Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

[MikeMaillet]

I just finished watching the short video and there can only be one of two problems with this guy. The first is that he is a very evil man wherein he refuses to use the Priesthood power he claims to hold and the other one is that his IQ is well into the double digits. I pick the former.

The 4th book of Nephi shows clearly that we do not have any need for pharmaceuticals. I believe that to have the kind of Priesthood power as described below that the people need to be living "the covenant." Only in this way will God provide us with safety, health (remember the ceremony at the veil), posterity and a promise that we would live off the good of the land.

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

4 Nephi:

1 And it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.

2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.

4 And it came to pass that the thirty and seventh year passed away also, and there still continued to be peace in the land.

5 And there were great and marvelous works wrought by the disciples of Jesus, insomuch that they did heal the sick, and raise the dead, and cause the lame to walk, and the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear; and all manner of miracles did they work among the children of men; and in nothing did they work miracles save it were in the name of Jesus.

[Obeone]

Renlund is not wrong about doing our best. The only point is that your best can be much better than poisonous pharma.
That said, we should not hurry to condemn an apostle who is doing the best he knows how, then perhaps God will be merciful to us as well.

[Obeone]

You want the church to be true. I only want the truth. Your job is impossible, but mine is possible.

Both jobs are possible. The Church is true, but is being tested.

Example: 1 Kings 13: 8-30

[thaabit]

I met an older couple on a recent trip, prob mid-60s to mid-70s, and during a meal I noticed they had a slew of supplements they were taking. I asked what they were taking and if they took pharmaceuticals. I forget, but it was things like turmeric and fish oil. And they took zero pharmaceuticals. They were healthy and vibrant. One night they stayed up with some of us until 2am playing music and talking. They were religious, I believe, but not members of the church.

I ran into a friend recently who I had only seen a few times during the pandemic. We got talking about it, and I found out he and his wife were anti-maskers and were given grief about it at times at church. Then they told me they gave their first child only 5 vaccines and their second has none so far. They said their kids and healthy and vibrant and don't get sick at the rate other kids do, and when they do it's mild.

Just a couple anecdotal stories which confirm my worldview, I just wish the church were more like this. I'd like to hear just one story about a miraculous faith healing using priesthood power during this so-called pandemic over the pulpit, especially in a broad forum like conference. If we aren't any different from the world, what's the point?

[Being There]

Strip away the BS and piano music...and the message is...to take pharmaceutical drugs, it's OK, trust them...sprinkle in a little faith if it makes you feel better.

Call me cynical, but Pfizer stock is down over 19% YTD, other pharmaceuticals are down as well. That would translate into a pretty big loss over at Ensign Peak Advisors...so best CREATE some new demand.

Apple was one of their top holdings...what's next, Rasband, piano music and how to get closer to Christ using your iPad???

yep

"take pharmaceutical drugs, it's OK, trust them."

I think Renlunds missed his calling.
He should be working for Big Pharm - doing their warped commercials.
maybe that's what this was.

[Obeone]

Renlund is a clown...same guy who claimed the clot-shot was safe and effective from the pulpit in conference.

The clot shot is now the LEADING cause of death in parts of the world already, including Alberta Canada.

Yeah...follow their advice...you end up dead.

You are right about everything, except about Renlund being a clown.

There is another possibility, Renlund is a good man doing the best he knows how, while being obviously wrong about this thing. Given his training and profession, it is not surprising that he might be dreadfully misinformed about pharma and poisonous jabs (they are not vax for sure).

It is possible for a good man, and for a Prophet to be mistaken about very important facts. Scriptures are full of these examples: Peter vs. Paul, Jacob not knowing about his son in Egypt, etc.

My testimony is, despite of his incorrect statements, he means well, and most importantly he is a true apostle of the Lord holding keys. Let us show more respect to that awesome reality. As I said, if we are merciful to apostles in their shortcomings, perhaps God will be merciful to us also.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." "But he who judges rashly, shall be judged rashly again."

[Chip]

There are plenty of prophets on the Internet that actually prophesy in the name of the Lord and they understand quite well how bad Big Pharma is. We miss on all fronts. We just have money and business suits, and all the blandness that comes with them.

[HVDC]

Renlund is a clown...same guy who claimed the clot-shot was safe and effective from the pulpit in conference.

The clot shot is now the LEADING cause of death in parts of the world already, including Alberta Canada.

Yeah...follow their advice...you end up dead.

You are right about everything, except about Renlund being a clown.

There is another possibility, Renlund is a good man doing the best he knows how, while being obviously wrong about this thing. Given his training and profession, it is not surprising that he might be dreadfully misinformed about pharma and poisonous jabs (they are not vax for sure).

It is possible for a good man, and for a Prophet to be mistaken about very important facts. Scriptures are full of these examples: Peter vs. Paul, Jacob not knowing about his son in Egypt, etc.

My testimony is, despite of his incorrect statements, he means well, and most importantly he is a true apostle of the Lord holding keys. Let us show more respect to that awesome reality. As I said, if we are merciful to apostles in their shortcomings, perhaps God will be merciful to us also.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." "But he who judges rashly, shall be judged rashly again."

Whether I am wrongfully led to my death by a good man or a bad one.

The result is the same.

But our leaders claim to be Apostles.

This engenders trust that they may not deserve.

Your testimony notwithstanding.

He is misleading his flock.

And ultimately.

That is all that matters.

Not his intention.

Sir H

[Obeone]

Whether I am wrongfully led to my death by a good man or a bad one.

The result is the same.

But our leaders claim to be Apostles.

This engenders trust that they may not deserve.

Your testimony notwithstanding.

He is misleading his flock.

And ultimately.

That is all that matters.

Not his intention.

Sir H

You are right, the advice is deadly wrong. But intentions do matter.
I believe God allowed this bad advice to come from the apostles so that the Church learns this important lesson: "If you follow the Prophet INSTEAD of the Spirit of God, you will die."

It has been prophesied that the time will come that no one will be able to survive on borrowed light. This time has come. And this is the test.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You want the church to be true. I only want the truth. Your job is impossible, but mine is possible.

Both jobs are possible. The Church is true, but is being tested.

Example: 1 Kings 13: 8-30

What does that even mean? The “church” is true? I’m willing to give any person or organization the benefit of the doubt. To allow them to either succeed or fail. But when these men set themselves up the way they have, and taught false doctrine for generations, then no, the “church” may have been true, but is very much in apostasy.

Renlund, being a man of medicine, should be able to do his own study about what has happened with this vax. He should be honest with the members of the church and tell them he was dead wrong. But what does he do? He continues to beat his drum and tell people to follow the profit.

I think God will hold accountable all of us who have awakened to the apostasy of the church if we choose not to speak up or at least do something about it.

[Chip]

Renlund is a clown...same guy who claimed the clot-shot was safe and effective from the pulpit in conference.

The clot shot is now the LEADING cause of death in parts of the world already, including Alberta Canada.

Yeah...follow their advice...you end up dead.

You are right about everything, except about Renlund being a clown.

There is another possibility, Renlund is a good man doing the best he knows how, while being obviously wrong about this thing. Given his training and profession, it is not surprising that he might be dreadfully misinformed about pharma and poisonous jabs (they are not vax for sure).

It is possible for a good man, and for a Prophet to be mistaken about very important facts. Scriptures are full of these examples: Peter vs. Paul, Jacob not knowing about his son in Egypt, etc.

My testimony is, despite of his incorrect statements, he means well, and most importantly he is a true apostle of the Lord holding keys. Let us show more respect to that awesome reality. As I said, if we are merciful to apostles in their shortcomings, perhaps God will be merciful to us also.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." "But he who judges rashly, shall be judged rashly again."

Whether I am wrongfully led to my death by a good man or a bad one.

The result is the same.

But our leaders claim to be Apostles.

This engenders trust that they may not deserve.

Your testimony notwithstanding.

He is misleading his flock.

And ultimately.

That is all that matters.

Not his intention.

Sir H

That is some high-voltage direct current there.

[Chip]

You want the church to be true. I only want the truth. Your job is impossible, but mine is possible.

Both jobs are possible. The Church is true, but is being tested.

Example: 1 Kings 13: 8-30

What does that even mean? The “church” is true? I’m willing to give any person or organization the benefit of the doubt. To allow them to either succeed or fail. But when these men set themselves up the way they have, and taught false doctrine for generations, then no, the “church” may have been true, but is very much in apostasy.

Renlund, being a man of medicine, should be able to do his own study about what has happened with this vax. He should be honest with the members of the church and tell them he was dead wrong. But what does he do? He continues to beat his drum and tell people to follow the profit.

I think God will hold accountable all of us who have awakened to the apostasy of the church if we choose not to speak up or at least do something about it.

But what can be done about it? How come they love the lies and I don't? I can't get them to change how they feel about things. I have tried and failed. They are where they're at because of who and what they are. They have had their whole lives to get a nose for the truth.

[Reluctant Watchman]

But what can be done about it? How come they love the lies and I don't? I can't get them to change how they feel about things. I have tried and failed. They are where they're at because of who and what they are. They have had their whole lives to get a nose for the truth.

There is a lot we can do. We can make our voices heard. We can have conversations with our friends and family. We can talk to our local church leaders. We can find people who are also willing to speak up. We may have to leave the church. Or stay and stand as a witness. And, the most important “change” is what happens within you, not with the church.

[HVDC]

Renlund is a clown...same guy who claimed the clot-shot was safe and effective from the pulpit in conference.

The clot shot is now the LEADING cause of death in parts of the world already, including Alberta Canada.

Yeah...follow their advice...you end up dead.

You are right about everything, except about Renlund being a clown.

There is another possibility, Renlund is a good man doing the best he knows how, while being obviously wrong about this thing. Given his training and profession, it is not surprising that he might be dreadfully misinformed about pharma and poisonous jabs (they are not vax for sure).

It is possible for a good man, and for a Prophet to be mistaken about very important facts. Scriptures are full of these examples: Peter vs. Paul, Jacob not knowing about his son in Egypt, etc.

My testimony is, despite of his incorrect statements, he means well, and most importantly he is a true apostle of the Lord holding keys. Let us show more respect to that awesome reality. As I said, if we are merciful to apostles in their shortcomings, perhaps God will be merciful to us also.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." "But he who judges rashly, shall be judged rashly again."

Whether I am wrongfully led to my death by a good man or a bad one.

The result is the same.

But our leaders claim to be Apostles.

This engenders trust that they may not deserve.

Your testimony notwithstanding.

He is misleading his flock.

And ultimately.

That is all that matters.

Not his intention.

Sir H

That is some high-voltage direct current there.

Sir H

[Say what?]

Googled and got this!

85265592-624C-49AC-9ACE-A468F9E9C105.jpeg (484.83 KiB) Viewed 486 times

[Chip]

But what can be done about it? How come they love the lies and I don't? I can't get them to change how they feel about things. I have tried and failed. They are where they're at because of who and what they are. They have had their whole lives to get a nose for the truth.

There is a lot we can do. We can make our voices heard. We can have conversations with our friends and family. We can talk to our local church leaders. We can find people who are also willing to speak up. We may have to leave the church. Or stay and stand as a witness. And, the most important “change” is what happens within you, not with the church.

I've been doing that, even giving talks in sacrament meetings where I outline all these things. Maybe two people care. The rest just yawn. They don't care. They have enough truth, already. And they are feeling safe following the prophet. Their minds closed long ago.

I think Yuri Bezmenov was right. "They will not wake up until the military boot kicks their fat bottoms" and hauls them off to a concentration camp.

[Reluctant Watchman]

But what can be done about it? How come they love the lies and I don't? I can't get them to change how they feel about things. I have tried and failed. They are where they're at because of who and what they are. They have had their whole lives to get a nose for the truth.

There is a lot we can do. We can make our voices heard. We can have conversations with our friends and family. We can talk to our local church leaders. We can find people who are also willing to speak up. We may have to leave the church. Or stay and stand as a witness. And, the most important “change” is what happens within you, not with the church.

I've been doing that, even giving talks in sacrament meetings where I outline all these things. Maybe two people care. The rest just yawn. They don't care. They have enough truth, already. And they are feeling safe following the prophet. Their minds closed long ago.

I think Yuri Bezmenov was right. "They will not wake up until the military boot kicks their fat bottoms" and hauls them off to a concentration camp.

Makes you wonder how Samuel the Lamanite felt.

[Chip]

But what can be done about it? How come they love the lies and I don't? I can't get them to change how they feel about things. I have tried and failed. They are where they're at because of who and what they are. They have had their whole lives to get a nose for the truth.

There is a lot we can do. We can make our voices heard. We can have conversations with our friends and family. We can talk to our local church leaders. We can find people who are also willing to speak up. We may have to leave the church. Or stay and stand as a witness. And, the most important “change” is what happens within you, not with the church.

I've been doing that, even giving talks in sacrament meetings where I outline all these things. Maybe two people care. The rest just yawn. They don't care. They have enough truth, already. And they are feeling safe following the prophet. Their minds closed long ago.

I think Yuri Bezmenov was right. "They will not wake up until the military boot kicks their fat bottoms" and hauls them off to a concentration camp.

Makes you wonder how Samuel the Lamanite felt.

I have done according to my inspiration. Now, if God came and gave me direct orders to do this, I wouldn't care what anybody thought and I would push forward fiercely. I don't have that level of certainty now, or yet. Maybe God thinks they've heard enough, already.

It was always a downer to understand through their body language that the bishops and stake leaders didn't like my talks, as soon as they were over. Then, there's the bishop standing up afterwards and announcing that any revelation will be coming through proper channels of priesthood authority. This was in response to quoting the scriptures. So depressing.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I have done according to my inspiration. Now, if God came and gave me direct orders to do this, I wouldn't care what anybody thought and I would push forward fiercely. I don't have that level of certainty now, or yet. Maybe God thinks they've heard enough, already.

I think one of the difficult things for members who’ve awakened is leaving the organization. The judgment and condemnation that follows is quite astounding in many cases. Comparable with that comes the betrayal they feel and some bitterness. I’ve seen many people work through these emotions. Many have been able to overcome the hurt and sorrow they’ve felt.

[Gadianton Slayer]

You want the church to be true. I only want the truth. Your job is impossible, but mine is possible.

Bingo.

[FrankOne]

You want the church to be true. I only want the truth. Your job is impossible, but mine is possible.

Both jobs are possible. The Church is true, but is being tested.

Example: 1 Kings 13: 8-30

What does that even mean? The “church” is true?

Very thought provoking.
as far as I know, the LDS membership are the only group in the world that uses the exact phrase "The Church is true".

Where does that come from? Canned testimonies. "I know the church is true..."

This is the first time that I've considered this topic of "The Church is True".
The Church is defined as the congregation....so...the saying doesn't even make sense.

There is the Gospel of Christ and there is the congregation and then there are the leaders.

The leaders have fallen. The congregation is splitting.... and the Gospel remains TRUE.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Very thought provoking.
as far as I know, the LDS membership are the only group in the world that uses the exact phrase "The Church is true".

Where does that come from? Canned testimonies. "I know the church is true..."

This is the first time that I've considered this topic of "The Church is True".
The Church is defined as the congregation....so...the saying doesn't even make sense.

There is the Gospel of Christ and there is the congregation and then there are the leaders.

The leaders have fallen. The congregation is splitting.... and the Gospel remains TRUE.

I read an article from a man who once was an LDS chaplain. He didn’t attend an LDS ward fro 18 years. Before he became a chaplain he would hear the saints say, “I know the gospel to be true.” He found it really intriguing when he returned to an LDS ward after those 18 years and he heard this phrase for the first time: “I know the church is true.”

LDS people love mantras and dogmatic thinking. They also thrive on their own echo chambers of testimony meetings.

[FrankOne]

https://twitter.com/thebookofmormon/sta ... NmSCXgD3-g

What I am uncomfortable with is using this man's example to promote big pharma instead of encouraging people to make their own life choices-- medications, herbs, faith healing or monitored fasting. Today people are pressured to take pharmaceuticals instead of exploring all options available.

This, being made so public, the intent seems obvious.

Elder Dale G. Renlund, an Apostle called to serve in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, teaches us a valuable lesson

i think they call it propaganda.

I agree, there are medications which are certainly beneficial, but for this recording to have been made, there had to be intent behind it. Why would this story be important at all to anyone else? It isn't . The lesson "taught" wasn't about faith or God, certainly not. It was about something quite different.

Maybe this could be the true lesson:

Renlund certainly would never quote it because it would cause people to question.

D&C
43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy.

Doctors in the day of JS prescribed medication for sickness, why weren't doctors named in the scripture above?

hm

Because the medicine wasn't near as good then as it is now.

or wasn't as bad as it is now. That could be argued on both sides. I've got 6 kids , with the youngest at 18, oldest 32. Counting the day they were born, the accumulative number of times that my kids and wife have seen a doctor is below 15. Natural remedies and faith works.

I have to recant on the foregoing. My wife saw a doctor on numerous occasions during pre-natal and birth for my first child. The obstetrician was an arrogant and uneducated man. He was considered one of the best in Vegas. My first baby was in a footling breach position before birth. He said that my wife needed a C-section. I asked if there was a way to turn the baby before birth. His uneducated response was "she isn't a cow'. So..my wife had a C-section as I watched it. Cool operation actually but it felt completely wrong. I knew it was wrong.

So...I studied and studied and I studied some more . Doctors all agree that it isn't 'safe' to have a natural childbirth after a C-section with some of them saying "it's crazy". Midwives disagreed. We went with a midwife on the second and all the others as well with no problems. All but one were in a breach position before childbirth. All turned 180 degrees to a normal head delivery after the midwife rendered exercise instructions which worked every time. My studying and experiences turned on a light in me. Doctors only know that which they've been taught and what they've been taught is to PROMOTE a story line that doctors are expert saviors and everything else is quackery.

There were times that I was perhaps weak and chose the expedient method which was to seek a doctors help, but in 100% of those times , it was simply to obtain a prescription that I already knew would work. Mostly just a simple antibiotic. I would make my own penicillin if I had the patience...it's not all that difficult.

A knowledge of herbs is much more effective than simply giving a blank look at a doctor and saying "help me".
I will say, though, that lab testing is an extremely good tool which is available to everyone without a doctor. In those situations where you're not sure what is going on, lab work can assist in knowing an effective treatment if you're willing to become educated.


edit to add:

keep in mind, the subject here is "sickness". Doctors are great choices for serious injuries, but not all of them, but that's for another time to discuss. ie...knee, shoulder etc. ...which I've healed myself without any surgery and better than those that I know with the same or similar problems which had surgery.

[HereWeGo]

Strip away the BS and piano music...and the message is...to take pharmaceutical drugs, it's OK, trust them...sprinkle in a little faith if it makes you feel better.

Call me cynical, but Pfizer stock is down over 19% YTD, other pharmaceuticals are down as well. That would translate into a pretty big loss over at Ensign Peak Advisors...so best CREATE some new demand.

Apple was one of their top holdings...what's next, Rasband, piano music and how to get closer to Christ using your iPad???

Salt Lake Tribune is reporting that the “Church” has lost Billions.

“ The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints lost $10.2 billion on its investments in the first half of this year as inflation fears rocked stock markets.

New reports filed with U.S. regulators indicate the value of the immense church account managed by the faith’s investment arm, Salt Lake City-based Ensign Peak Advisors, fell to $42 billion as of the end of June, after two quarters of declines.

That put this portfolio of stocks and mutual funds on par with where it was in late 2020, after reaching a two-year high of $52.3 billion near the end of 2021. The account then lost $3.1 billion in the first three months of 2022, followed by a $7.1 billion drop in April, May and June.”

My recollection from the CPA who analyzed the holdings of EPA was that EPA was reporting less values in their holdings than the CPA was able to show on his documents. My guess is that they are doing the same thing now.

[HVDC]

You want the church to be true. I only want the truth. Your job is impossible, but mine is possible.

Both jobs are possible. The Church is true, but is being tested.

Example: 1 Kings 13: 8-30

What does that even mean? The “church” is true?

Very thought provoking.
as far as I know, the LDS membership are the only group in the world that uses the exact phrase "The Church is true".

Where does that come from? Canned testimonies. "I know the church is true..."

This is the first time that I've considered this topic of "The Church is True".
The Church is defined as the congregation....so...the saying doesn't even make sense.

There is the Gospel of Christ and there is the congregation and then there are the leaders.

The leaders have fallen. The congregation is splitting.... and the Gospel remains TRUE.

For some members.

It's the only thing they can testify about.

Others just throw it in there when testifying in general without really thinking about it.

It is a warm and fuzzy cult like statement.

That I'm one of you.

Part of the family.

It does not require any special spiritual confirmation.

Just a belief in the Corporation of the Presidency.

That they trust and sustain them.

And they assume that God does too.

Other than that.

It has no actual meaning.

It's bad grammar.

I think it is an offshoot from the idea that if the BofM is true.

The Church has to be also.

And for some.

It's all they've got.

Sir H