Is America the Whore of Revelation 17 & 18?

[eamonk]

My wife had some dreams that I was truly amazed by, because she has never read the bible and was raised Buddhist. The only connection she has to the bible is her strong belief in Christ which is a result of some amazing dreams and experiences she had as a child.

Anyhow, she had quite a few dreams where she saw chaos, destruction, and anarchy in the US. A woman in white told her to read Isaiah 5, Matthew 24, and Revelation if she wanted to know what was about to happen. She also had another dream where Jesus came to her and showed her a lot of things. She woke me up in the middle of the night and asked me who Obadiah was, because she was told that name at the end of the dream. She had absolutely no way to know those scriptures and how much they pertained to what is happening. I truly beleive the dreams were inspired and so I have been studying these scriptures in great depth. I am amazed at what they talk about.

Here are some of the things I have learned. Most of these scriptures have a common theme.. they either directly talk about or allude symbolically to the judgment of Babylon prior to the second coming of Christ. The scriptures have truly come alive to me in a way that they never have before.

So first off, if you read Obidah in the Old Testament is talks about the fall of Edom.

The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord.

I did a lot of research on who Edom was and found that it is symbolic of "mystery Babylon". Remember that, because it will become important later. Also, I found it really interesting that the symbolism it uses to describe Edom is "the eagle" and that is has it's place among "the stars". What country uses the eagle and stars?

Then if you go to Isaiah 5

Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard din a very fruitful hill:
2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth awild grapes?
5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my avineyard: I will btake away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the cwall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

13 ¶ Therefore my people are gone into acaptivity, because they have no bknowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their apomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the alofty shall be humbled:

18 Woe unto them that adraw iniquity with cords of bvanity, and sin cas it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let him make aspeed, and bhasten his work, that we may csee it: and let the counsel of the dHoly One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20 ¶ Woe unto them that call aevil bgood, and good evil; that put cdarkness for dlight, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are awise in their own beyes, and cprudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to adrink bwine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which ajustify the bwicked for reward, and ctake away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the astubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their broot shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.


It is really intersting how it talks about a "very fruitfull hill" with the "choicest vine" and how the Lord could not have done more for it than He did. Because it brought forth "wild grapes" and iniquity he is going to make it desolate and destroy it. What country has been blessed the most, had the choicest land, the most knowledge and light given to it, the most freedom and opportunity?

Then when you go to Matthew 24 we read:

6 And ye shall hear of awars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not btroubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For anation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be bfamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of asorrows.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea aflee into the mountains:
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those adays shall be shortened.
32 Now learn a parable of the afig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that ait is near, even at the bdoors.
37 But as the days of aNoe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the aflood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord adelayeth his coming;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

Pretty self explanatory. I find it interesting that it says that up until the time when the judgement comes they will be "eating and driking" or in other words living a wordly life. They didn't know what hit them. The "evil servant" (many members of the church) will say that the "lord delayeth his coming" .. that it is at some far date in the future. But it says that it will happen "in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware" .. it will be a surprise. That is why it doesn't surprise me that there are alot of people who aren't receptive to the things I tell them. They keep saying, oh that will never happen in our lifetime. They don't take it seriously, yet they say they believe in Christ and his teachings. They are too caught up in worldy pursuits to pay attention to the "writing on the wall" that is all around them. It's so easy to see if you just ignore the distractions of the world and open your heart and mind to it.

Then if you go to Revelation 17 we read:

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the ajudgment of the great bwhore that sitteth upon many cwaters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the ainhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her bfornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of anames of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand afull of abominations and bfilthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, aMYSTERY, bBABYLON THE GREAT, THE cMOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
12 And the ten ahorns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the awhore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and bburn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and agive their kingdom unto the beast, until the bwords of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great acity, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Remeber in Obadiah how Edom was symbolic of "Mystery Bablyon". I truly beleive that the woman riding the beast is symbolic of America. Think about Babylon, what country has the traits of Babylon. It was the greatest nation in the world at the time, it had the most riches, the most powerful army, the highest technology, the most pleasures and luxuries. Is there any other country besides the US that fits this description?

How many kings does our country rule over, how many corrupt leaders harm their own countries because of riches and bribes from "the whore". That is what it means when its says "with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication". What about Hollywood, and MTV, the porn industry, and all the cultural filth that comes the US. What other country has such a dominant influence on the culture of the rest of the world? This is what is means by "and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication"

Notice how the "whore" rides on top of a "beast". If you read Daniel 2 and 7 (extremely important to understand the prophecies of daniel) in the old testament you will find that this beast represents a final kingdom that has power over the entire world, or a new world order. It represents a coalition of 10 kings that give the power of their individual nations over to the "beast". Notice how the rest of the world literally hates the US. How we have been trampeling the world under our feet to secure the oil and other resources we covet. We are literally riding ontop of the rest of the world. Notice how it says that the beast will hate the whore, make her desolate, and burn her with fire. Notice how is describes the woman as "that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. What city is symbolic of the US.. what city is the greatest city in the world, what city is the center of and "reigneth over" the financial world. NEW YORK obviously!!!!!


And then in Revelation 18:

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was alightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, aBabylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the bhold of every foul spirit, and a ccage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her afornication, and the kings of the earth have committed bfornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the cabundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, aCome bout of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her csins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her asins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived adeliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her aplagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly bburned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who cjudgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall abewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the bsmoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and aslaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul alusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast adust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Notice how it says she has live delisiously, and in her heart she says I sit a queen and am no widow. That infers that she was once a bride and had a husband. I think that is symbolic of the fact that she was a chosen nation, but forsook her husband (Christ) and doesn't consider herself a widow.

See how it says her plagues come in one day. Death, mourning, famine, burned with fire. EXTREMELY interesting how the "merchants" mourn her for "no man buyeth their merchandise any more, that they were made rich by here. Who buys all the goods of the world, who has made the rest of the world rich? The US obviously, its such a perfect fit it's not even funny!

The scary part is that is says "in one hour" the whore comes to nought. And that from afar they can see the smoke of her burning. I truly believe that this is in reference to a nuclear attack, what else could cause such devastation "in one hour" and leave the whole country "desolate".

In Acts 2:17 it says"

And it shall come to pass in the last days, said God, I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The reason that scripture is important because it validates the fact that people will have dreams and visions about the last days and the events that are going to occur. I have read so many dreams and visions that good christian people of all faiths have had and it is truly amazing at how similar the event line is in many of them. Obviously they are not all accurate, but when you see the same theme over and over, there may very well be something too it.

You would be amazed at how many dreams involve America being on fire because of a massive nuclear attack. I see it over and over again. What's even more amazing is that there are scriptures that describe the specific countries that are going to destroy the whore. It is a coalition of nations.

In Jeremiah 50 is says:

3 For out of the anorth there cometh up a nation against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall bdwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast.
9 ¶ For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the anorth country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken:their barrows shall be as of a mighty expert man
13 Because of the wrath of the Lord it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.
23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
24 I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the Lord.
41 Behold, a people shall come from the anorth, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the bcoasts of the earth.

Notice he says an assembly of great nations from the north country will make her desolate. And that they are caught unaware, it is a surprise to her people. If you look directly north of Israel, (where Jeremiah was ) you will see Moscow is one of the "great" nations in the north. How would an ancient person describe missles? perhaps "arrows... as of a mighty expert man"

Then in Jeremiah 51 says

6 Flee aout of the midst of bBabylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.
7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the Lord’s hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the Lord hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the Lord, the vengeance of his temple.
28 Prepare against her the nations with the kings of the Medes, the captains thereof, and all the rulers thereof, and all the land of his dominion.


Notice the similarity between verse 7 and Revelation 18:3... amazing!!! Do a google search for the kingdom of the "Medes". You will see that it was primarily Iran and southern Russia. Pay attention to the news, the tensions building with Iran and Russia. Iran has called the US the great satan. Notice all the military pacts between Russia and Iran. Notice how Russia is the one helping Iran with it's nuclear program. Russia is the one who is about to give Iran it's billion dollar missle defence system. You would be amazed at how anti american Putin is. He was recently at a rally where they burned an american flag and dressed a pig in an american flag. He is blaming the economic collapse on America. He blamed the Georgia war that happend last August on America, because the nation of Georgia is a puppet state of the US.

There is no telling how long this is going to take to play out, but my feeling is sooner rather than later. I feel this way because in the scriptures it says that Christ will come as a "thief in the night", and in a time when they "looketh not for him". Many Christians beleive that Christ is coming in their lifetime, but they think of it as something in the far of distance, well in the future, maybe 20 - 30 years from now. What if it isn't, what if, as it says in Matthew 24, what we are now experiencing is the "beginning of sorrows" and that it will happen quickly because "except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened".

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqaesQ2E ... ecommended

[pjbrownie]

Well as someone who has been studying Isaiah, Daniel, and Revelations, let me tell you that you are somewhat right but not altogether. Daniel's description of this kingdom is the little horn, which he calls "diverse from all the others." It is also the kingdom of the iron and clay toes. Revelations makes it very clear that this kingdom looks to Rome as a symbol if not Rome itself MYSTERY BABYLON. The BOM calls it the Great and Abominable Church. Isaiah calls it the political union of symbolic Egypt, Babylon, Syria, and Ephraim which shall rise against symbolic Judah (the righteous of Israel). A nation that is a type of Assyria (a kingdom of the North) destroys this secret combination. This kingdom is ripe with conpiracies, and according to Isaiah, lies and flatters its subjects to follow it.

America does fit this in a sense. Who is the power in America? As it is clear in the present dangers we have been witnessing, it is the Federal Reserve and the worldwide banking system that has its roots in England and Europe. This consortium rules the West from the shadows, but its biggest tool for worlwide oppression is America. This is Mystery Babylon which rides the Beast (third world and communistic nations that serve her will). When God decides to cleanse America, he will do it through economic destruction, civil unrest, plagues, revolution, nuclear destruction, invasion from another country to clean out the wicked (betrayal by the Beast), and finally, earthquakes and floods to prepare the way for Zion.

In other words, I want to clarify that America is a tool here. The real power is in Europe - that kingdom that had its beginnings in the Medeval Catholic Church, the Byzantine Empire, the "divine right of kings." Google who is behind the banking consortiums, and it is the old aristocracies of Europe, trying to bring back a neo-feudalism using money and ideology to enslave the world. America almost had this whipped several times by abolishing central banks, but the banks of England had too much control over America from the get-go and America has never been able to shake it off. They have used America's industrial strength as a tool. The values and principles of America herself are righteous, but they have been put to poor use.

[BroJones]

eabrownie -- we discussed Rev 17&18 (and much more related) in this thread:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... lit=surely

The conclusion was that the whore Babylon is the international banking and corporate combination, the globalists, ruling over essentially all the nations, and worshipped by SEVEN principal nations (e.g. G7).
The scarlet beast has seven heads, one of which had a fatal wound yet came back -- Russia. We had a good discussion already on REV 17&18 over there...

[pjbrownie]

Right!!!

I do want to caveat that in all biblical prophecy, one of the hangups we have is whether to interpret bibilical prophecy as historical millennialism, or futuristic premillenialism. If you go online, you will see hundreds of arguments over whether these things are past or future. You will also see some that try to interpret this as preterism or the arguments Catholics use as interpreted by Augustine.

We know that as LDS we are generallly historicists. The timelines in Daniel interpreted as years (1290 days) relate to the prophecies in Revelations. From a historical angle, MYSTERY BABYLON is the Roman Empire, the first historical Beast, which slowly declined as it killed and martyred the Saints, than in the 6th century was replaced by the Euro-Byzantine system that co-opted Christianity (the historical little horn and/or second Beast), completely stamped out any vestiges of the true Priesthood in North Europe and Britain, vaulted itself unto the heavens through the Popes, changed the laws and times (Gregorian Calendar), and we entered a 1260 day dark age of Priesthood that came to an end completely in 1830.

But you cannot stop there. Like in all prophecy, they have multiple meanings - but you must be careful of conjecture - anything in the future must be read as opinion and with the spirit - but it is essential to the complete understanding. Isaiah himself stated that the full understanding of his prophecies would not be understood until after the world was destroyed by fire. You can see this because if you try to interpret ancient prophecy completely in the historical angle, where are the plagues and destruction promised? Where are the saints persecuted then saved in their Zion homeland? Where is the Savior descending? In order to get the complete context you have to reinterpret these prophecies in the future as well, and that history repeats. Interestingly enough, the historical kingdoms of MYSTERY BABYLON (Rome) and he futuristic kingdoms (G7 Nations) aren't that far off. They both are militaristic, revel in money, have declined morals, practice homosexuality, persecutes the righteous, and even mimic the architecture and art from that period. Our MYSTERY BABYLON wants to re-establish Rome so it not only is comprised of seven nations (G7) but it looks to Rome as its muse (the land with seven hills). Conversely, when it uses the first Beast that it rides (poorer, eastern, and communistic nations) to subjugate the world, the first Beast will turn on it and destroy it (fall into that great pit which the Great and Abominable Church has dug, or devour the whore), it will in turn be defeated by Zion in America and will be replaced by the second Beast which will probably be very similar to the Byzatine/Catholic system of the Dark Ages. There will be a false prophet and king that will try to deceive the masses into the one world faith. Those that don't have the mark of this (like those that weren't Catholic anciently) will be destroyed, burned, or decapitated. This kingdom will last for almost seven years (2300 days) and will trample the Saints in the Old World/Jews in the Middle East for 1260 days.

[LukeAir2008]

[NoGreaterLove]

My belief is that the iron and clay mixed toes are england and the us.

[BroJones]

PJB-- where in REV. do you get 2300 days and the rest of what you say here?

There will be a false prophet and king that will try to deceive the masses into the one world faith. Those that don't have the mark of this (like those that weren't Catholic anciently) will be destroyed, burned, or decapitated. This kingdom will last for almost seven years (2300 days)

[NoGreaterLove]

The following talk seems to fit the ten toes spoken of in the kings dream.

Discourse by Elder Orson Pratt,Second Coming of Christ—The Kingdom of God—Immediate Revelation—A Highway Cast Up—Gathering of Israel—One Universal Government on Earth.J943

Delivered in the Fourteenth Ward Assembly Rooms, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, February 28, 1875.(Reported by David W. Evans.)

Says one—"That is an awful condition for our earth to be in to have no Christian Church upon it for so long a period. Can not help it. If it is a woeful condition, it is necessary for us to search the Scriptures in order that we may learn if God ever intends to alter this order of things, and if he ever intends to again establish his kingdom upon the earth. Daniel, in his prophecy, has informed us that such will be the case. He saw the time when that great event would take place. He saw the four great kingdoms which should bear rule over all the earth. The fourth great power which bore rule over the world was the great Roman Empire, which was represented by the two legs of the great image which he saw. And as the world grew older this empire was divided, and the various kingdoms which sprang therefrom became so weakened that they were represented, not by iron altogether, but by iron mixed with miry clay. They had not the strength of former kingdoms, and they are the kingdoms of modern Europe and the Republic of America, which has been built up by people who have come over to the American continent, and have established one of the wisest and best governments upon the face of the whole earth, but yet not established altogether after the order of the kingdom of God.