Where are my concubines?

[Kingdom of ZION]

this Principle of Concubinage can only be obtained by personal prayer and revelation from the devil

I made your statement much more accurate and to the point.

You are free to believe whatever you choose, as per G_d's freely granting divine liberty and agency to all, and reaffirmed by the uS Constitution. But to attempt to speak for me is NOT one of those liberties! Small mindedness is bred out of ignorance, superstition and fear. Where you are upon the Path is where you choose to be, that does not mean it is where our Father would have you, but that is between you and Him!

[FrankOne]

this Principle of Concubinage can only be obtained by personal prayer and revelation from the devil

The devil made your statement much more accurate and to the point.

another correction.

[FrankOne]

The salient point for me is.... "Why would God make a class of distinction at all?" . Here in this modern day, why have concubines and why is it in a scripture which goes on about eternal progression? Could concubinage be a sort of stepping stone for women even in an eternal existence? Interesting.

Though I state the true doctrine as a matter of fact, ownership of this Principle of Concubinage can only be obtained by personal prayer and revelation.

She has a Mission Given her by G_d and possible her King/Husband, and even at times, she may come down for her posterity's sake. Like all Fourth Estate Beings, she shall work on her own weaknesses and short comings while serving others.


So the answer to the question, 'Is there different statuses or classes of Beings in the Celestial Kingdom?' A cursory reading of D&C 132 points out that those women who do not live this Law (N&EC of Marriage) shall remain single and separate, and shall be a servant unto those who are worthy of an Eternal Weight and Increase in Glory. There are female servants in the Celestial Kingdom, so yes there is different statuses or classes of Beings in the Celestial Kingdom.

Shalom

I enjoyed reading your post. Although you must have been given certain amounts of this information, I would take a guess in that you've filled in the gaps with more detail than were given for you to understand by God. If God sat you down and told you every single one of those details, I would be very surprised. ..but... it could have happened. I am unable to make any judgment on this.

I clipped out the portions that I am certain are true, hence my question in the previous post. At times, I pose a question rather than give an answer in order to be better accepted by readers.

Your extreme detail on this subject is interesting. Are you saying that all of that came directly from God to you or were there other writings or influences which caused you to draw those conclusions?

The concept of multiple mortal probations is a difficult subject for most. Most really aren't 'ready' per se for anything but the teaching of repentance which is why many leaders have been instructed by God to only teach the basics. Anything but the basics insults the average person which then makes them defensive and..in that defensiveness, a wall is created which prevents them from learning.

When the body dies, the child of God has the same character as he did before passing. The weaknesses and the strengths ...still the same. There is no one on the other side that can wave a magic wand and make you perfect. It has to be done by US. It takes time.

[Shawn Henry]

But to attempt to speak for me is NOT one of those liberties!

To be clear, in case I wasn't clear enough, this was simply me reiterating my stance with a touch of my sense of humor as I have no desire whatsoever to infringe upon your rights.

[Alexander]

You're joking. You're not actually this dense.

"This thing that doesn't actually talk about the thing we're talking about is OBVIOUSLY meaning whatever it is I want it to say."

“I can’t read.”


It literally says the Nephites indulged in polygamy and concubinage, and then Jacob calls it slavery.

Unfortunately, that's not the only thing he was talking about. You're forcing an interpretation on the text that just isn't there.

Lmao

You know what "captive" means Franklin. Don't play dumb.

[Shawn Henry]

this Principle of Concubinage can only be obtained by personal prayer and revelation from the devil

The devil made your statement much more accurate and to the point.

another correction.

Darn that damn devil.

[Shawn Henry]

The concept of multiple mortal probations is a difficult subject for most. Most really aren't 'ready'

I'm ready! Bring it! That's my favorite speculative doctrine.

[LDS Watchman]

"This thing that doesn't actually talk about the thing we're talking about is OBVIOUSLY meaning whatever it is I want it to say."

“I can’t read.”


It literally says the Nephites indulged in polygamy and concubinage, and then Jacob calls it slavery.

Unfortunately, that's not the only thing he was talking about. You're forcing an interpretation on the text that just isn't there.

Lmao

You know what "captive" means Franklin. Don't play dumb.

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing Tyler. Don't play dumb.

[FrankOne]

this Principle of Concubinage can only be obtained by personal prayer and revelation from the devil

The devil made your statement much more accurate and to the point.

another correction.

Darn that damn devil.

HAHAHAHA!

thanks for taking that in the spirit in which I intended it. Devils everywhere wearing black hats and white hats . (some are better at pretending).

The only thing I know for sure is that arguments are the theater for those that are not sure about what they are claiming.

The real truth is never argued because the one that holds that truth sees no need to engage anyone. Something to put in our pipes and smoke. I could go for some good tobacco in a peace pipe right now but who would smoke it with me?

[FrankOne]

The concept of multiple mortal probations is a difficult subject for most. Most really aren't 'ready'

I'm ready! Bring it! That's my favorite speculative doctrine.

I think you're too fired up for me to engage. I'm sure that you'd have plenty of references and none of them would matter to me. ....hahahahah.

[Shawn Henry]

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing

I know I'm inserting myself here into this conversation, but yes, they are. They are so synonymous that they are almost completely interchangeable. It's like saying getting hit in the head with a crowbar versus hit in the head with a baseball bat. Same end result, you're in a coma or your dead.

[LDS Watchman]

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing

I know I'm inserting myself here into this conversation, but yes, they are. They are so synonymous that they are almost completely interchangeable. It's like saying getting hit in the head with a crowbar versus hit in the head with a baseball bat. Same end result, you're in a coma or your dead.

No, they aren't. They have different definitions and don't mean the same thing.

Jacob 2 also deals with more than unauthorized polygamy and whoredoms. There are other sins the Nephite men were guilty of that would lead them all, including the women, into captivity if they didn't repent.

Tyler knows this. He's just playing dumb.

[Alexander]

“I can’t read.”


It literally says the Nephites indulged in polygamy and concubinage, and then Jacob calls it slavery.

Unfortunately, that's not the only thing he was talking about. You're forcing an interpretation on the text that just isn't there.

Lmao

You know what "captive" means Franklin. Don't play dumb.

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing Tyler. Don't play dumb.

Matthias

To captivate (make captive; lead away captive; bring into captivity) or capture or subdue someone, is to bring them into bondage or imprisonment by seizure; to make or take prisoner; to enslave; to insnare.

A prisoner is one who is in a place of confinement or involuntary restraint. They are enchained; they are caught; restrained. They are taken. If you are captivating someone, you are bringing them into bondage; slavery or involuntary servitude; captivity; imprisonment; restraint of a person's liberty by compulsion.

[LDS Watchman]

Unfortunately, that's not the only thing he was talking about. You're forcing an interpretation on the text that just isn't there.

Lmao

You know what "captive" means Franklin. Don't play dumb.

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing Tyler. Don't play dumb.

Matthias

To captivate (make captive; lead away captive; bring into captivity) or capture or subdue someone, is to bring them into bondage or imprisonment by seizure; to make or take prisoner; to enslave; to insnare.

A prisoner is one who is in a place of confinement or involuntary restraint. They are enchained; they are caught; restrained. They are taken. If you are captivating someone, you are bringing them into bondage; slavery or involuntary servitude; captivity; imprisonment; restraint of a person's liberty by compulsion.

Tyler the Great.

You know that slavery and captivity don't mean the same thing. Slavery can be a form of captivity, but it is by no means the only form. Enslavement is not the primary definition of captivity. Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

Please don't play dumb.

[Shawn Henry]

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing

I know I'm inserting myself here into this conversation, but yes, they are. They are so synonymous that they are almost completely interchangeable. It's like saying getting hit in the head with a crowbar versus hit in the head with a baseball bat. Same end result, you're in a coma or your dead.

Jacob 2 also deals with more than unauthorized polygamy and whoredoms. There are other sins the Nephite men were guilty of that would lead them all, including the women, into captivity if they didn't repent.

By polygamy's fruits you will know it.

Where did it lead us? It got us kicked out of Nauvoo, out of the last stake of Zion, out of the promised land and out of the country entirely into Mexican territory under the oppressive rule of BY in a barren wasteland of a desert and the heavens closed and the Lord stopped adding revelations to the D&C. Sounds like captivity to me.

[LDS Watchman]

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing

I know I'm inserting myself here into this conversation, but yes, they are. They are so synonymous that they are almost completely interchangeable. It's like saying getting hit in the head with a crowbar versus hit in the head with a baseball bat. Same end result, you're in a coma or your dead.

Jacob 2 also deals with more than unauthorized polygamy and whoredoms. There are other sins the Nephite men were guilty of that would lead them all, including the women, into captivity if they didn't repent.

By polygamy's fruits you will know it.

Where did it lead us? It got us kicked out of Nauvoo, out of the last stake of Zion, out of the promised land and out of the country entirely into Mexican territory under the oppressive rule of BY in a barren wasteland of a desert and the heavens closed and the Lord stopped adding revelations to the D&C. Sounds like captivity to me.

This is a very bizarre twisting of church history, which is not grounded in reality.

Be that as it may, your definition of captivity is clearly not slavery, so the point has been made. So now Tyler the Great has a second witness to the fact that he's playing dumb.

[Alexander]

Lmao

You know what "captive" means Franklin. Don't play dumb.

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing Tyler. Don't play dumb.

Matthias

To captivate (make captive; lead away captive; bring into captivity) or capture or subdue someone, is to bring them into bondage or imprisonment by seizure; to make or take prisoner; to enslave; to insnare.

A prisoner is one who is in a place of confinement or involuntary restraint. They are enchained; they are caught; restrained. They are taken. If you are captivating someone, you are bringing them into bondage; slavery or involuntary servitude; captivity; imprisonment; restraint of a person's liberty by compulsion.

Tyler the Great.

You know that slavery and captivity don't mean the same thing. Slavery can be a form of captivity, but it is by no means the only form. Enslavement is not the primary definition of captivity. Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

Please don't play dumb.

Ok, so you don't like the word slavery. Fine. The whoredom of the men (desiring and taking wives and concubines) is bringing the women into bondage or imprisonment. Whatever. The point being that the Lord doesn't like it.

[Shawn Henry]

Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

It absolutely is. The answer is even given in the same verse.

"For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts."

They are led away captive because of the "whoredoms" of their fathers. Now granted, they might not yet be sex slaves themselves, but that is the system they were inheriting, the system that guaranteed that they would eventually be sex slaves when they were married off as property.

[LDS Watchman]

You know that captivity and slavery aren't the same thing Tyler. Don't play dumb.

Matthias

To captivate (make captive; lead away captive; bring into captivity) or capture or subdue someone, is to bring them into bondage or imprisonment by seizure; to make or take prisoner; to enslave; to insnare.

A prisoner is one who is in a place of confinement or involuntary restraint. They are enchained; they are caught; restrained. They are taken. If you are captivating someone, you are bringing them into bondage; slavery or involuntary servitude; captivity; imprisonment; restraint of a person's liberty by compulsion.

Tyler the Great.

You know that slavery and captivity don't mean the same thing. Slavery can be a form of captivity, but it is by no means the only form. Enslavement is not the primary definition of captivity. Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

Please don't play dumb.

Ok, so you don't like the word slavery. Fine. The whoredom of the men (desiring and taking wives and concubines) is bringing the women into bondage or imprisonment. Whatever.

What was leading them all, including the innocent into captivity, was the love of riches and the vain things of this world, to which these wicked men also added lusting after many wives for sexual gratification and as status symbols.

[LDS Watchman]

Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

It absolutely is. The answer is even given in the same verse.

"For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts."

They are led away captive because of the "whoredoms" of their fathers. Now granted, they might not yet be sex slaves themselves, but that is the system they were inheriting, the system that guaranteed that they would eventually be sex slaves when they were married off as property.

This doesn't make any sense.

By today's standards pretty much all wives were considered to be their husband's property anciently. Do you consider all wives to be sex slaves anciently?

[Alexander]

Matthias

To captivate (make captive; lead away captive; bring into captivity) or capture or subdue someone, is to bring them into bondage or imprisonment by seizure; to make or take prisoner; to enslave; to insnare.

A prisoner is one who is in a place of confinement or involuntary restraint. They are enchained; they are caught; restrained. They are taken. If you are captivating someone, you are bringing them into bondage; slavery or involuntary servitude; captivity; imprisonment; restraint of a person's liberty by compulsion.

Tyler the Great.

You know that slavery and captivity don't mean the same thing. Slavery can be a form of captivity, but it is by no means the only form. Enslavement is not the primary definition of captivity. Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

Please don't play dumb.

Ok, so you don't like the word slavery. Fine. The whoredom of the men (desiring and taking wives and concubines) is bringing the women into bondage or imprisonment. Whatever.

What was leading them all, including the inmocent into captivity, was the love of riches and the vain things of this world, to which these wicked men also added lusting after many wives for sexual gratification and as status symbols.

Jacob said he was finished going over the crimes (of haughtiness and wealthy riotousness) and was moving on to discuss more heinous crimes of whoredom and sexual nature.

"And now I make an end of speaking unto you concerning this pride. And were it not that I must speak unto you concerning a grosser crime"


Read it; the women in tender sorrow cry to the Lord against the men who commit whoredoms since their abominations (of taking many wives and concubines) breaks the hearts of the women, and the Lord will not tolerate such abominable iniquity as it brings the women into captivity.

"For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands. And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts. For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts."

For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people... for they shall not commit whoredoms.

[LDS Watchman]

Tyler the Great.

You know that slavery and captivity don't mean the same thing. Slavery can be a form of captivity, but it is by no means the only form. Enslavement is not the primary definition of captivity. Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

Please don't play dumb.

Ok, so you don't like the word slavery. Fine. The whoredom of the men (desiring and taking wives and concubines) is bringing the women into bondage or imprisonment. Whatever.

What was leading them all, including the inmocent into captivity, was the love of riches and the vain things of this world, to which these wicked men also added lusting after many wives for sexual gratification and as status symbols.

Jacob said he was finished going over the crimes (of haughtiness and wealthy riotousness) and was moving on to discuss more heinous crimes of whoredom and sexual nature.

"And now I make an end of speaking unto you concerning this pride. And were it not that I must speak unto you concerning a grosser crime"


Read it; the women in tender sorrow cry to the Lord against the men who commit whoredoms since their abominations (of taking many wives and concubines) breaks the hearts of the women, and the Lord will not tolerate such abominable iniquity as it brings the women into captivity.

"For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands. And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts. For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts."

For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people... for they shall not commit whoredoms.

You can put whatever spin you want on this chapter, but the fact is that Jacob does not say that having more than one wife or having concubines equals slavery, which is what you originally claimed.

The wickedness of the men was leading them all into captivity, including the women, if they didn't repent of their sins.

Unless of course you want to argue that Abraham and Jacob, the righteous fathers of the faithful, were guilty of whoredoms, abominations, and sex slavery, by having concubines.

[Shawn Henry]

Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

It absolutely is. The answer is even given in the same verse.

"For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts."

They are led away captive because of the "whoredoms" of their fathers. Now granted, they might not yet be sex slaves themselves, but that is the system they were inheriting, the system that guaranteed that they would eventually be sex slaves when they were married off as property.

By today's standards pretty much all wives were considered to be their husband's property anciently. Do you consider all wives to be sex slaves anciently?

That is immaterial to what Jacob said. He specifically said that the fathers whoredoms brought their daughters into captivity. It was just like in old times, having many wives was a status symbol for the men and the women paid the price.

[LDS Watchman]

Sex slavery is not what Jacob was talking about.

It absolutely is. The answer is even given in the same verse.

"For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts."

They are led away captive because of the "whoredoms" of their fathers. Now granted, they might not yet be sex slaves themselves, but that is the system they were inheriting, the system that guaranteed that they would eventually be sex slaves when they were married off as property.

By today's standards pretty much all wives were considered to be their husband's property anciently. Do you consider all wives to be sex slaves anciently?

That is immaterial to what Jacob said. He specifically said that the fathers whoredoms brought their daughters into captivity. It was just like in old times, having many wives was a status symbol for the men and the women paid the price.

It's not immaterial at all. You equated sex slavery with a wife being considered her husband's property. If this were the criteria nearly all wives anciently would have been sex slaves.

Also, have you ever heard of a trophy wife or marrying a woman of a certain social status? A single wife can also be a status symbol. This doesn't make her a slave.

[Shawn Henry]

Unless of course you want to argue that Abraham and Jacob, the righteous fathers of the faithful, were guilty of whoredoms, abominations, and sex slavery, by having concubines.

We don't know that. We don't know where the translations errors of the Bible are and where they are not. That is why our default is Jacob 2, because not only is it a correct translation, but it is Christ himself calling Polygamy an abomination.