Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I do know that in Native American tradition their Council received a witness from the Holy Ghost as to who the next High Priest (or Priestess) would be. All of this was governed by the Spirit. And they almost never waited until a person died before a transition of leadership.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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4Joshua8 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:10 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 2:54 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:58 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:43 pm If God would have wanted old people not to run the church, he would have made a rule about it when it was set up by him in this last dispensation. There is succession in the ranks of the church and if the president become disabled or unable to fulfill his position, those who are next in line fill in the slot. I think the Lord has it covered.
That's just the thing.. He didn't. Men did. Again, the church has been conned. Do a little more research as to how the philosophy of succession came about.
I don't see a difference of how Jesus set up leaders in his church back in the first century A.D. as compared to how he set it up through the prophet Joseph Smith. I am not a proponent of the infallibility of the prophet or apostles, but even Jesus trusted men enough to give them authority in the church and allowed them to rule. Why would old age be a factor in being a leader in the church?
Worldly reasons could be given that any age has its assets and liabilities. Perhaps a better question is why have the church leaders limited church leadership to ONLY old men?

And the way it operates now, God could completely withdraw Himself and the line of succession would keep going..... It's like it got set to auto pilot. No revelation required. Just don't die.
You nailed it 100%.

This is exactly how things went in the church during past apostasies. The functions were all still there, but the captain jumped ship a while back.

onefour1
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Fred wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:33 pm Which prophets since Adam and Eve were not called by God or Jesus in person, except for every one after Joseph Smith?
Mathias

onefour1
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:01 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:10 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 2:54 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:58 pm
That's just the thing.. He didn't. Men did. Again, the church has been conned. Do a little more research as to how the philosophy of succession came about.
I don't see a difference of how Jesus set up leaders in his church back in the first century A.D. as compared to how he set it up through the prophet Joseph Smith. I am not a proponent of the infallibility of the prophet or apostles, but even Jesus trusted men enough to give them authority in the church and allowed them to rule. Why would old age be a factor in being a leader in the church?
Worldly reasons could be given that any age has its assets and liabilities. Perhaps a better question is why have the church leaders limited church leadership to ONLY old men?

And the way it operates now, God could completely withdraw Himself and the line of succession would keep going..... It's like it got set to auto pilot. No revelation required. Just don't die.
You nailed it 100%.

This is exactly how things went in the church during past apostasies. The functions were all still there, but the captain jumped ship a while back.
So are you inferring that Jesus set up a faulty system and that he jumped ship? Not sure what you are getting at.

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Fred
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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What would it take for people today to have confidence that the prophet really is?

Reveal an actual revelation including Thus saith the Lord?
Admit to lies about masks and shots and promise only truth in the future?
Admit that firing Eldrid Smith was done without authority?
Admission that Isaiah is true?
Pull all support for WEF and UN?
Admission that BLM is purely satanic and their donations went directly to satan?
Pulling the recommends of all democrats?


or is the list too long and only a complete apology and resignation of all Q15 the only way possible, outside of Jesus taking over personally?

onefour1
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by onefour1 »

Fred wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:19 pm What would it take for people today to have confidence that the prophet really is?

Reveal an actual revelation including Thus saith the Lord?
Admit to lies about masks and shots and promise only truth in the future?
Admit that firing Eldrid Smith was done without authority?
Admission that Isaiah is true?
Pull all support for WEF and UN?
Admission that BLM is purely satanic and their donations went directly to satan?
Pulling the recommends of all democrats?


or is the list too long and only a complete apology and resignation of all Q15 the only way possible, outside of Jesus taking over personally?
I like the 5th one on the list.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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EmmaLee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:12 am Didn't he throw himself a great big huge Conference Center birthday bash this year?! Must be mellowing out in his old age.
President Hinckley did something similar for his 95th birthday...I imagine if he cracks a hundred years old there will definitely be a celebration.

EmmaLee
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Subcomandante wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:38 pm
EmmaLee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:12 am Didn't he throw himself a great big huge Conference Center birthday bash this year?! Must be mellowing out in his old age.
President Hinckley did something similar for his 95th birthday...I imagine if he cracks a hundred years old there will definitely be a celebration.
It was just as shameful for Hinckley to do that, too. Pay extra tithing Subcomandante so he can throw himself an extra special 100th.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Subcomandante wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:38 pm
EmmaLee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:12 am Didn't he throw himself a great big huge Conference Center birthday bash this year?! Must be mellowing out in his old age.
President Hinckley did something similar for his 95th birthday...I imagine if he cracks a hundred years old there will definitely be a celebration.
Sad it was done that time too. No money from the church should be used to celebrate anyone, no matter the calling.

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:17 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:01 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:10 pm
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 2:54 pm

I don't see a difference of how Jesus set up leaders in his church back in the first century A.D. as compared to how he set it up through the prophet Joseph Smith. I am not a proponent of the infallibility of the prophet or apostles, but even Jesus trusted men enough to give them authority in the church and allowed them to rule. Why would old age be a factor in being a leader in the church?
Worldly reasons could be given that any age has its assets and liabilities. Perhaps a better question is why have the church leaders limited church leadership to ONLY old men?

And the way it operates now, God could completely withdraw Himself and the line of succession would keep going..... It's like it got set to auto pilot. No revelation required. Just don't die.
You nailed it 100%.

This is exactly how things went in the church during past apostasies. The functions were all still there, but the captain jumped ship a while back.
So are you inferring that Jesus set up a faulty system and that he jumped ship? Not sure what you are getting at.
He set up His church, but men still have their agency. What does D&C 121 say about the keys of the priesthood? If anyone with the priesthood uses their position for unrighteous dominion, amen to the authority of that man. Jesus has stopped communicating with these men. The last president of the church that I have found (correct me if I'm wrong) that wrote down the words of Jesus Christ was President Woodruff.

Christianlee
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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It doesn’t make any difference how old they are. The Church seems to be run by lawyers and MBAs. I wonder if they even write their conference talks. Public relations trumps revelation. Their main goal now seems to be to sound reasonable. For example their position on abortion attempts to be all things to all people. So congrats to President Nelson on surviving so long, but I don’t know what he is doing to inspire anyone.

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:14 pm
Fred wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:33 pm Which prophets since Adam and Eve were not called by God or Jesus in person, except for every one after Joseph Smith?
Mathias
He was more of an apostle than a prophet, no?

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Subcomandante
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Christianlee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:34 pm It doesn’t make any difference how old they are. The Church seems to be run by lawyers and MBAs. I wonder if they even write their conference talks. Public relations trumps revelation. Their main goal now seems to be to sound reasonable. For example their position on abortion attempts to be all things to all people. So congrats to President Nelson on surviving so long, but I don’t know what he is doing to inspire anyone.
The abortion question is actually very clear and represents the most merciful path for everyone.

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Niemand
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Niemand »

I wonder whether President Nelson is annoyed at the death of a very well known, elderly lady overshadowing his birthday celebrations?

It's alright though, the church website is ignoring it, even though it's one of the big news stories of the last couple of days.
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Christianlee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:34 pm It doesn’t make any difference how old they are. The Church seems to be run by lawyers and MBAs. I wonder if they even write their conference talks. Public relations trumps revelation. Their main goal now seems to be to sound reasonable. For example their position on abortion attempts to be all things to all people. So congrats to President Nelson on surviving so long, but I don’t know what he is doing to inspire anyone.
Writing their conference talks would be significant, but we do know that some of them have had their temple dedicatory prayers written by people. A woman who was a writer for the church (she's now since left the church) actually said she wrote one of Elder Gong's dedicatory prayers.

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Subcomandante wrote: September 10th, 2022, 6:46 am
Christianlee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:34 pm It doesn’t make any difference how old they are. The Church seems to be run by lawyers and MBAs. I wonder if they even write their conference talks. Public relations trumps revelation. Their main goal now seems to be to sound reasonable. For example their position on abortion attempts to be all things to all people. So congrats to President Nelson on surviving so long, but I don’t know what he is doing to inspire anyone.
The abortion question is actually very clear and represents the most merciful path for everyone.
Except for the dead baby... they kind of got the short end of the stick. I know we've rehashed this on the forum, but the church should come out and say that there is almost no reason to have an abortion, NONE. The only instance I can think of is if the life of the mother is in danger during childbirth. Even for rape, all efforts should be made to save the child. The child is the innocent party in all of this. Plus, the woman who was viciously traumatized will then go through more trauma in the abortion. Do we not believe Christ can heal all wounds?

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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EmmaLee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:41 pm
Subcomandante wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:38 pm
EmmaLee wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:12 am Didn't he throw himself a great big huge Conference Center birthday bash this year?! Must be mellowing out in his old age.
President Hinckley did something similar for his 95th birthday...I imagine if he cracks a hundred years old there will definitely be a celebration.
It was just as shameful for Hinckley to do that, too. Pay extra tithing Subcomandante so he can throw himself an extra special 100th.
If he doesn't make it to 100 I say we do a "Weekend at Bernies" with him.

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Narnia »

Isn’t our life in the hand of God? If God wants or allows someone to die, he won’t live. If God wants someone to live, he can’t die; such an example as Job in the Old Testament. That’s how God chooses his prophet on earth today! According to the seniority of the apostles, the one outlived others would be the one God choose to be his prophet on earth.

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Narnia wrote: September 10th, 2022, 11:54 am Isn’t our life in the hand of God? If God wants or allows someone to die, he won’t live. If God wants someone to live, he can’t die; such an example as Job in the Old Testament. That’s how God chooses his prophet on earth today! According to the seniority of the apostles, the one outlived others would be the one God choose to be his prophet on earth.
I'm not sure how involved God was in that policy change.

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Wolfwoman wrote: September 10th, 2022, 2:29 am
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:14 pm
Fred wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:33 pm Which prophets since Adam and Eve were not called by God or Jesus in person, except for every one after Joseph Smith?
Mathias
He was more of an apostle than a prophet, no?
My understanding is that all Apostles are also Prophets. I believe they are all prophets, seers, and revelators if I'm not mistaken.

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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Narnia wrote: September 10th, 2022, 11:54 am Isn’t our life in the hand of God? If God wants or allows someone to die, he won’t live. If God wants someone to live, he can’t die; such an example as Job in the Old Testament. That’s how God chooses his prophet on earth today! According to the seniority of the apostles, the one outlived others would be the one God choose to be his prophet on earth.

Can you show me in the scriptures where this process for selection is taught by the Lord?

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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onefour1 wrote: September 10th, 2022, 12:31 pm
Wolfwoman wrote: September 10th, 2022, 2:29 am
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:14 pm
Fred wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:33 pm Which prophets since Adam and Eve were not called by God or Jesus in person, except for every one after Joseph Smith?
Mathias
He was more of an apostle than a prophet, no?
My understanding is that all Apostles are also Prophets. I believe they are all prophets, seers, and revelators if I'm not mistaken.
That's what the Church teaches.

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by Wolfwoman »

onefour1 wrote: September 10th, 2022, 12:31 pm
Wolfwoman wrote: September 10th, 2022, 2:29 am
onefour1 wrote: September 9th, 2022, 4:14 pm
Fred wrote: September 9th, 2022, 3:33 pm Which prophets since Adam and Eve were not called by God or Jesus in person, except for every one after Joseph Smith?
Mathias
He was more of an apostle than a prophet, no?
My understanding is that all Apostles are also Prophets. I believe they are all prophets, seers, and revelators if I'm not mistaken.
Why not just call them all seers, if that's the case? It seems to cover the gamut.

Mosiah 8:15 And the king said that a seer is greater than a prophet.

16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.

17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.

Narnia
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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

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InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 10th, 2022, 12:32 pm
Narnia wrote: September 10th, 2022, 11:54 am Isn’t our life in the hand of God? If God wants or allows someone to die, he won’t live. If God wants someone to live, he can’t die; such an example as Job in the Old Testament. That’s how God chooses his prophet on earth today! According to the seniority of the apostles, the one outlived others would be the one God choose to be his prophet on earth.

Can you show me in the scriptures where this process for selection is taught by the Lord?
Which scriptures in the Bible tell Joseph Smith all the churches at that time are false? It’s the James 1:5 inspired him to go to pray and asked God himself, wasn’t it? Joseph Smith didn’t get his answer through Bible. Instead, he received his answer through the direct revelation from Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ! Without it, the God’s true church wouldn’t have been restored. Continual revelations through God’s chosen prophets to guide his church is necessary.
Many years ago, I pondered why the most senior apostle became the prophet (president) of the church when current prophet die. How does this tradition or setting has to do with God choosing his prophet? Then, the answer came to me. That answer is that our life is in God’s hand and he decides who outlive other apostles. President Nelson was chosen to be the Lord’s prophet by outlive president Packer or Elder Perry. President Packer and Elder Perry were called to the other side of the veil and they have different mission there. We all have different personalities, background, and experiences and the Lord chose president Nelson to guide his church in this difficult time on earth.
We do not gain our testimony by auguring or debating. I suggest to read Book of Mormon daily and pray with sincere and humble heart and to ask Heavenly Father whatever the concern you may have. The testimony will come. Put politics aside. No need to attack our church leaders.

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Re: Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Narnia wrote: September 10th, 2022, 2:03 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 10th, 2022, 12:32 pm
Narnia wrote: September 10th, 2022, 11:54 am Isn’t our life in the hand of God? If God wants or allows someone to die, he won’t live. If God wants someone to live, he can’t die; such an example as Job in the Old Testament. That’s how God chooses his prophet on earth today! According to the seniority of the apostles, the one outlived others would be the one God choose to be his prophet on earth.

Can you show me in the scriptures where this process for selection is taught by the Lord?
Which scriptures in the Bible tell Joseph Smith all the churches at that time are false? It’s the James 1:5 inspired him to go to pray and asked God himself, wasn’t it? Joseph Smith didn’t get his answer through Bible. Instead, he received his answer through the direct revelation from Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ! Without it, the God’s true church wouldn’t have been restored. Continual revelations through God’s chosen prophets to guide his church is necessary.
Many years ago, I pondered why the most senior apostle became the prophet (president) of the church when current prophet die. How does this tradition or setting has to do with God choosing his prophet? Then, the answer came to me. That answer is that our life is in God’s hand and he decides who outlive other apostles. President Nelson was chosen to be the Lord’s prophet by outlive president Packer or Elder Perry. President Packer and Elder Perry were called to the other side of the veil and they have different mission there. We all have different personalities, background, and experiences and the Lord chose president Nelson to guide his church in this difficult time on earth.
We do not gain our testimony by auguring or debating. I suggest to read Book of Mormon daily and pray with sincere and humble heart and to ask Heavenly Father whatever the concern you may have. The testimony will come. Put politics aside. No need to attack our church leaders.
So, in other words, it's not there. You know what's in there though?

A good tree cannot produce corrupt fruit.

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