Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

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Chris
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Chris »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:49 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:18 pm
You are assuming you think think those prophets are condeming the Presiding high priest of the world, the one who holds the same of office of the man who brought forth their book for our day. If that were the case i am sure he would have used different language. You look at the scriptures and think the people he is condeming is the leadshership of the church. I read it and i think they are condeming those who live in the land the gentiles it specifically states he is condeming. Yes some memebers of the church fall into that category i totally agree and i am sure many leaders do too, maybe even half of them. But Not the church as a whole and not the priesthood keys, that Nephi later goes on to say that the Lord will bless with great power in the last days, that the power of the lamb will descend upon them which..... ( i know with certaintity that happens on the day of the earthquake ) at least for about 144 thousand of them, that is and then many more. I wont eleborate on that.

But at this point it is a difference of opinion. I think one thing we can all agree on is crazy days ahead and we all need to be getting our preps and getting prepared for what is coming and hopefully the Lord will help us all navigate what is coming.
Your statement sounds so arrogant. You have made idols of these men and their positions.

BTW, you need to read the BoM again: (3 Nephi 6, prophesy repeating)

27 Now it came to pass that those judges had many friends and kindreds; and the remainder, yea, even almost all the lawyers and the high priests, did gather themselves together, and unite with the kindreds of those judges who were to be tried according to the law.

28 And they did enter into a covenant one with another, yea, even into that covenant which was given by them of old, which covenant was given and administered by the devil, to combine against all righteousness.

29 Therefore they did combine against the people of the Lord, and enter into a covenant to destroy them, and to deliver those who were guilty of murder from the grasp of justice, which was about to be administered according to the law.

30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.
That is not prophesying of the future, that is the history of what happened to them.

Chris
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Chris »

Kit-OTW wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:31 pm
Kit-OTW wrote: September 5th, 2022, 1:36 pm There are currently at least three women that are testifying on Youtube about being abused by Leaders in the Church, including in the Salt Lake City Temple.
A lot of people are inclined to dismiss them, because their stories are so evil. But, I know that in other cases in the US, the children were subjected to such abuse and almost unbelievable things, that people would not believe them. Isn't that how Satan operates? Please remember that Wilford Woodruff died when he went to talk at the Bohemian Grove Club, about 1895. I didn't see the Church repenting in sackcloth and ashes for that. So, it is likely that today the Church is still controlled by those evil powers. You don't walk away from a meeting like that unblemished.

What I have found are photos of Prophets giving the temple handshake to people like the Pope or various presidents.
I am so sick and tired of people trying to saying Wilford did anything wrong for dying in a place that would one day have evil intentions. Give me a break. It was not that bad back then and did not stand for what it does today. That is like someone finding a picture a colored in primary as a kid with a rainbow on it and saying the church has brain washed me and tried to make me gay....... Rainbow once stood for something that it no longer does today....... Woodruff was a good man, just as the brethren are today. Even with their blemishes that come from living on this sad world.
The Bohemian Grove Club started as an evil organization. Have you done any investigation at all in this area? I have. You don't know what you are talking about.

So, go ahead and choose to be sick and tired. But, I think the Lord would prefer you to look and see and search and study and ponder and ask Him.

I am certain that a good man would never, ever have urged all my family and loved ones to go to Babylon and inject themselves with something that supposedly had only been tested a few months. He was a physician. He knew that was far from normal. And, where was any thought of "come out of Babylon, my people?" Now, the majority of my family are yoked with a grievous yoke that is not the Savior's.

I have been watching for the signs of the times all my life. So, when suddenly all the nations of the world, in unison, begin telling their people to come and get something in their bodies, it should have been a flashing red, neon sign, AVOID at ALL COSTS, type of experience for members of the Church. But, here we had our leaders, saying "it's Godsend," just go get it. You know, kind of like those voices trying to draw you away from the iron rod.

No, a good man would never be involved in the deaths of my family members, due to wicked counsel.
I have studied it, and it was not what it is now and of he needed to go there to get treatment and rest then that is fine. You need to research exactly what it was at the time

Joan7
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Joan7 »

Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:39 pm
Kit-OTW wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:31 pm
Kit-OTW wrote: September 5th, 2022, 1:36 pm There are currently at least three women that are testifying on Youtube about being abused by Leaders in the Church, including in the Salt Lake City Temple.
A lot of people are inclined to dismiss them, because their stories are so evil. But, I know that in other cases in the US, the children were subjected to such abuse and almost unbelievable things, that people would not believe them. Isn't that how Satan operates? Please remember that Wilford Woodruff died when he went to talk at the Bohemian Grove Club, about 1895. I didn't see the Church repenting in sackcloth and ashes for that. So, it is likely that today the Church is still controlled by those evil powers. You don't walk away from a meeting like that unblemished.

What I have found are photos of Prophets giving the temple handshake to people like the Pope or various presidents.
I am so sick and tired of people trying to saying Wilford did anything wrong for dying in a place that would one day have evil intentions. Give me a break. It was not that bad back then and did not stand for what it does today. That is like someone finding a picture a colored in primary as a kid with a rainbow on it and saying the church has brain washed me and tried to make me gay....... Rainbow once stood for something that it no longer does today....... Woodruff was a good man, just as the brethren are today. Even with their blemishes that come from living on this sad world.
The Bohemian Grove Club started as an evil organization. Have you done any investigation at all in this area? I have. You don't know what you are talking about.

So, go ahead and choose to be sick and tired. But, I think the Lord would prefer you to look and see and search and study and ponder and ask Him.

I am certain that a good man would never, ever have urged all my family and loved ones to go to Babylon and inject themselves with something that supposedly had only been tested a few months. He was a physician. He knew that was far from normal. And, where was any thought of "come out of Babylon, my people?" Now, the majority of my family are yoked with a grievous yoke that is not the Savior's.

I have been watching for the signs of the times all my life. So, when suddenly all the nations of the world, in unison, begin telling their people to come and get something in their bodies, it should have been a flashing red, neon sign, AVOID at ALL COSTS, type of experience for members of the Church. But, here we had our leaders, saying "it's Godsend," just go get it. You know, kind of like those voices trying to draw you away from the iron rod.

No, a good man would never be involved in the deaths of my family members, due to wicked counsel.
I have studied it, and it was not what it is now and of he needed to go there to get treatment and rest then that is fine. You need to research exactly what it was at the time
If you have studied, would you care to comment on this:

Every year, the club hosts a two-week-long (three weekends) camp at Bohemian Grove, which is notable for its illustrious guest list and its eclectic Cremation of Care ceremony which mockingly burns "care" (the normal virtues of life) for Moloch with grand pageantry, pyrotechnics, and brilliant costumes, all done at the edge of a lake and at the base of a forty-foot "stone" owl statue (actually made of concrete). That ceremony was devised by co-founder James F. Bowman in 1881.

Chris
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Chris »

Kit-OTW wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:46 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:39 pm
Kit-OTW wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:31 pm

I am so sick and tired of people trying to saying Wilford did anything wrong for dying in a place that would one day have evil intentions. Give me a break. It was not that bad back then and did not stand for what it does today. That is like someone finding a picture a colored in primary as a kid with a rainbow on it and saying the church has brain washed me and tried to make me gay....... Rainbow once stood for something that it no longer does today....... Woodruff was a good man, just as the brethren are today. Even with their blemishes that come from living on this sad world.
The Bohemian Grove Club started as an evil organization. Have you done any investigation at all in this area? I have. You don't know what you are talking about.

So, go ahead and choose to be sick and tired. But, I think the Lord would prefer you to look and see and search and study and ponder and ask Him.

I am certain that a good man would never, ever have urged all my family and loved ones to go to Babylon and inject themselves with something that supposedly had only been tested a few months. He was a physician. He knew that was far from normal. And, where was any thought of "come out of Babylon, my people?" Now, the majority of my family are yoked with a grievous yoke that is not the Savior's.

I have been watching for the signs of the times all my life. So, when suddenly all the nations of the world, in unison, begin telling their people to come and get something in their bodies, it should have been a flashing red, neon sign, AVOID at ALL COSTS, type of experience for members of the Church. But, here we had our leaders, saying "it's Godsend," just go get it. You know, kind of like those voices trying to draw you away from the iron rod.

No, a good man would never be involved in the deaths of my family members, due to wicked counsel.
I have studied it, and it was not what it is now and of he needed to go there to get treatment and rest then that is fine. You need to research exactly what it was at the time
If you have studied, would you care to comment on this:

Every year, the club hosts a two-week-long (three weekends) camp at Bohemian Grove, which is notable for its illustrious guest list and its eclectic Cremation of Care ceremony which mockingly burns "care" (the normal virtues of life) for Moloch with grand pageantry, pyrotechnics, and brilliant costumes, all done at the edge of a lake and at the base of a forty-foot "stone" owl statue (actually made of concrete). That ceremony was devised by co-founder James F. Bowman in 1881.
What happens during the other 50 weeks, and when was that actually implimented. I know just want to see if you do.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:49 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:18 pm
You are assuming you think think those prophets are condeming the Presiding high priest of the world, the one who holds the same of office of the man who brought forth their book for our day. If that were the case i am sure he would have used different language. You look at the scriptures and think the people he is condeming is the leadshership of the church. I read it and i think they are condeming those who live in the land the gentiles it specifically states he is condeming. Yes some memebers of the church fall into that category i totally agree and i am sure many leaders do too, maybe even half of them. But Not the church as a whole and not the priesthood keys, that Nephi later goes on to say that the Lord will bless with great power in the last days, that the power of the lamb will descend upon them which..... ( i know with certaintity that happens on the day of the earthquake ) at least for about 144 thousand of them, that is and then many more. I wont eleborate on that.

But at this point it is a difference of opinion. I think one thing we can all agree on is crazy days ahead and we all need to be getting our preps and getting prepared for what is coming and hopefully the Lord will help us all navigate what is coming.
Your statement sounds so arrogant. You have made idols of these men and their positions.

BTW, you need to read the BoM again: (3 Nephi 6, prophesy repeating)

27 Now it came to pass that those judges had many friends and kindreds; and the remainder, yea, even almost all the lawyers and the high priests, did gather themselves together, and unite with the kindreds of those judges who were to be tried according to the law.

28 And they did enter into a covenant one with another, yea, even into that covenant which was given by them of old, which covenant was given and administered by the devil, to combine against all righteousness.

29 Therefore they did combine against the people of the Lord, and enter into a covenant to destroy them, and to deliver those who were guilty of murder from the grasp of justice, which was about to be administered according to the law.

30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.
That is not prophesying of the future, that is the history of what happened to them.
We have both in the BoM. Existing prophets calling out the wickedness of high priests, and the Lord calling out the Gentiles church. I don’t care who you are, if you lie, cheat, steal from the poor, and commit sexual abominations through polygamy, you were called out in the BoM in our day as prophesied.

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SempiternalHarbinger
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 8:40 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:49 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:18 pm
You are assuming you think think those prophets are condeming the Presiding high priest of the world, the one who holds the same of office of the man who brought forth their book for our day. If that were the case i am sure he would have used different language. You look at the scriptures and think the people he is condeming is the leadshership of the church. I read it and i think they are condeming those who live in the land the gentiles it specifically states he is condeming. Yes some memebers of the church fall into that category i totally agree and i am sure many leaders do too, maybe even half of them. But Not the church as a whole and not the priesthood keys, that Nephi later goes on to say that the Lord will bless with great power in the last days, that the power of the lamb will descend upon them which..... ( i know with certaintity that happens on the day of the earthquake ) at least for about 144 thousand of them, that is and then many more. I wont eleborate on that.

But at this point it is a difference of opinion. I think one thing we can all agree on is crazy days ahead and we all need to be getting our preps and getting prepared for what is coming and hopefully the Lord will help us all navigate what is coming.
Your statement sounds so arrogant. You have made idols of these men and their positions.

BTW, you need to read the BoM again: (3 Nephi 6, prophesy repeating)

27 Now it came to pass that those judges had many friends and kindreds; and the remainder, yea, even almost all the lawyers and the high priests, did gather themselves together, and unite with the kindreds of those judges who were to be tried according to the law.

28 And they did enter into a covenant one with another, yea, even into that covenant which was given by them of old, which covenant was given and administered by the devil, to combine against all righteousness.

29 Therefore they did combine against the people of the Lord, and enter into a covenant to destroy them, and to deliver those who were guilty of murder from the grasp of justice, which was about to be administered according to the law.

30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.
That is not prophesying of the future, that is the history of what happened to them.
We have both in the BoM. Existing prophets calling out the wickedness of high priests, and the Lord calling out the Gentiles church. I don’t care who you are, if you lie, cheat, steal from the poor, and commit sexual abominations through polygamy, you were called out in the BoM in our day as prophesied.
Who killed the great prophet, Isaiah?

How was the great prophet Isaiah able to prophesy events in the last days?

"And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah. For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles. And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake." -Jesus Christ; 3 Nephi 23:1-3

Simply put, Isaiah knew the future because he knew the past. That's what he does, recount the past, the history of Israel, "have been and shall be".
"The Prophecy of Isaiah, encoded by literary devices, reveals a vision of the end of the world and brings to light parts of Hebrew religion that were lost. The Book of Isaiah shows that the end is foretold by events that occurred in the beginning, the future mirroring the past." -Avraham Gileadi
"Showing how Isaiah predicts the end from the beginning by prophesying new versions of ancient events. Uncovering an implicit sequence or chronology of end-time events that becomes apparent when linking together new versions of ancient events, domino fashion, throughout the text. Determining that the end of the world is contained in Israel's past, in a repetition of ancient events within its own sequence called the "Day of Jehovah." -Avraham Gileadi
The patterns of history are repeating themselves. True prophets of God are usually considered haters, divisive, and combative toward God's covenant people. Thus, woe unto Israel, woe unto the shepherds of Israel, woe unto the prophets of Israel, woe unto the leaders of Israel, woe unto the covenant people of Israel, woe unto you who are complacent in Zion, etc. That's the crazy thing, the prophets of old condemned the Lord's covenant people, they did not glorify them. I get it, we love to hear smooth things like all is well in Zion, we have prophets who will never lead us astray, and the church is true, however, Israel's history is a repeated pattern and is one of the reasons why Jesus Christ taught the importance of the great words Isaiah. The problem is our false traditions do not allow us to even consider Israel's history to repeat itself in our day, but it is.

This was exactly Laman and Lemuel's problem with their old man Lehi and why the Jews rejected Jeremiah. Those damn false traditions, the very traditions we hold dear today...

1 Nephi 17:22 And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words…

We LDS and our leaders are as righteous as the Jews of old. lol

Lehi was critical and judged the prophets and the church of God (as did many prophets of old. No doubt Laman and Lemuel believe what we believe today. The difference is... our prophets cannot lead us astray and our lds church is more righteous than theirs. We are special and exempt from repeated history throughout time. And what was the church busy doing during Lehi's time? Building temples. Go figure. It's also interesting that every time Jeremiah brings up "prophets" (45+ times) he is always referring to false prophets. I believe Lehi's and Jeremiah's day is very reminiscent of our own, but with our current beliefs, we cannot even be open to that possibility. Laman and Lemuel would fit in perfectly with the TBM members because they were TBJ in their own time. But what ended up happening to the great, righteous city of Jerusalem and its leaders/prophets? They were wiped off the face of the earth as it is predicted in the end times.

Woe unto Israel, woe unto the shepherds of Israel, woe unto the prophets of Israel, woe unto the leaders of Israel, woe unto the covenant people of Israel,, woe unto you who are complacent in Zion, etc. Isaiah predicted we would smooth his words out and proclaim all is well. Boy was he prophetic. The true prophets of old condemnation of Israel and their prophets have nothing to do with our day and time, blah, blah, blah. Right.

"I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah." -Jeremiah

"...the Lord will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day. The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.” Isaiah 9:14-16

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SempiternalHarbinger wrote: September 5th, 2022, 9:23 pm
The patterns of history are repeating themselves. True prophets of God are usually considered haters, divisive, and combative toward God's covenant people. Thus, woe unto Israel, woe unto the shepherds of Israel, woe unto the prophets of Israel, woe unto the leaders of Israel, woe unto the covenant people of Israel, woe unto you who are complacent in Zion, etc. That's the crazy thing, the prophets of old condemned the Lord's covenant people, they did not glorify them. I get it, we love to hear smooth things like all is well in Zion, we have prophets who will never lead us astray, and the church is true, however, Israel's history is a repeated pattern and is one of the reasons why Jesus Christ taught the importance of the great words Isaiah. The problem is our false traditions do not allow us to even consider Israel's history to repeat itself in our day, but it is.

Lehi was critical and judged the prophets and the church of God (as did many prophets of old. No doubt Laman and Lemuel believe what we believe today. The difference is... our prophets cannot lead us astray and our lds church is more righteous than theirs. We are special and exempt from repeated history throughout time. And what was the church busy doing during Lehi's time? Building temples. Go figure. It's also interesting that every time Jeremiah brings up "prophets" (45+ times) he is always referring to false prophets. I believe Lehi's and Jeremiah's day is very reminiscent of our own, but with our current beliefs, we cannot even be open to that possibility. Laman and Lemuel would fit in perfectly with the TBM members because they were TBJ in their own time. But what ended up happening to the great, righteous city of Jerusalem and its leaders/prophets? They were wiped off the face of the earth as it is predicted in the end times.
I honestly can’t tell if you are joking with the parts I highlighted red. (Most of what you wrote actually) These are the most damning and prideful philosophies in the church.

I wrote an essay exploring this idea: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... f-prophets

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ransomme
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by ransomme »

Atrasado wrote: September 4th, 2022, 9:47 am
Chris wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 8:38 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 5:40 pm
oneClimbs wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:21 pm Where is the evidence?
Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both. :)
95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.
You can think whatever you want. That's everyone's privilege. I'm just not sure why you think the things you do because when I look at the scriptures they have plenty of charges of fiscal malfeasance laid against churches leaders.

For example, Ezekiel wrote this about when Christ comes to personally lead the gathering of Israel:
34:10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
The Lord gave Joseph Smith the parable of the nobleman and the olive trees about the Church in the latter days. This part is right at the time leading into the tribulations (we know this because it says right after this that the enemy broke down their hedge and destroyed their works and that directly after this the Lord will commission His servant, Joseph Smith to lead His servants into battle),
47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?
48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?
49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.
50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.
I wonder which servants will take the Lord's money and invest it in the markets.

Perhaps Isaiah wrote the most vividly,
56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
Interesting to consider since once they went west and got to Utah it didn't take much time at all to align themselves with the big bankers and invite the federal reserve to SLC soon after that became a thing. The downright petitioned the Fed to come.

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FrankOne
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by FrankOne »

After having read and participated in this thread , I honestly cannot understand why people need to have a man to lead them in spiritual affairs. There is only one reason that people defend the leadership of the LDS or ANY church is because they "need" their leader in order to feel better about their lives, and when that leader's authority is threatened or destroyed, the member's faith is crushed to dust.

If there comes an epoch event of biblical proportions and a true end times Prophet stands up to set things in order for the return of Christ, I'll certainly listen with open ears, but if he tells me that we need to go kill every living thing in a city, unborn and born babies etc....and mop up the blood and move into their houses, I'll still walk away as I would have done in the account of Joshua. Yah, I question everything that violates moral law whether they be "Gods" or men.

Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 9:36 pm
SempiternalHarbinger wrote: September 5th, 2022, 9:23 pm
The patterns of history are repeating themselves. True prophets of God are usually considered haters, divisive, and combative toward God's covenant people. Thus, woe unto Israel, woe unto the shepherds of Israel, woe unto the prophets of Israel, woe unto the leaders of Israel, woe unto the covenant people of Israel, woe unto you who are complacent in Zion, etc. That's the crazy thing, the prophets of old condemned the Lord's covenant people, they did not glorify them. I get it, we love to hear smooth things like all is well in Zion, we have prophets who will never lead us astray, and the church is true, however, Israel's history is a repeated pattern and is one of the reasons why Jesus Christ taught the importance of the great words Isaiah. The problem is our false traditions do not allow us to even consider Israel's history to repeat itself in our day, but it is.

Lehi was critical and judged the prophets and the church of God (as did many prophets of old. No doubt Laman and Lemuel believe what we believe today. The difference is... our prophets cannot lead us astray and our lds church is more righteous than theirs. We are special and exempt from repeated history throughout time. And what was the church busy doing during Lehi's time? Building temples. Go figure. It's also interesting that every time Jeremiah brings up "prophets" (45+ times) he is always referring to false prophets. I believe Lehi's and Jeremiah's day is very reminiscent of our own, but with our current beliefs, we cannot even be open to that possibility. Laman and Lemuel would fit in perfectly with the TBM members because they were TBJ in their own time. But what ended up happening to the great, righteous city of Jerusalem and its leaders/prophets? They were wiped off the face of the earth as it is predicted in the end times.
I honestly can’t tell if you are joking with the parts I highlighted red. (Most of what you wrote actually) These are the most damning and prideful philosophies in the church.

I wrote an essay exploring this idea: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... f-prophets
:) I think it's apparent he was joking, exaggerating to show the absurdity. But what would be really funny is if he wasn't. :)

Ado
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Ado »

CMajor wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 4:56 am https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/russell- ... -laws-god/

This is the talk where potassium chloride is explained in its unique use.

Back on November 19, 2021 there was a moon eclipse, exceptionally long. The longest in 580 years. It appeared I believe when Taurus was in Scorpio, meaning "Hidden Secrets would be revealed" on a local, national, and world wide level. It was a big deal about secrets being revealed for the next 18 months to come.

In Isaiah 19:3 a prophecy about America. Isaiah used the word 'Egypt' for America.
"And the SPIRIT of "America" shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof:"
This sounds exactly where we are nearly at. The Spiritual Counsel will be destroyed. The hidden secrets come out, not just our church, but all churches. The next line describes the actions of the members who idolized their leaders, rather than being anchored in Christ.
..."and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards."

In 1857 I believe it was Heber C Kimball who prophesied that the day would come that half of the active members would leave the church. The church buildings and temples would be locked up by the government.

According to the executive order of 20 December 2017, all of those involved in child/sex slavery will have all their assets seized. That could involve locking churches and temples. "Behold vengeance cometh speedily...First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord. (DC 112:24-26)

The military is presently arresting those who are involved in crimes against humanity, child sex slavery. As well as treason, etc.

President Benson was just beginning to talk about the secret combinations infiltrating every institution in his Conference talks...
When the brethren tied him up in the pink room of the Salt Lake temple basement. He was forced to watch them take a baby not yet born from a mother on the alter. Then eat and drink the blood of the baby. They told Benson if he ever wanted to speak in Conference again he would have to join them. He nodded NO. The mother, an MK Ultra product, was instructed to take a bat and strike President Benson in the head with it several times, which she obediently did. He did not injure his head in a fall. And after his operation, he never spoke again. President Benson missed 2 General conferences. His next Conference he attended, they wrote a generic talk, and someone read it for him.

That's when the Grandson, Lee Benson got a little revenge by outing Paul H Dunn, and his combined story telling. Dunn was latered mentioned as being a handler of the Cummings Sisters, MK Ultra. (Kristy Allen testimony) They had one brother, Paul Cummings a track star at BYU.

The earthquake proofing of the SL Temple was a great way to remove the pink room evidence. I believe the dedication of the temple to last a thousand years would have worked just fine, God's power would secure the temple.
Where did you get this information about a pink room and that happening to President Benson?

Atrasado
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Atrasado »

Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 3:03 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 4th, 2022, 8:44 pm
Chris wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 8:38 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 5:40 pm

Are you referring to evidence that the eye witnesses are lying? I also, am awaiting that. Or proof that they are lying. Either one will work for me. Gotta be accurate with my choice of words, so... I choose both. :)
95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.
hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?
Because it didnt happen, that is why. First off there is one person who makes a direct accusation against him, thats it. The ones that talked about hookers and people being there. Insinuated that is what THEY THOUGHT was happening. but they didnt say they KNEW it was happening. There information was a joke, their testimony was a joke and their accusations against President Hinckley is a joke.

Speaking ill against anyone is a sin, especially the Lords anoited.
So why did the Lord put into the D&C a part on how to excommunicate the president of the Church? If you can't speak ill of someone, even if it is true, how could that part ever be used? Are all policemen and prosecutors sinning? Don't they speak ill of people? Are people who report being abused sinning because they spoke ill of their abuser? You turn reason onto her head.

The Lord said not to bear ****false**** witness. Tolerating a possible evil because otherwise, we will be speaking ill of someone is NOT the Lord's way. Gadianton would have loved that interpretation. Good grief!

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Silver Pie
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Silver Pie »

He was being snarky. 😁
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 9:36 pm
SempiternalHarbinger wrote: September 5th, 2022, 9:23 pm
The patterns of history are repeating themselves. True prophets of God are usually considered haters, divisive, and combative toward God's covenant people. Thus, woe unto Israel, woe unto the shepherds of Israel, woe unto the prophets of Israel, woe unto the leaders of Israel, woe unto the covenant people of Israel, woe unto you who are complacent in Zion, etc. That's the crazy thing, the prophets of old condemned the Lord's covenant people, they did not glorify them. I get it, we love to hear smooth things like all is well in Zion, we have prophets who will never lead us astray, and the church is true, however, Israel's history is a repeated pattern and is one of the reasons why Jesus Christ taught the importance of the great words Isaiah. The problem is our false traditions do not allow us to even consider Israel's history to repeat itself in our day, but it is.

Lehi was critical and judged the prophets and the church of God (as did many prophets of old. No doubt Laman and Lemuel believe what we believe today. The difference is... our prophets cannot lead us astray and our lds church is more righteous than theirs. We are special and exempt from repeated history throughout time. And what was the church busy doing during Lehi's time? Building temples. Go figure. It's also interesting that every time Jeremiah brings up "prophets" (45+ times) he is always referring to false prophets. I believe Lehi's and Jeremiah's day is very reminiscent of our own, but with our current beliefs, we cannot even be open to that possibility. Laman and Lemuel would fit in perfectly with the TBM members because they were TBJ in their own time. But what ended up happening to the great, righteous city of Jerusalem and its leaders/prophets? They were wiped off the face of the earth as it is predicted in the end times.
I honestly can’t tell if you are joking with the parts I highlighted red. (Most of what you wrote actually) These are the most damning and prideful philosophies in the church.

I wrote an essay exploring this idea: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... f-prophets

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JLHPROF
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by JLHPROF »

Atrasado wrote: September 7th, 2022, 4:35 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 3:03 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 4th, 2022, 8:44 pm
Chris wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 8:38 pm

95% of the video is stating they saw hinckley at a party and nothing more. Who freaking cares. Who hasnt been to partys. None of them say they saw anything except the disgruntled exed member..... again no proof and in my view not a credible testimony.

The fact that he then went on to claim money laundering in my book totally destroys his credibility, then drugs, come on........ it is much easier to get someone to believe one misdead then many. Also it is nearly impossible for someone to launder money in the way he described, even back then.

I was waiting for him to say they also train all missionairies in the mtc to be drug runners....

I view this video as i view godmakers, and just about everyother piece of anti mormon literature....

Also i dont care enough to look at this, but most of his early life after his mission was spent outside of utah.....

I think this is all crap.
hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?
Because it didnt happen, that is why. First off there is one person who makes a direct accusation against him, thats it. The ones that talked about hookers and people being there. Insinuated that is what THEY THOUGHT was happening. but they didnt say they KNEW it was happening. There information was a joke, their testimony was a joke and their accusations against President Hinckley is a joke.

Speaking ill against anyone is a sin, especially the Lords anoited.
So why did the Lord put into the D&C a part on how to excommunicate the president of the Church? If you can't speak ill of someone, even if it is true, how could that part ever be used? Are all policemen and prosecutors sinning? Don't they speak ill of people? Are people who report being abused sinning because they spoke ill of their abuser? You turn reason onto her head.

The Lord said not to bear ****false**** witness. Tolerating a possible evil because otherwise, we will be speaking ill of someone is NOT the Lord's way. Gadianton would have loved that interpretation. Good grief!
Whether D&C 107 is referring to excommunicating the President of the Church is very debatable.

Atrasado
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Atrasado »

JLHPROF wrote: September 8th, 2022, 1:32 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 7th, 2022, 4:35 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 3:03 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 4th, 2022, 8:44 pm

hm. I grew up in Las Vegas. When I was younger, I went to some crazy parties but I never encountered any where there were women that were rounded up to attend and entertain men sexually ..... that paired off with the 'guests' into bedrooms to have sex. Why omit that salient detail of your posts? All the witnesses said this. Everyone goes to these types of parties? uh. no. and I wasn't considered a stand up mormon in my earlier days either. Those types of parties, yah...I had heard of them, but who would ever go to that type of party except sick men?
Because it didnt happen, that is why. First off there is one person who makes a direct accusation against him, thats it. The ones that talked about hookers and people being there. Insinuated that is what THEY THOUGHT was happening. but they didnt say they KNEW it was happening. There information was a joke, their testimony was a joke and their accusations against President Hinckley is a joke.

Speaking ill against anyone is a sin, especially the Lords anoited.
So why did the Lord put into the D&C a part on how to excommunicate the president of the Church? If you can't speak ill of someone, even if it is true, how could that part ever be used? Are all policemen and prosecutors sinning? Don't they speak ill of people? Are people who report being abused sinning because they spoke ill of their abuser? You turn reason onto her head.

The Lord said not to bear ****false**** witness. Tolerating a possible evil because otherwise, we will be speaking ill of someone is NOT the Lord's way. Gadianton would have loved that interpretation. Good grief!
Whether D&C 107 is referring to excommunicating the President of the Church is very debatable.
I see this differently. When v. 81 says that "There is not any person belonging to the church who is exempt from this council of the church," and then v. 82 says, "inasmuch as a President of the High Priesthood shall transgress, he shall be had in remembrance before the common council of the church," the meaning seems plain to me. That is, no one, not even a President of the High Priesthood (so really this is for any member of the First Presidency) is exempt from Church discipline. If you don't see it that way, that's fine, we all have our agency. But the meaning seems clear to me.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Atrasado wrote: September 8th, 2022, 4:35 pm
JLHPROF wrote: September 8th, 2022, 1:32 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 7th, 2022, 4:35 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 3:03 pm

Because it didnt happen, that is why. First off there is one person who makes a direct accusation against him, thats it. The ones that talked about hookers and people being there. Insinuated that is what THEY THOUGHT was happening. but they didnt say they KNEW it was happening. There information was a joke, their testimony was a joke and their accusations against President Hinckley is a joke.

Speaking ill against anyone is a sin, especially the Lords anoited.
So why did the Lord put into the D&C a part on how to excommunicate the president of the Church? If you can't speak ill of someone, even if it is true, how could that part ever be used? Are all policemen and prosecutors sinning? Don't they speak ill of people? Are people who report being abused sinning because they spoke ill of their abuser? You turn reason onto her head.

The Lord said not to bear ****false**** witness. Tolerating a possible evil because otherwise, we will be speaking ill of someone is NOT the Lord's way. Gadianton would have loved that interpretation. Good grief!
Whether D&C 107 is referring to excommunicating the President of the Church is very debatable.
I see this differently. When v. 81 says that "There is not any person belonging to the church who is exempt from this council of the church," and then v. 82 says, "inasmuch as a President of the High Priesthood shall transgress, he shall be had in remembrance before the common council of the church," the meaning seems plain to me. That is, no one, not even a President of the High Priesthood (so really this is for any member of the First Presidency) is exempt from Church discipline. If you don't see it that way, that's fine, we all have our agency. But the meaning seems clear to me.
It's clear to me.

Logic is sound. Why would there be a procedure for the president of the church to be disciplined if it is impossible for the president of the church to lead the church astray?

Mamabear
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Mamabear »

From an interview in 2002 (when ensign peak was 5 years old):

Reporter: "In my country, we say the people's churches, the Protestants, the Catholics, they publish all their budgets, to all the public."

Hinckley: "Yeah, Yeah."

Reporter: "Why is it impossible for your church?"

Hinckley: "We simply think that information belongs to those who made the contribution, and not to the world."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XSmce7y9ahU

So people who “made the contribution” (paid tithing) back then, knew about the church’s money?

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BigT
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by BigT »

Here is another point of view from Watcher regarding the original video in this thread. Scroll down to email #4.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... -prophets/

And another interesting post regarding Hinckley & Monson and communism. Draw your own conclusions but my money is on them being the 2 sent to infiltrate the church.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... -andersen/

Atrasado
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Atrasado »

SempiternalHarbinger wrote: September 5th, 2022, 9:23 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 8:40 pm
Chris wrote: September 5th, 2022, 7:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 5th, 2022, 6:49 pm

Your statement sounds so arrogant. You have made idols of these men and their positions.

BTW, you need to read the BoM again: (3 Nephi 6, prophesy repeating)

27 Now it came to pass that those judges had many friends and kindreds; and the remainder, yea, even almost all the lawyers and the high priests, did gather themselves together, and unite with the kindreds of those judges who were to be tried according to the law.

28 And they did enter into a covenant one with another, yea, even into that covenant which was given by them of old, which covenant was given and administered by the devil, to combine against all righteousness.

29 Therefore they did combine against the people of the Lord, and enter into a covenant to destroy them, and to deliver those who were guilty of murder from the grasp of justice, which was about to be administered according to the law.

30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.
That is not prophesying of the future, that is the history of what happened to them.
We have both in the BoM. Existing prophets calling out the wickedness of high priests, and the Lord calling out the Gentiles church. I don’t care who you are, if you lie, cheat, steal from the poor, and commit sexual abominations through polygamy, you were called out in the BoM in our day as prophesied.
Who killed the great prophet, Isaiah?

How was the great prophet Isaiah able to prophesy events in the last days?

"And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah. For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles. And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake." -Jesus Christ; 3 Nephi 23:1-3

Simply put, Isaiah knew the future because he knew the past. That's what he does, recount the past, the history of Israel, "have been and shall be".
"The Prophecy of Isaiah, encoded by literary devices, reveals a vision of the end of the world and brings to light parts of Hebrew religion that were lost. The Book of Isaiah shows that the end is foretold by events that occurred in the beginning, the future mirroring the past." -Avraham Gileadi
"Showing how Isaiah predicts the end from the beginning by prophesying new versions of ancient events. Uncovering an implicit sequence or chronology of end-time events that becomes apparent when linking together new versions of ancient events, domino fashion, throughout the text. Determining that the end of the world is contained in Israel's past, in a repetition of ancient events within its own sequence called the "Day of Jehovah." -Avraham Gileadi
The patterns of history are repeating themselves. True prophets of God are usually considered haters, divisive, and combative toward God's covenant people. Thus, woe unto Israel, woe unto the shepherds of Israel, woe unto the prophets of Israel, woe unto the leaders of Israel, woe unto the covenant people of Israel, woe unto you who are complacent in Zion, etc. That's the crazy thing, the prophets of old condemned the Lord's covenant people, they did not glorify them. I get it, we love to hear smooth things like all is well in Zion, we have prophets who will never lead us astray, and the church is true, however, Israel's history is a repeated pattern and is one of the reasons why Jesus Christ taught the importance of the great words Isaiah. The problem is our false traditions do not allow us to even consider Israel's history to repeat itself in our day, but it is.

This was exactly Laman and Lemuel's problem with their old man Lehi and why the Jews rejected Jeremiah. Those damn false traditions, the very traditions we hold dear today...

1 Nephi 17:22 And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words…

We LDS and our leaders are as righteous as the Jews of old. lol

Lehi was critical and judged the prophets and the church of God (as did many prophets of old. No doubt Laman and Lemuel believe what we believe today. The difference is... our prophets cannot lead us astray and our lds church is more righteous than theirs. We are special and exempt from repeated history throughout time. And what was the church busy doing during Lehi's time? Building temples. Go figure. It's also interesting that every time Jeremiah brings up "prophets" (45+ times) he is always referring to false prophets. I believe Lehi's and Jeremiah's day is very reminiscent of our own, but with our current beliefs, we cannot even be open to that possibility. Laman and Lemuel would fit in perfectly with the TBM members because they were TBJ in their own time. But what ended up happening to the great, righteous city of Jerusalem and its leaders/prophets? They were wiped off the face of the earth as it is predicted in the end times.

Woe unto Israel, woe unto the shepherds of Israel, woe unto the prophets of Israel, woe unto the leaders of Israel, woe unto the covenant people of Israel,, woe unto you who are complacent in Zion, etc. Isaiah predicted we would smooth his words out and proclaim all is well. Boy was he prophetic. The true prophets of old condemnation of Israel and their prophets have nothing to do with our day and time, blah, blah, blah. Right.

"I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah." -Jeremiah

"...the Lord will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day. The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.” Isaiah 9:14-16
Thank you for such an insightful post. It clearly shows the scriptures which were written anciently that are now being fulfilled. Reading Isaiah fills me with dread for I know He saw our day and I cannot wake anyone up.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Silver Pie »

Mamabear wrote: September 15th, 2022, 12:11 pm From an interview in 2002 (when ensign peak was 5 years old):

Reporter: "In my country, we say the people's churches, the Protestants, the Catholics, they publish all their budgets, to all the public."

Hinckley: "Yeah, Yeah."

Reporter: "Why is it impossible for your church?"

Hinckley: "We simply think that information belongs to those who made the contribution, and not to the world."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XSmce7y9ahU

So people who “made the contribution” (paid tithing) back then, knew about the church’s money?
No. He lied. (I was alive looong before 2002.)

Chris
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Chris »

FrankOne wrote: September 6th, 2022, 11:30 am After having read and participated in this thread , I honestly cannot understand why people need to have a man to lead them in spiritual affairs. There is only one reason that people defend the leadership of the LDS or ANY church is because they "need" their leader in order to feel better about their lives, and when that leader's authority is threatened or destroyed, the member's faith is crushed to dust.

If there comes an epoch event of biblical proportions and a true end times Prophet stands up to set things in order for the return of Christ, I'll certainly listen with open ears, but if he tells me that we need to go kill every living thing in a city, unborn and born babies etc....and mop up the blood and move into their houses, I'll still walk away as I would have done in the account of Joshua. Yah, I question everything that violates moral law whether they be "Gods" or men.

Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
Well, why stop there. Lets continue with your logic. Why do you need a savior i mean come on give me a break. Why do you need someone to tell you what to do and give you commandments. He never lives up to your expectations right. Who needs a narrow path, with prophets, order, and expectations....

Why not go full libtard spiritualism, denounce all men and all gods. Let universe guide your inklings and lead your path to enlightenment. I mean come on to hell with baptism by proper authority, to hell with temples and priesthood ordinances...... they are all alters of satan and vain leadership that have nothing better to do then committ sin and act like prophets. Right? To hell with all them right and this stupid church joseph established who was a prophet and daniel said would roll forwatd, nut what tge hell do they know. They sure screwed up big time. This is what you guys sound like.

You guys and your bashing of christ anoited and his church knows no bounds.

Chris
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Chris »

BigT wrote: September 15th, 2022, 12:31 pm Here is another point of view from Watcher regarding the original video in this thread. Scroll down to email #4.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... -prophets/

And another interesting post regarding Hinckley & Monson and communism. Draw your own conclusions but my money is on them being the 2 sent to infiltrate the church.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... -andersen/
This is all speculation, there is no way that man would know if his name was submitted or not. All of this is hearsay and bashing with nothing to back anything up.....

Chris
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Chris »

How revelation really works in the church
https://youtu.be/-QeooJLWlkA

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FrankOne
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by FrankOne »

Chris wrote: September 15th, 2022, 8:46 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 6th, 2022, 11:30 am After having read and participated in this thread , I honestly cannot understand why people need to have a man to lead them in spiritual affairs. There is only one reason that people defend the leadership of the LDS or ANY church is because they "need" their leader in order to feel better about their lives, and when that leader's authority is threatened or destroyed, the member's faith is crushed to dust.

If there comes an epoch event of biblical proportions and a true end times Prophet stands up to set things in order for the return of Christ, I'll certainly listen with open ears, but if he tells me that we need to go kill every living thing in a city, unborn and born babies etc....and mop up the blood and move into their houses, I'll still walk away as I would have done in the account of Joshua. Yah, I question everything that violates moral law whether they be "Gods" or men.

Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
Well, why stop there. Lets continue with your logic. Why do you need a savior i mean come on give me a break. Why do you need someone to tell you what to do and give you commandments. He never lives up to your expectations right. Who needs a narrow path, with prophets, order, and expectations....

Why not go full libtard spiritualism, denounce all men and all gods. Let universe guide your inklings and lead your path to enlightenment. I mean come on to hell with baptism by proper authority, to hell with temples and priesthood ordinances...... they are all alters of satan and vain leadership that have nothing better to do then committ sin and act like prophets. Right? To hell with all them right and this stupid church joseph established who was a prophet and daniel said would roll forwatd, nut what tge hell do they know. They sure screwed up big time. This is what you guys sound like.

You guys and your bashing of christ anoited and his church knows no bounds.
Christ has done the work to deliver us. We can accept it or deny it. It's up to us as individuals and has nothing to do with men spiritually leading other men. There is no other intermediary between God and Man. Christ is the only name and means by which salvation comes.

Chris
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Re: Do we really know who these men are? (Gordon B. Hinckley video)

Post by Chris »

FrankOne wrote: September 15th, 2022, 9:03 pm
Chris wrote: September 15th, 2022, 8:46 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 6th, 2022, 11:30 am After having read and participated in this thread , I honestly cannot understand why people need to have a man to lead them in spiritual affairs. There is only one reason that people defend the leadership of the LDS or ANY church is because they "need" their leader in order to feel better about their lives, and when that leader's authority is threatened or destroyed, the member's faith is crushed to dust.

If there comes an epoch event of biblical proportions and a true end times Prophet stands up to set things in order for the return of Christ, I'll certainly listen with open ears, but if he tells me that we need to go kill every living thing in a city, unborn and born babies etc....and mop up the blood and move into their houses, I'll still walk away as I would have done in the account of Joshua. Yah, I question everything that violates moral law whether they be "Gods" or men.

Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
Well, why stop there. Lets continue with your logic. Why do you need a savior i mean come on give me a break. Why do you need someone to tell you what to do and give you commandments. He never lives up to your expectations right. Who needs a narrow path, with prophets, order, and expectations....

Why not go full libtard spiritualism, denounce all men and all gods. Let universe guide your inklings and lead your path to enlightenment. I mean come on to hell with baptism by proper authority, to hell with temples and priesthood ordinances...... they are all alters of satan and vain leadership that have nothing better to do then committ sin and act like prophets. Right? To hell with all them right and this stupid church joseph established who was a prophet and daniel said would roll forwatd, nut what tge hell do they know. They sure screwed up big time. This is what you guys sound like.

You guys and your bashing of christ anoited and his church knows no bounds.
Christ has done the work to deliver us. We can accept it or deny it. It's up to us as individuals and has nothing to do with men spiritually leading other men. There is no other intermediary between God and Man. Christ is the only name and means by which salvation comes.
Sure so how does one get baptised to enter his kingdom? Christ did say you cant even see heaven without it. Are you saying christ is going to come down from heaven to baptize you? If not arent you going to hell?

Pretty black and white. Was christ wrong?

If not, then who is going to baptize you and why is that okay?

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