Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

[sushi_chef]

so, prophecy has been fulfilling among the brethren ..

"16:10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
"

[Chris]

Where is the evidence?

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both.

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.

You can think whatever you want. That's everyone's privilege. I'm just not sure why you think the things you do because when I look at the scriptures they have plenty of charges of fiscal malfeasance laid against churches leaders.

For example, Ezekiel wrote this about when Christ comes to personally lead the gathering of Israel:

34:10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

The Lord gave Joseph Smith the parable of the nobleman and the olive trees about the Church in the latter days. This part is right at the time leading into the tribulations (we know this because it says that the enemy broke down their hedge and destroyed their works and that directly after this the Lord will commission His servant, Joseph Smith to lead His servants into battle),

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?
48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?
49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.
50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

I wonder which servants will take the Lord's money and invest it in the markets.

Perhaps Isaiah wrote the most vividly,

56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

You are making several assumptions and judging unrighteously. You assume you know of whom he speaks. You dont.

If you want to say many in the church including on this site fit into the category above, including some bishops , stake presidents and maybe even some 70's. I would agree with you. The scriptures above are similar to parable of 10 virgins and i agree with that.

However saying every prophet and leader since joseph, every member, is fallen and is seperated is not right, saying temples are not holy edifices are not legit.

Because you can go back to isaiah, ezekial, etc and show to the contrary

[Reluctant Watchman]

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both.

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.

You can think whatever you want. That's everyone's privilege. I'm just not sure why you think the things you do because when I look at the scriptures they have plenty of charges of fiscal malfeasance laid against churches leaders.

For example, Ezekiel wrote this about when Christ comes to personally lead the gathering of Israel:

34:10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

The Lord gave Joseph Smith the parable of the nobleman and the olive trees about the Church in the latter days. This part is right at the time leading into the tribulations (we know this because it says that the enemy broke down their hedge and destroyed their works and that directly after this the Lord will commission His servant, Joseph Smith to lead His servants into battle),

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?
48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?
49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.
50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

I wonder which servants will take the Lord's money and invest it in the markets.

Perhaps Isaiah wrote the most vividly,

56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

You are making several assumptions and judging unrighteously. You assume you know of whom he speaks. You dont.

If you want to say many in the church including on this site fit into the category above, including some bishops , stake presidents and maybe even some 70's. I would agree with you. The scriptures above are similar to parable of 10 virgins and i agree with that.

However saying every prophet and leader since joseph, every member, is fallen and is seperated is not right, saying temples are not holy edifices are not legit.

Because you can go back to isaiah, ezekial, etc and show to the contrary

You have a very interesting interpretation of these early prophets. They are the ones condemning wicked servants in our day.

[gruden2.0]

You are making several assumptions and judging unrighteously. You assume you know of whom he speaks. You dont.

If you want to say many in the church including on this site fit into the category above, including some bishops , stake presidents and maybe even some 70's. I would agree with you. The scriptures above are similar to parable of 10 virgins and i agree with that.

However saying every prophet and leader since joseph, every member, is fallen and is seperated is not right, saying temples are not holy edifices are not legit.

Because you can go back to isaiah, ezekial, etc and show to the contrary

Well, we have a revelation stating the Kirtland temple was accepted by God (at least for a time before it was desecrated). Do we have the same for anything since? Bear in mind, the only other temple commanded by revelation to be built in recent times beside that is the Nauvoo temple.

As for prophets since Joseph Smith, I won't say they're fallen because there hasn't been one. Brigham Young called himself a 'Yankee Guesser'. In the Reed Smoot hearings Joseph F Smith did not proclaim himself a prophet when asked. Likewise Hinckley backed away from that as well on 60 Minutes. If these guys don't say they're prophets, why does anyone call them that? Good marketing I guess.

[Atrasado]

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both.

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.

You can think whatever you want. That's everyone's privilege. I'm just not sure why you think the things you do because when I look at the scriptures they have plenty of charges of fiscal malfeasance laid against churches leaders.

For example, Ezekiel wrote this about when Christ comes to personally lead the gathering of Israel:

34:10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

The Lord gave Joseph Smith the parable of the nobleman and the olive trees about the Church in the latter days. This part is right at the time leading into the tribulations (we know this because it says that the enemy broke down their hedge and destroyed their works and that directly after this the Lord will commission His servant, Joseph Smith to lead His servants into battle),

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?
48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?
49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.
50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

I wonder which servants will take the Lord's money and invest it in the markets.

Perhaps Isaiah wrote the most vividly,

56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

You are making several assumptions and judging unrighteously. You assume you know of whom he speaks. You dont.

If you want to say many in the church including on this site fit into the category above, including some bishops , stake presidents and maybe even some 70's. I would agree with you. The scriptures above are similar to parable of 10 virgins and i agree with that.

However saying every prophet and leader since joseph, every member, is fallen and is seperated is not right, saying temples are not holy edifices are not legit.

Because you can go back to isaiah, ezekial, etc and show to the contrary

I didn't say what you said. I think there are many who are still trying to live the gospel. I think that Joseph Smith was a prophet and I believe that Brigham Young was as well. I think that gradually we in the Church drank in the spirit of the world and have left the Holy One of Israel. I think that it is plain that these scriptures refer to this very point in time. What do you think these verses refer to? When do you think they will be fulfilled?

You disagree with me. That's all right. I actually hope you are right but it's clear to me that there are real problems with the Church and its leadership and that the Lord forewarned us of this. I agree to disagree.

[oneClimbs]

Where is the evidence?

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both.

I’m willing to believe anything no matter how bizarre or insane sounding, but this is one video. Who are these people, and do they have any other proof to back up their claims.

False witnesses have testified against people all throughout history.

But this is an old video and it is now, what, decades later and what has become of these claims?

It’s an intriguing claim and should be taken seriously, but what else is there?

Anyone can go on video and say anything.

[FrankOne]

so, prophecy has been fulfilling among the brethren ..

"16:10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
"

I've read that passage many times from the time I left to serve my mission. I didn't know that to think of it then.

Now...it's prophecy in the initial stages of fulfillment . The leadership of the church isn't going to repent and neither will be those that blindly follow them as described in Ezekiel 14 as well. (prophets can be mislead as well as those that follow them).

These verses do cause me to wonder who will be those referred to as "Israel" which trods down the gentiles.

in continuance:

12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fullness of my gospel.

13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

14 And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.

15 But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.

[FrankOne]

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both.

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.

You can think whatever you want. That's everyone's privilege. I'm just not sure why you think the things you do because when I look at the scriptures they have plenty of charges of fiscal malfeasance laid against churches leaders.

For example, Ezekiel wrote this about when Christ comes to personally lead the gathering of Israel:

34:10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

The Lord gave Joseph Smith the parable of the nobleman and the olive trees about the Church in the latter days. This part is right at the time leading into the tribulations (we know this because it says right after this that the enemy broke down their hedge and destroyed their works and that directly after this the Lord will commission His servant, Joseph Smith to lead His servants into battle),

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?
48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?
49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.
50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

I wonder which servants will take the Lord's money and invest it in the markets.

Perhaps Isaiah wrote the most vividly,

56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Excellent post.

hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?

[Robin Hood]

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.

You can think whatever you want. That's everyone's privilege. I'm just not sure why you think the things you do because when I look at the scriptures they have plenty of charges of fiscal malfeasance laid against churches leaders.

For example, Ezekiel wrote this about when Christ comes to personally lead the gathering of Israel:

34:10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

The Lord gave Joseph Smith the parable of the nobleman and the olive trees about the Church in the latter days. This part is right at the time leading into the tribulations (we know this because it says right after this that the enemy broke down their hedge and destroyed their works and that directly after this the Lord will commission His servant, Joseph Smith to lead His servants into battle),

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?
48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?
49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.
50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

I wonder which servants will take the Lord's money and invest it in the markets.

Perhaps Isaiah wrote the most vividly,

56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Excellent post.

hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?

Who are you addressing?

[FrankOne]

Where is the evidence?

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both.

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.

hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?

[FrankOne]

You can think whatever you want. That's everyone's privilege. I'm just not sure why you think the things you do because when I look at the scriptures they have plenty of charges of fiscal malfeasance laid against churches leaders.

For example, Ezekiel wrote this about when Christ comes to personally lead the gathering of Israel:



The Lord gave Joseph Smith the parable of the nobleman and the olive trees about the Church in the latter days. This part is right at the time leading into the tribulations (we know this because it says right after this that the enemy broke down their hedge and destroyed their works and that directly after this the Lord will commission His servant, Joseph Smith to lead His servants into battle),



I wonder which servants will take the Lord's money and invest it in the markets.

Perhaps Isaiah wrote the most vividly,

Excellent post.

hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?

Who are you addressing?

my mistake, I re-posted it for the intended recipient.

[Christianlee]

I finally watched the video. There were supposedly teenage boys involved. Some of them still should be alive. There should be lots of witnesses still alive. Where are they? I can remember when this first came out and the debunkers were claiming another man named Hinckley, not Gordon B., was involved. If the number of people claimed to be involved is accurate, I cannot imagine this could have been hidden from the public for years. Van Damme seems like a bitter man. But then again, I have never lived in SLC. Perhaps everyone was paid off to keep silent. If this story is true, someone still alive who participated in the parties will come forth and verify it.

[Mamabear]

I finally watched the video. There were supposedly teenage boys involved. Some of them still should be alive. There should be lots of witnesses still alive. Where are they? I can remember when this first came out and the debunkers were claiming another man named Hinckley, not Gordon B., was involved. If the number of people claimed to be involved is accurate, I cannot imagine this could have been hidden from the public for years. Van Damme seems like a bitter man. But then again, I have never lived in SLC. Perhaps everyone was paid off to keep silent. If this story is true, someone still alive who participated in the parties will come forth and verify it.

More information
https://theconsciousresistance.com/expo ... e-delayed/

[Reluctant Watchman]

I finally watched the video. There were supposedly teenage boys involved. Some of them still should be alive. There should be lots of witnesses still alive. Where are they? I can remember when this first came out and the debunkers were claiming another man named Hinckley, not Gordon B., was involved. If the number of people claimed to be involved is accurate, I cannot imagine this could have been hidden from the public for years. Van Damme seems like a bitter man. But then again, I have never lived in SLC. Perhaps everyone was paid off to keep silent. If this story is true, someone still alive who participated in the parties will come forth and verify it.

Read JR Sweet’s journal. He was one of those “teenage” boys.

[Christianlee]

I finally watched the video. There were supposedly teenage boys involved. Some of them still should be alive. There should be lots of witnesses still alive. Where are they? I can remember when this first came out and the debunkers were claiming another man named Hinckley, not Gordon B., was involved. If the number of people claimed to be involved is accurate, I cannot imagine this could have been hidden from the public for years. Van Damme seems like a bitter man. But then again, I have never lived in SLC. Perhaps everyone was paid off to keep silent. If this story is true, someone still alive who participated in the parties will come forth and verify it.

Read JR Sweet’s journal. He was one of those “teenage” boys.

His memories of all of this were brought back to his mind by an old Christian woman who was a memory therapist. I know some mentally ill people who recall terrible things that never happened. JR Sweet was not a teenager in the 60s and 70s when the original orgies were supposed to have occurred. And Charlie Pride was involved with the CIA? Okey dokie.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I finally watched the video. There were supposedly teenage boys involved. Some of them still should be alive. There should be lots of witnesses still alive. Where are they? I can remember when this first came out and the debunkers were claiming another man named Hinckley, not Gordon B., was involved. If the number of people claimed to be involved is accurate, I cannot imagine this could have been hidden from the public for years. Van Damme seems like a bitter man. But then again, I have never lived in SLC. Perhaps everyone was paid off to keep silent. If this story is true, someone still alive who participated in the parties will come forth and verify it.

Read JR Sweet’s journal. He was one of those “teenage” boys.

His memories of all of this were brought back to his mind by an old Christian woman who was a memory therapist. I know some mentally ill people who recall terrible things that never happened. JR Sweet was not a teenager in the 60s and 70s when the original orgies were supposed to have occurred. And Charlie Pride was involved with the CIA? Okey dokie.

I didn't say he was part of the original orgies. JR is very specific about when he met Hinckley.

Go and do a bit of research of the CIA and Hollywood connections. You may be surprised.

(BTW, I can't believe you removed your 'thanks' from my post.)

[Christianlee]

I finally watched the video. There were supposedly teenage boys involved. Some of them still should be alive. There should be lots of witnesses still alive. Where are they? I can remember when this first came out and the debunkers were claiming another man named Hinckley, not Gordon B., was involved. If the number of people claimed to be involved is accurate, I cannot imagine this could have been hidden from the public for years. Van Damme seems like a bitter man. But then again, I have never lived in SLC. Perhaps everyone was paid off to keep silent. If this story is true, someone still alive who participated in the parties will come forth and verify it.

Read JR Sweet’s journal. He was one of those “teenage” boys.

His memories of all of this were brought back to his mind by an old Christian woman who was a memory therapist. I know some mentally ill people who recall terrible things that never happened. JR Sweet was not a teenager in the 60s and 70s when the original orgies were supposed to have occurred. And Charlie Pride was involved with the CIA? Okey dokie.

I didn't say he was part of the original orgies. JR is very specific about when he met Hinckley.

Go and do a bit of research of the CIA and Hollywood connections. You may be surprised.

Thankfully, my involvement in the LDS Church is minimal at most. I don’t have the time, money, energy or the inclination to spend a lot of time on this. I appreciate people like you who do. If any of this is true, I hope it all blows into the open.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Thankfully, my involvement in the LDS Church is minimal at most. I don’t have the time, money, energy or the inclination to spend a lot of time on this. I appreciate people like you who do. If any of this is true, I hope it all blows into the open.

I only dabble in this subject so I can try to understand their true motives. Something doesn't feel right about them teaching false doctrines from the pulpits of the church. Something doesn't feel right about church history. Something doesn't feel right about how these men lie and set themselves up as a light among men. And all of it is done in the most crafty forms of subtlety. And when I say these things don't "feel right", it's a combination of my heart and mind. Any righteous person would want to know the truth, regardless of how hurtful or disparaging it may appear.

[Joan7]

There are currently at least three women that are testifying on Youtube about being abused by Leaders in the Church, including in the Salt Lake City Temple.
A lot of people are inclined to dismiss them, because their stories are so evil. But, I know that in other cases in the US, the children were subjected to such abuse and almost unbelievable things, that people would not believe them. Isn't that how Satan operates? Please remember that Wilford Woodruff died when he went to talk at the Bohemian Grove Club, about 1898. I didn't see the Church repenting in sackcloth and ashes for that. So, it is likely that today the Church is still controlled by those evil powers. You don't walk away from a meeting like that unblemished.

What I have found are photos of Prophets giving the temple handshake to people like the Pope or various presidents.

[Chris]

Where is the evidence?

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both.

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.

hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?

Because it didnt happen, that is why. First off there is one person who makes a direct accusation against him, thats it. The ones that talked about hookers and people being there. Insinuated that is what THEY THOUGHT was happening. but they didnt say they KNEW it was happening. There information was a joke, their testimony was a joke and their accusations against President Hinckley is a joke.

Speaking ill against anyone is a sin, especially the Lords anoited.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Because it didnt happen, that is why. First off there is one person who makes a direct accusation against him, thats it. The ones that talked about hookers and people being there. Insinuated that is what THEY THOUGHT was happening. but they didnt say they KNEW it was happening. There information was a joke, their testimony was a joke and their accusations against President Hinckley is a joke.

Speaking ill against anyone is a sin, especially the Lords anoited.

You've essentially condemned all BoM prophets. Calling the actions of a person "sinful" is not speaking ill of them. Rumors and lies are wrong. You just choose to believe these men are "anointed."

[Chris]

Because it didnt happen, that is why. First off there is one person who makes a direct accusation against him, thats it. The ones that talked about hookers and people being there. Insinuated that is what THEY THOUGHT was happening. but they didnt say they KNEW it was happening. There information was a joke, their testimony was a joke and their accusations against President Hinckley is a joke.

Speaking ill against anyone is a sin, especially the Lords anoited.

You've essentially condemned all BoM prophets. Calling the actions of a person "sinful" is not speaking ill of them. Rumors and lies are wrong. You just choose to believe these men are "anointed."

You are assuming you think think those prophets are condeming the Presiding high priest of the world, the one who holds the same of office of the man who brought forth their book for our day. If that were the case i am sure he would have used different language. You look at the scriptures and think the people he is condeming is the leadshership of the church. I read it and i think they are condeming those who live in the land the gentiles it specifically states he is condeming. Yes some memebers of the church fall into that category i totally agree and i am sure many leaders do too, maybe even half of them. But Not the church as a whole and not the priesthood keys, that Nephi later goes on to say that the Lord will bless with great power in the last days, that the power of the lamb will descend upon them which..... ( i know with certaintity that happens on the day of the earthquake ) at least for about 144 thousand of them, that is and then many more. I wont eleborate on that.

But at this point it is a difference of opinion. I think one thing we can all agree on is crazy days ahead and we all need to be getting our preps and getting prepared for what is coming and hopefully the Lord will help us all navigate what is coming.

[Chris]

There are currently at least three women that are testifying on Youtube about being abused by Leaders in the Church, including in the Salt Lake City Temple.
A lot of people are inclined to dismiss them, because their stories are so evil. But, I know that in other cases in the US, the children were subjected to such abuse and almost unbelievable things, that people would not believe them. Isn't that how Satan operates? Please remember that Wilford Woodruff died when he went to talk at the Bohemian Grove Club, about 1895. I didn't see the Church repenting in sackcloth and ashes for that. So, it is likely that today the Church is still controlled by those evil powers. You don't walk away from a meeting like that unblemished.

What I have found are photos of Prophets giving the temple handshake to people like the Pope or various presidents.

I am so sick and tired of people trying to saying Wilford did anything wrong for dying in a place that would one day have evil intentions. Give me a break. It was not that bad back then and did not stand for what it does today. That is like someone finding a picture a colored in primary as a kid with a rainbow on it and saying the church has brain washed me and tried to make me gay....... Rainbow once stood for something that it no longer does today....... Woodruff was a good man, just as the brethren are today. Even with their blemishes that come from living on this sad world.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You are assuming you think think those prophets are condeming the Presiding high priest of the world, the one who holds the same of office of the man who brought forth their book for our day. If that were the case i am sure he would have used different language. You look at the scriptures and think the people he is condeming is the leadshership of the church. I read it and i think they are condeming those who live in the land the gentiles it specifically states he is condeming. Yes some memebers of the church fall into that category i totally agree and i am sure many leaders do too, maybe even half of them. But Not the church as a whole and not the priesthood keys, that Nephi later goes on to say that the Lord will bless with great power in the last days, that the power of the lamb will descend upon them which..... ( i know with certaintity that happens on the day of the earthquake ) at least for about 144 thousand of them, that is and then many more. I wont eleborate on that.

But at this point it is a difference of opinion. I think one thing we can all agree on is crazy days ahead and we all need to be getting our preps and getting prepared for what is coming and hopefully the Lord will help us all navigate what is coming.

Your statement sounds so arrogant. You have made idols of these men and their positions.

BTW, you need to read the BoM again: (3 Nephi 6, prophesy repeating)

27 Now it came to pass that those judges had many friends and kindreds; and the remainder, yea, even almost all the lawyers and the high priests, did gather themselves together, and unite with the kindreds of those judges who were to be tried according to the law.

28 And they did enter into a covenant one with another, yea, even into that covenant which was given by them of old, which covenant was given and administered by the devil, to combine against all righteousness.

29 Therefore they did combine against the people of the Lord, and enter into a covenant to destroy them, and to deliver those who were guilty of murder from the grasp of justice, which was about to be administered according to the law.

30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.

[Joan7]

There are currently at least three women that are testifying on Youtube about being abused by Leaders in the Church, including in the Salt Lake City Temple.
A lot of people are inclined to dismiss them, because their stories are so evil. But, I know that in other cases in the US, the children were subjected to such abuse and almost unbelievable things, that people would not believe them. Isn't that how Satan operates? Please remember that Wilford Woodruff died when he went to talk at the Bohemian Grove Club, about 1895. I didn't see the Church repenting in sackcloth and ashes for that. So, it is likely that today the Church is still controlled by those evil powers. You don't walk away from a meeting like that unblemished.

What I have found are photos of Prophets giving the temple handshake to people like the Pope or various presidents.

I am so sick and tired of people trying to saying Wilford did anything wrong for dying in a place that would one day have evil intentions. Give me a break. It was not that bad back then and did not stand for what it does today. That is like someone finding a picture a colored in primary as a kid with a rainbow on it and saying the church has brain washed me and tried to make me gay....... Rainbow once stood for something that it no longer does today....... Woodruff was a good man, just as the brethren are today. Even with their blemishes that come from living on this sad world.

The Bohemian Grove Club started as an evil organization. Have you done any investigation at all in this area? I have. You don't know what you are talking about.

So, go ahead and choose to be sick and tired. But, I think the Lord would prefer you to look and see and search and study and ponder and ask Him.

I am certain that a good man would never, ever have urged all my family and loved ones to go to Babylon and inject themselves with something that supposedly had only been tested a few months. He was a physician. He knew that was far from normal. And, where was any thought of "come out of Babylon, my people?" Now, the majority of my family are yoked with a grievous yoke that is not the Savior's.

I have been watching for the signs of the times all my life. So, when suddenly all the nations of the world, in unison, begin telling their people to come and get something in their bodies, it should have been a flashing red, neon sign, AVOID at ALL COSTS, type of experience for members of the Church. But, here we had our leaders, saying "it's Godsend," just go get it. You know, kind of like those voices trying to draw you away from the iron rod.

No, a good man would never be involved in the deaths of my family members, due to wicked counsel.