LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

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Rubicon
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Rubicon »

We had the missionaries live with us for 6-9 months (informally) back in 2003. Technically, it was against church rules (we had small children in the home, and they had one of the bedrooms but not their own entrance).

This was a small town of 3000 that has boomed to 80,000 in 20 years. They were in another city, but weren't given enough mileage (they never are, because the Church wants the keep the mileage down for max resale value). Our ward mission leader (a former mission president in S. America) wouldn't work with them and wouldn't help with the housing situation, and we were new. I went with them a lot,and got to know the area (lots of square miles in a rural area) well. It was a great blessing for our family to have them with us during that time.

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Thinker
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Thinker »

Rubicon wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 9:26 pm We had the missionaries live with us for 6-9 months (informally) back in 2003. Technically, it was against church rules (we had small children in the home, and they had one of the bedrooms but not their own entrance).
... It was a great blessing for our family to have them with us during that time.
What if one of them abused your children - with such easy access? Inviting unknown strange men at their peak sexual horniness into your home with children is not looking out for your children. But of course the cult comes first.

On a lighter note…
If Mormon moms were honest:
https://youtu.be/H8SL3jsJgZY

Church_of_the_Lamb
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Church_of_the_Lamb »

Artaxerxes wrote: August 1st, 2022, 8:57 am
layer8prob@gmail.com wrote: August 1st, 2022, 1:19 am
Artaxerxes wrote: July 31st, 2022, 7:24 pm
layer8prob@gmail.com wrote: July 30th, 2022, 8:48 am Specifically, the idea that a family in good standing with the Church should be expected to pay $500 a month in addition to 10% of their income plus fast offerings is ridiculous for an organization that has 150 billion dollars at it's disposal. This is a travesty, especially when you consider how poor missionaries are and that they barely.scrape by.

Honestly as I get older and see things more clearly I think the way the Church treats it's young missionaries is awful. The fact that their families are expected to pay out of pocket for that experience is equally awful for such a wealthy church.
"I'm entitled to someone else's money!" is a persistent modern refrain. It's never persuasive. Even less so when we're talking about God's money.
Like how Church leadership think they're entitled to everyone else's tithe money and then hide it from the membership? Because they don't pay tithing but get a the perks. Also I'm pretty sure "the Lord's money" is actually coming from regular tithe payers. God doesn't need money.
They do pay tithing, sorry to burst your made up bubble.

God considers it His money: "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings."
The "man" in that scriptures is the Priests....Malachi needs to be read as all 3 chapters together

Artaxerxes
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Artaxerxes »

Church_of_the_Lamb wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:26 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: August 1st, 2022, 8:57 am
layer8prob@gmail.com wrote: August 1st, 2022, 1:19 am
Artaxerxes wrote: July 31st, 2022, 7:24 pm

"I'm entitled to someone else's money!" is a persistent modern refrain. It's never persuasive. Even less so when we're talking about God's money.
Like how Church leadership think they're entitled to everyone else's tithe money and then hide it from the membership? Because they don't pay tithing but get a the perks. Also I'm pretty sure "the Lord's money" is actually coming from regular tithe payers. God doesn't need money.
They do pay tithing, sorry to burst your made up bubble.

God considers it His money: "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings."
The "man" in that scriptures is the Priests....Malachi needs to be read as all 3 chapters together
Okay. Let's read it all together. Let's starts at the beginning:
"1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi."

Rubicon
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Rubicon »

Thinker wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:41 pm What if one of them abused your children - with such easy access? Inviting unknown strange men at their peak sexual horniness into your home with children is not looking out for your children. But of course the cult comes first.
We weighed that theoretical possibility when we considered it, and if it had happened, it would have been on us as parents, as you point out. Still, we felt that we should do it, and we feel that we were greatly blessed because of it. And, no child abuse occurred, hard as it might be to believe.

CMajor
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by CMajor »

The Church needs to hide these funds from the members knowledge because if we knew about the $150 Billion, we might STOP PAYING tithing.

It was an emeritus GA, who let it out that GA's don't have to pay tithing from their yearly salary of $120K, so the old scriptural sign that the true church would not have a paid clergy is now not part of the list of "signs"

Rubicon
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Rubicon »

CMajor wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 9:04 pm The Church needs to hide these funds from the members knowledge because if we knew about the $150 Billion, we might STOP PAYING tithing.

It was an emeritus GA, who let it out that GA's don't have to pay tithing from their yearly salary of $120K, so the old scriptural sign that the true church would not have a paid clergy is now not part of the list of "signs"
Citation, please.

The leaked information from President Eyring (which, to my knowledge, is the only information that we have on the $120,000 figure), showed that he pays 10% tithing. On the gross.

What emeritus GA? When did he say this? Where did he say this?

I don't think any such statement exists. I think the evidence that we have is that the Brethren still pay 10% tithing on their salary. As they should.

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gruden2.0
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by gruden2.0 »

If the church was smart, they would offer a program similar to what many large universities are doing which would provide scholarships essentially to pay a portion or even the entirety of missionary expenses to those with parents below certain income thresholds. This would allow them to potentially increase the number of missionaries, bringing in young people who might otherwise pass due to financial reasons. They could flood the world with missionaries from impoverished countries with more zeal than money.

CMajor
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by CMajor »

Ernest Bushe at his home, while an emeritus 70. I know 4 separate people who heard him reveal these things, it was a turnoff for Busch. The church was grooming him to be an Apostle from Germany. The new apostles get a $1 million bonus, to pay off debts and such. They told him he could invest in land in the Bountiful area where a future temple would be built so as to make extra money when land values skyrocket after the announcement. But again he wanted no part of it.

Maybe you should check in and see who owns the land where new temples are announced.

Senkyoshi
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Senkyoshi »

CMajor wrote: September 26th, 2022, 1:06 pm Ernest Bushe at his home, while an emeritus 70. I know 4 separate people who heard him reveal these things, it was a turnoff for Busch. The church was grooming him to be an Apostle from Germany. The new apostles get a $1 million bonus, to pay off debts and such. They told him he could invest in land in the Bountiful area where a future temple would be built so as to make extra money when land values skyrocket after the announcement. But again he wanted no part of it.

Maybe you should check in and see who owns the land where new temples are announced.
So... secondhand hearsay?

AZRob
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by AZRob »

CMajor wrote: September 26th, 2022, 1:06 pm Ernest Bushe at his home, while an emeritus 70. I know 4 separate people who heard him reveal these things, it was a turnoff for Busch. The church was grooming him to be an Apostle from Germany. The new apostles get a $1 million bonus, to pay off debts and such. They told him he could invest in land in the Bountiful area where a future temple would be built so as to make extra money when land values skyrocket after the announcement. But again he wanted no part of it.

Maybe you should check in and see who owns the land where new temples are announced.
Did you mean the late F. Enzio Busche? I'd like some secondhand hearsay myself but my search engine skills haven't produced anything yet ...

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Mindfields
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Mindfields »

"secondhand hearsay" isn't the problem, it's just a by product of the actual problem. The complete lack of financial transparency from the church leaders is the problem. If the brethren were just upfront and forthcoming about everything in regards to church finances we wouldn't have to speculate and rely on hearsay information.

EvanLM
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by EvanLM »

Thinker wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:41 pm
Rubicon wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 9:26 pm We had the missionaries live with us for 6-9 months (informally) back in 2003. Technically, it was against church rules (we had small children in the home, and they had one of the bedrooms but not their own entrance).
... It was a great blessing for our family to have them with us during that time.
What if one of them abused your children - with such easy access? Inviting unknown strange men at their peak sexual horniness into your home with children is not looking out for your children. But of course the cult comes first.

On a lighter note…
If Mormon moms were honest:
https://youtu.be/H8SL3jsJgZY
this abuse can happen anywhere. I taught my boys at a young age to not let anyone touch certain parts on their body and about modesty and abuse without having to teach the birds and bees yet.

Your idea that one can protect themself by knowing who to avoid or keeping themself from everyone is not fair. Our kids need to trust anyone who does not abuse them and scream and shout over those who do.

The best way for a kid to protect themself is to be taught what is right and wrong and what they should do if they are threatened.

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HereWeGo
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by HereWeGo »

AZRob wrote: September 26th, 2022, 2:58 pm
CMajor wrote: September 26th, 2022, 1:06 pm Ernest Bushe at his home, while an emeritus 70. I know 4 separate people who heard him reveal these things, it was a turnoff for Busch. The church was grooming him to be an Apostle from Germany. The new apostles get a $1 million bonus, to pay off debts and such. They told him he could invest in land in the Bountiful area where a future temple would be built so as to make extra money when land values skyrocket after the announcement. But again he wanted no part of it.

Maybe you should check in and see who owns the land where new temples are announced.
Did you mean the late F. Enzio Busche? I'd like some secondhand hearsay myself but my search engine skills haven't produced anything yet ...
I know it may not help TBMs to accept this but one of my neighbors was friends with Enzio and another neighbor was his relative. They both knew these things.

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Thinker
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Re: LDS Missions should not cost a dime.

Post by Thinker »

EvanLM wrote: September 26th, 2022, 8:09 pm
Thinker wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:41 pm
Rubicon wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 9:26 pm We had the missionaries live with us for 6-9 months (informally) back in 2003. Technically, it was against church rules (we had small children in the home, and they had one of the bedrooms but not their own entrance).
... It was a great blessing for our family to have them with us during that time.
What if one of them abused your children - with such easy access? Inviting unknown strange men at their peak sexual horniness into your home with children is not looking out for your children. But of course the cult comes first.

On a lighter note…
If Mormon moms were honest:
https://youtu.be/H8SL3jsJgZY
this abuse can happen anywhere. I taught my boys at a young age to not let anyone touch certain parts on their body and about modesty and abuse without having to teach the birds and bees yet.

Your idea that one can protect themself by knowing who to avoid or keeping themself from everyone is not fair. Our kids need to trust anyone who does not abuse them and scream and shout over those who do.

The best way for a kid to protect themself is to be taught what is right and wrong and what they should do if they are threatened.
What I was saying, is opening your home to strangers - men - who have access to your kids - is a bad idea. The principle of putting a cult - or even emotions - above the safety of children is concerning. The church has a rule of separate entrance for missionaries - for a reason. He broke that rule & exposed his children to risks of being harmed - all for what? What is more important than his responsibility as a father to protect his children?

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