Women and Polygamy

[OCDMOM]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

[Luke]

Voices in Harmony is a good book. Testimonies from plural wives about the Principle.

Everyone here has different opinions on Joseph Smith and polygamy. The main three lines are:

1. He was a polygamist and this was right (I believe this)
2. He was a polygamist and this was wrong
3. He was not a polygamist

[nvr]

Understand that the history we have on the subject was filtered through the Utah church, which practiced it. And they had obvious reasons to create the picture that Joseph taught and practiced it.
Book of Mormon is clear on the subject, as is Book of Commandments up until and shortly after Joseph's death. It doesn't mean the church fell away, In my opinion, we hit a detour - the Lord in his mercy has still worked with us even after we took up incorrect ideas and eventually ended them.

[Shawn Henry]

1. He was a polygamist and this was right (I believe this)
2. He was a polygamist and this was wrong
3. He was not a polygamist

I lament my subcategory is not popular.

1. He was a polygamist and this was right
1 a. He was a polygamist and he rightfully followed God by giving the saints this test, which they failed.
2. He was a polygamist and this was wrong
3. He was not a polygamist

[Shawn Henry]

Have you all noticed there don't ever seem to be any women defending polygamy here on our threads? Very telling indeed.

[logonbump]

Check out Jacob IsBell's story on Disciple of Christ channel YouTube. He has a testimony of Joseph's innocence in this matter.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCzmNI8qdxHdvWwHDvnRZ9mw

[Reluctant Watchman]

3. He was not a polygamist and sexual abuse and pedophilia was normalized in the church.

[Luke]

Have you all noticed there don't ever seem to be any women defending polygamy here on our threads? Very telling indeed.

There used to be a lot of female defenders of polygamy on this forum (more than men, in fact). There even used to be a plural wife on the forum.

And it’s not “telling”. As if you can gauge whether something is true or not by a certain amount of people of a certain gender taken from a small group of people on an online forum approving of it.

[Baurak Ale]

Have you all noticed there don't ever seem to be any women defending polygamy here on our threads? Very telling indeed.

My wife is a defender of it, but she doesn’t spend time online because she hates anything related to the internet. Same with other women I know with whom I’ve discussed polygamy and who wholly support it. They exist but have found the Lord has called them out of the virtual world so that they may live more fully in the real world.

I think they’re making the better choice. In the real world, polygamy has a practical value and isn’t a chew toy for theoretical debate. Its really only on this forum that I’m reminded that there are people who call themselves Mormons who consider polygamy a mistake.

[Sarah]

Have you all noticed there don't ever seem to be any women defending polygamy here on our threads? Very telling indeed.

There used to be a lot of female defenders of polygamy on this forum (more than men, in fact). There even used to be a plural wife on the forum.

And it’s not “telling”. As if you can gauge whether something is true or not by a certain amount of people of a certain gender taken from a small group of people on an online forum approving of it.

The only one I can think of was Eliza (and she was a polyandry believer). Who else are you thinking of?

[Gadianton Slayer]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

Here’s a good resource:

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/polygamy-adultery

[Baurak Ale]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

Remind your friend that marrying a 14-year-old was only considered inappropriate very recently in human history. Even in Joseph Smith’s day it was far less stigmatized. Tradition even holds that Mary the mother of Jesus was around 14 when she was impregnated.

Then I would tell your friend about how God revealed plural marriage as a privilege with blessings as early as 1831 but that after Joseph tried to first implement it and made Emma angry he got scared and didn’t go back until 1841 or so when God revealed it again but this time as a commandment.

As for what to read, try “Defense of Polygamy” by Belinda Pratt. https://archive.org/details/defenceofpo ... 1/mode/2up

[Niemand]

.

[cab]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

Easy. Tell her there’s a very good chance Joseph never taught nor practiced polygamy.
viewtopic.php?t=63789&hilit=Best+sources

[Luke]

.

At least the Muslim is half right.

[Lexew1899]

It’s tough to hide Joseph Smith by todays standards. First of all he never said he practiced polygamy, so it’s a he said she said argument with dead people we’ll never sort out, so not much to read or study that’s going to make everything crystal clear. Maybe he did or didn’t, I say who cares. I think he probably did, just like Jesus Christ.

[Niemand]

.

At least the Muslim is half right.

The irony is that if polygamy is legalised in the west then it will probably be because of Muslims. Maybe also gay marriage (I've heard people argue this).

I know the UK already recognises some degree of polygamy with foreign nationals, e.g. the rich Arabs you would see hanging around parts of London with their wives. No idea what the deal with domiciled Muslims is, but Muslim polygamists are already in the UK.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

14 year old child.

Church admits pedophilia.

The end.

[Luke]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

14 year old child.

Church admits pedophilia.

The end.

By all accounts Mary, the Mother of Jesus, was about 13 or 14 when she gave birth to Christ.

What do we do with this information?

[Wolfwoman]

Not sure if your friend is beyond helping or if they would still like to hear information from you. Some people have already made up their minds about these things. But if your friend is open to learning more, they can research what Brian Hales has said about it. And probably others. I think the general consensus is that the marriage to the 14 year old, Helen Mar Kimball, was never consummated. I view it as a dynastic sealing, not a marriage in the way we would normally consider a marriage.

The part about she wouldn't go to the Celestial Kingdom if she didn't is your friend paraphrasing and is incorrect information, as far as I'm concerned, though I wasn't there!

The part about Emma catching Joseph cheating on her in the barn is about Joseph's sealing to Fanny Alger. They weren't having sex in the barn. If you read the original sources, they were performing a ceremony in the barn. I forgot who the guy was that was performing the ceremony. But yeah, it wasn't Emma catching them having sex.

My personal views on the matter are that Joseph was true to Emma. That he told the truth when he said he only had 1 wife. But that he was doing familial sealings and to everyone's misunderstanding, they thought that meant SEX, SEX, SEX!!!

[HVDC]

Definitions are important when describing things.

Definition of pedophilia: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
specifically : a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedophilic

Pedophilia (alternatively spelt paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

The question then becomes were these prepubescent children.

Sir H

[Niemand]

16 used to be considered adult here. You can still marry at that age, join the military, pay taxes, leave full time education etc, although you can't smoke and drink now.

The age of consent has varied a lot in Europe and recent times. The high end is 18, which has become widespread. The low end was 12, although for some places that was with people around their own age.

Full biological maturity starts for some people at the mid to late twenties, if we go by brain development. Some jurisdictions used to consider you an adult at 21. If I speak for myself, I think I reached adulthood at 17 because I had to start looking after myself then.

I don't want to go into too much other detail, because I think it may come across as sordid. People do develop at different rates, physically and mentally. I know some twenty somethings who are still kids, and also older teenagers who are way ahead of them. It seems the breeding window has shifted from mid-teens to mid-thirties a couple of hundred years ago, to late-twenties to mid-forties today (with many women waiting until their late thirties).

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

14 year old child.

Church admits pedophilia.

The end.

By all accounts Mary, the Mother of Jesus, was about 13 or 14 when she gave birth to Christ.

What do we do with this information?

Question it. We already know the stories have been butchered.

[Luke]

Most Women are uncomfortable with Polygamy now days. I heard our Stake President talking about a lot of Women leaving the church based on that past issue. My friend said that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old. He told her she wouldn't make it too the Celestial kingdom if she didn't. She also said that Emma didn't know about it and caught him cheating on her in the barn. It is on the Church website about him marrying a 14 year old. I love the Book of Mormon and that keeps me from doubting Joseph Smith. What can I say to her or what can I read about this.

14 year old child.

Church admits pedophilia.

The end.

By all accounts Mary, the Mother of Jesus, was about 13 or 14 when she gave birth to Christ.

What do we do with this information?

Question it. We already know the stories have been butchered.

Assuming it's true, what do you do with that information?

[NeveR]

Voices in Harmony is a good book. Testimonies from plural wives about the Principle.

Stockholm syndrome. Take away a woman's dignity and sense of worth, make her and her kids totally reliant economically on this man who has other wives...

then ask her for her 'real' opinion on polygamy.

If she hates it and says so she will lose standing in her 'community' of wives. Her husband won't like her as much. She will get bitchiness from her 'sisters'.

99% of women in that situation will say they love their servitude.