Wow, I don't know if it's actually loco, but this thread has been going crazy, and my mailbox has completely blown-up, especially the last couple days. There is no question that the discussion is definitely starting to hit some serious nerves.
Because obviously some people are still really uncomfortable actually posting here, in this thread, and actually having their username be associated with it, I am going to anonymously share a couple more thoughts that have been shared with me.
I can't hardly believe the timing of this thread. I have been experiencing all of these exact issues for years, mostly just suffering in silence. Finally, I decided I would attempt to really have a serious talk with my wife about it. Not only is she not interested in sex, I actually also want to have more kids, and she’s absolutely not interested in that. At this point she doesn’t want to do anything that might risk changing her figure – which she works real hard to maintain, but certainly not for my benefit. So what’s going on? Anyway, because I’m a very frustrated, but proactive, problem-solving guy, I decided I would just go ahead and try to talk to her about it, and see if we couldn’t come up with a solution to help solve problem. And it’s true, one of my ideas was another wife, that might have more interest in sex, as well as in having more kids. Since none of our other discussions went anywhere, I did eventually bring this up with her, and my wife completely blew a gasket, called me a total psychopath, and just for mentioning it and trying to talk about it, she said she was going to divorce me, and she told all of our kids and all of her family, and our bishop that she was divorcing me, and why. This wasn't just in the heat of the moment. She repeatedly told me that she was divorcing me, and started getting her ducks in a row to do that. At that point, I threw my hands in the air, and said, fine, if that’s what you want to do, I’m not going to try to stop you. I’m not really that interested in going the rest of my life without sex anyway, so I thought, okay, has zero interest in actually trying to solve the problem, then she could just make it go away by getting a divorce. Once she started heading seriously down that path, then I thought okay, then I just as well start making other plans, and figure out what I want to do, so that's what I started to do. And to be completely honest, by that point I was actually starting to feel quite relieved, and started to feel some hope for the future. Then she did a 180 and suddenly came back and said that she was having second thoughts, and now wonders if we can’t patch it all back up again, as long as I never mention polygamy, other women, or bring up sex, again, ever. Literally, what she said was that if I am willing to completely give up any hope of having sex again for the rest of life, she might think about taking me back. What am I supposed to do with that?
And, here's another:
Here’s my problem, I can’t lead my wife. I don’t understand it. In the world of men and business, and the church, I am a leader. I have no problem leading. And I can lead other women, but just not my wife. It has been a 20+ year power struggle over just about everything, but especially money. And of course all of this has serious consequences in the bedroom, where nothing has happened for years. I don’t get it. I provide well for my wife and my family, but my wife refuses to let me lead. She wants to second guess and control everything I want to do to the point that it just isn’t even worth trying to talk about. Which means we can’t really talk about just about anything, especially including sex. Like others have mentioned, as far as she is concerned, that is my problem. What do I do? This is really getting old, and I have no desire to live the rest of my life like this.
So obviously, these aren't just isolated issues or problems. It's real. And I can't imagine that we're even beginning to scratch the tip of the iceberg, but the primary preferred response seems to be to just ignore it, and apparently hope that it will simply blow over and go away.
At this point, based on my life experiences and observations up to this point, I'm going to provide a few observations of my own. As has been stated and/or acknowledged multiple times now, there is a huge tug of war going on between nature and nurture in this whole equation. A man's God-given nature is to want to have sex. As has been observed, that is the case with males of almost all species. For whatever reason, that is they way God created them -- including human males. As my cousin Tmac has observed, that is reality. The other reality is that based on a human female's evolutionary biology, by nature, she wants to be able to control all of this for her benefit and for the benefit of her own offspring. It is that female nature that has been the driving force in developing the societal Nurture that has sought to "domesticate" human males and persuade them to settle down with one female and make a family. And I will be the first to acknowledge that can and does work -- as long as the glue holds. And, like it or not, sex is the primary glue. It is the glue that holds marriages, families and society together. Like it or not, that is reality. That is a self-evident truth. In reality, sex is the most important component in the whole equation. It is the thing that can make or break a marriage, a family, or a society. So when the glue fails, things start to fall apart. Marriages, families and societies fall apart. That too, is reality.
Having said all of that, believe it or not, I actually do agree with Atticus and Sarah, that masturbation can be "sinful." In a perfect, ideal world, it would not happen at all. But, of all the things we do in life, both intentionally and unintentionally, how many of them are actually sinful? Is it more sinful for either a man or a woman to pleasure themself privately than to completely sexualize themself publically? Between masturbation and withholding oneself from one's spouse, which stands the greater chance of hurting someone else? Among the seven cardinal sins of pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony, and sloth, exactly where does masturbation fit on the scale? Many would say "lust," but what if a man is actually lusting for his wife, or a woman for her husband? Is there anything wrong with that?
Compared to completely ignoring and walking past my little Ecuadorian friend, in a wheelchair, with two broken legs, begging for money on the street, which is actually the greater sin, masturbation? Why? Between back-biting and slandering one's neighbor, and/or treating one's fellowmen like dirt, and masturbation, which is the greater sin? We are all sinners, at so many levels. In the overall equation of all the sins, including both those that actually hurt and harm others, and those that don't, where does masturbation fit into the equation -- especially under the conditions and circumstances we have been discussing here. Does anyone really believe that in the overall scheme of things, the atonement is not capable of covering masturbation, as well as every other possible sin?
Now, here's the thing: Another part of a human male's nature is to be a problem solver. That is why he has the greater gift of reason -- to help solve problems. All kinds of problems. Whatever problems arise in life. Life is full of problems. Marriages are full of problems. Families are full of problems. In most cases, and for the most part, it is up to men to solve most of those problems. That is one of their natural, inherent roles. It is simple reality. Reason is better than emotion at solving problems.
In this discussion, we have identified a serious, genuine problem: When the glue fails, marriages, families, and society crumble. That is a reality. So, men, being the problem-solvers that they are, seek to find a solution, even a solution that holds the possibility of preserving and holding the marriage, the family, and society together. But wives and the Church insist, “Sorry men, but you can’t solve this problem. We’re not going to let you.” It’s not just No, but He!! No!" Wives and the Church insist that regardless of what the scriptures say, and regardless of what the Fathers of the Ancient House of Israel did, you can’t solve this problem by practicing plural marriage and taking another wife. And, no, you can't have more children. And, no, you can’t have more sex. Just lump it. The male sex drive is your problem, you deal with it. But, then the Church also says, no, you can't do that either. You can't deal with it. You can't take care of yourself, without putting yourself on a path to go straight to He!!.
That is the dilemma that we are faced with.
Here's the bottom line: I know that some people seem to thing they have all the answers, but I don't have any answers. The more I learn, the less I know. At this point, all I have is questions, and my list of questions is getting longer by the day. And many of them are fairly deep, existential questions. Why did God design and create things things the way He did? Why?
Why did God give men such a strong sex drive? Why did He make their reproductive life expectancy twice as long as most females? Why?
What is God's greatest purpose? Really, what is God's greatest purpose? Is it to see that all His spirit children have an opportunity to experience mortality, and see if they can have a shot at also experiencing immortality and eternal life?
Where and how does the male sex drive fit into that whole equation? Obviously, it is more important that most people are willing to acknowledge, but who pretends to have the answers? I know I don't. But who does? Church leadership? Is the Church a problem solver? What is the Church doing to solve this problem? What are women doing to to solve the problem? Who has the only real skin in the game, incentive, and actual responsibility to solve the problem? The reality is, although this issue — the male sex drive — is actually the elephant in the room that everyone tries to ignore and pretend doesn’t exist, neither women nor the Church have any real incentive to actually address the issue. Women and the Church (that societal nurture that I keep referring to) consider the male sex drive to be a weakness. Instead of it being a God-given gift, and a strength, they consider it to be a weakness that must be overcome. They just want to try to ignore the issue and have it go away, because life would be so much simpler in so many ways if the male sex drive would just go away, or at least start winding down at about age 35, and be completely wound down by age 50-55.
But like it or not, we're actually talking here about an obvious issue that threatens marriages, families and society. Who can fix it? How can it be fixed?
Atticus?
Sarah?
Mamabear?
What are your solutions? Let women have more men to share? Is that your best solution?
I'm sure that's plenty to think about for now.