The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

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Original_Intent
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The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

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More musings about Zion this morning-
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length* is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed*, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
So, 1500 miles on a side AND 1500 miles tall, and ~ 200+ feet THICK.

Explanation 1: Symbolic language is being used. All of the measurements are a factor of 12, multiplied by 1000 for the dimensions or squared for the thickness. I don't see what the significance of the symbolism would be, and there is emphasis that angel cubits are equal to human cubits. Also, I have seen the maps of the 1500 mile square centered on Independence, MO or thereabouts, and I am inclined to believe this is intended literally.

Explanation 2: It is literal. It is unthinkable that a physical wall would be built that high which would extend well into space. However, I think a force field of some type is entirely likely. I have heard a lot of anecdotal cases of people who have dreamed or envisioned a nuclear attack on Zion, and the nuclear missiles being stopped or disabled by the power of the priesthood. I just Googled, and ICBMs reach a maximum altitude between 500 and 750 miles, so the 1500 mile height makes a lot of sense in that regard.

I wonder if it will be some kind of force field of faith, or if it will be some kind of literal technological force field or field of some kind that would knock out a missile (or a bomber jet for that matter). I tend to believe it would be a literal tech force field of some kind. I think of the earthen barriers thrown up by the Nephites to repel the Lamanites - I see such actions as a exercise of priesthood power - i.e. the priesthood foresaw the need, but almost unimaginable human effort had to go into the preparation. I'm not saying that being in a prayer circle or just raising your arm to the square would do the job if that were God's will. But I don't think we should assume that.

I'd love to hear some scientific minded folks, (paging BroJones!) discuss the feasibility of such a force field. Maybe it wouldn't be up all the time but would just activate and disable a bomber or a bomb/missile when one was detected.

Maybe there are other explanations than the two above, although I think literal/not literal probably covers the binary, but maybe there are some ideas of what a symbolic interpretation might mean? Other ideas on a literal solution?

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nightlight
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by nightlight »

Original_Intent wrote: August 27th, 2022, 11:50 am More musings about Zion this morning-
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length* is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed*, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
So, 1500 miles on a side AND 1500 miles tall, and ~ 200+ feet THICK.

Explanation 1: Symbolic language is being used. All of the measurements are a factor of 12, multiplied by 1000 for the dimensions or squared for the thickness. I don't see what the significance of the symbolism would be, and there is emphasis that angel cubits are equal to human cubits. Also, I have seen the maps of the 1500 mile square centered on Independence, MO or thereabouts, and I am inclined to believe this is intended literally.

Explanation 2: It is literal. It is unthinkable that a physical wall would be built that high which would extend well into space. However, I think a force field of some type is entirely likely. I have heard a lot of anecdotal cases of people who have dreamed or envisioned a nuclear attack on Zion, and the nuclear missiles being stopped or disabled by the power of the priesthood. I just Googled, and ICBMs reach a maximum altitude between 500 and 750 miles, so the 1500 mile height makes a lot of sense in that regard.

I wonder if it will be some kind of force field of faith, or if it will be some kind of literal technological force field or field of some kind that would knock out a missile (or a bomber jet for that matter). I tend to believe it would be a literal tech force field of some kind. I think of the earthen barriers thrown up by the Nephites to repel the Lamanites - I see such actions as a exercise of priesthood power - i.e. the priesthood foresaw the need, but almost unimaginable human effort had to go into the preparation. I'm not saying that being in a prayer circle or just raising your arm to the square would do the job if that were God's will. But I don't think we should assume that.

I'd love to hear some scientific minded folks, (paging BroJones!) discuss the feasibility of such a force field. Maybe it wouldn't be up all the time but would just activate and disable a bomber or a bomb/missile when one was detected.

Maybe there are other explanations than the two above, although I think literal/not literal probably covers the binary, but maybe there are some ideas of what a symbolic interpretation might mean? Other ideas on a literal solution?

I'm under the impression (?)this is the city that descends from heaven to the new earth.

Here's a cool scale

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Original_Intent
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by Original_Intent »

nightlight wrote: August 27th, 2022, 12:07 pm
Original_Intent wrote: August 27th, 2022, 11:50 am More musings about Zion this morning-
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length* is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed*, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
So, 1500 miles on a side AND 1500 miles tall, and ~ 200+ feet THICK.

Explanation 1: Symbolic language is being used. All of the measurements are a factor of 12, multiplied by 1000 for the dimensions or squared for the thickness. I don't see what the significance of the symbolism would be, and there is emphasis that angel cubits are equal to human cubits. Also, I have seen the maps of the 1500 mile square centered on Independence, MO or thereabouts, and I am inclined to believe this is intended literally.

Explanation 2: It is literal. It is unthinkable that a physical wall would be built that high which would extend well into space. However, I think a force field of some type is entirely likely. I have heard a lot of anecdotal cases of people who have dreamed or envisioned a nuclear attack on Zion, and the nuclear missiles being stopped or disabled by the power of the priesthood. I just Googled, and ICBMs reach a maximum altitude between 500 and 750 miles, so the 1500 mile height makes a lot of sense in that regard.

I wonder if it will be some kind of force field of faith, or if it will be some kind of literal technological force field or field of some kind that would knock out a missile (or a bomber jet for that matter). I tend to believe it would be a literal tech force field of some kind. I think of the earthen barriers thrown up by the Nephites to repel the Lamanites - I see such actions as a exercise of priesthood power - i.e. the priesthood foresaw the need, but almost unimaginable human effort had to go into the preparation. I'm not saying that being in a prayer circle or just raising your arm to the square would do the job if that were God's will. But I don't think we should assume that.

I'd love to hear some scientific minded folks, (paging BroJones!) discuss the feasibility of such a force field. Maybe it wouldn't be up all the time but would just activate and disable a bomber or a bomb/missile when one was detected.

Maybe there are other explanations than the two above, although I think literal/not literal probably covers the binary, but maybe there are some ideas of what a symbolic interpretation might mean? Other ideas on a literal solution?

I'm under the impression (?)this is the city that descends from heaven to the new earth.

Here's a cool scale
Ah yes! I see that this is the Jerusalem that descends out of heaven.
Now I am curious about the basis of the 1500 mile squared Zion centered on NW Missouri,,, I know I have seen maps depicting that..

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

nightlight wrote: August 27th, 2022, 12:07 pm
The 38 in the center of 1380 should come as no surprise to those well versed in the vernacular at march8miracle.org. :lol:

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nightlight
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by nightlight »

Original_Intent wrote: August 27th, 2022, 12:15 pm
nightlight wrote: August 27th, 2022, 12:07 pm
Original_Intent wrote: August 27th, 2022, 11:50 am More musings about Zion this morning-
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length* is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed*, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
So, 1500 miles on a side AND 1500 miles tall, and ~ 200+ feet THICK.

Explanation 1: Symbolic language is being used. All of the measurements are a factor of 12, multiplied by 1000 for the dimensions or squared for the thickness. I don't see what the significance of the symbolism would be, and there is emphasis that angel cubits are equal to human cubits. Also, I have seen the maps of the 1500 mile square centered on Independence, MO or thereabouts, and I am inclined to believe this is intended literally.

Explanation 2: It is literal. It is unthinkable that a physical wall would be built that high which would extend well into space. However, I think a force field of some type is entirely likely. I have heard a lot of anecdotal cases of people who have dreamed or envisioned a nuclear attack on Zion, and the nuclear missiles being stopped or disabled by the power of the priesthood. I just Googled, and ICBMs reach a maximum altitude between 500 and 750 miles, so the 1500 mile height makes a lot of sense in that regard.

I wonder if it will be some kind of force field of faith, or if it will be some kind of literal technological force field or field of some kind that would knock out a missile (or a bomber jet for that matter). I tend to believe it would be a literal tech force field of some kind. I think of the earthen barriers thrown up by the Nephites to repel the Lamanites - I see such actions as a exercise of priesthood power - i.e. the priesthood foresaw the need, but almost unimaginable human effort had to go into the preparation. I'm not saying that being in a prayer circle or just raising your arm to the square would do the job if that were God's will. But I don't think we should assume that.

I'd love to hear some scientific minded folks, (paging BroJones!) discuss the feasibility of such a force field. Maybe it wouldn't be up all the time but would just activate and disable a bomber or a bomb/missile when one was detected.

Maybe there are other explanations than the two above, although I think literal/not literal probably covers the binary, but maybe there are some ideas of what a symbolic interpretation might mean? Other ideas on a literal solution?

I'm under the impression (?)this is the city that descends from heaven to the new earth.

Here's a cool scale
Ah yes! I see that this is the Jerusalem that descends out of heaven.
Now I am curious about the basis of the 1500 mile squared Zion centered on NW Missouri,,, I know I have seen maps depicting that..
Was it the map js made with 12 dome temples?

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Original_Intent
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by Original_Intent »

nightlight wrote: August 27th, 2022, 3:02 pm
Original_Intent wrote: August 27th, 2022, 12:15 pm
nightlight wrote: August 27th, 2022, 12:07 pm
Original_Intent wrote: August 27th, 2022, 11:50 am More musings about Zion this morning-


So, 1500 miles on a side AND 1500 miles tall, and ~ 200+ feet THICK.

Explanation 1: Symbolic language is being used. All of the measurements are a factor of 12, multiplied by 1000 for the dimensions or squared for the thickness. I don't see what the significance of the symbolism would be, and there is emphasis that angel cubits are equal to human cubits. Also, I have seen the maps of the 1500 mile square centered on Independence, MO or thereabouts, and I am inclined to believe this is intended literally.

Explanation 2: It is literal. It is unthinkable that a physical wall would be built that high which would extend well into space. However, I think a force field of some type is entirely likely. I have heard a lot of anecdotal cases of people who have dreamed or envisioned a nuclear attack on Zion, and the nuclear missiles being stopped or disabled by the power of the priesthood. I just Googled, and ICBMs reach a maximum altitude between 500 and 750 miles, so the 1500 mile height makes a lot of sense in that regard.

I wonder if it will be some kind of force field of faith, or if it will be some kind of literal technological force field or field of some kind that would knock out a missile (or a bomber jet for that matter). I tend to believe it would be a literal tech force field of some kind. I think of the earthen barriers thrown up by the Nephites to repel the Lamanites - I see such actions as a exercise of priesthood power - i.e. the priesthood foresaw the need, but almost unimaginable human effort had to go into the preparation. I'm not saying that being in a prayer circle or just raising your arm to the square would do the job if that were God's will. But I don't think we should assume that.

I'd love to hear some scientific minded folks, (paging BroJones!) discuss the feasibility of such a force field. Maybe it wouldn't be up all the time but would just activate and disable a bomber or a bomb/missile when one was detected.

Maybe there are other explanations than the two above, although I think literal/not literal probably covers the binary, but maybe there are some ideas of what a symbolic interpretation might mean? Other ideas on a literal solution?

I'm under the impression (?)this is the city that descends from heaven to the new earth.

Here's a cool scale
Ah yes! I see that this is the Jerusalem that descends out of heaven.
Now I am curious about the basis of the 1500 mile squared Zion centered on NW Missouri,,, I know I have seen maps depicting that..
Was it the map js made with 12 dome temples?
I don't recall.

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Niemand
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by Niemand »

Original_Intent wrote: August 27th, 2022, 11:50 am More musings about Zion this morning-
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length* is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed*, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
So, 1500 miles on a side AND 1500 miles tall, and ~ 200+ feet THICK.

Explanation 1: Symbolic language is being used. All of the measurements are a factor of 12, multiplied by 1000 for the dimensions or squared for the thickness. I don't see what the significance of the symbolism would be, and there is emphasis that angel cubits are equal to human cubits. Also, I have seen the maps of the 1500 mile square centered on Independence, MO or thereabouts, and I am inclined to believe this is intended literally.

Explanation 2: It is literal. It is unthinkable that a physical wall would be built that high which would extend well into space. However, I think a force field of some type is entirely likely. I have heard a lot of anecdotal cases of people who have dreamed or envisioned a nuclear attack on Zion, and the nuclear missiles being stopped or disabled by the power of the priesthood. I just Googled, and ICBMs reach a maximum altitude between 500 and 750 miles, so the 1500 mile height makes a lot of sense in that regard.

I wonder if it will be some kind of force field of faith, or if it will be some kind of literal technological force field or field of some kind that would knock out a missile (or a bomber jet for that matter). I tend to believe it would be a literal tech force field of some kind. I think of the earthen barriers thrown up by the Nephites to repel the Lamanites - I see such actions as a exercise of priesthood power - i.e. the priesthood foresaw the need, but almost unimaginable human effort had to go into the preparation. I'm not saying that being in a prayer circle or just raising your arm to the square would do the job if that were God's will. But I don't think we should assume that.

I'd love to hear some scientific minded folks, (paging BroJones!) discuss the feasibility of such a force field. Maybe it wouldn't be up all the time but would just activate and disable a bomber or a bomb/missile when one was detected.

Maybe there are other explanations than the two above, although I think literal/not literal probably covers the binary, but maybe there are some ideas of what a symbolic interpretation might mean? Other ideas on a literal solution?
Explanation 3 - a mistransciption or mistranslation.

Explanation 4 - a reach, but perhaps the wall also extends underground so the height includes how far underground they go. There have been rumours of powerful drilling machines for a while, beside the more obvious ones that are openly used. I doubt a any of them can go a hundred miles underground.

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nightlight
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by nightlight »

@Luke

Can you dig up this map?

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John Tavner
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by John Tavner »

Perhaps it means it is so large and reaches to teh heavens in such a way that the city represents the Kingdom of God on Earth as it is in Heaven. The connection is solid - there would be no difference between teh Kingdom on Earth like the Kingdom in heaven becaus ethey are so interconnected.

Bronco73idi
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by Bronco73idi »

It fits the giant petrified stump theory

What if this earth is a satellite of a bigger planet, where giant trees fit and this building looks to be at home and celestial beings are what we call giants.

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Subcomandante
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by Subcomandante »

I do not think that the dimensions are literal, and I base it off of the Angels of the Prairies vision by Parley P. Pratt.

But considering the dimensions that the apostle uses, it would be very similar in area.

http://jared.pratt-family.org/parley_hi ... iries.html

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TheDuke
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by TheDuke »

what is the scripture being quoted? i only see verse numbers.

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TheDuke
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by TheDuke »

So the Pratt revelation was in 1828 and 100 years later after all the war and rebuilding was 1928.... Didn't seem to happen as foretold........... my busted?

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cyclOps
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by cyclOps »

Where does it say the wall is that high?

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nightlight
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by nightlight »

Subcomandante wrote: August 27th, 2022, 7:20 pm I do not think that the dimensions are literal, and I base it off of the Angels of the Prairies vision by Parley P. Pratt.

But considering the dimensions that the apostle uses, it would be very similar in area.

http://jared.pratt-family.org/parley_hi ... iries.html
"I don't think it's literal", is the modern educated Christians go to answer

Don't get me wrong, I understand the view...stuff like that that sounds too fantastical.

But we believe a resurrected and immortal man will bring everyone back to life with new bodies, will make the earth new, etc........just by saying some words

What scale is too farfetched when claiming these claims?

Lynn
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by Lynn »

I suspect it as literal in a sense or code.

To give an example ... Many believe the Copper Scroll of the Dead Sea Scrolls to be a treasure map of hidden antiquities & riches. However, one researcher found that the descriptions given matched the visual shape of the original Enochian alphabet glyphs that were brought forth back in the 1500s by Dr. John Dee & his scryer in their contact with angels. In today's times, the glyphs have been slightly modernized. So, could it be that the treasure is actually the Enochian or Angelic language.

Joseph Smith has at least three Enochian words recorded. These 3 (actually 4) are as follows: ZOMAS (Zomas) which he refers to as the original language for Zion. It is a composite word- ZOM & AS. Combined, this means something akin to "Thou shalt know thyself". He shortens it to ZOM (which means "self-knowledge") when he engraved it on a sapling tree. Reversed, it is MOZ which means "joy". Both are Enochian word. Then there is NAL-GAH (Nal-Gah) which means "personal spirit" or "personal angel". Then there is yet another angel he referenced- Pah-Li-Pah or PAH-LI-PAH or PA-LI-PA which I am still trying to decipher.

Another good example is found in the movie "Contact" with Jodie Foster. The text & drawings were actually in 3-D, to which we are not accustomed to. In other words, markers indicated fold-points, as if some special geometry is being utilized.

There is also a prophecy by one person in RLDS-CoC back in 1885 that was shown & told after wondering & inquiring about Zion. He saw a protective "narrow and very bright red ring, which enclosed Independence (Missouri) and a portion of the surrounding country, the center of which seemed to be a little southwest of where I was standing". The voice was asked if he saw the ring. He replied, Yes. Then he was told that the ground inside of the ring had been sanctified. No person could live inside this ring except those who kept the celestial law. "All written law ceases on the inside of this ring, but on the outside it shall continue as it is", said the voice. Later he (the person having the vision) shares that he believed "the land of Zion would comprise a great portion of America". And continues, "If this is all of the land of Zion, it is a failure, as I understand it". The voice explains that "The borders of Zion shall be enlarged". In other words, the protective ring, aka Zion, will grow as time goes on, as more people are sanctified.

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mes5464
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by mes5464 »

new-jerusalem-8.png
new-jerusalem-8.png (963.83 KiB) Viewed 294 times
Taken from https://www.godreports.com/

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Niemand
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by Niemand »

mes5464 wrote: August 28th, 2022, 6:15 am new-jerusalem-8.png

Taken from https://www.godreports.com/

Looks like it would include Chicago and Milwaukee then and a portion of northern Mexico. I'm not sure how the sun's supposed to shine over a lot of it, unless it supplies its own light.
Last edited by Niemand on August 28th, 2022, 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

mes5464 wrote: August 28th, 2022, 6:15 am new-jerusalem-8.png

Taken from https://www.godreports.com/
Soon I will reside within the golden boundary. :lol:

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h_p
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by h_p »

For these measurements to be literal, here's the height of the walls drawn to scale with the earth. The International Space Station orbits at about 211 miles, so if you were to stand on the top of this thing, you wouldn't even be able to see it below you without a telescope--it would be 6.5 times further away from you than if you were standing on the ground looking up. The top of the wall would be moving through space 400 mph faster than the bottom.

It's impossible to draw Mt. Everest to compare it with here, because its height is less than half the width of the line I used to draw the earth.

If you wanted everything to be square, you'd have to dig 70 miles down at the thickest part (that's the red line). The earth's crust is only 43 miles thick at most, so you would have dug a hole hundreds of miles wide all the way down to the mantle, and created the biggest volcano on earth. The deepest hole ever dug is only about 8 miles. The Marianas Trench is only about 7 miles deep. I guess you'd need angels to hold it up to keep the whole contraption from sinking all the way to the earth's core.

You're basically trying to build something that's 3/4 the size of the Moon on earth.

Personally, I think the measurements are beyond ludicrous, but what do I know. It's in the Bible, so it couldn't possibly be wrong. To me, it's more reasonable to imagine translated beings colonizing the Moon or Venus, than building something like this.
zion walls.gif
zion walls.gif (14.21 KiB) Viewed 250 times

p8riot
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Re: The walls of Zion - 1500 miles high?

Post by p8riot »

Or the City of Enoch (original Zion) returns from the heavens and lands at New Jerusalem (new Zion) and all saints are united in the city of God during the millenium.

Moses 7:62 And righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.

63 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other;

64 And there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion, which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; and for the space of a thousand years the earth shall rest.

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