1 Kings 13 Lesson: If you follow the Prophet INSTEAD of the Spirit, you will die

[Obeone]

1 Kings 13: 8-30 Lesson:
If you follow the Prophet INSTEAD of the Spirit, you will die.

Why?

2 reasons:

1. Prophets make mistakes, the Spirit does not, and
2. More importantly, the Spirit outranks the Prophet, and if you reject the greater authority of God you will die.

This is the lesson God is teaching us with the "safe and effective" statement from the First Presidency recently. Those who follow this advice from the Prophet are unknowingly killing themselves.

But I draw your attention to JST in the above 1 Kings passage. From this is clear that the Lord is the author of this test.

I believe that God allowed the Prophet to give us wrong advice so we may learn this important lesson.

It is my testimony that the Church is true. President Nelson is a true Prophet of God. And this is all a test.

It has been prophesied that the time will come when no one will be able to survive on borrowed light. This time has come.

Cheers.

[Godislove]

In our ward the messaging seems to be you have the right to your own opinions and personal revelation up until the prophet speaks.

[Robin Hood]

In our ward the messaging seems to be you have the right to your own opinions and personal revelation up until the prophet speaks.

I don't think it's just your ward.

[gruden2.0]

1 Kings 13: 8-30 Lesson:
If you follow the Prophet INSTEAD of the Spirit, you will die.

Why?

2 reasons:

1. Prophets make mistakes, the Spirit does not, and
2. More importantly, the Spirit outranks the Prophet, and if you reject the greater authority of God you will die.

This is the lesson God is teaching us with the "safe and effective" statement from the First Presidency recently. Those who follow this advice from the Prophet are unknowingly killing themselves.

But I draw your attention to JST in the above 1 Kings passage. From this is clear that the Lord is the author of this test.

I believe that God allowed the Prophet to give us wrong advice so we may learn this important lesson.

It is my testimony that the Church is true. President Nelson is a true Prophet of God. And this is all a test.

It has been prophesied that the time will come when no one will be able to survive on borrowed light. This time has come.

Cheers.

What is a prophet? He is a messenger. A true prophet delivers a message of glad tidings of the mission, death and resurrection of Jesus and an invitation to take up one's own cross to follow Him. After you receive the message, you should move on in that regard. Joseph encouraged people to seek and receive revelations for themselves, and that by depending too much on him their minds were darkened.

In many ways, Nelson is irrelevant. Even if he is a 'true' prophet, if you rely on him for messages from heaven, your mind and spirit are weak. That's why I'm a bit amused when people warn against relying on 'borrowed light'. Usually those saying that are in fact relying on borrowed light themselves instead of building their own connection to heaven. The stronger your connection to heaven, the less you need a prophet, because you are one for yourself.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

[Obeone]

What is a prophet? He is a messenger. A true prophet delivers a message of glad tidings of the mission, death and resurrection of Jesus and an invitation to take up one's own cross to follow Him. After you receive the message, you should move on in that regard. Joseph encouraged people to seek and receive revelations for themselves, and that by depending too much on him their minds were darkened.

In many ways, Nelson is irrelevant. Even if he is a 'true' prophet, if you rely on him for messages from heaven, your mind and spirit are weak. That's why I'm a bit amused when people warn against relying on 'borrowed light'. Usually those saying that are in fact relying on borrowed light themselves instead of building their own connection to heaven. The stronger your connection to heaven, the less you need a prophet, because you are one for yourself.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Thank you. I agree with you completely. Especially about minds being darkened by relying too much on the Prophet. Joseph was awesome, and he said it very well!

As for your question "What is a prophet?"
In this context it is the man who holds the keys of the kingdom of God on earth. The sealing power, the power to perform valid priesthood ordinances without which no one can be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven.

These keys are held by Nelson and by this Church now. We should give proper deference to this awesome fact.

This said, the Church does not hold monopoly on the truth, but only on the keys.

This is the lesson we are being taught now. Will we respect the keys and follow the direction of the Spirit, even when the Prophet is allowed to test us by giving to us deadly advice?

God wants us to grow up, and to learn this key lesson, without which our minds will be darkened indeed.

Thanks for your post!

[gruden2.0]

As for your question "What is a prophet?"
In this context it is the man who holds the keys of the kingdom of God on earth. The sealing power, the power to perform valid priesthood ordinances without which no one can be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven.

These keys are held by Nelson and by this Church now. We should give proper deference to this awesome fact.

This said, the Church does not hold monopoly on the truth, but only on the keys.

This is the lesson we are being taught now. Will we respect the keys and follow the direction of the Spirit, even when the Prophet is allowed to test us by giving to us deadly advice?

God wants us to grow up, and to learn this key lesson, without which our minds will be darkened indeed.

Thanks for your post!

This is where many Mormons need to de-program themselves. There is way too much emphasis on 'the keys' and really get people derailed. This is the sneaky way where the church gets its hooks in people and creates the dependency, because of course you need someone with the keys, right? Only one guy can have the keys, therefore you need him and can't be by yourself, because you don't get to have them. Having the gifts of prophecy, seership and revelation don't matter so much, because the old men have keys, right? It keeps us from asking too much of them, because we can't prove either way whether they do or don't have some keys, so they can always hold that over people because people say they have them.

What does the Bible or Book of Mormon say about the keys? Nothing? They discuss a lot of other things, arguably much more important.

Here's a dangerous thought: forget about the keys. The Lord will give you everything you need to progress and move forward. He will. Stop worrying about it, your relationship with God doesn't depend on you or someone else having some supposed keys. Your progression is more determined by revelation and faith than keys. Can you do it?

[Chip]

People have become prophet dead-heads because that's how the prophets have trained them to be. I think most people would have a natural inclination for a little more independence, but they have been groomed to become what they are. So, if you must, the same true prophets that are making mistakes now we're doing this over many preceding years.

[gruden2.0]

People have become prophet dead-heads because that's how the prophets have trained them to be. I think most people would have a natural inclination for a little more independence, but they have been groomed to become what they are. So, if you must, the same true prophets that are making mistakes now we're doing this over many preceding years.

For years it always rankled me when someone referred to the Mormon church as a cult. I didn't see it, and even looking back it wasn't really cultish at all. I tell you though, in recent years it's looking a lot more cultish. Family members getting stalked on social media, the growth of the cult of personality of the president, and other odd things we've seen it's really put itself in cult territory. In a way it makes sense, because with the 'Google Apostasy', there's so much cognitive dissonance people have to let themselves be brainwashed to ignore so many things that are or have happened. In that light, correlation makes a lot of sense. Allowing people to process too many things may break the spell.

[Obeone]

This is where many Mormons need to de-program themselves. There is way too much emphasis on 'the keys' and really get people derailed. This is the sneaky way where the church gets its hooks in people and creates the dependency, because of course you need someone with the keys, right? Only one guy can have the keys, therefore you need him and can't be by yourself, because you don't get to have them. Having the gifts of prophecy, seership and revelation don't matter so much, because the old men have keys, right? It keeps us from asking too much of them, because we can't prove either way whether they do or don't have some keys, so they can always hold that over people because people say they have them.

What does the Bible or Book of Mormon say about the keys? Nothing? They discuss a lot of other things, arguably much more important.

Here's a dangerous thought: forget about the keys. The Lord will give you everything you need to progress and move forward. He will. Stop worrying about it, your relationship with God doesn't depend on you or someone else having some supposed keys. Your progression is more determined by revelation and faith than keys. Can you do it?

Nothing? Hardly:

Bible

Matthew 16:18,19 
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Book of Mormon

Helaman. 10:6,7 
6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.
7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.

God's house is a house of order. The keys are real and are no joke. People ignore them at their own peril.

That's my testimony.

[Mamabear]

Follow the Spirit is right. Following men leads us into the ditch…..The blind leading the blind.
Prophets prophesy. We are in the last days and their are no prophecies being foretold by current prophets.
Why is this? Why is it that we can learn more about the last days if we read the second half of the Old Testament than the words of current leaders? It’s easy to see that they do not see the future because they aren’t seers.

[Obeone]

Follow the Spirit is right. Following men leads us into the ditch…..The blind leading the blind.
Prophets prophesy. We are in the last days and their are no prophecies being foretold by current prophets.
Why is this? Why is it that we can learn more about the last days if we read the second half of the Old Testament than the words of current leaders? It’s easy to see that they do not see the future because they aren’t seers.

You have a point. The Church is in the wilderness figuratively speaking. This is why the Church will be cleansed and rebooted soon.

But they still have the keys. The Church is in the wilderness, but not dead. It is the Kingdom of God on earth.

D&C 101:17 
16 Therefore, let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion; for all flesh is in mine hands; be still and know that I am God.
17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered.

Zion the City is still not built, but soon will be

D&C 109
73 That thy church may come forth out of the wilderness of darkness, and shine forth fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners;

2030

[Mamabear]

Follow the Spirit is right. Following men leads us into the ditch…..The blind leading the blind.
Prophets prophesy. We are in the last days and their are no prophecies being foretold by current prophets.
Why is this? Why is it that we can learn more about the last days if we read the second half of the Old Testament than the words of current leaders? It’s easy to see that they do not see the future because they aren’t seers.

You have a point. The Church is in the wilderness figuratively speaking. This is why the Church will be cleansed and rebooted soon.

But they still have the keys. The Church is in the wilderness, but not dead. It is the Kingdom of God on earth.

D&C 101:17 
16 Therefore, let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion; for all flesh is in mine hands; be still and know that I am God.
17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered.

Zion the City is still not built, but soon will be

D&C 109
73 That thy church may come forth out of the wilderness of darkness, and shine forth fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners;

2030

The kingdom of God is not the church. The kingdom of God can reside in us….We are living temples where His Holy Spirit may dwell.
“For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.” Roman’s 14:17

Zion has not come down from heaven yet and won’t until people embrace the truth. The church of the firstborn is not the Mormon church….The church of the firstborn has yet to come down as well.

“And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant, ​which I made unto thy father Enoch; that, when men should keep all my commandments, Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.​
​​​22 ​​And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;​
​​​23 ​​And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.​“ Genesis 9:21-23 JST

[Obeone]

The kingdom of God is not the church.
...
Genesis 9:21-23 JST

Curious, you quote JST, yet do not except the Church as the kingdom of God.
But since you accept JST, you would also accept this:

D&C 42
69 Lift up your hearts and rejoice, for unto you the kingdom, or in other words, the keys of the church have been given. Even so. Amen.

From this it is clear that the kingdom of God is in the keys of the Church. The keys represent authority of God to govern his kingdom on earth.

[John Tavner]

The kingdom of God is not the church.
...
Genesis 9:21-23 JST

Curious, you quote JST, yet do not except the Church as the kingdom of God.
But since you accept JST, you would also accept this:

D&C 42
69 Lift up your hearts and rejoice, for unto you the kingdom, or in other words, the keys of the church have been given. Even so. Amen.

From this it is clear that the kingdom of God is in the keys of the Church. The keys represent authority of God to govern his kingdom on earth.

Key meaning 1828: 6. An index, or that which serves to explain a cypher. Hence,

7. That which serves to explain any thing difficult to be understood.

In other words, Joseph is saying Lift up your hearts and rejoice for unto you the Kingdom, or in other words, the knowledge or understanding of that which has been difficult to understand has been given..

Keys don't mean what we have been taught they mean. D&C 121: No power or influence ought or can be maintained by virtue of the priesthood.... Also, priesthood doesn't mean what we've been taught it means either.
If you control the language you control the narrative, the language was hi-jacked and in turn so has the narrative.

[Obeone]

Key meaning 1828: 6. An index, or that which serves to explain a cypher. Hence,

7. That which serves to explain any thing difficult to be understood.

....
If you control the language you control the narrative, the language was hi-jacked and in turn so has the narrative.

Why did you skip to (6) and (7) instead of starting with (1)?

[John Tavner]

Key meaning 1828: 6. An index, or that which serves to explain a cypher. Hence,

7. That which serves to explain any thing difficult to be understood.

....
If you control the language you control the narrative, the language was hi-jacked and in turn so has the narrative.

Why did you skip to (6) and (7) instead of starting with (1)?

Because it wasn't relevant. 1) is in reference to a literal key. 2) is in reference to a clock key or something similar 3) is in reference to a Keystone 4) is the key on an organ 5) is a musical note

Though I could mention 8) In the Romish church, ecclesiastical jurisdiction, or the power of the pope, or the power of excommunicating or absolving.

[Obeone]

Because it wasn't relevant. 1) is in reference to a literal key. 2) is in reference to a clock key or something similar 3) is in reference to a Keystone 4) is the key on an organ 5) is a musical note

Though I could mention 8) In the Romish church, ecclesiastical jurisdiction, or the power of the pope, or the power of excommunicating or absolving.

What about sealing on earth and in heaven?

What does this scripture mean to you?

D&C 132:7,8
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

[Joan7]

Because it wasn't relevant. 1) is in reference to a literal key. 2) is in reference to a clock key or something similar 3) is in reference to a Keystone 4) is the key on an organ 5) is a musical note

Though I could mention 8) In the Romish church, ecclesiastical jurisdiction, or the power of the pope, or the power of excommunicating or absolving.

What about sealing on earth and in heaven?

What does this scripture mean to you?

D&C 132:7,8
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

Did you know Section 132 was not a part of the Doctrine and Covenants during Joseph's life? It wasn't added until 1876. The history is made up to support polygamy.

[Obeone]

Did you know Section 132 was not a part of the Doctrine and Covenants during Joseph's life? It wasn't added until 1876. The history is made up to support polygamy.

So you are claiming Section 132 was not given through Joseph Smith?

D&C 132
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand ...

I personally know that Section 132 is the word of God.

How?

It was revealed to me.

[Lizzy60]

Did you know Section 132 was not a part of the Doctrine and Covenants during Joseph's life? It wasn't added until 1876. The history is made up to support polygamy.

So you are claiming Section 132 was not given through Joseph Smith?

D&C 132
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand ...

I personally know that Section 132 is the word of God.

How?

It was revealed to me.

There are active members of the church who say it has been revealed to them that gay marriages should be sealed in the temple and that gay couples will be in the celestial kingdom.

[Obeone]

There are active members of the church who say it has been revealed to them that gay marriages should be sealed in the temple and that gay couples will be in the celestial kingdom.

Hence it proves what I have said earlier: the time has come that no one can survive on borrowed light anymore. Unless you can talk to God and receive an answer from Him, no one can help you.

Training wheels are coming off... get ready for a ride...

[Jonesy]

Because it wasn't relevant. 1) is in reference to a literal key. 2) is in reference to a clock key or something similar 3) is in reference to a Keystone 4) is the key on an organ 5) is a musical note

Though I could mention 8) In the Romish church, ecclesiastical jurisdiction, or the power of the pope, or the power of excommunicating or absolving.

What about sealing on earth and in heaven?

What does this scripture mean to you?

D&C 132:7,8
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

The Bible’s only verse which gives the concept of priesthood keys is in Matthew 16:19; but the only understanding we can derive from it is that they are used to bind and loose.

Fortunately, Joseph Smith expounded the doctrine of the keys in D&C. So, those that throw out the entire D&C (there are some, apparently) may not realize that it is the only key (#7 definition) to understanding what the keys are. Not one, but two verses are used to clarify:

17 For the firstborn holds the right of the presidency over this priesthood, and the keys or authority of the same. (D&C 68)

15 The bishopric is the presidency of this priesthood, and holds the keys or authority of the same. (D&C 107)

Therefore,

Keys=Authority (of the priesthood)

You don’t need Webster’s to define it, because we can derive its meaning as revealed by the Lord through Joseph Smith.

Not many like that around here, but those are the facts.

Those that believe in the D&C, or at least the parts they agree with, are right to point out D&C 121:36–that the rights are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven. God truly granted authority to fulfill His purposes required for eternal salvation—for multiple reasons, including undoing works of evil. Authority has been given to man, but all things they bind can be rejected if not suitable to the best eternal outcome. Some authority was granted, but less is usable due to transgressions of laws that were required to be kept in order to be used.

I personally believe the purpose for the church will be met, even if that purpose isn't understood by those part of it; it has its purpose for its time and greater will be revealed.

[Jonesy]

Training wheels are coming off... get ready for a ride...

What makes you say this? It doesn’t involve an earthquake, does it…? Or something else? Just curious…

[Luke]

What is a prophet? He is a messenger. A true prophet delivers a message of glad tidings of the mission, death and resurrection of Jesus and an invitation to take up one's own cross to follow Him. After you receive the message, you should move on in that regard. Joseph encouraged people to seek and receive revelations for themselves, and that by depending too much on him their minds were darkened.

In many ways, Nelson is irrelevant. Even if he is a 'true' prophet, if you rely on him for messages from heaven, your mind and spirit are weak. That's why I'm a bit amused when people warn against relying on 'borrowed light'. Usually those saying that are in fact relying on borrowed light themselves instead of building their own connection to heaven. The stronger your connection to heaven, the less you need a prophet, because you are one for yourself.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Thank you. I agree with you completely. Especially about minds being darkened by relying too much on the Prophet. Joseph was awesome, and he said it very well!

As for your question "What is a prophet?"
In this context it is the man who holds the keys of the kingdom of God on earth. The sealing power, the power to perform valid priesthood ordinances without which no one can be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven.

These keys are held by Nelson and by this Church now. We should give proper deference to this awesome fact.

This said, the Church does not hold monopoly on the truth, but only on the keys.

This is the lesson we are being taught now. Will we respect the keys and follow the direction of the Spirit, even when the Prophet is allowed to test us by giving to us deadly advice?

God wants us to grow up, and to learn this key lesson, without which our minds will be darkened indeed.

Thanks for your post!

Which keys?

[Obeone]

Training wheels are coming off... get ready for a ride...

What makes you say this? It doesn’t involve an earthquake, does it…? Or something else? Just curious…

Yes many things are coming, and you cannot "follow the Prophet" and survive, because God wants to teach you to follow the Spirit MORE than the Prophet, and if you do not learn that, you will die, because as I said before, the Spirit outranks the Prophet, and always did. (Something they forgot to mention in Sunday School).

As for why training wheels are coming off:

It is quite obvious: the Prophet gives the Church a deadly advice. Many who follow it will die by the slow kill bio-weapon wrongly called vax.

I actually think the Prophet believes (or believed) it was "safe and effective" because of his training as a physician/surgeon which caused him to be brainwashed by big pharma.

God allowed this to prove the Church and to teach them this key lesson: The Spirit of God outranks the Prophet, and if you follow the Prophet INSTEAD of the Spirit, you will die (because they will poison themselves on advice from the Prophet). Simple.

This is a valid test. How else can God teach us this, except by allowing the Prophet to give us advice that the Spirit says not to follow?

Therefore one has to get his own revelation or die. But the Prophet is true, and still has the keys. That is the test.

This is why I said, that training wheels are coming off.