Snuffer and Horning discuss Plural Marriage @Short Creek

[investigator]

Live Stream… https://youtu.be/J5H_bBT_vaA

[Luke]

Unfortunately the Short Creek people are now so anti-polygamy that there’s a chance that they might buy into this lie…

[BuriedTartaria]

I wanted to attend this but wasn't able to. I was going to make a thread about it and see if anyone was interested in saying hi if others were going to attend. But I have since decided to try and stay away from being quick to voice my thoughts on the topic of polygamy. I've never been baptized into the covenant he says the Lord is offering (I am kind of thinking about doing it though, it's been on my mind for a year or so)but I sort of believe Denver's claims. I've been challenged by many of my views clashing with Denver's views but despite disagreeing, I press forward reading and listening to his message.

He isn't someone I enjoy listening to because confirmation bias feels good to the mind. I care deeply about animals and participate in some community things to try and help stray cats and dogs. Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future (and some other Mormon break-offs believe this too, it's not just Denver). I trust Denver when he says what will be called for by the limited practice of it returning will be sufficiently explained and understood. I eat meat (though I try to follow Joseph's counsel to do so sparingly, I absolutely do NOT desire or forbid anyone from eating meat, I understand that is a part of the measure of certain animals' existence) from animals I'm not bringing the killing blow to. I'm being a bit hypocritical if I can't at least hear him out on this matter. God had to sacrifice his beloved son. I get the concept of us not being good enough to escape having to process and live a type of that sacrifice. Denver's message about the peace the animal kingdom will reach with humans in a Zion community is beautiful (I think it's in his *"Civilization" talk). I believe Denver cares for animals and I'm not trying to frame him poorly on this topic.

The idea that multiple cycles of creation occur and these cycles give us opportunities to be added upon (and the implication is that we experience more than one life but never on the same earth or the same cycle of creation, so it isn't a concept like reincarnation or multiple mortal probations on the same earth) was very hard for me to come to grips with. It hit me hard upon first hearing it because I could see that being true and it shattered a major belief I had never thought could be wrong before (that we only live once). I've since come to think this idea may be true.

And on Joseph, I was firmly aligned with David Whitmer's interpretation of Joseph. The fallen prophet theory. Denver disagrees with this theory.

So I've had a lot of my key views challenged by what Snuffer teaches. I didn't get into reading his material because I agree with his teachings or the majority of his teachings. I find him compelling and couldn't/can't resist hearing him teach.

I think he's a brave person. I'm not 100% a believer but I like him and I sort of believe him.


You know what? Maybe it's time for me to get baptized. It's been almost 4 years now of reading his stuff and I've gone from thinking his story is the dumbest thing in the world, to feeling empathy for him, to sort of believing him, to completely stepping away, to going back to reading his stuff and really believing he just might be a messenger of the Lord.


*Denver is right that a new society/civilization, a new way of life, must come. We need a refreshing. We're so far gone.

Under the peaceful guidance of a kindly shepherd, the wolf and the lamb could learn to
lie down together. Lions have been domesticated, as have bears. When Adam was given
dominion over the earth, all the animals that came to him for naming dwelt together
peacefully. Why do we assume nature is violent? Why regard it as “red of tooth and claw?”

The scriptures speak of an idyllic time in the beginning when man and nature were
entirely at peace with one another. The scriptures also foretell of a coming idyllic age when
that peace is restored again. Why do we accept these bookends as true without ever
considering the role of man in destroying the original peace? Why do we assume we have no
obligation imposed on us to reform creation back to the original? The prophecy of Isaiah is
not magic imposed by God upon a reluctant creation. It will require shepherds to care for
the creation.

Who are “they” in this passage: “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy
mountain?”
And why is the passage, “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain”
followed by the statement, “for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the
waters cover the sea?”

I love Denver Snuffer. People can look down on me, find what I have to say to be less in value due to that, make fun of me and hate me. My mind has been expanded and I have been fed spiritually far more from a few years of reading his writings than from 25 years worth of listening to current general conference talks and reading backlog general conference talks. He has talked a few times about how the Book of Mormon really comes to life with King Benjamin in the Book of Mosiah after a lot of minimal entries from a number of prophets on the small plates leading up to that moment. I felt that way, minimal things to say from people who told me they were my shepherd and who I had committed to allow be my shepherd. I felt I was finding less in messages given by them. Then I stumble on this guy and I think he's insane and I can't believe anyone believes his story. Then I read out of curiosity. And I start to learn and simply find his writings to be compelling fruit that has given me something to consider in evaluating his otherworldly claims. Just as I had fruit for judging Joseph Smith's claims but didn't have for claims on people beyond Joseph Smith.

I can also warn you that all the churches of Mormonism, from the LDS to the
Community of Christ, to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints, and all the offshoots, including the pretenders who now seek to get a
following by their pretended enlightenment; all of them are working at cross
purposes to what the Lord is doing. If they, or you, want to please the Lord you will
assist the labor we are performing. None else, and no-one else, are doing the Lord’s
work, vindicating His covenants, fulfilling His promises, and laboring alongside Him.
We have a covenant from Him, given in 2017 that promises us His protecting hand.
If you follow Christ as Lord, then you will support our work: for it is His work.

That's my GOAT Mormon figure. I think it's time for me to accept the covenant.

[creator]

I know of several people that re-committed and covenanted with Christ, and were re-baptized, without it being a Snuffer or Davis baptism. FWIW. You can approach Christ directly, or... let Moses go up the Mountain on your behalf. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Wolfwoman]

I wanted to attend this but wasn't able to. I was going to make a thread about it and see if anyone was interested in saying hi if others were going to attend. But I have since decided to try and stay away from being quick to voice my thoughts on the topic of polygamy. I've never been baptized into the covenant he says the Lord is offering (I am kind of thinking about doing it though, it's been on my mind for a year or so)but I sort of believe Denver's claims. I've been challenged by many of my views clashing with Denver's views but despite disagreeing, I press forward reading and listening to his message.

He isn't someone I enjoy listening to because confirmation bias feels good to the mind. I care deeply about animals and participate in some community things to try and help stray cats and dogs. Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future (and some other Mormon break-offs believe this too, it's not just Denver). I trust Denver when he says what will be called for by the limited practice of it returning will be sufficiently explained and understood. I eat meat (though I try to follow Joseph's counsel to do so sparingly, I absolutely do NOT desire or forbid anyone from eating meat, I understand that is a part of the measure of certain animals' existence) from animals I'm not bringing the killing blow to. I'm being a bit hypocritical if I can't at least hear him out on this matter. God had to sacrifice his beloved son. I get the concept of us not being good enough to escape having to process and live a type of that sacrifice. Denver's message about the peace the animal kingdom will reach with humans in a Zion community is beautiful (I think it's in his *"Civilization" talk). I believe Denver cares for animals and I'm not trying to frame him poorly on this topic.

The idea that multiple cycles of creation occur and these cycles give us opportunities to be added upon (and the implication is that we experience more than one life but never on the same earth or the same cycle of creation, so it isn't a concept like reincarnation or multiple mortal probations on the same earth) was very hard for me to come to grips with. It hit me hard upon first hearing it because I could see that being true and it shattered a major belief I had never thought could be wrong before (that we only live once). I've since come to think this idea may be true.

And on Joseph, I was firmly aligned with David Whitmer's interpretation of Joseph. The fallen prophet theory. Denver disagrees with this theory.

So I've had a lot of my key views challenged by what Snuffer teaches. I didn't get into reading his material because I agree with his teachings or the majority of his teachings. I find him compelling and couldn't/can't resist hearing him teach.

I think he's a brave person. I'm not 100% a believer but I like him and I sort of believe him.


You know what? Maybe it's time for me to get baptized. It's been almost 4 years now of reading his stuff and I've gone from thinking his story is the dumbest thing in the world, to feeling empathy for him, to sort of believing him, to completely stepping away, to going back to reading his stuff and really believing he just might be a messenger of the Lord.


*Denver is right that a new society/civilization, a new way of life, must come. We need a refreshing. We're so far gone.

Under the peaceful guidance of a kindly shepherd, the wolf and the lamb could learn to
lie down together. Lions have been domesticated, as have bears. When Adam was given
dominion over the earth, all the animals that came to him for naming dwelt together
peacefully. Why do we assume nature is violent? Why regard it as “red of tooth and claw?”

The scriptures speak of an idyllic time in the beginning when man and nature were
entirely at peace with one another. The scriptures also foretell of a coming idyllic age when
that peace is restored again. Why do we accept these bookends as true without ever
considering the role of man in destroying the original peace? Why do we assume we have no
obligation imposed on us to reform creation back to the original? The prophecy of Isaiah is
not magic imposed by God upon a reluctant creation. It will require shepherds to care for
the creation.

Who are “they” in this passage: “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy
mountain?”
And why is the passage, “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain”
followed by the statement, “for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the
waters cover the sea?”

I love Denver Snuffer. People can look down on me, find what I have to say to be less in value due to that, make fun of me and hate me. My mind has been expanded and I have been fed spiritually far more from a few years of reading his writings than from 25 years worth of listening to current general conference talks and reading backlog general conference talks. He has talked a few times about how the Book of Mormon really comes to life with King Benjamin in the Book of Mosiah after a lot of minimal entries from a number of prophets on the small plates leading up to that moment. I felt that way, minimal things to say from people who told me they were my shepherd and who I had committed to allow be my shepherd. I felt I was finding less in messages given by them. Then I stumble on this guy and I think he's insane and I can't believe anyone believes his story. Then I read out of curiosity. And I start to learn and simply find his writings to be compelling fruit that has given me something to consider in evaluating his otherworldly claims. Just as I had fruit for judging Joseph Smith's claims but didn't have for claims on people beyond Joseph Smith.

I can also warn you that all the churches of Mormonism, from the LDS to the
Community of Christ, to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints, and all the offshoots, including the pretenders who now seek to get a
following by their pretended enlightenment; all of them are working at cross
purposes to what the Lord is doing. If they, or you, want to please the Lord you will
assist the labor we are performing. None else, and no-one else, are doing the Lord’s
work, vindicating His covenants, fulfilling His promises, and laboring alongside Him.
We have a covenant from Him, given in 2017 that promises us His protecting hand.
If you follow Christ as Lord, then you will support our work: for it is His work.

That's my GOAT Mormon figure. I think it's time for me to accept the covenant.

Do it!!
I was definitely intrigued by Denver Snuffer when I first heard about him - back in 2014. I was actually a little scared... but intrigued. I have loved almost everything that I have heard from him. It took me a couple of years to get up the courage to be baptized. But I am so glad I did it! And I partook of the covenant offered in 2017 too.

I am an animal lover too. And I AM vegetarian/ pretty much vegan now. Really it's more "whole food plant based" since veganism can be its own set of crazy. But vegan is such a shorter way to describe the way I eat...

[BuriedTartaria]

I know of several people that re-committed and covenanted with Christ, and were re-baptized, without it being a Snuffer or Davis baptism. FWIW. You can approach Christ directly, or... let Moses go up the Mountain on your behalf. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You carry yourself with a composure I love and respect. I can tell you care about my spiritual well-being. You care about the Book of Mormon. You care about the warnings in it. You care about the church. You care enough to speak out when you see it acting in disorder (going along with the plandemic). Thank you for this information you're giving me here. I will carry your advice with me. When I have something to say here, I'm trying to ask if I'm adding something that helps this forum be healthy and productive for people who have faith in the Book of Mormon rather than adding fuel to contentious discussion. My desire is to strive to mainly comment on problems in today's society and prophecy in the scriptures. I sincerely appreciate the gift you've made in creating this forum and maintaining with this forum. Thank you for everything you do.

Do it!!
I was definitely intrigued by Denver Snuffer when I first heard about him - back in 2014. I was actually a little scared... but intrigued. I have loved almost everything that I have heard from him. It took me a couple of years to get up the courage to be baptized. But I am so glad I did it! And I partook of the covenant offered in 2017 too.

I am an animal lover too. And I AM vegetarian/ pretty much vegan now. Really it's more "whole food plant based" since veganism can be its own set of crazy. But vegan is such a shorter way to describe the way I eat...

Thank you for sharing your experiences on your journey with the remnant movement! And I deeply respect you for being vegetarian/vegan-ish. I don't have any desire to forbid others from partaking of it, and I partake as well. But I really respect people like you and I suppose I would like to become mainly vegetarian. I hope your experiences in the remnant movement continue to be positive ^_^

[FrankOne]

I can also warn you that all the churches of Mormonism, from the LDS to the
Community of Christ, to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints, and all the offshoots, including the pretenders who now seek to get a
following by their pretended enlightenment; all of them are working at cross
purposes to what the Lord is doing. If they, or you, want to please the Lord you will
assist the labor we are performing. None else, and no-one else, are doing the Lord’s
work, vindicating His covenants, fulfilling His promises, and laboring alongside Him.
We have a covenant from Him, given in 2017 that promises us His protecting hand.
If you follow Christ as Lord, then you will support our work: for it is His work.

That's my GOAT Mormon figure. I think it's time for me to accept the covenant.

I believe that each person does need to walk the path in front of them because it offers what the person is in need of. ...so , the following isn't meant to deter you.

I have friends that follow Snuffer and have gotten baptized. I, myself , do not currently subscribe to any man or institution. Perhaps I will do so in the future if something unusual occurs such as the Davidic Servant arriving.

I quoted the passage above with the bolded portion to emphasize the key reason that I do not follow anyone today. Each faction which has split off from the LDS and FLDS groups , which number in the high 100's, share one common theme. "We are right and everyone else is wrong". "Don't listen to anyone else because we have the ONLY authority of God on earth".

It does get tiresome to watch men do what they do. It's always the EXACT same repeated line. "I have what no one has, follow me...because.... well.... I said so"

If the day comes when the church of Christ is set aright, those with eyes to see will have no problem knowing that Christ leads that group. The power of it will be an astonishment.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future…

How in the world does he justify this?

[BuriedTartaria]

Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future…

How in the world does he justify this?

There is a scripture somewhere in the Old Testament that discusses the return of sacrifices (or maybe it's in the New Testament). A core message of Denver's teachings is that a return of the religion Adam practiced is destined to come. Just as we drifted away from the "religion of the Fathers" (the patriarchal fathers of the Old Testament) we will return to the "religion of the fathers". The promises the Lord made to patriarchs in the Old Testament will be vindicated. I don't think he sees it (animal sacrifice) being done by many people. I heard him touch on the subject and the way he discussed it, it sounds like it will be very limited with only a small people set apart for certain roles doing it. Yes, animal sacrifice through the Mosaic law was fulfilled. But Denver believes we will return to the true, authentic, original religion practiced by Adam, and animal sacrifice did have a role there.

As I showed from his statements, he is very considerate of living in peace with animals and not a crazy person pushing animal sacrifice in some cult-ish way. His remarks show he wants people listening to his message to treat animals kindly, without malice, to exercise righteous dominion over them. He takes the scriptures seriously.

In one talk from his Ten Talk series (the one about marriage) Denver explained that when Adam and Eve fell, to drive the point home to Adam of the cost it would take to redeem him though the sacrifice of something else, God had Adam slay the male and female animal of his most favorite animal and make coverings for he and Eve using their fur. This put that animal into extinction and taught Adam a powerful lesson.

Even in Christianity there is speculation based off Biblical verses that animal sacrifice will have a role in the future;

[Reluctant Watchman]

Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future…

How in the world does he justify this?

There is a scripture somewhere in the Old Testament that discusses the return of sacrifices (or maybe it's in the New Testament). A core message of Denver's teachings is that a return of the religion Adam practiced is destined to come. Just as we drifted away from the "religion of the Fathers" (the patriarchal fathers of the Old Testament) we will return to the "religion of the fathers". The promises the Lord made to patriarchs in the Old Testament will be vindicated. I don't think he sees it (animal sacrifice) being done by many people. I heard him touch on the subject and the way he discussed it, it sounds like it will be very limited with only a small people set apart for certain roles doing it. Yes, animal sacrifice through the Mosaic law was fulfilled. But Denver believes we will return to the true, authentic, original religion practiced by Adam, and animal sacrifice did have a role there.

As I showed from his statements, he is very considerate of living in peace with animals and not a crazy person pushing animal sacrifice in some cult-ish way. His remarks show he wants people listening to his message to treat animals kindly, without malice, to exercise righteous dominion over them. He takes the scriptures seriously.

In one talk from his Ten Talk series (the one about marriage) Denver explained that when Adam and Eve fell, to drive the point home to Adam of the cost it would take to redeem him though the sacrifice of something else, God had Adam slay the male and female animal of his most favorite animal and make coverings for he and Eve using their fur. This put that animal into extinction and taught Adam a powerful lesson.

Even in Christianity there is speculation based off Biblical verses that animal sacrifice will have a role in the future;

Alma 34

13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.
14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.

To be honest, I find it a desecration of holy things to reimplement this practice.

[BuriedTartaria]

To be honest, I find it a desecration of holy things to reimplement this practice.

That's totally fine. I respect that. I'm not saying I'm correct here. I'm only going to reply to show the Biblical basis for some people thinking a return of this practice will come. People who do see a Biblical basis for a return of animal sacrifice at some point in the future point to a few Biblical passages, but largely to the Book of Ezekiel saying it will be done in an important temple during the Millenium. But the information I'm sharing here is Christian and it does not have the Book of Mormon as an added guide, which you quoted from, to defend your point of view that animal sacrifices are completely done. I'm just trying to explain why some think there will be a return of the practice under the guidance of servants from God.



There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom. Some passages mention it in passing as the topic of the millennial kingdom is discussed, passages like Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18.

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom, a passage that begins with Ezekiel 40. In Ezekiel 40, the Lord begins to give details of the temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom, a temple that dwarfs all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ.

After giving details concerning the size and appearance of the temple and the altar, the Lord then begins to give detailed instruction as to the animal sacrifices that will be offered (Ezekiel 43:18-27). In chapter 44, the Lord gives instructions as to who will be offering sacrifices to the Lord. The Lord states that all of the Levites will not be offering blood and fat to the Lord due to previous sin; it will be those from the lineage of Zadok (verse 15). Chapters 45 and 46 continue to mention that animal sacrifices will be made.

The primary objection made to the idea of animal sacrifices returning during the millennial kingdom is that Christ has come and offered a perfect sacrifice for sin, and there is therefore no need to sacrifice animals for sin. However, it must be remembered that animal sacrifice never removed the sin that spiritually separated a person from the Lord.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html

[Reluctant Watchman]

To be honest, I find it a desecration of holy things to reimplement this practice.

That's totally fine. I respect that. I'm not saying I'm correct here. I'm only going to reply to show the Biblical basis for some people thinking a return of this practice will come. People who do see a Biblical basis for a return of animal sacrifice at some point in the future point to a few Biblical passages, but largely to the Book of Ezekiel saying it will be done in an important temple during the Millenium. But the information I'm sharing here is Christian and it does not have the Book of Mormon as an added guide, which you quoted from, to defend your point of view that animal sacrifices are completely done. I'm just trying to explain why some think there will be a return of the practice under the guidance of servants from God.



There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom. Some passages mention it in passing as the topic of the millennial kingdom is discussed, passages like Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18.

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom, a passage that begins with Ezekiel 40. In Ezekiel 40, the Lord begins to give details of the temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom, a temple that dwarfs all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ.

After giving details concerning the size and appearance of the temple and the altar, the Lord then begins to give detailed instruction as to the animal sacrifices that will be offered (Ezekiel 43:18-27). In chapter 44, the Lord gives instructions as to who will be offering sacrifices to the Lord. The Lord states that all of the Levites will not be offering blood and fat to the Lord due to previous sin; it will be those from the lineage of Zadok (verse 15). Chapters 45 and 46 continue to mention that animal sacrifices will be made.

The primary objection made to the idea of animal sacrifices returning during the millennial kingdom is that Christ has come and offered a perfect sacrifice for sin, and there is therefore no need to sacrifice animals for sin. However, it must be remembered that animal sacrifice never removed the sin that spiritually separated a person from the Lord.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html

I’m sure I could probably find some beneficial things in Denver’s writings, but this is certainly a red flag. I tend to take a lot of the OT w/ a grain of salt.

[SeekWisdom]

To be honest, I find it a desecration of holy things to reimplement this practice.

That's totally fine. I respect that. I'm not saying I'm correct here. I'm only going to reply to show the Biblical basis for some people thinking a return of this practice will come. People who do see a Biblical basis for a return of animal sacrifice at some point in the future point to a few Biblical passages, but largely to the Book of Ezekiel saying it will be done in an important temple during the Millenium. But the information I'm sharing here is Christian and it does not have the Book of Mormon as an added guide, which you quoted from, to defend your point of view that animal sacrifices are completely done. I'm just trying to explain why some think there will be a return of the practice under the guidance of servants from God.



There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom. Some passages mention it in passing as the topic of the millennial kingdom is discussed, passages like Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18.

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom, a passage that begins with Ezekiel 40. In Ezekiel 40, the Lord begins to give details of the temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom, a temple that dwarfs all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ.

After giving details concerning the size and appearance of the temple and the altar, the Lord then begins to give detailed instruction as to the animal sacrifices that will be offered (Ezekiel 43:18-27). In chapter 44, the Lord gives instructions as to who will be offering sacrifices to the Lord. The Lord states that all of the Levites will not be offering blood and fat to the Lord due to previous sin; it will be those from the lineage of Zadok (verse 15). Chapters 45 and 46 continue to mention that animal sacrifices will be made.

The primary objection made to the idea of animal sacrifices returning during the millennial kingdom is that Christ has come and offered a perfect sacrifice for sin, and there is therefore no need to sacrifice animals for sin. However, it must be remembered that animal sacrifice never removed the sin that spiritually separated a person from the Lord.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html

I’m sure I could probably find some beneficial things in Denver’s writings, but this is certainly a red flag. I tend to take a lot of the OT w/ a grain of salt.

Denver’s words seem to align with what Joseph taught. Joseph said:
“[Jehovah] continued to [Noah] the keys, the covenants, the power and the glory, with which he blessed Adam at the beginning; and the offering of sacrifice, which also shall be continued at the last time; for all the ordinances and duties that ever have been required by [p.211] the Priesthood, under the directions and commandments of the Almighty in any of the dispensations, shall all be had in the last dispensation, therefore all things had under the authority of the Priesthood at any former period, shall be had again, bringing to pass the restoration spoken of by the mouth of all the Holy Prophets; then shall the sons of Levi offer an acceptable offering to the Lord. 'And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord.' (See Malachi 3:3).

It will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine set forth in the above quotation, and it is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e., the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus] was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in future: but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the priesthood, or with the Prophets . . . .

These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the [p.212] powers of the Melchisedic Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by the holy Prophets be brought to pass? It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the Prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses' day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.” (History of the Church 4:211).

[Wolfwoman]

Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future…

How in the world does he justify this?

Joseph Smith said the same thing.

[simpleton]

I can also warn you that all the churches of Mormonism, from the LDS to the
Community of Christ, to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints, and all the offshoots, including the pretenders who now seek to get a
following by their pretended enlightenment; all of them are working at cross
purposes to what the Lord is doing. If they, or you, want to please the Lord you will
assist the labor we are performing. None else, and no-one else, are doing the Lord’s
work, vindicating His covenants, fulfilling His promises, and laboring alongside Him.
We have a covenant from Him, given in 2017 that promises us His protecting hand.
If you follow Christ as Lord, then you will support our work: for it is His work.

That's my GOAT Mormon figure. I think it's time for me to accept the covenant.

I believe that each person does need to walk the path in front of them because it offers what the person is in need of. ...so , the following isn't meant to deter you.

I have friends that follow Snuffer and have gotten baptized. I, myself , do not currently subscribe to any man or institution. Perhaps I will do so in the future if something unusual occurs such as the Davidic Servant arriving.

I quoted the passage above with the bolded portion to emphasize the key reason that I do not follow anyone today. Each faction which has split off from the LDS and FLDS groups , which number in the high 100's, share one common theme. "We are right and everyone else is wrong". "Don't listen to anyone else because we have the ONLY authority of God on earth".

It does get tiresome to watch men do what they do. It's always the EXACT same repeated line. "I have what no one has, follow me...because.... well.... I said so"

If the day comes when the church of Christ is set aright, those with eyes to see will have no problem knowing that Christ leads that group. The power of it will be an astonishment.

Isaiah 50:

“Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.”

That is exactly what all of these "wannabees" are doing, including Denver Stuffer, just lighting their own sparks. And until He comes who's "right it is to reign" unto whom "rightly belongs the priesthood" the grand deceptions will continue.
Inspite of the rampant corruption/apostasy in the church (and out of the church), the drama still lies with the church, TCOJCOLDS. That is the promise JS received and none of these power hunger deceived men cannot change the eternal decrees of God Almighty. It will not be given to another people.
Yes, there will be a cleansing the likes of which have not been seen. But as D&C 85 very clearly states this OMAS will "set the House of God in order", not start another house. The foundation that JS laid through the power of the Almighty is a sure foundation. But what we have constructed in the last many decades will have to be removed/cleansed.
Denver, and all other breakoffs are just "lighting sparks" and are there to lead out/deceive the weak minded. I think that the existing leaders do the same thing.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future…

How in the world does he justify this?

Joseph Smith said the same thing.

People claim Joseph said many things. Just sayin'

[Reluctant Watchman]

To be honest, I find it a desecration of holy things to reimplement this practice.

That's totally fine. I respect that. I'm not saying I'm correct here. I'm only going to reply to show the Biblical basis for some people thinking a return of this practice will come. People who do see a Biblical basis for a return of animal sacrifice at some point in the future point to a few Biblical passages, but largely to the Book of Ezekiel saying it will be done in an important temple during the Millenium. But the information I'm sharing here is Christian and it does not have the Book of Mormon as an added guide, which you quoted from, to defend your point of view that animal sacrifices are completely done. I'm just trying to explain why some think there will be a return of the practice under the guidance of servants from God.



There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom. Some passages mention it in passing as the topic of the millennial kingdom is discussed, passages like Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18.

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom, a passage that begins with Ezekiel 40. In Ezekiel 40, the Lord begins to give details of the temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom, a temple that dwarfs all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ.

After giving details concerning the size and appearance of the temple and the altar, the Lord then begins to give detailed instruction as to the animal sacrifices that will be offered (Ezekiel 43:18-27). In chapter 44, the Lord gives instructions as to who will be offering sacrifices to the Lord. The Lord states that all of the Levites will not be offering blood and fat to the Lord due to previous sin; it will be those from the lineage of Zadok (verse 15). Chapters 45 and 46 continue to mention that animal sacrifices will be made.

The primary objection made to the idea of animal sacrifices returning during the millennial kingdom is that Christ has come and offered a perfect sacrifice for sin, and there is therefore no need to sacrifice animals for sin. However, it must be remembered that animal sacrifice never removed the sin that spiritually separated a person from the Lord.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html

I’m sure I could probably find some beneficial things in Denver’s writings, but this is certainly a red flag. I tend to take a lot of the OT w/ a grain of salt.

Denver’s words seem to align with what Joseph taught. Joseph said:
“[Jehovah] continued to [Noah] the keys, the covenants, the power and the glory, with which he blessed Adam at the beginning; and the offering of sacrifice, which also shall be continued at the last time; for all the ordinances and duties that ever have been required by [p.211] the Priesthood, under the directions and commandments of the Almighty in any of the dispensations, shall all be had in the last dispensation, therefore all things had under the authority of the Priesthood at any former period, shall be had again, bringing to pass the restoration spoken of by the mouth of all the Holy Prophets; then shall the sons of Levi offer an acceptable offering to the Lord. 'And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord.' (See Malachi 3:3).

It will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine set forth in the above quotation, and it is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e., the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus] was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in future: but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the priesthood, or with the Prophets . . . .

These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the [p.212] powers of the Melchisedic Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by the holy Prophets be brought to pass? It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the Prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses' day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.” (History of the Church 4:211).

The scriptures are quite clear to me. This last sacrifice is that of a broken heart and contrite spirit.

[Wolfwoman]

Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future…

How in the world does he justify this?

Joseph Smith said the same thing.

People claim Joseph said many things. Just sayin'

Yeah, I was just answering your question. We have quotes of Joseph Smith saying that.
I'm not thrilled with it either. As I said earlier I'm a vegetarian, so I don't like killing animals. And I acknowledge the scriptures about Christ's sacrifice being the end of animal sacrifices.

I also don't really care for circumcision, but that was a big thing too.

[BigT]

To add to the discussion, the return of sacrifice (but for how long?) was mentioned in a conference talk JS had a scribe read ~5 October 1840. Here’s a portion:

“It will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine, set forth in the above quotation, As it is generally supposed
that sacrifice was entirely done away, <when the great sacrif[ic]e was offered up— "& > and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in future; but those who assert this, are certainly not aquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the
priesthood. <or with the prophets> The offering of sac rifice is has ever been connected, and forms a part of the <duties of the> priesthood. It began which with the priesthood and will be continued untill after the coming of christ from generation to
generation "' ——
We frequently have mention made of the offering of Sacrifice by the servants of the most high in antient days prior to the law of
moses, See [blank] which ordinances will be continued when the priesthood is restored with all its Authority power and blessings. Elijah was the last Prophet that held the keys of this priesthood, and who will, before the last dispensation, restore the Authority and
delive[r] the keys of this priesthood in order that all the ordinan[c]es may be attended to in righteousness. "( <It is true that the Savior had authority and power to bestow this blessing <but the sons of Levi were too predjudi[ced]>>
And I will send Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord &c &c. ")
Why send Elijah because he holds the keys of the Authority to administer in all the ordinances of the priesthood and without the Authority is given the ordinances could not be administered in righteousness. [p. 9]
It is a very prevalent opinion that in the sacrifices <sacrifices> of <which> were offered were entirely consumed, this was not the case if you read Leviticus [blank] Chap [blank] Verses you will observe that the priests took a part as a memorial and offered it
up before the Lord, while the remainder was kept for the benefit <maintenance> of the priests— #* So that the offerings and sacrifices are not all consu med upon the Alter, but the blood is sprinkled and the fat and certain other portions are consumed These sacrifices as well as every ordinance belonging to the priesthood will when the temple of the Lord shall be built <and the sons [of] Levi be purified> be fully restored and attended to then the Sons of Levi shall be purified. all their powers raniffications [ramifications], and blessings— this ever was did and will be exist when the powers of the Melchisadc Priesthood are sufficiently
manifest. #! else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by all the Holy prophets be brought to pass be brought to pass, #" It is not to be understood that, the law of Moses will be fully established again with all its rights and <variety of ceremonies> ceremonies <this has never been spoken off by the prophets> but those things which existed prior to Mose’s day viz sacrifice, will be continued— It may be asked by some what necess sity for Sacrifice since the great Sacrifice was offered? In answer to which if Repentance Baptism and faith were neccessary to Salvation <existed> prior to the days of christ what necessity for them since that
time ## ——
The priesthood has descended in a regular line from Father to Son through their succeeding generations“

Link: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... er-1840/17

Regarding the origin on the document:

“This instruction on priesthood was read by Robert B. Thompson on 5 October 1840 during a morning session of the church general conference held from 3 to 5 October in Nauvoo, Illinois. Thompson presented it as “an article on the priesthood, composed by president Joseph Smith jr.”1 Howard Coray later remembered witnessing JS dictate the statement specifically for presentation at the October conference, meaning JS likely composed the document shortly before Thompson read it on 5 October. According to Coray, JS dictated it after unsuccessfully “examining or hunting in the manuscript of the new translation of the Bible for something on Priesthood.”2 Coray recalled that JS gave the instruction during a revelatory moment in which “the Spirit of God descended upon him [JS], and a measure of it upon me, insomuch that I could fully realize that God, or the Holy Ghost, was talking through him.”3“

[inho]

Denver teaches a kind of animal sacrifice will occur at some point in the future…

How in the world does he justify this?

Joseph Smith said the same thing.

People claim Joseph said many things. Just sayin'

Well, at least Joseph Fielding Smith said it:

Joseph Fielding Smith stated that animal sacrifice would happen again to fulfill a symbolic role as part of the restoration of all things in this dispensation:

Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored.

The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character. (Doctrines of Salvation 3:94)

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... ings%22%3F

I think there are other quotes like that, from him or from some other past church leader.

[Reluctant Watchman]

How in the world does he justify this?

Joseph Smith said the same thing.

People claim Joseph said many things. Just sayin'

Well, at least Joseph Fielding Smith said it:

Joseph Fielding Smith stated that animal sacrifice would happen again to fulfill a symbolic role as part of the restoration of all things in this dispensation:

Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored.

The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character. (Doctrines of Salvation 3:94)

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... ings%22%3F

I think there are other quotes like that, from him or from some other past church leader.

I don't get the logic. Why does a blood sacrifice need to be restored?

[inho]

I don't get the logic. Why does a blood sacrifice need to be restored?

I guess this is the logic:

To add to the discussion, the return of sacrifice (but for how long?) was mentioned in a conference talk JS had a scribe read ~5 October 1840. Here’s a portion:

...

It is not to be understood that, the law of Moses will be fully established again with all its rights and <variety of ceremonies> ceremonies <this has never been spoken off by the prophets> but those things which existed prior to Mose’s day viz sacrifice, will be continued—

That raises the question of circumcision. As uncircumcised I am worried...

[Reluctant Watchman]

I don't get the logic. Why does a blood sacrifice need to be restored?

I guess this is the logic:

To add to the discussion, the return of sacrifice (but for how long?) was mentioned in a conference talk JS had a scribe read ~5 October 1840. Here’s a portion:

...

It is not to be understood that, the law of Moses will be fully established again with all its rights and <variety of ceremonies> ceremonies <this has never been spoken off by the prophets> but those things which existed prior to Mose’s day viz sacrifice, will be continued—

That raises the question of circumcision. As uncircumcised I am worried...

The Law of Moses is not coming back. You also get the sense in the BoM that Nephi was not a big fan of it either. Sounds a bit masochistic to want to nip the nether regions by bringing back an old law.

[inho]

I don't get the logic. Why does a blood sacrifice need to be restored?

I guess this is the logic:

To add to the discussion, the return of sacrifice (but for how long?) was mentioned in a conference talk JS had a scribe read ~5 October 1840. Here’s a portion:

...

It is not to be understood that, the law of Moses will be fully established again with all its rights and <variety of ceremonies> ceremonies <this has never been spoken off by the prophets> but those things which existed prior to Mose’s day viz sacrifice, will be continued—

That raises the question of circumcision. As uncircumcised I am worried...

The Law of Moses is not coming back. You also get the sense in the BoM that Nephi was not a big fan of it either. Sounds a bit masochistic to want to nip the nether regions by bringing back an old law.

Law of Moses is not coming back. But in the quote Joseph said that laws older than the Law of Moses are coming back. Animal sacrifice goes back to Adam, so it is older. Circumcision goes back to Abraham, so it too is older. Joseph didn't say anything about it, but if that is the logic, then it should come back too.

Or then neither is coming back.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The Law of Moses is not coming back. You also get the sense in the BoM that Nephi was not a big fan of it either. Sounds a bit masochistic to want to nip the nether regions by bringing back an old law.

Law of Moses is not coming back. But in the quote Joseph said that laws older than the Law of Moses are coming back. Animal sacrifice goes back to Adam, so it is older. Circumcision goes back to Abraham, so it too is older. Joseph didn't say anything about it, but if that is the logic, then it should come back too.

Or then neither is coming back.

A law of sacrifice will (has) return, a higher sacrifice, that of a broken heart and contrite spirit.