Hello from the desert. Riverbed ranch.

[M249Gunner]

Riverbed Ranch is out by Death Canyon. I have camped in that canyon and explored in and around the old mines there. That was years ago. The roads going in and out of that area were not great. Are they better now? I think I had a flat tire each time I went out there. There is also a little Poney Express cabin and campground north of there.

Porter Rockwell had a ranch a bit east or south east of that area. Interesting area, though I’m not sure I would want to live there. I prefer mountains with pines, quakies, lakes, and streams with fish.

[M249Gunner]

That place would be more appealing if it had an airport.

[M249Gunner]

Build an airport with a campground and stock it with fuel and you may make some money off of pilots who like to camp with their planes. Like the Utah Backcountry Pilots Association people.

[Reluctant Watchman]

so now you're an office rat, in your mid 50's, wondering why you can't live in the country. It sucks. I've been there.

We are debt free. Just this past week we ran the base family budget w/ the kids. I'm talking food, utilities, car insurance, healthcare, dental, medical, vehicle maintenance, property taxes, etc., no mortgage. The total was around $4k/month. I'm sure we could shave off a few Benjamins by cutting back in a few areas, but average life is kind of expensive.

I hope you don't think this was directed personally at you! lol! I just re-read it - sorry! I mean "YOU" as in "EVERYMAN".

Nope, not at all. I haven't worked in an office setting for about 5+ years. I don't know if I could ever go back. And heaven forbid I'd be the same age (mid 50's) as some of you old farts.

[M249Gunner]

Does anyone in that community commute to work?

[mudflap]

so now you're an office rat, in your mid 50's, wondering why you can't live in the country. It sucks. I've been there.

We are debt free. Just this past week we ran the base family budget w/ the kids. I'm talking food, utilities, car insurance, healthcare, dental, medical, vehicle maintenance, property taxes, etc., no mortgage. The total was around $4k/month. I'm sure we could shave off a few Benjamins by cutting back in a few areas, but average life is kind of expensive.

I hope you don't think this was directed personally at you! lol! I just re-read it - sorry! I mean "YOU" as in "EVERYMAN".

Nope, not at all. I haven't worked in an office setting for about 5+ years. I don't know if I could ever go back. And heaven forbid I'd be the same age (mid 50's) as some of you old farts.

not quite there yet, but I'm getting close. The life crisis I was supposed to have in my 40's where I buy a sports car didn't happen. I bought a chainsaw and a tractor instead....

[mudflap]

That place would be more appealing if it had an airport.

of course the guy with an airplane as his profile pic would say this, lol.


But I think it's an excellent idea- they'd need fuel, though....

[technomagus]

I have visited Riverbed Ranch in Juab county. I think it's a great concept, just poor location. I would love to see this idea duplicated in say, TN, where water is abundant. The access is not good. 45 miles on a poor dirt road, much of it on BLM. That's hard on a vehicle. You have to go slow. And hope you don't run into car trouble. I would not not want to have a emergency health problem or have to travel in the middle of winter there. I have a couple acres in Cedar City, on the same kind of land (rabbit brush and sage), and am a 15 minutes drive from the freeway, Walmart, Home Depot, and Hospital or doc's office.
There are trade offs everywhere.

When we did our well 10 years ago it cost me $15K for 350'. That included a pump and pressure tank as well as wiring and plumbing. My bet is that cost is double now. And the water has to be heavily filtered. (lots of clay) I can't imagine having a well that's only 20' down. That would be pretty amazing!

[M249Gunner]

I have visited Riverbed Ranch in Juab county. I think it's a great concept, just poor location. I would love to see this idea duplicated in say, TN, where water is abundant. The access is not good. 45 miles on a poor dirt road, much of it on BLM. That's hard on a vehicle. You have to go slow. And hope you don't run into car trouble. I would not not want to have a emergency health problem or have to travel in the middle of winter there. I have a couple acres in Cedar City, on the same kind of land (rabbit brush and sage), and am a 15 minutes drive from the freeway, Walmart, Home Depot, and Hospital or doc's office.
There are trade offs everywhere.

When we did our well 10 years ago it cost me $15K for 350'. That included a pump and pressure tank as well as wiring and plumbing. My bet is that cost is double now. And the water has to be heavily filtered. (lots of clay) I can't imagine having a well that's only 20' down. That would be pretty amazing!

Two more good reasons for a landing strip and fuel dispenser.

[Will1]

Lots of questions. Well cost ran approximately 23000, now it's about 27000. Taxes yes but we have an agriculture exemption. Solar setup is between 20 and 35k on average. I commute for work. But my expenses are low. I raise rabbits and we are having success with growing food. I am growing jerusalem artichokes. I have cabbage growing in the middle of the summer. I will try to post a few pictures.

[Will1]

The roads are not great, but drivable. Many have gotten flat tires. Usually when people go to fast. How do I post pictures???

[Will1]

Wells run from 165 to 240 feet.

[Will1]

The location is perfect. Growing in the desert has been a challenge but many of us are doing it. Something about the desert blossoming like a rose comes to mind. The plus side. We have awesome neighbors. We have many challenges. I grew spinach in my greenhouse in February, in Alkine soil. It grew Amazingly well. If anyone knows about spinach. That doesn't happen.

[Will1]

The thing I love about the location is when things get difficult. No one is going to run to the desert.
The walking distance will take someone from the larger cities a week on foot and there is little to no water, unless you know where to look.

[Will1]

Welcome. (back) You need to respond with Mudflap who is currently building a cabin.

very cool!

@Will1 How did you do it debt free?
any pictures of the place you'd like to share?
where do you guys go to church - is there a branch or a ward or what?
can you build whatever kind of home you want on your land?
Is it your land (do you get a title)? and could you sell it later?
do you need a job for income outside of just farming?
Is the school up and running? medical?
how do you pay for services / repairs / replacement parts for your solar, for example?
What about retirement when you're too old to work - will they take care of you? some kind of retirement fund?

I'm finishing up stubbing in plumbing on mine (3.7 acres), rough-in electrical pretty much done. Not in a co-op - but the idea is intriguing. Alabama won't let you go 100% off-grid for now if you are within city limits, and they charge you some kind of electrical fee (illegal, IMO) if you want to do solar, but I think they might change that soon. Hooking up to city sewer/utilities was cheaper than septic, but we could go septic in the future - we planned our build-site to do either.

From the riverbed ranch website - "2 acres with water for $30k" isn't a bad deal in Utah. not bad at all - last I looked, a 1/4 acre in Layton was $40k. why would you live in Layton when you could have 8 times the land for less and not pay ridiculous water fees? lol....

I sold our home and used the equity.
Type of homes we have a variety of different homes going up. And some unique structures
School? the moms out there are amazing and are creating a coop for that.
Retirement, we look after our own so far so good.
We have a volunteer fire department.
Medical. We have some things in place.
I also have 4 1/2 acre feet of water rights.
Replacement parts? We can get by for now.

[mudflap]

seriously look into www.lhba.com for a house if you haven't already started on something: They are cheap to build, you can do it yourself with no experience in construction, and with simple hand tools like pulleys and levers, you'll end up with an extremely durable, long lasting home. And no mortgage. I'm doing mine for about $20 / sq ft - that's a lot cheaper than even a framed home. We designed our own floor plan, but kept all the structural elements from the plans - building department approve the plans the same day. With large logs, you'll have an extremely efficient home as well.

Check out the "log cabins" thread on this forum - probably this post has the most photos of the process: viewtopic.php?p=1275792#p1275792

But best wishes for whatever you do - I think it's awesome, looking forward to pictures / updates / whatever - anything you want to tell us about your experience.

[mudflap]

The thing I love about the location is when things get difficult. No one is going to run to the desert.
The walking distance will take someone from the larger cities a week on foot and there is little to no water, unless you know where to look.

This is key.

[Will1]

seriously look into www.lhba.com for a house if you haven't already started on something: They are cheap to build, you can do it yourself with no experience in construction, and with simple hand tools like pulleys and levers, you'll end up with an extremely durable, long lasting home. And no mortgage. I'm doing mine for about $20 / sq ft - that's a lot cheaper than even a framed home. We designed our own floor plan, but kept all the structural elements from the plans - building department approve the plans the same day. With large logs, you'll have an extremely efficient home as well.

Check out the "log cabins" thread on this forum - probably this post has the most photos of the process: viewtopic.php?p=1275792#p1275792

But best wishes for whatever you do - I think it's awesome, looking forward to pictures / updates / whatever - anything you want to tell us about your experience.

Earthbag. We are starting with our barn

[mudflap]

seriously look into www.lhba.com for a house if you haven't already started on something: They are cheap to build, you can do it yourself with no experience in construction, and with simple hand tools like pulleys and levers, you'll end up with an extremely durable, long lasting home. And no mortgage. I'm doing mine for about $20 / sq ft - that's a lot cheaper than even a framed home. We designed our own floor plan, but kept all the structural elements from the plans - building department approve the plans the same day. With large logs, you'll have an extremely efficient home as well.

Check out the "log cabins" thread on this forum - probably this post has the most photos of the process: viewtopic.php?p=1275792#p1275792

But best wishes for whatever you do - I think it's awesome, looking forward to pictures / updates / whatever - anything you want to tell us about your experience.

Earthbag. We are starting with our barn

I looked into Earthbag when I was first contemplating building my own home. They are extremely efficient. Thinking more about your location, an earthbag home makes a lot of sense - can't imagine an 18 wheeler loaded with 100K lbs of logs navigating those roads out to your place!

so yeah, looking forward to updates.

[Mala_Suerte]

Welcome. (back) You need to respond with Mudflap who is currently building a cabin.

very cool!

@Will1 How did you do it debt free?
any pictures of the place you'd like to share?
where do you guys go to church - is there a branch or a ward or what?
can you build whatever kind of home you want on your land?
Is it your land (do you get a title)? and could you sell it later?
do you need a job for income outside of just farming?
Is the school up and running? medical?
how do you pay for services / repairs / replacement parts for your solar, for example?
What about retirement when you're too old to work - will they take care of you? some kind of retirement fund?

I'm finishing up stubbing in plumbing on mine (3.7 acres), rough-in electrical pretty much done. Not in a co-op - but the idea is intriguing. Alabama won't let you go 100% off-grid for now if you are within city limits, and they charge you some kind of electrical fee (illegal, IMO) if you want to do solar, but I think they might change that soon. Hooking up to city sewer/utilities was cheaper than septic, but we could go septic in the future - we planned our build-site to do either.

From the riverbed ranch website - "2 acres with water for $30k" isn't a bad deal in Utah. not bad at all - last I looked, a 1/4 acre in Layton was $40k. why would you live in Layton when you could have 8 times the land for less and not pay ridiculous water fees? lol....

I sold our home and used the equity.
Type of homes we have a variety of different homes going up. And some unique structures
School? the moms out there are amazing and are creating a coop for that.
Retirement, we look after our own so far so good.
We have a volunteer fire department.
Medical. We have some things in place.
I also have 4 1/2 acre feet of water rights.
Replacement parts? We can get by for now.

Is your water from a canal or creek? Are you storing the water? Can you grow your garden w/o the water? These are some of the questions I've asked myself as we look at property.

[Will1]

Water comes from our well. I have a 3500 gallon water tank. I Store water as well in several ibc totes to water at night. It helps. We are in the desert. No creek or canal. We do have plenty of water. Two mountains on both sides of us catch a massive amount of water when it rains. We have a nice underground reservoir. We have been getting plenty of moisture.

[FreedomWorks]

That place would be more appealing if it had an airport.

My lot at Riverbed Ranch is the 2nd to the last in the Southeast corner.
Pilot named David owns the lot next to mine.
He plans on building a hanger and using BLM land just outside our fence for an airstrip.
And we also have a designated campground with shower/bathrooms under construction.

[FreedomWorks]

I host a live Q&A Zoom call most Wednesday nights at 8pm Mountain Time
where you can ask your questions about Riverbed Ranch, and,
hear what others are wondering about.

Here's the link: https://bit.ly/Wed-Zoom

[tmac]

I have visited Riverbed Ranch in Juab county. I think it's a great concept, just poor location. I would love to see this idea duplicated in say, TN, where water is abundant. The access is not good. 45 miles on a poor dirt road, much of it on BLM. That's hard on a vehicle. You have to go slow. And hope you don't run into car trouble. I would not not want to have a emergency health problem or have to travel in the middle of winter there. I have a couple acres in Cedar City, on the same kind of land (rabbit brush and sage), and am a 15 minutes drive from the freeway, Walmart, Home Depot, and Hospital or doc's office.
There are trade offs everywhere.

When we did our well 10 years ago it cost me $15K for 350'. That included a pump and pressure tank as well as wiring and plumbing. My bet is that cost is double now. And the water has to be heavily filtered. (lots of clay) I can't imagine having a well that's only 20' down. That would be pretty amazing!

I love the concept of Riverbed Ranch community too. I have been there plenty of times, including multiple times before there was any twinkle in anyone's eye about it becoming a self-sufficient desert community.

With a full life-time of deep experience with this subject matter, including spending almost my entire life in rural areas of the West, and building a ranch from scratch, etc., all I can say is that Riverbed is not a location that I would ever choose. I'm not saying they can't make it work, but in terms of quantity and quality of available natural resources (including water, soil, firewood, etc., etc.) and the productive capacity of the land and resources, it would not be my choice. But, I have a serious, practical production-orientation, and am interested in an entirely different level of production than would ever be reasonably possible at Riverbed (and I am well-acquainted with several prior owner/operators who failed trying to make that happen).

Although, at this point, we are looking at yet another strategic relocation, to take an even bigger bite at the production agriculture apple, where we are currently located, we have a solid year-round creek, a good well, ample firewood, and much better soil. It's all comparatively relative. Compared to what some people have and/or are used to, Riverbed might seem very attractive. For us, based on our current location and situation, and in comparison to that, Riverbed would be a very hard sell.

Having said all of that, although we are quite satisfied with our property, etc., we have grown increasingly dissatisfied and disconcerted about the evolving, consumption-oriented community that we are increasingly surrounded by. So that is something about Riverbeds that might be more attractive. But I've never been convinced that there are really many people out there who actually have all that much experience with and/or know that much about what they are trying to do -- which is something of a paradox.

[solonan]

But digging a well is not more than $5k - this is a valley location - most areas in the USA have water @ 20' below the surface. Even at $65 / ft, that's $1300. Even if you figure all the bells and whistles, most folks can get a well put in for under $10k.

Most wells where I live are over 200', and I live in the valley. Last I heard the average cost to dig a well was $30-40k.

Dang! You don't so happen to live in Arizona do you? That what i've been quoted. In fact last checked it will be closer to $65k because we live on a freaking hill