Which apostles do you think have the best chance to become presidents of the church right now?

[Qlitewski]

Which apostles do you think have the best chance to become presidents of the church right now?

[mtmom]

Oaks

[InfoWarrior82]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

[zionssuburb]

Oaks, Holland and Bednar... Statistically it's basically age (at time of call) vs age (at time of call) of the apostle ahead of you.... Although Holland is looking pretty worn out these days.

http://threestory.com/apostles/

[Luke]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

The D&C clearly says that the First Presidency is to be made up of High Priests and not Apostles.

[Niemand]

Bednar. Appointed relatively young.

[Niemand]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

I think it was chosen after Brigham because they basically didn't want another succession crisis.

[InfoWarrior82]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

I think it was chosen after Brigham because they basically didn't want another succession crisis.

Oh, so they were worried the Lord wouldn't make it known to them?

[BenMcCrea]

Oaks, Holland and Bednar... Statistically it's basically age (at time of call) vs age (at time of call) of the apostle ahead of you.... Although Holland is looking pretty worn out these days.

http://threestory.com/apostles/

It’s nothing to do with the age of the Apostle. It’s to do with when you were ordained as an Apostle.

The only time age comes into it is if you have two Apostles ordained at the same time - then the oldest is senior.

RMN and DHO were both ordained on the same day - RMN is the oldest - RMN is the President of the Church ahead of Dallin H Oaks

[BenMcCrea]

So unless death takes them out first - the current list is:

Dallin H Oaks
M Russell Ballard
Jeffrey R Holland
Henry B Eyring
Dieter F Uchtdorf
David A Bednar
Quentin L Cook
D Todd Christofferson
Neil L Andersen
Ronald A Rasband
Gary E Stephenson
Dale G Renlund
Gerrit W Gong
Ulisses Soares

[InfoWarrior82]

So unless death takes them out first - the current list is:

Dallin H Oaks
M Russell Ballard
Jeffrey R Holland
Henry B Eyring
Dieter F Uchtdorf
David A Bednar
Quentin L Cook
D Todd Christofferson
Neil L Andersen
Ronald A Rasband
Gary E Stephenson
Dale G Renlund
Gerrit W Gong
Ulisses Soares

Citation needed (scripture)

[JLHPROF]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

The D&C clearly says that the First Presidency is to be made up of High Priests and not Apostles.

They can be both Apostles and High Priests - D&C 84 states that.

[JLHPROF]

So unless death takes them out first - the current list is:

Dallin H Oaks
M Russell Ballard
Jeffrey R Holland
Henry B Eyring
Dieter F Uchtdorf
David A Bednar
Quentin L Cook
D Todd Christofferson
Neil L Andersen
Ronald A Rasband
Gary E Stephenson
Dale G Renlund
Gerrit W Gong
Ulisses Soares

Oaks, Holland, Bednar.
Unless Holland passes suddenly before Oaks.
At this point Bednar is a given.

[Shawn Henry]

It’s nothing to do with the age of the Apostle. It’s to do with when you were ordained as an Apostle.

I think what was meant was, if you are ordained at a late age, you are almost guaranteed to not make it to the top because it takes a good 30 or 40 years.

[Atrasado]

Which apostles do you think have the best chance to become presidents of the church right now?

Hopefully, none of them.

[Shawn Henry]

They can be both Apostles and High Priests - D&C 84 states that.

84 doesn't say anything about the First Presidency, but the Lord does name Joseph and six others as both apostles and high priests.

"And as I said unto mine apostles, even so I say unto you, for you are mine apostles, even God’s high priests; ye are they whom my Father hath given me; ye are my friends;"

The church had apostles, however, before they got the Melchizidek Priesthood at the Morley Farm in 1831. Once they received the MP, these apostles had the opportunity for a higher ordination and became High Priests.

[Robin Hood]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

The D&C clearly says that the First Presidency is to be made up of High Priests and not Apostles.

It does, and it is.
When a man is ordained an apostle his previous high priest ordination isn't nullified.
I expect the current FP are deacons, teachers, priests, bishops, elders, high priests, apostles...

[Luke]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

The D&C clearly says that the First Presidency is to be made up of High Priests and not Apostles.

They can be both Apostles and High Priests - D&C 84 states that.

How on earth does it state that?

[EmmaLee]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

That's because it has nothing to do with God or the scriptures. Look to the by-laws of the Corporation, and there you will find the design whereby the most senior living member of the Twelve becomes the next President of the Corporation, or Corporate Sole (which some people still think is a church). It is a legal, corporate matter - again, nothing to do with revelation, etc.

[Luke]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

The D&C clearly says that the First Presidency is to be made up of High Priests and not Apostles.

It does, and it is.
When a man is ordained an apostle his previous high priest ordination isn't nullified.
I expect the current FP are deacons, teachers, priests, bishops, elders, high priests, apostles...

Apostle is lower than High Priest though.

Apostles were in the Church since 6 April 1830, but the first High Priest was ordained on 3 June 1831.

Obviously the Church has more than likely ordained them High Priests beforehand, but this is clearly out of order.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Whoever can knock off everyone ahead of him.

[JLHPROF]

Apostle is lower than High Priest though.

Apostles were in the Church since 6 April 1830, but the first High Priest was ordained on 3 June 1831.

I thought your Nauvoo studies had cured you of this.
The Apostleship has degrees to it.
The full Apostleship is connected to being a Patriarch, a King and Priest, and holding sealing keys.
Seventies can be Apostles, Elders can be Apostles, and High Priests can be Apostles. So again the FP can be both HP AND Apostles. Not an either/or.

[Luke]

Apostle is lower than High Priest though.

Apostles were in the Church since 6 April 1830, but the first High Priest was ordained on 3 June 1831.

I thought your Nauvoo studies had cured you of this.
The Apostleship has degrees to it.
The full Apostleship is connected to being a Patriarch, a King and Priest, and holding sealing keys.
Seventies can be Apostles, Elders can be Apostles, and High Priests can be Apostles. So again the FP can be both HP AND Apostles. Not an either/or.

The terms “Apostle” and “Apostleship” are just messy concepts. Those terms were either used to signify the calling of Apostle (tied to the office of Elder) and as a substitute for the word Priesthood. I.e. “Apostleship” meant “Priesthood”.

Clearly the way Apostle is being spoken of here has nothing to do with anything in Nauvoo.

“An Apostle is an Elder” as per D&C 20. Also see JS in 1843 saying that a King and Priest is above Apostles and Patriarchs.

A High Priest is automatically an Apostle as he holds all the lesser authority underneath that office, which thus includes the calling of Apostle.

[CMajor]

I'd say none of those receiving a salary from the church, if up to the Lord to appoint, rather than who is the most senior Apostle.

[FoundMyEden]

It's whoever is the most senior living apostle... Which I have a difficult time finding in the scriptures as to why this is the case.

That's because it has nothing to do with God or the scriptures. Look to the by-laws of the Corporation, and there you will find the design whereby the most senior living member of the Twelve becomes the next President of the Corporation, or Corporate Sole (which some people still think is a church). It is a legal, corporate matter - again, nothing to do with revelation, etc.

They will argue that it was revelation to set up a corporation to oversee the church to set up the Lord’s kingdom on the earth when the earthly government is overthrown.