.D. as compared to how he set it up through the prophet Joseph Smith. I am not a proponent of the infallibility of the prophet or apostles, but even Jesus trusted men enough to give them authority in the church and allowed them to rule. Why would old age be a factor in being a leader in the church?
It's not simply "old age", but the succession, that's where the problem is. Not to mention, ancient prophets almost universally passed on the leadership roles BEFORE they died, not at the time of passing.

4Joshua8
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2369

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by 4Joshua8 »

onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 2:54 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:58 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:43 pm If God would have wanted old people not to run the church, he would have made a rule about it when it was set up by him in this last dispensation. There is succession in the ranks of the church and if the president become disabled or unable to fulfill his position, those who are next in line fill in the slot. I think the Lord has it covered.
That's just the thing.. He didn't. Men did. Again, the church has been conned. Do a little more research as to how the philosophy of succession came about.
I don't see a difference of how Jesus set up leaders in his church back in the first century A.D. as compared to how he set it up through the prophet Joseph Smith. I am not a proponent of the infallibility of the prophet or apostles, but even Jesus trusted men enough to give them authority in the church and allowed them to rule. Why would old age be a factor in being a leader in the church?
Worldly reasons could be given that any age has its assets and liabilities. Perhaps a better question is why have the church leaders limited church leadership to ONLY old men?

And the way it operates now, God could completely withdraw Himself and the line of succession would keep going..... It's like it got set to auto pilot. No revelation required. Just don't die.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

The more nefarious aspect to this is all you have to do is knock off all of the old guys ahead of you and you're in the driver's seat. Sounds eerily familiar to Wendy Nelson's "unleashed" comment w/ regards to her husband.

User avatar
Fred
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7611
Location: Zion

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Fred »

Which prophets since Adam and Eve were not called by God or Jesus in person, except for every one after Joseph Smith?

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15317
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Fred wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:33 pm Which prophets since Adam and Eve were not called by God or Jesus in person, except for every one after Joseph Smith?
I think it depends upon your definition of "prophet." The transition from King Benjamin to his son Mosiah was a passing of the calling of High Priest but he could be defined as a "prophet" given the 4th definition below. But we also have King Benjamin's words as to why his son was chosen to lead. Detractors could claim that as nepotism.

Prophet
1: one who utters divinely inspired revelations
2: one gifted with more than ordinary spiritual and moral insight
3: one who foretells future events
4: an effective or leading spokesman for a cause, doctrine, or group

Post Reply