Joseph Smith's photo discovered
- Niemand
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
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Last edited by Niemand on July 24th, 2022, 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Niemand
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Amazing how he dances over much more obvious issues:SmallFarm wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 12:43 pmkittycat51 wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 11:18 pm Joseph was only 38 when he died…I don’t know but that photo looks older than 38? The one that blitzenstripes posted is more believable.
* People used to do more manual work.
* Spend more time outside, were less sedentary.
* Went through wars, famines and rationing.
* Didn't use so many beauty products
* Would have lost many teeth.
By Joseph Smith's final age, people like him would have lost many teeth, had a lot of work and stress etc. This is a man who worked fields, spent tine in jail, travelled big distances (and not in a car/train/plane etc like today)
- Niemand
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Yes, that checks out...
It certainly looks like how I imagine the older Smith, but that man is also very tall. See the chair and body proportions for comparison. I don't think Joseph was that much of a giant.
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
I'm still waiting around for that inevitable one guy to show up and try to tell us that we all have a biased Caucasian view of Joseph Smith and that Joseph was assuredly a person of color. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I'm just weary of the recent constant obsession with it.
- Niemand
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Clearly him, note the brown hair, suit, and the fact he has a head, two arms and two legs.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 5:17 pm I'm still waiting around for that inevitable one guy to show up and try to tell us that we all have a biased Caucasian view of Joseph Smith and that Joseph was assuredly a person of color. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I'm just weary of the recent constant obsession with it.
19375b00060831d0cd23648ca78b441e--young-black-black-man.jpg
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
And, hey. The ladies were right. That's one handsome dude.Niemand wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 pmClearly him, note the brown hair, suit, and the fact he has a head, two arms and two legs.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 5:17 pm I'm still waiting around for that inevitable one guy to show up and try to tell us that we all have a biased Caucasian view of Joseph Smith and that Joseph was assuredly a person of color. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I'm just weary of the recent constant obsession with it.
19375b00060831d0cd23648ca78b441e--young-black-black-man.jpg
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
joseph may have a slight turned-up chin(protruding (lower) jaw) .. looks death mask was very well constructed ..
"A side view of the Dibble death mask of Joseph Smith Jr. Credit: Church History Library, Church History Library"
https://www.thechurchnews.com/history-r ... -hyrum-749
https://latterdaysaintmag.com/hidden-th ... look-like/
profile "joseph smith jr."
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 2&ei=UTF-8
Le Fort I fracture lines 骨折
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 8&ei=UTF-8
"A side view of the Dibble death mask of Joseph Smith Jr. Credit: Church History Library, Church History Library"
https://www.thechurchnews.com/history-r ... -hyrum-749
https://latterdaysaintmag.com/hidden-th ... look-like/
profile "joseph smith jr."
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 2&ei=UTF-8
Le Fort I fracture lines 骨折
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 8&ei=UTF-8
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
I thought the man in the picture looked older too. But then Joseph Smith had a hard life, maybe he aged faster?OPMissionary wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 7:55 am Looks less a boy and more a man than we're accustomed to imagining. Honestly the guy in the picture looks older than 38. I think I'm skeptical. Other daguerreotypes and paintings don't match this picture. Though either way, he was clearly a handsome man with presence.
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Had many encounters with him, and this is what he looks like. Whether the photo is authentic or not this is a very accurate depiction of what he looks like. Can’t prove it to you, but I know that’s what he looks like.kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 10:33 amI'm curious why you think so? (honest question)DJB wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 amThat IS Joseph Smith! I know for sure 100%marc wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 3:25 pm Mormon founder Joseph Smith's photo discovered by descendant after nearly 180 years
- oneClimbs
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Here's my take on it, with some other details the articles don't include: https://oneclimbs.com/2022/07/23/new-ph ... this-time/
Here's a video I made overlaying the photo with the death mask. Pretty compelling: https://odysee.com/@oneclimbs:f/jsphotomask:2
Here's a video I made overlaying the photo with the death mask. Pretty compelling: https://odysee.com/@oneclimbs:f/jsphotomask:2
- mike_rumble
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Unless it's been photoshopped, the small crease above and to the left of the nose, is a good argument in favor of the photo being authentic. You can see that same small crease in the famous painting of the Prophet. I don't know what the odds are of someone else having that same facial characteristic are. The known history of the locket seems to fit as does the kind of locket and photos that existed in Joseph's day. The biggest mark against it being authentic is that the photo has been copyrighted. Don't know why you would do this except to make money. It would be nice if our inspired Prophet spoke out about it (the Church apparently offered a somewhat neutral opinion), but that hasn't worked out in the past. Salamander Letters anyone?
- Niemand
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
The provenance is not bad on this, but I'm not convinced.oneClimbs wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 11:48 am Here's my take on it, with some other details the articles don't include: https://oneclimbs.com/2022/07/23/new-ph ... this-time/
Here's a video I made overlaying the photo with the death mask. Pretty compelling: https://odysee.com/@oneclimbs:f/jsphotomask:2
The other angle would be looking at confirmed photographs of Joseph Smith's close relatives.
Joseph Smith III (son)
Comment: JS was noted for his eyes, and his son certainly has striking eyes which may be similar to his father's, although he looks different from portrayals of his father in other ways.
JSIII (son) again, younger.
Frederick M. Smith (grandson)
Comment: Doesn't look like most portrayals of his grandfather although the cast of his nose and eyes may be similar.
Alexander Hale Smith (son)
Comment: Doesn't seem to look much like his father at all?
David Hyrum Smith (son)
Comment: Not seeing much resemblance here either but the sons do seem to have similar noses
Frederick G.W. Smith (son)
Comment: Died 25, but has striking eyes again. Looks closest to the new photo
Israel A. Smith (grandson)
Comment: More prominent forehead?
William B. Smith (brother)
W. Wallace Smith (grandson)
Comment: Weaker chin?
Elbert A. Smith (grandson)
Frederick A. Smith (grandson)
Comment: Fuller face but striking eyes
- Cruiserdude
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Wow. I appreciate your testimony of this and willingness to share it.DJB wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 9:05 amHad many encounters with him, and this is what he looks like. Whether the photo is authentic or not this is a very accurate depiction of what he looks like. Can’t prove it to you, but I know that’s what he looks like.kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 10:33 amI'm curious why you think so? (honest question)DJB wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 amThat IS Joseph Smith! I know for sure 100%marc wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 3:25 pm Mormon founder Joseph Smith's photo discovered by descendant after nearly 180 years
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
I concur. My heart jumped when I saw his picture.DJB wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 9:05 amHad many encounters with him, and this is what he looks like. Whether the photo is authentic or not this is a very accurate depiction of what he looks like. Can’t prove it to you, but I know that’s what he looks like.kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 10:33 amI'm curious why you think so? (honest question)DJB wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 amThat IS Joseph Smith! I know for sure 100%marc wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 3:25 pm Mormon founder Joseph Smith's photo discovered by descendant after nearly 180 years
- Niemand
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Yes, it's a definite case of working out which features run in which families.
The younger JSIII has resemblances to Emma. The older JSIII seems to have similar eyes to a famous portrait
The eyes on this portrait resemble some of his relatives - piercing without being menacing
David Hyrum Smith (son)
Frederick A. Smith (grandson) - as I say above, the face is largely different but he seems to have the family eyes.
Eyewitness descriptions
“He was rather large in stature, some six feet two inches in height, well built, though a little stoop shouldered, prominent and well developed features, a roman nose, light chestnut hair, upper lip full and rather protruding, chin broad and square, and eagle eyed, and there was something in his manner that was bewitching and winning.”
—John D. Lee
His hair was of a flaxen color. He wore no whiskers. His chin was a little tipped [forward]; his nose was long and straight; his mouth narrow, and his upper lip rather long and a little inclined to be thick. He had a large chest and intelligent eyes….”
—James Palmer
“President Joseph Smith was in person tall and well built, strong and active; of light complexion, light hair, blue eyes, very little beard, and of an expression peculiar to himself, on which the eye naturally rested with interest, and was never weary of beholding. His countenance was ever mild, affable, beaming with intelligence and benevolence; mingled with a look of interest and an unconscious smile, or cheerfulness... and there was something connected with the serene and steady penetrating glance of his eye, as if he would penetrate the deepest abyss of the human heart, gaze into eternity, penetrate the heavens, and comprehend all worlds.”
—Parley P. Pratt
.“[He] is a large, stout man, youthful in appearance, with light complexion and hair, and blue eyes set far back in the head, and expressing great shrewdness, or should I say cunning. He has a large head…. He is also very round shouldered.”
—Charlotte Haven
____
“His forehead is white, without furrow, and notwithstanding the small facial angle, somewhat symmetrical. His hair is quite light and fine—complexion pale—cheeks full-temperament evidently sanguine —lips thin rather than thick, and by no means indicative of boldness or decision of character.
“But the Prophet’s most remarkable feature is his eye; not that it is very large, or very bright—very thoughtful or very restless—even very deep in its expression or location; for it is usually neither of these. The hue is light hazel, and is shaded, and at times, almost veiled, by the longest, thickest light lashes you ever saw belonging to a man whatever the facts respecting the ‘dear ladies.’
“The brows are, also, light and thick—indeed, precisely of that description called beetle-brow. The expression of the Prophet’s eyes when half closed and shaded by their long lashes was quite as crafty as I ever beheld...
“His smile, which is frequent, is agreeable.”
—Reporter for the St Louis Weekly Gazette
https://theology.science.blog/2020/10/2 ... look-like/
Their reconstruction
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
I read the story, why are you bringing polygamy up because of this?BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 3:36 pm I don’t buy it. This is part of efforts that will certainly come to attempt to undercut monogamist Joseph views. They had about 150 years where the overwhelming view of Joseph affirmed the official story to produce DNA linking offspring to him from polygamous marriages and they were unable to
If they produce DNA offspring “evidence” now that people are questioning the official narrative, you can be certain it’s lies to protect the establishment story
Edit: maybe it’s true but I still think lies to hurt his character will come in the future and I think Mormon history is filled with conspiracy and lies
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 6:35 pmI read the story, why are you bringing polygamy up because of this?BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 3:36 pm I don’t buy it. This is part of efforts that will certainly come to attempt to undercut monogamist Joseph views. They had about 150 years where the overwhelming view of Joseph affirmed the official story to produce DNA linking offspring to him from polygamous marriages and they were unable to
If they produce DNA offspring “evidence” now that people are questioning the official narrative, you can be certain it’s lies to protect the establishment story
Edit: maybe it’s true but I still think lies to hurt his character will come in the future and I think Mormon history is filled with conspiracy and lies
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 6:11 pm
I’m weary of profound discoveries made after so long, being authentic and real rather than attempts to deceive and or protect stories for an exceptionally wealthy institution, particularly with the history of lies and contradicting stories in Mormon history
On the note of contradiction for example, this image is believed to come from a locket Emma kept until passing. Brigham says Emma tried to poison and murder Joseph. I believe love can get crazy but how can both of these things be true? How do you reconcile Brigham’s declaration that Emma tried to kill Joseph and Joseph rebuked her in front of a bunch of men and the belief this locket with a pic of Joseph is something that Emma kept with her till she passed?
There are so many contradicting stories, statements and agendas fighting for claims of authority in the mess of Mormon history and the modern day prophets, seers and revelators have proven they don’t have the sort of connection and relationship with God to communicate with him over authenticity concerns (see the fake Joseph Smith III blessing and fake salamander letter).
So I’m cautious of believing ground breaking material due to a past of lies, contradictions, conspiracy (in my opinion) and leaders proven to be less than they claim to be
I think this might be real though.
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 8:16 pm
It's what a fake picture that becomes accepted as truth suggests could be done with other fake information in the future. I think it is odd that after all this time this has been discovered, particularly in the matter it was discovered (nobody ever dared look into the locket until now? It says Emma gave it to a number of people to hold onto. No one thought 'hey, this is Joseph, we should let people see what he looked like'). I question its authenticity. If it's not real, then it's some sort of lie put out there. That is deceptive. If this isn't sincerely Joseph, you have institutions throwing it out there and telling you it's Joseph and their studies overwhelmingly suggest its authentic. Would future lies be released? Could those future lies seek to frustrate getting to the truth of Mormonism by building up the lies of Mormonism? That's all I'm getting at. If this picture is real, great. If it's a deceptive lie that people accept, what future lies sent out for deception may we come across?
Maybe I'm just paranoid
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Maybe, many women try to kill their husbands and some succeed. Doesn’t mean they don’t love them. Your paranoia is warranted but to tie a pic to polygamy tells me you are emotionally connected to your opinion about polygamy.BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 6:43 pmBronco73idi wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 6:35 pmI read the story, why are you bringing polygamy up because of this?BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 3:36 pm I don’t buy it. This is part of efforts that will certainly come to attempt to undercut monogamist Joseph views. They had about 150 years where the overwhelming view of Joseph affirmed the official story to produce DNA linking offspring to him from polygamous marriages and they were unable to
If they produce DNA offspring “evidence” now that people are questioning the official narrative, you can be certain it’s lies to protect the establishment story
Edit: maybe it’s true but I still think lies to hurt his character will come in the future and I think Mormon history is filled with conspiracy and liesBuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 6:11 pm
I’m weary of profound discoveries made after so long, being authentic and real rather than attempts to deceive and or protect stories for an exceptionally wealthy institution, particularly with the history of lies and contradicting stories in Mormon history
On the note of contradiction for example, this image is believed to come from a locket Emma kept until passing. Brigham says Emma tried to poison and murder Joseph. I believe love can get crazy but how can both of these things be true? How do you reconcile Brigham’s declaration that Emma tried to kill Joseph and Joseph rebuked her in front of a bunch of men and the belief this locket with a pic of Joseph is something that Emma kept with her till she passed?
There are so many contradicting stories, statements and agendas fighting for claims of authority in the mess of Mormon history and the modern day prophets, seers and revelators have proven they don’t have the sort of connection and relationship with God to communicate with him over authenticity concerns (see the fake Joseph Smith III blessing and fake salamander letter).
So I’m cautious of believing ground breaking material due to a past of lies, contradictions, conspiracy (in my opinion) and leaders proven to be less than they claim to be
I think this might be real though.
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑July 21st, 2022, 8:16 pm
It's what a fake picture that becomes accepted as truth suggests could be done with other fake information in the future. I think it is odd that after all this time this has been discovered, particularly in the matter it was discovered (nobody ever dared look into the locket until now? It says Emma gave it to a number of people to hold onto. No one thought 'hey, this is Joseph, we should let people see what he looked like'). I question its authenticity. If it's not real, then it's some sort of lie put out there. That is deceptive. If this isn't sincerely Joseph, you have institutions throwing it out there and telling you it's Joseph and their studies overwhelmingly suggest its authentic. Would future lies be released? Could those future lies seek to frustrate getting to the truth of Mormonism by building up the lies of Mormonism? That's all I'm getting at. If this picture is real, great. If it's a deceptive lie that people accept, what future lies sent out for deception may we come across?
Maybe I'm just paranoid
We should be like the dust of the earth, easily moveable by our creator.
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
I don’t look like my dad, I take after my Mom and Grandfather. I don’t look like any of the “Reeds” and neither do my kids. Stronger genes on the other side. Maybe here too.Niemand wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 12:39 pmThe provenance is not bad on this, but I'm not convinced.oneClimbs wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 11:48 am Here's my take on it, with some other details the articles don't include: https://oneclimbs.com/2022/07/23/new-ph ... this-time/
Here's a video I made overlaying the photo with the death mask. Pretty compelling: https://odysee.com/@oneclimbs:f/jsphotomask:2
The other angle would be looking at confirmed photographs of Joseph Smith's close relatives.
Joseph Smith III (son)
Comment: JS was noted for his eyes, and his son certainly has striking eyes which may be similar to his father's, although he looks different from portrayals of his father in other ways.
JSIII (son) again, younger.
Frederick M. Smith (grandson)
Comment: Doesn't look like most portrayals of his grandfather although the cast of his nose and eyes may be similar.
Alexander Hale Smith (son)
Comment: Doesn't seem to look much like his father at all?
David Hyrum Smith (son)
Comment: Not seeing much resemblance here either but the sons do seem to have similar noses
Frederick G.W. Smith (son)
Comment: Died 25, but has striking eyes again. Looks closest to the new photo
Israel A. Smith (grandson)
Comment: More prominent forehead?
William B. Smith (brother)
W. Wallace Smith (grandson)
Comment: Weaker chin?
Elbert A. Smith (grandson)
Frederick A. Smith (grandson)
Comment: Fuller face but striking eyes
- Cruiserdude
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
That was incredible!!! So tech can actually be useful at timesLynnrd57 wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 8:37 pm Check this out...
https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... &context=3
- Niemand
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
Many people do though. There certainly seem to be one or two common features in that Smith line, certainly some have similar eyes and they share the Roman nose.
So no, they won't all look exactly alike (and don't) but some inherited features do appear.
- DJB
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Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered
So awesome! That smile!! “Millions shall know brother Joseph again”Lynnrd57 wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2022, 8:37 pm Check this out...
https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... &context=3