Joseph Smith's photo discovered

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
dewajack
captain of 100
Posts: 650

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by dewajack »

I think the photo looks a lot like a younger Grant Goodeve.

GeeR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1635

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by GeeR »

Niemand wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 4:02 pm
marc wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 11:14 am The death mask does not necessarily represent a precise depiction. We just don't know what sort of trauma might have caused bumps or bruises by the time he fell out of that two story window. He might have suffered a slightly swollen lip, etc? That mask is only what he looked like at the time the cast was taken, not necessarily what he looked like the day before during supper, for example.
Death masks are different - gravity does part of ot - the lack of bloodflow etc. If you've ever seen a dead person you once knew well, they don't look like they did while alive.
That depends on the embalmer to a great extent. My dad was a mortician and he prided himself on making people look like they were just asleep. My dad told me there is an art to it. I've been to other funerals conducted by other morticians and some of the bodies look absolute horrifying. If the bodies are not asperated correctly they can look bloated or emancipated depending on the skill level of the embalmer. There are hundreds of variables involved in preparing a body for burial.

GeeR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1635

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by GeeR »

I mean emaciated not emancipated.

sushi_chef
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3693
Location: tokyo, jpn

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by sushi_chef »

"We found Bertha Madison Smith's Norwegian Father? 114 回視聴 2022/07/22
Debi's Dive into History

Per the footnotes, the Historians state that Mads Madison was ruled out, but by them- per their opinions, but it was not by the "experts" but by the family, as they did not send a photograph of Mads but the locket image to the FBI artist, they sent just this image and the mask and painting; so if you have copies of this verified photograph of Mads Madison, PLEASE contact me, as I cannot find it on Family Search or on the family blog/website. I still think this is a relative of Bertha. PLEASE, send me this verified image of Mads Madison... I will state one strong argument against is in the report by Dr. Herrod, of seeing a step deformity on the skull (so injuries to the left orbital bone- before death as it was remodeled), and on the death mask (and in the duplicate oil painting, on that painting, which would have been post mortem and had the daguerreotype as an influence.

Joseph Smith gave many of his wives Gold Watches, having read the Johnn Whitmer Historical Society article, “Hidden Things Shall Come to Light: The Visual Image of Joseph Smith Jr.” , the article mentions Emma wearing a gold watch when she married Lewis Bidamon, but not specifically a locket with Joseph Smith's image in it... Mackay is a descendant through Bertha, Dan Larsen is the uncle and also a descendant through Bertha, having read the report, a computer software program and an FBI artist concluded they thought this could be a photograph of Joseph Smith.

The experts are artists, Sean studied graphics and music, in college, Streed is an artist, but I am in frequent contact with forensic experts with PhDs who have written in scientific journals and are writing about another image, and plan to publish soon (the Community of Christ actually knows exactly this...), so I have asked them to analyze it, and if they choose to and or allow to have it shared, I would love that (doubt that they would share it on my youtube channel, but maybe in my dreams they will facetime and give a quick analysis, and give permission to have it shared, I would love that, as I am just... an artist... with a medical background in Executive Medical Assisting... which is WHY I asked them to analyze my CDV, and have already):

Sean Doucette, animetrics, conway new hampshire https://rocketreach.co/sean-doucette-...

Michael W. Streed:

https://www.amazon.com/Creating-Digit...

“The locket shows up on prominent Smith family women through the years,” Mackay said. Bertha Madison Smith, who married one of Joseph Jr. and Emma’s sons [Joseph Smith III who these men are descendants of], wore it in a portrait in 1869. In 1875, a granddaughter wore it in her wedding portrait, in which the locket was hanging from a chain."
https://religionnews.com/2022/07/21/m...

Joseph had "thick eyebrows" and did not have "curly hair" according to the Joseph Smith III, an image bearing a resemblance more the the wife of Joseph Smith III, than to Joseph Smith III, who is the one wearing the locket... more like it's her Papa!!! Plus they have a unique shape to their ears that match, almost perfectly, similar eye shape, both had light THIN EYEBROWS and BOTH HAVE CURLY HAIR! Both from Norway...

12 件のコメント

HydeHouse
1 日前(編集済み)
Ah ha! I was hoping you'd do this one! Everyone seems to think this is JS - looking forward to your analysis.

James Nielson
2 日前
Could the man in the photo have eyebrows that are thick but light in color, causing them to be less noticeable in the photo? Also curious to hear what you think about the strong "fown" line just inside of his left brow. It looks to be a good match when compared to the oft shown painting of Joseph.

Brendan Wilson VFX
1 日前
I think I agree with you, but also couldn't this man's eyebrows have been but lighter in color so they don't seem as thick in the photo? I'm not sure how that would work if that was the case.

Brendan Wilson VFX
1 日前
Didn't they rule mads Madison already out? Your right though, many of this man's features are like his daughters

Robert Hall
1 日前
In the journal article from the John Whitmer Historical Association issue the authors discuss that they looked into Mads Madison as a possibility but ruled it out based on a surviving photograph of Mads that is "quite different from the person in the [locket] daguerreotype."
"
:arrow:

User avatar
SmallFarm
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4643
Location: Holbrook, Az
Contact:

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by SmallFarm »

Niemand wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:10 pm
SmallFarm wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 3:42 pm I think Joseph Smith III looks a lot like Emma Smith
Yes, it's a definite case of working out which features run in which families.

The younger JSIII has resemblances to Emma. The older JSIII seems to have similar eyes to a famous portrait
Image

The eyes on this portrait resemble some of his relatives - piercing without being menacing
Image

David Hyrum Smith (son)
Image

Frederick A. Smith (grandson) - as I say above, the face is largely different but he seems to have the family eyes.
Image

Eyewitness descriptions
“He was rather large in stature, some six feet two inches in height, well built, though a little stoop shouldered, prominent and well developed features, a roman nose, light chestnut hair, upper lip full and rather protruding, chin broad and square, and eagle eyed, and there was something in his manner that was bewitching and winning.”
—John D. Lee
His hair was of a flaxen color. He wore no whiskers. His chin was a little tipped [forward]; his nose was long and straight; his mouth narrow, and his upper lip rather long and a little inclined to be thick. He had a large chest and intelligent eyes….”
—James Palmer
“President Joseph Smith was in person tall and well built, strong and active; of light complexion, light hair, blue eyes, very little beard, and of an expression peculiar to himself, on which the eye naturally rested with interest, and was never weary of beholding. His countenance was ever mild, affable, beaming with intelligence and benevolence; mingled with a look of interest and an unconscious smile, or cheerfulness... and there was something connected with the serene and steady penetrating glance of his eye, as if he would penetrate the deepest abyss of the human heart, gaze into eternity, penetrate the heavens, and comprehend all worlds.”
—Parley P. Pratt
“[He] is a large, stout man, youthful in appearance, with light complexion and hair, and blue eyes set far back in the head, and expressing great shrewdness, or should I say cunning. He has a large head…. He is also very round shouldered.”
—Charlotte Haven
.
____
“His forehead is white, without furrow, and notwithstanding the small facial angle, somewhat symmetrical. His hair is quite light and fine—complexion pale—cheeks full-temperament evidently sanguine —lips thin rather than thick, and by no means indicative of boldness or decision of character.
“But the Prophet’s most remarkable feature is his eye; not that it is very large, or very bright—very thoughtful or very restless—even very deep in its expression or location; for it is usually neither of these. The hue is light hazel, and is shaded, and at times, almost veiled, by the longest, thickest light lashes you ever saw belonging to a man whatever the facts respecting the ‘dear ladies.’
“The brows are, also, light and thick—indeed, precisely of that description called beetle-brow. The expression of the Prophet’s eyes when half closed and shaded by their long lashes was quite as crafty as I ever beheld...
“His smile, which is frequent, is agreeable.”
—Reporter for the St Louis Weekly Gazette

https://theology.science.blog/2020/10/2 ... look-like/
Their reconstruction
Image
Those are Emma Smith's eyes.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Niemand »

SmallFarm wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:04 pm
Niemand wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:10 pm
SmallFarm wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 3:42 pm I think Joseph Smith III looks a lot like Emma Smith
Yes, it's a definite case of working out which features run in which families.

The younger JSIII has resemblances to Emma. The older JSIII seems to have similar eyes to a famous portrait
Image

The eyes on this portrait resemble some of his relatives - piercing without being menacing
Image

David Hyrum Smith (son)
Image

Frederick A. Smith (grandson) - as I say above, the face is largely different but he seems to have the family eyes.
Image

Eyewitness descriptions
“He was rather large in stature, some six feet two inches in height, well built, though a little stoop shouldered, prominent and well developed features, a roman nose, light chestnut hair, upper lip full and rather protruding, chin broad and square, and eagle eyed, and there was something in his manner that was bewitching and winning.”
—John D. Lee
His hair was of a flaxen color. He wore no whiskers. His chin was a little tipped [forward]; his nose was long and straight; his mouth narrow, and his upper lip rather long and a little inclined to be thick. He had a large chest and intelligent eyes….”
—James Palmer
“President Joseph Smith was in person tall and well built, strong and active; of light complexion, light hair, blue eyes, very little beard, and of an expression peculiar to himself, on which the eye naturally rested with interest, and was never weary of beholding. His countenance was ever mild, affable, beaming with intelligence and benevolence; mingled with a look of interest and an unconscious smile, or cheerfulness... and there was something connected with the serene and steady penetrating glance of his eye, as if he would penetrate the deepest abyss of the human heart, gaze into eternity, penetrate the heavens, and comprehend all worlds.”
—Parley P. Pratt
“[He] is a large, stout man, youthful in appearance, with light complexion and hair, and blue eyes set far back in the head, and expressing great shrewdness, or should I say cunning. He has a large head…. He is also very round shouldered.”
—Charlotte Haven
.
____
“His forehead is white, without furrow, and notwithstanding the small facial angle, somewhat symmetrical. His hair is quite light and fine—complexion pale—cheeks full-temperament evidently sanguine —lips thin rather than thick, and by no means indicative of boldness or decision of character.
“But the Prophet’s most remarkable feature is his eye; not that it is very large, or very bright—very thoughtful or very restless—even very deep in its expression or location; for it is usually neither of these. The hue is light hazel, and is shaded, and at times, almost veiled, by the longest, thickest light lashes you ever saw belonging to a man whatever the facts respecting the ‘dear ladies.’
“The brows are, also, light and thick—indeed, precisely of that description called beetle-brow. The expression of the Prophet’s eyes when half closed and shaded by their long lashes was quite as crafty as I ever beheld...
“His smile, which is frequent, is agreeable.”
—Reporter for the St Louis Weekly Gazette

https://theology.science.blog/2020/10/2 ... look-like/
Their reconstruction
Image
Those are Emma Smith's eyes.
They appear in the portrait of Joseph Smith, and at least one of the alleged photos. In fact, his eyes were frequently commented on.

None of the people below had Emma's blood in them.

Possibly also found in Hyrum, his brother (not a good picture)
Image

John Smith, his nephew
Image

Katherine Smith, sister
Image

William Smith, brother
Image

farmerchick
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2141

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by farmerchick »

oneClimbs wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 11:48 am Here's my take on it, with some other details the articles don't include: https://oneclimbs.com/2022/07/23/new-ph ... this-time/

Here's a video I made overlaying the photo with the death mask. Pretty compelling: https://odysee.com/@oneclimbs:f/jsphotomask:2
Wow..nice work......i think your right...this is compelling..

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Niemand »

Here is how Jack Chick painted him. Personally I don't think he looked much like this, although it looks as if Chick may have used the death mask and the painting of him as a general as models.

Joseph was described as having a Roman nose. This cartoon doesn't.
Image

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8237
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by creator »

DJB wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 am
That IS Joseph Smith! I know for sure 100%
I was skeptical at first, but now I would say I think it is a photo of Joseph Smith, with high confidence.

User avatar
DJB
captain of 100
Posts: 357

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by DJB »

creator wrote: July 30th, 2022, 11:36 am
DJB wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 am
That IS Joseph Smith! I know for sure 100%
I was skeptical at first, but now I would say I think it is a photo of Joseph Smith, with high confidence.
Finally, Brother Joseph wants to reveal his image 😊👍

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Alaris »

DJB wrote: July 30th, 2022, 12:17 pm
creator wrote: July 30th, 2022, 11:36 am
DJB wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 am
That IS Joseph Smith! I know for sure 100%
I was skeptical at first, but now I would say I think it is a photo of Joseph Smith, with high confidence.
Finally, Brother Joseph wants to reveal his image 😊👍
I have high confidence that it is time. Joseph Smith / Hyrum Smith were killed by their own brothers - John Taylor and that other guy. It's time.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Alaris »

DJB wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 5:20 am
That IS Joseph Smith! I know for sure 100%
Me too

User avatar
NeveR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1252

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by NeveR »

SmallFarm wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 12:43 pm
kittycat51 wrote: July 21st, 2022, 11:18 pm Joseph was only 38 when he died…I don’t know but that photo looks older than 38? 🤷🏻‍♀️ The one that blitzenstripes posted is more believable.

Ok how the heck does that Pythagorean cup work?


PS - does death make your nose grow longer?


User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Luke »

Alaris wrote: July 30th, 2022, 11:05 pm I have high confidence that it is time. Joseph Smith / Hyrum Smith were killed by their own brothers - John Taylor and that other guy. It's time.
You have high confidence in this belief but you don’t even know the name of “that other guy”?

User avatar
kittycat51
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1791
Location: Looking for Zion

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by kittycat51 »

“President Woodruff was once relating to a group of children some incidents in the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He turned to Elder Joseph F. Smith and asked him to arise to his feet. Elder Smith complied. ‘Look at him, children,’ Wilford Woodruff said, ‘for he resembles the Prophet Joseph more than any man living.’” (Smith and Stewart, Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, 124)
Image
Image

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Niemand »

kittycat51 wrote: July 31st, 2022, 1:57 pm “President Woodruff was once relating to a group of children some incidents in the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He turned to Elder Joseph F. Smith and asked him to arise to his feet. Elder Smith complied. ‘Look at him, children,’ Wilford Woodruff said, ‘for he resembles the Prophet Joseph more than any man living.’” (Smith and Stewart, Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, 124)
Image
Image
All three of these pictures looks different. 🤷‍♂️

User avatar
John Tavner
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4154

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by John Tavner »

Niemand wrote: July 31st, 2022, 2:03 pm
kittycat51 wrote: July 31st, 2022, 1:57 pm “President Woodruff was once relating to a group of children some incidents in the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He turned to Elder Joseph F. Smith and asked him to arise to his feet. Elder Smith complied. ‘Look at him, children,’ Wilford Woodruff said, ‘for he resembles the Prophet Joseph more than any man living.’” (Smith and Stewart, Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, 124)
Image
Image
All three of these pictures looks different. 🤷‍♂️
I would say the 1st resembles the third (the newest pic that claims to be Joseph) The chin and eyes are similar

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Niemand »

John Tavner wrote: July 31st, 2022, 2:16 pm
Niemand wrote: July 31st, 2022, 2:03 pm
kittycat51 wrote: July 31st, 2022, 1:57 pm “President Woodruff was once relating to a group of children some incidents in the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He turned to Elder Joseph F. Smith and asked him to arise to his feet. Elder Smith complied. ‘Look at him, children,’ Wilford Woodruff said, ‘for he resembles the Prophet Joseph more than any man living.’” (Smith and Stewart, Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, 124)
Image
Image
All three of these pictures looks different. 🤷‍♂️
I would say the 1st resembles the third (the newest pic that claims to be Joseph) The chin and eyes are similar
The chins are similar I suppose.

The noses and mouths are different.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Alaris »

Luke wrote: July 31st, 2022, 10:48 am
Alaris wrote: July 30th, 2022, 11:05 pm I have high confidence that it is time. Joseph Smith / Hyrum Smith were killed by their own brothers - John Taylor and that other guy. It's time.
You have high confidence in this belief but you don’t even know the name of “that other guy”?
:-) William something


Dancindebi007
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 5
Contact:

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Dancindebi007 »

OPMissionary wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 10:57 am
Artaxerxes wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 10:23 am Side by side 20220722_092258.jpg
Different nose, different lips, different cheeks, different eyes.
Scientists... AGREE, as published in the Anthropological Review, the Locket image...isn't a match to the death mask, but another image is, that was even printed near the sons of Joseph Smith, when they lived there (Kendall County, Ill.): https://czasopisma.uni.lodz.pl/ar/article/view/15192

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8237
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by creator »

Very interesting new video. More research comparing Joseph's skull and death mask to a photo that some think could be Joseph Smith. The first hour is less about the recently discovered photo and more about the skull and death mask. Skip to about 1:14 for the more in-depth photo discussion.

https://youtu.be/VZ-_wHcJ-xI?t=4455

User avatar
Cruiserdude
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5359
Location: SEKS

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Cruiserdude »

creator wrote: June 9th, 2023, 9:53 am Very interesting new video. More research comparing Joseph's skull and death mask to a photo that some think could be Joseph Smith. The first hour is less about the recently discovered photo and more about the skull and death mask. Skip to about 1:14 for the more in-depth photo discussion.

https://youtu.be/VZ-_wHcJ-xI?t=4455
Very interesting 👍

User avatar
Thinker
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12975
Location: The Universe - wherever that is.

Re: Joseph Smith's photo discovered

Post by Thinker »

Niemand wrote: July 31st, 2022, 2:03 pm
kittycat51 wrote: July 31st, 2022, 1:57 pm “President Woodruff was once relating to a group of children some incidents in the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He turned to Elder Joseph F. Smith and asked him to arise to his feet. Elder Smith complied. ‘Look at him, children,’ Wilford Woodruff said, ‘for he resembles the Prophet Joseph more than any man living.’” (Smith and Stewart, Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, 124)
Image
Image
All three of these pictures looks different. 🤷‍♂️
Yeah, I agree.
But the lower right looks like Ben Stiller’s gggrandpa. :)

Image

Post Reply