Russell M. Nelson turns 98 today

[LDS Watchman]

The brethren don’t produce prophetic fruit. It’s as simple as that.

People who have read my posts know that I don’t have “an axe to grind” or whatever, because I don’t. I don’t let the brethren’s actions affect me because I’m simply not bothered. I live my religion according to the dictates of my own conscience. Sometimes I weigh in on something they’ve said or done but again, I don’t really care all that much.

I realised a while ago that there’s no point criticising their actions. I don’t agree with some of their actions, but I try not to criticise them for it. Why? Because I don’t know the reason for everything. Maybe there are reasons they are doing such things.

I would much rather criticise them from a doctrinal standpoint (i.e. point out that they don’t permit plural marriage or don’t administer second anointings as an essential ordinance, among other things). This, I feel, constitutes a much stronger argument, because when comparing their teachings against Joseph Smith’s teachings, they are clearly wrong.

But at the end of the day, if you want to know whether a man is a prophet, a seer, and a revelator, you will be able to tell based on them doing the following things:

1. Exercising the gift of prophecy
2. Exercising the gift of seership
3. Exercising the gift of revelation

It’s just about as simple as that. Do the current leaders of the LDS Church show such fruit?

No, they do not.

Hence, no-one is bound to accept them as what they claim to be, because the fruit simply isn’t there.

People can perform all the mental gymnastics they want, but the current leaders do not display the actual fruits of actual prophets, actual seers, and actual revelators.

If your argument is that the brethren do not manifest the fruits of prophecy, seership, and revelation at the same level as Joseph Smith and many prophets in the scriptures did, I think few will disagree. This however does not mean that they don't manifest them at all.

And let's assume for arguments sake that they do not in fact manifest these fruits at all, that would be a far cry from making false prophecies and working false miracles in the name of Christ.

[Silver Pie]

Happy 98 birthday (yesterday) President Nelson!

He's my senior by 38 years and about 2 days.

Wow! I thought you were a kid (in your 30s).

[Luke]

The brethren don’t produce prophetic fruit. It’s as simple as that.

People who have read my posts know that I don’t have “an axe to grind” or whatever, because I don’t. I don’t let the brethren’s actions affect me because I’m simply not bothered. I live my religion according to the dictates of my own conscience. Sometimes I weigh in on something they’ve said or done but again, I don’t really care all that much.

I realised a while ago that there’s no point criticising their actions. I don’t agree with some of their actions, but I try not to criticise them for it. Why? Because I don’t know the reason for everything. Maybe there are reasons they are doing such things.

I would much rather criticise them from a doctrinal standpoint (i.e. point out that they don’t permit plural marriage or don’t administer second anointings as an essential ordinance, among other things). This, I feel, constitutes a much stronger argument, because when comparing their teachings against Joseph Smith’s teachings, they are clearly wrong.

But at the end of the day, if you want to know whether a man is a prophet, a seer, and a revelator, you will be able to tell based on them doing the following things:

1. Exercising the gift of prophecy
2. Exercising the gift of seership
3. Exercising the gift of revelation

It’s just about as simple as that. Do the current leaders of the LDS Church show such fruit?

No, they do not.

Hence, no-one is bound to accept them as what they claim to be, because the fruit simply isn’t there.

People can perform all the mental gymnastics they want, but the current leaders do not display the actual fruits of actual prophets, actual seers, and actual revelators.

If your argument is that the brethren do not manifest the fruits of prophecy, seership, and revelation at the same level as Joseph Smith and many prophets in the scriptures did, I think few will disagree. This however does not mean that they don't manifest them at all.

And let's assume for arguments sake that they do not in fact manifest these fruits at all, that would be a far cry from making false prophecies and working false miracles in the name of Christ.

I never claimed that they were working false miracles and making false prophecies.

I said that they displayed zero fruits of PSRs (which they verifiably have not).

[LDS Watchman]

I never claimed that they were working false miracles and making false prophecies.

I never said you claimed this, but InfoWarrior82 sure did and you appeared to rush to his defense with your "mental gymnastics" accusation against those who defend the brethren.

I said that they displayed zero fruits of PSRs (which they verifiably have not).

Your entitled to your opinion, but many people disagree with you and they aren't all blind sheep either. There are lots of fruits believers can point to to challenge your claim.

[blitzinstripes]

The more nefarious aspect to this is all you have to do is knock off all of the old guys ahead of you and you're in the driver's seat. Sounds eerily familiar to Wendy Nelson's "unleashed" comment w/ regards to her husband.

Agreed. And since you mentioned it there are actually some pretty convincing theories out there in regards to the sudden deaths of Hunter and Benson, and perhaps a few others.

[blitzinstripes]

Isn’t our life in the hand of God? If God wants or allows someone to die, he won’t live. If God wants someone to live, he can’t die; such an example as Job in the Old Testament. That’s how God chooses his prophet on earth today! According to the seniority of the apostles, the one outlived others would be the one God choose to be his prophet on earth.

Can we put them in a barn with a bunch of knives and let them fight over it, like they did in Joseph's last dream?

[Silver Pie]

Agreed. And since you mentioned it there are actually some pretty convincing theories out there in regards to the sudden deaths of Hunter and Benson, and perhaps a few others.

Monson? Kimball?

[Redpilled Mormon]

Hard to imagine that Joseph Smith was in his early twenties when he was beginning the Work when you consider the state of things today.

Even as a teenager.

Both of you are ridiculous. You would prefer today’s 20 something’s or better yet today’s teenagers run things?!?!

I would like to have someone who's not a satanic murderous pedophile, but maybe that bar is just unrealistically high. Oh and it would be nice to have a 'prophet' who actually, you know, gives prophesies. Or even one single prophecy. So that we don't continue mangling the English language.

[Redpilled Mormon]

What is "it" that you think the Lord is ok with?

gerontocracy

Ah, gotcha. That's one of the biggest cons of the LDS church. Just because a leader says something, we think the Lord is ok with what they say and do. The Lord picks prophets, not seniority.

If God would have wanted old people not to run the church, he would have made a rule about it when it was set up by him in this last dispensation. There is succession in the ranks of the church and if the president become disabled or unable to fulfill his position, those who are next in line fill in the slot. I think the Lord has it covered.

I would respectively suggest you do a bit of research into how the current ldscorp succession evolved into its current form. Not much 'thus saith the Lord' involved, and a whole lot more of "Brigham does whatever he wants" instead. I feel a bit sorry for Brigham's son; he did so much rule-breaking to try to force his son into being next in line, but it didn't work out, because it turns out all the other gadiantons on the 12 couldn't be trusted not to break the rules themselves. Who could've guessed?

[Redpilled Mormon]

Meanwhile the work continues to move forward...I can and will testify of that...it is moving forward...it is real!

Wait, what? What work is going forward? If you're going to testify of it, you need to give some explanation for what you're asserting and how you know it's true. Just trying to get some clue as to what you're referring to.

[Jason]

Meanwhile the work continues to move forward...I can and will testify of that...it is moving forward...it is real!

Wait, what? What work is going forward? If you're going to testify of it, you need to give some explanation for what you're asserting and how you know it's true. Just trying to get some clue as to what you're referring to.

Missionary work on both sides of the veil....and personal undeniable witness via my involvement in said matters. And it is very cool watching lives change for the better in the process!!!

[Reluctant Watchman]

Our dead care very little about the work going on in LDS temples.

[tdj]

Today Russell.M.Nelson turns 98 years old. What are your thoughts? Has the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint turned into a gerontocracy? Or maybe this is God's will and there is nothing wrong with it?

His birthday has unfortunately been rather overshadowed by the death of the Queen, who was 96

[tdj]

Our dead care very little about the work going on in LDS temples.

Oh that's not true. We have personally heard and seen them waiting for their work to be done.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Our dead care very little about the work going on in LDS temples.

Oh that's not true. We have personally heard and seen them waiting for their work to be done.

I’m not going to discount what you claim to have seen. I cannot support what the LDS endowment has become. It was never intended to be a work for the dead, but for the living. The temple should be a place for open learning and discussion. Just the process of having to jump through 15 hoops (questions) to enter is so wrong.

[Niemand]

Today Russell.M.Nelson turns 98 years old. What are your thoughts? Has the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint turned into a gerontocracy? Or maybe this is God's will and there is nothing wrong with it?

His birthday has unfortunately been rather overshadowed by the death of the Queen, who was 96

Certainly in the Commonwealth (which includes UK, NZ, Oz and Canada), including the cringeworthy tributes by Turdeau. Her funeral may also be one of the most watched events of all time.

In our service yesterday she hogged the limelight, even though some proportion of us are not monarchists. Nothing on Nelson's birthday.

[Niemand]

Our dead care very little about the work going on in LDS temples.

Oh that's not true. We have personally heard and seen them waiting for their work to be done.

I have heard this but never experienced it. Our detractors say they are demons posing as relatives of course.

One sister, now inactive, told me that she had a dream about a lot of people she didn't know thanking her after she had gone to the temple.

[Luke]

I never claimed that they were working false miracles and making false prophecies.

I never said you claimed this, but InfoWarrior82 sure did and you appeared to rush to his defense with your "mental gymnastics" accusation against those who defend the brethren.

I said that they displayed zero fruits of PSRs (which they verifiably have not).

Your entitled to your opinion, but many people disagree with you and they aren't all blind sheep either. There are lots of fruits believers can point to to challenge your claim.

My response has nothing to do with IW82.

Please name some of these fruits.

[Niemand]

Please name some of these fruits.

Well, President Nelson did say to take our vitamins when he made his conference speech.

It turns out vitamins C & D are more safe and effective against Covid than jacking up the serum.

[Mindfields]

So on the one hand you keep shouting about a lack of prophecy and miracles from the brethren, but now you're saying there is prophecy and miracles being done in the name of Christ by the brethren.

That doesn't add up.

...it's that expectation that the neighbor down the street...because he happens to be Bishop or Stake President or something has to act a certain way while giving oneself slack to operate differently...

...ranting away day after day on the internet that the neighbor needs to tear his cloak and march on Washington DC while unwilling to live by the same standard...

Huh? Atticus misunderstood. Just because a person SAYS they have done all these things in the Lord's name, does not mean anything unless they are chosen of Him. They can prophesy all they want in His name, they can do all manner of works in His name, but does not mean it is done by the power or authority of God. (As Christ in this scripture clearly explains.)

Can a good tree produce evil fruit?

What happens to a person's authority if they exercise unrighteous dominion?

You do like to twist the stone so you can grind your ax on it...

Can't say as I've ever read where you were doing something to make a difference...instead just a constant criticism and kicking of the bricks...

Meanwhile the work continues to move forward...I can and will testify of that...it is moving forward...it is real! Whether it's introducing new people to the gospel of Jesus Christ or plowing the ground on the other side of the veil should they choose to go down that road there. The work is real!!! You can be a part of it...or not. Your choice of course.

Stub your toe hard enough and it causes a fall...sometimes you can brush it off, get back up, and move forward. Other times it's more permanent. Certain individual many years ago tried to steady an ark he perceived was in trouble...and that one was quick and permanent...at least for this life.

What a interesting God we have. Lightening bolt to the poor sap that tried to keep his ark from falling but allows the most awful atrocities to occur daily.

[HVDC]

Happy 98 birthday (yesterday) President Nelson!

He's my senior by 38 years and about 2 days.

Wow! I thought you were a kid (in your 30s).

Compared to Nelson.

He is a kid.

Sir H

[HVDC]

...it's that expectation that the neighbor down the street...because he happens to be Bishop or Stake President or something has to act a certain way while giving oneself slack to operate differently...

...ranting away day after day on the internet that the neighbor needs to tear his cloak and march on Washington DC while unwilling to live by the same standard...

Huh? Atticus misunderstood. Just because a person SAYS they have done all these things in the Lord's name, does not mean anything unless they are chosen of Him. They can prophesy all they want in His name, they can do all manner of works in His name, but does not mean it is done by the power or authority of God. (As Christ in this scripture clearly explains.)

Can a good tree produce evil fruit?

What happens to a person's authority if they exercise unrighteous dominion?

You do like to twist the stone so you can grind your ax on it...

Can't say as I've ever read where you were doing something to make a difference...instead just a constant criticism and kicking of the bricks...

Meanwhile the work continues to move forward...I can and will testify of that...it is moving forward...it is real! Whether it's introducing new people to the gospel of Jesus Christ or plowing the ground on the other side of the veil should they choose to go down that road there. The work is real!!! You can be a part of it...or not. Your choice of course.

Stub your toe hard enough and it causes a fall...sometimes you can brush it off, get back up, and move forward. Other times it's more permanent. Certain individual many years ago tried to steady an ark he perceived was in trouble...and that one was quick and permanent...at least for this life.

What a interesting God we have. Lightening bolt to the poor sap that tried to keep his ark from falling but allows the most awful atrocities to occur daily.

Electricity gonna ground.

He wasn't wearing the proper PPE.

The rest was spin to keep OSHA off their backs.

"Act of God."

Sir H

[Vision]

I am so happy because in sacrament meeting one of the speakers showed a picture of RMN holding a birthday card from our ward primary..............................................

[LDS Watchman]

I never claimed that they were working false miracles and making false prophecies.

I never said you claimed this, but InfoWarrior82 sure did and you appeared to rush to his defense with your "mental gymnastics" accusation against those who defend the brethren.

I said that they displayed zero fruits of PSRs (which they verifiably have not).

Your entitled to your opinion, but many people disagree with you and they aren't all blind sheep either. There are lots of fruits believers can point to to challenge your claim.

My response has nothing to do with IW82.

Please name some of these fruits.

Well a big one I see people point to a lot is the brethren implementing Come Follow Me and the home centered church shortly before all the COVID stuff went down.

There are other examples of similar things in recent history.

Then there's the usual admonitions prophets always make to keep the commandments, have faith in Christ, seek a personal relationship with Christ, repent of one's sins, love and serve others, etc., etc. etc..

[DesertWonderer2]

Hard to imagine that Joseph Smith was in his early twenties when he was beginning the Work when you consider the state of things today.

Even as a teenager.

Both of you are ridiculous. You would prefer today’s 20 something’s or better yet today’s teenagers run things?!?!

I would like to have someone who's not a satanic murderous pedophile, but maybe that bar is just unrealistically high. Oh and it would be nice to have a 'prophet' who actually, you know, gives prophesies. Or even one single prophecy. So that we don't continue mangling the English language.

Murderous pedophile? Who? Also please provide support for your claim.