This is a state church

[Pazooka]

Oh my garsh, this was a great vid from the thread that spontaneously combusted.

Yes, we are a state sponsored church. And the reason we don’t endorse (ie discuss) political candidates, issues and stuff at church isn’t because we’re above partisan politics (nice one, Pres Faust) - - it’s because we’re beneath them and our masters won’t let us do that because they have us by the cajones (I mean…bank deposit slips).

Flat earth brother, tell it like it is.

[Chip]

That was a kick-arse presentation. Looks like I am on the right track. Feels good, too.

[silverado]

Oh my garsh, this was a great vid from the thread that spontaneously combusted.

Yes, we are a state sponsored church. And the reason we don’t endorse (ie discuss) political candidates, issues and stuff at church isn’t because we’re above partisan politics (nice one, Pres Faust) - - it’s because we’re beneath them and our masters won’t let us do that because they have us by the cajones (I mean…bank deposit slips).

Flat earth brother, tell it like it is.

Minute 3:18. They "have become mouthpieces for government agendas."

What!?...I thought they were suppose to be mouthpieces for the Lord.

[Niemand]

I remember some journalists hung around the DC temple some years ago before Mitt Romney's presidential run, and were surprised to learn many TR holding members weren't blind Romney supporters. I know some people here are probably thinking that's a good thing, that Romney is a RINO etc, but one member made a much simpler point, that if Romney became POTUS and became involved in scandal or questionable policies then that would reflect badly on church members.

I don't think that's a bad argument at all. It's something we need to be careful with. Politicians will let us down, not just because of scheming but because they're human.

[Chip]

I remember some journalists hung around the DC temple some years ago before Mitt Romney's presidential run, and were surprised to learn many TR holding members weren't blind Romney supporters. I know some people here are probably thinking that's a good thing, that Romney is a RINO etc, but one member made a much simpler point, that if Romney became POTUS and became involved in scandal or questionable policies then that would reflect badly on church members.

I don't think that's a bad argument at all. It's something we need to be careful with. Politicians will let us down, not just because of scheming but because they're human.

Potential politician scandals aside, who wants to join a church that's tied up with the New World Order? That's a real scandal that already exists.

[Niemand]

I remember some journalists hung around the DC temple some years ago before Mitt Romney's presidential run, and were surprised to learn many TR holding members weren't blind Romney supporters. I know some people here are probably thinking that's a good thing, that Romney is a RINO etc, but one member made a much simpler point, that if Romney became POTUS and became involved in scandal or questionable policies then that would reflect badly on church members.

I don't think that's a bad argument at all. It's something we need to be careful with. Politicians will let us down, not just because of scheming but because they're human.

Potential politician scandals aside, who wants to join a church that's tied up with the new world order? That's a real problem that already exists. Quite the scandal.

I agree with you, but it was less obvious when Romney ran for president.

I'm in a quandary because I believe people need Christ these days, but am not willing to bring them to our church. Our baptismal rate has fallen through the floor BTW. I wonder if the Spirit has something to do with it.

[Chip]

I remember some journalists hung around the DC temple some years ago before Mitt Romney's presidential run, and were surprised to learn many TR holding members weren't blind Romney supporters. I know some people here are probably thinking that's a good thing, that Romney is a RINO etc, but one member made a much simpler point, that if Romney became POTUS and became involved in scandal or questionable policies then that would reflect badly on church members.

I don't think that's a bad argument at all. It's something we need to be careful with. Politicians will let us down, not just because of scheming but because they're human.

Potential politician scandals aside, who wants to join a church that's tied up with the new world order? That's a real problem that already exists. Quite the scandal.

I agree with you, but it was less obvious when Romney ran for president.

I'm in a quandary because I believe people need Christ these days, but am not willing to bring them to our church. Our baptismal rate has fallen through the floor BTW. I wonder if the Spirit has something to do with it.

I'm sure it does. I am just waiting on the Lord, at this point. There are plenty of decent churches out there that are non-denominational.

[Subcomandante]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

[Niemand]

I'm sure it does. I am just waiting on the Lord, at this point. There are plenty of decent churches out there that are non-denominational.

I had a mind to return to my Protestant roots in the darker times of late 2020 and 2021, especially if I ended up in an excom situation. I mentioned this to Robin Hood and Luke when I met them. We don't have smaller Mormon groups nearby, so that's not an option. This is mainly down to the organisation not my relationship to the Restoration. There are a lot of things I value in Mormonism including the BoM itself, but it is hard for me to tolerate an organisation which kowtows like ours does.

If I do end up in some Protestant group, it will likely be a non-mainstream one. The big Proddy churches have sold out or gone in the wrong direction. They're often as bad, if not worse, than the LDS. Roman Catholic and Orthodox are out. (I've attended their services before, but that's not really for me. Beautiful music, bsd theology.)

[BroJones]

I remember some journalists hung around the DC temple some years ago before Mitt Romney's presidential run, and were surprised to learn many TR holding members weren't blind Romney supporters. I know some people here are probably thinking that's a good thing, that Romney is a RINO etc, but one member made a much simpler point, that if Romney became POTUS and became involved in scandal or questionable policies then that would reflect badly on church members.

I don't think that's a bad argument at all. It's something we need to be careful with. Politicians will let us down, not just because of scheming but because they're human.

Is it a ward thing? In my ward near AoA, very few Romney supporters. We do talk about secret combinations here.

[Niemand]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

No, they don't have to be registered. I've been to house churches before Mormonism. Two or three in someone's home, that's it. It works like that in many Muslim countries and parts of China.

The registration is for tax purposes.

[Niemand]

I remember some journalists hung around the DC temple some years ago before Mitt Romney's presidential run, and were surprised to learn many TR holding members weren't blind Romney supporters. I know some people here are probably thinking that's a good thing, that Romney is a RINO etc, but one member made a much simpler point, that if Romney became POTUS and became involved in scandal or questionable policies then that would reflect badly on church members.

I don't think that's a bad argument at all. It's something we need to be careful with. Politicians will let us down, not just because of scheming but because they're human.

Is it a ward thing? In my ward near AoA, very few Romney supporters. We do talk about secret combinations here.

The folk questioned by the journalists were outside the Washington DC temple. I'm relieved in retrospect that most of them gave sensible answers, and weren't just blind Republicans or Romney supporters. It was also a reminder that church members aren't robots.

Not much discussion in my ward since I'm in another country. One of my friends who worked in a bank was given abuse by some colleagues about his underwear. Some trashy newspaper printed pixtures of garments in a disgusting piece about Romney and Mormonism.

[FreedomJess]

This video is so good! Maybe a 5th Sunday meeting could show it... but that might be rewarded with disciplinary action.

When I tell members that we need to abandon our 501c3 status, they almost always look at me like I’m crazy.
1. They (like the video points out) do not want to miss out on their own personal tax write off.
2. Many say: “but the church wouldn’t be able to have all the property they have... the churches, the temples, etc.”
3. So many believe that the church must go along to get along with the government. That if we just give in, “wE cAn CoNtInUe sENDiNg oUr mISsiOnArIeS oUt.”

That’s my favorite one. It’s the same mental gymnastics heard during The Great Lie of 2020 to explain why the church did what it did.

Where’s the line in the sand for the brainwashed members? The church can do whatever it wants and members will continue to make excuses for them.

This video actually got me choked up at the end:

“Flee Babylon. Separate yourself from all compromising organizations. Stand for truth, stand for Yahuwah today.”

I’ve done exactly this... I’ve separated myself from this compromised organization. I live in a 99% active LDS neighborhood. We were as true blue as they come. My eyes were opened. It’s been hard socially. But I have to be true to what I know is right. I am in a small niche... the doctrine is not the issue. But the corporation is the issue. And I have never felt more free or happy. My spirituality is not stifled. And I can see so clearly now.
Some would say “you’ve lost your way.” (I used to think that about people too.)
To that I say:

“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”

Once one emerges out from under the suffocation of the culture, the family/friend disappointment, the layers of expectations from the institution... and just embraces the raw gospel of Christlike love... it’s amazing how free the mind becomes and the love for others of all walks of life just flows.

[Subcomandante]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

No, they don't have to be registered. I've been to house churches before Mormonism. Two or three in someone's home, that's it. It works like that in many Muslim countries and parts of China.

The registration is for tax purposes.

What happens in China and these other countries, including the Muslim ones, if they are caught unregistered?

The Church will NEVER go in through the back door or through a window. They seek to enter everywhere legally and to follow the legal rules.

[Niemand]

What happens in China and these other countries, including the Muslim ones, if they are caught unregistered?

They are persecuted, but so are many people in registered churches so it's not a guarantee. Many of the two million Uighurs in concentration camps will be registered Muslims.

The Church will NEVER go in through the back door or through a window. They seek to enter everywhere legally and to follow the legal rules.

If Protestants had taken that attitude, Mormonism would never have existed. No Luther, no Lollards and no Pilgrim Fathers.

Religious freedom was a major factor in the independence struggle of the USA.

[Fred]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

That is probably the reason God let him be killed. He sold out to satan and was no more any benefit to mankind or God.

[Atrasado]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

That is probably the reason God let him be killed. He sold out to satan and was no more any benefit to mankind or God.

This is not what it seemed. There's a thread somewhere on here with some good information on the different types of religious societies. Joseph Smith did not register the Church such that it was under government dominion. In fact, if I remember correctly there is no record of him ever registering the Church in New York.

Also, Joseph Smith didn't sell out to the Devil and that will soon be apparent to all.

[Artaxerxes]

This video is so good! Maybe a 5th Sunday meeting could show it... but that might be rewarded with disciplinary action.

When I tell members that we need to abandon our 501c3 status, they almost always look at me like I’m crazy.
1. They (like the video points out) do not want to miss out on their own personal tax write off.
2. Many say: “but the church wouldn’t be able to have all the property they have... the churches, the temples, etc.”
3. So many believe that the church must go along to get along with the government. That if we just give in, “wE cAn CoNtInUe sENDiNg oUr mISsiOnArIeS oUt.”

That’s my favorite one. It’s the same mental gymnastics heard during The Great Lie of 2020 to explain why the church did what it did.

Where’s the line in the sand for the brainwashed members? The church can do whatever it wants and members will continue to make excuses for them.

This video actually got me choked up at the end:

“Flee Babylon. Separate yourself from all compromising organizations. Stand for truth, stand for Yahuwah today.”

I’ve done exactly this... I’ve separated myself from this compromised organization. I live in a 99% active LDS neighborhood. We were as true blue as they come. My eyes were opened. It’s been hard socially. But I have to be true to what I know is right. I am in a small niche... the doctrine is not the issue. But the corporation is the issue. And I have never felt more free or happy. My spirituality is not stifled. And I can see so clearly now.
Some would say “you’ve lost your way.” (I used to think that about people too.)
To that I say:

“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”

Once one emerges out from under the suffocation of the culture, the family/friend disappointment, the layers of expectations from the institution... and just embraces the raw gospel of Christlike love... it’s amazing how free the mind becomes and the love for others of all walks of life just flows.

Corporations are discussed in the D&C. Was God for or against?

[Subcomandante]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

That is probably the reason God let him be killed. He sold out to satan and was no more any benefit to mankind or God.

“The rise of the Church of Christ in these last days, being one thousand eight hundred and thirty years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, it being regularly organized and established agreeable to the laws of our country, by the will and commandments of God, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April.”

Satanic: (General definition): That which is considered to be evil by society at large, inspired of the devil and not of God.

Satanic: (Fred definition): Anything that does not match 100 percent in lockstep with Fred's viewpoint.

[Fred]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

That is probably the reason God let him be killed. He sold out to satan and was no more any benefit to mankind or God.

This is not what it seemed. There's a thread somewhere on here with some good information on the different types of religious societies. Joseph Smith did not register the Church such that it was under government dominion. In fact, if I remember correctly there is no record of him ever registering the Church in New York.

Also, Joseph Smith didn't sell out to the Devil and that will soon be apparent to all.

I have no bad feelings toward Joseph Smith. When Jesus was preaching, He did not register to be subservient to any government entity. He did say to give Caesar what is Caesar's.

The subcommidante has suggested many times that God can not run a church without being subservient to governments, to which I call BS. By definition, the Church of Jesus Christ is above any earthly government.

Many people have posted on here that the church has to kiss butt at WEF, UN, etc., in order to remain 501 c 3 and not have the government shut them down or confiscate things. I call BS again. This is not 1830 and no government is going to declare war on a church. Especially one with 16 million world wide members.

I do not believe that the church was ever supposed to be a state church, which it clearly is today.

[Artaxerxes]

Pretty much every religious organization that exists today has to be registered with national and local government officials. Without those registrations, the Church would not be able to fulfill its mission.

It's been registered since 06 April 1830 with Joseph Smith doing the registration with the state of New York.

That is probably the reason God let him be killed. He sold out to satan and was no more any benefit to mankind or God.

This is not what it seemed. There's a thread somewhere on here with some good information on the different types of religious societies. Joseph Smith did not register the Church such that it was under government dominion. In fact, if I remember correctly there is no record of him ever registering the Church in New York.

Also, Joseph Smith didn't sell out to the Devil and that will soon be apparent to all.

I have no bad feelings toward Joseph Smith. When Jesus was preaching, He did not register to be subservient to any government entity. He did say to give Caesar what is Caesar's.

The subcommidante has suggested many times that God can not run a church without being subservient to governments, to which I call BS. By definition, the Church of Jesus Christ is above any earthly government.

Many people have posted on here that the church has to kiss butt at WEF, UN, etc., in order to remain 501 c 3 and not have the government shut them down or confiscate things. I call BS again. This is not 1830 and no government is going to declare war on a church. Especially one with 16 million world wide members.

I do not believe that the church was ever supposed to be a state church, which it clearly is today.

Governments go to war with religions all the time. Europeans severally strict a lot of things related to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Fred]

That is probably the reason God let him be killed. He sold out to satan and was no more any benefit to mankind or God.

This is not what it seemed. There's a thread somewhere on here with some good information on the different types of religious societies. Joseph Smith did not register the Church such that it was under government dominion. In fact, if I remember correctly there is no record of him ever registering the Church in New York.

Also, Joseph Smith didn't sell out to the Devil and that will soon be apparent to all.

I have no bad feelings toward Joseph Smith. When Jesus was preaching, He did not register to be subservient to any government entity. He did say to give Caesar what is Caesar's.

The subcommidante has suggested many times that God can not run a church without being subservient to governments, to which I call BS. By definition, the Church of Jesus Christ is above any earthly government.

Many people have posted on here that the church has to kiss butt at WEF, UN, etc., in order to remain 501 c 3 and not have the government shut them down or confiscate things. I call BS again. This is not 1830 and no government is going to declare war on a church. Especially one with 16 million world wide members.

I do not believe that the church was ever supposed to be a state church, which it clearly is today.

Governments go to war with religions all the time. Europeans severally strict a lot of things related to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

You are being silly. The government already has a black eye from the extermination days. I figured you to be the last person that would say the church is not actually the Church of Jesus Christ and so has no protection.

[Artaxerxes]

This is not what it seemed. There's a thread somewhere on here with some good information on the different types of religious societies. Joseph Smith did not register the Church such that it was under government dominion. In fact, if I remember correctly there is no record of him ever registering the Church in New York.

Also, Joseph Smith didn't sell out to the Devil and that will soon be apparent to all.

I have no bad feelings toward Joseph Smith. When Jesus was preaching, He did not register to be subservient to any government entity. He did say to give Caesar what is Caesar's.

The subcommidante has suggested many times that God can not run a church without being subservient to governments, to which I call BS. By definition, the Church of Jesus Christ is above any earthly government.

Many people have posted on here that the church has to kiss butt at WEF, UN, etc., in order to remain 501 c 3 and not have the government shut them down or confiscate things. I call BS again. This is not 1830 and no government is going to declare war on a church. Especially one with 16 million world wide members.

I do not believe that the church was ever supposed to be a state church, which it clearly is today.

Governments go to war with religions all the time. Europeans severally strict a lot of things related to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

You are being silly. The government already has a black eye from the extermination days. I figured you to be the last person that would say the church is not actually the Church of Jesus Christ and so has no protection.

That's quite the change in arguments you've got there. You position was that the government doesn't go after churches anymore. That's false. You can try to save face all you want, but your post just wasn't true

[Peeps]

Abraham did not have an organized church. Neither did Joseph when he was sold into Egypt. A church is not always necessary for salvation, but Jesus Christ certainly is. Perhaps it has now become the time for people to cultivate a one on One relationship with their Savior.

[Pazooka]

Abraham did not have an organized church. Neither did Joseph when he was sold into Egypt. A church is not always necessary for salvation, but Jesus Christ certainly is. Perhaps it has now become the time for people to cultivate a one on One relationship with their Savior.

Abraham did not have an organized church because he had a family - - a line of patriarchs - - some still available to him on the earth. The tribes of Israel did not have a church because they were a family. Then they were scattered and the process of putting them back together again has us using the name “church” based on medieval Greek kyriakon dōma (“the Lord’s house”) - - which is another reference to family. Once you establish your relationship with the Savior you are made obliged to serve His family, I thought - - which is your family too. Them without us cannot be made perfect and vice versa.