So we can reject the words of, oh, Abinadi and Samuel the Lamanite since they didn't vouch for themselves?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 4:21 pmDo you intentionally or unintentionally translate what I say into your own form of gibberish?Artaxerxes wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 3:59 pm The law of witnesses requires that you vouch for what you yourself said? What?
The Law of Witnesses requires that the originator of the work also testify of the work. I can't do a work in secrecy and have you later testify of it. That is not how God works. A work is at least partially invalidated when its author won't testify of it.
satan's plan
-
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2298
Re: satan's plan
- Shawn Henry
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4721
Re: satan's plan
Not sure what those first two sentences mean. I'm not fluent in gibberish, could you translate?Artaxerxes wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 4:18 pm "They have to been supported by PSRs."
"Not like that!!!!"
Joseph was dead when the 1844 edition was published, so I don't know that he made a lot of decisions at that point.
Except when Joseph says the scriptures are wrong. As he did. A lot.
Joseph was dead when it was published, but he was quite alive when the revelations were selected.
There is no such thing as "except when Joseph says the scriptures are wrong" when they are scriptures he brought forth. He never said they were wrong. How could he if he canonized them? If he can declare himself wrong in bringing forth scripture, then the entire BoM could be wrong.
-
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2298
Re: satan's plan
If we're going by selection process date, that was done before his sermons in Ramus, so it STILL couldn't have been included.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 4:28 pmNot sure what those first two sentences mean. I'm not fluent in gibberish, could you translate?Artaxerxes wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 4:18 pm "They have to been supported by PSRs."
"Not like that!!!!"
Joseph was dead when the 1844 edition was published, so I don't know that he made a lot of decisions at that point.
Except when Joseph says the scriptures are wrong. As he did. A lot.
Joseph was dead when it was published, but he was quite alive when the revelations were selected.
There is no such thing as "except when Joseph says the scriptures are wrong" when they are scriptures he brought forth. He never said they were wrong. How could he if he canonized them? If he can declare himself wrong in bringing forth scripture, then the entire BoM could be wrong.
He said the Holy Ghost was a personage, which is the whole disagreement.
.... Yeah. That's why we have to pray about things. You know, like the scriptures say to do... Because that's how it's supposed to work.....
- Shawn Henry
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4721
Re: satan's plan
So he couldn't have unselected it? Of course, he could have made changes right to the martyrdom.Artaxerxes wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 4:33 pm If we're going by selection process date, that was done before his sermons in Ramus, so it STILL couldn't have been included.
The point is, he would completely undermine his own credibility. The second main point, he witnessed for one and not the other. Third point, Sydney was called by the Lord "to call on the holy prophets to prove his (joseph's) words". The Lord had already designated who the second witness was to be. Also, 2 Ne 3 clearly shows that the Seer is to receive the word and the Spokesman (Sydney) is to declare the word. Beware any word that wasn't declared by Sydney.
"And it is expedient in me that you, my servant Sidney, should be a spokesman unto this people; yea, verily, I will ordain you unto this calling, even to be a spokesman unto my servant Joseph."
- Shawn Henry
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4721
Re: satan's plan
And therein lies my whole argument. If it contradicts scripture, no, we do not have to pray about it. We already know it is false.
-
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2298
Re: satan's plan
I think Joseph was more concerned with the truth than protecting his credibility, hence his teaching that the Holy Ghost was a personage, despite what the LoF said.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 5:02 pmSo he couldn't have unselected it? Of course, he could have made changes right to the martyrdom.Artaxerxes wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 4:33 pm If we're going by selection process date, that was done before his sermons in Ramus, so it STILL couldn't have been included.
The point is, he would completely undermine his own credibility. The second main point, he witnessed for one and not the other. Third point, Sydney was called by the Lord "to call on the holy prophets to prove his (joseph's) words". The Lord had already designated who the second witness was to be. Also, 2 Ne 3 clearly shows that the Seer is to receive the word and the Spokesman (Sydney) is to declare the word. Beware any word that wasn't declared by Sydney.
"And it is expedient in me that you, my servant Sidney, should be a spokesman unto this people; yea, verily, I will ordain you unto this calling, even to be a spokesman unto my servant Joseph."
-
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2298
Re: satan's plan
And when the scriptures contradict other scriptures?Shawn Henry wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 5:04 pmAnd therein lies my whole argument. If it contradicts scripture, no, we do not have to pray about it. We already know it is false.
- Alaris
- Captain of 144,000
- Posts: 7354
- Location: Present before the general assembly
- Contact:
Re: satan's plan
You're just boring me. The Holy Ghost is a man. Sorry!Shawn Henry wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 11:39 amIs this your way of intellectually conceding and bowing out of the dialogue?
Is it fair of me to say that JS completed supported LoF as scripture and that you do not?
Articles of Faith
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
-
- captain of 10
- Posts: 16
- FrankOne
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2947
Re: satan's plan
I've been considering the possibility that Satan and Lucifer are separate beings. The idea is that Satan is the actor that is behind the destruction of all that is moral, virtuous, and functional.Niemand wrote: ↑July 29th, 2022, 6:57 am The impressions I get of Satan's plan are the following:
* Upend, change and reverse everything.
** Modify everything and everything including genes of plants, animals etc.
** Get people to doubt everything.
* Get rid of free choice
** Ironically by getting people to abuse choice so it can be discredited.
** Use safety and force as the left and right paths to this...
** Subvert/hack democracy.
** Abolish cash.
* Destroy creation.
** A wrecked world.
** A destroyed human race.
And Lucifer sends in the anti-christ after the decimation is complete . He will stand for all that we have hoped for, except the name of Christ. All that is moral, virtuous, and functional. He will stand for family and self discipline. Everyone will clap. 2/3 of the population is gone and the remainder now have a leader.
The barbed hook will be the abolishing of free will. That's all! he will force people to be 'good'. What's wrong with that?
(sarcasm). Yet, there will be a portion of the Church that will follow him because they are the self righteous that wish to force people to do what is 'right'.
just a theory but it could be what scripture refers to : The Great Deception.
I'm thinking that Lucifer still wants to carry out his plan which was denied by God:
(ignore the word Satan and supplant Lucifer so my argument makes sense, LOL) If you think about it, from the scripture below, 'Satan' WANTED everyone to come back to God. Seems like a contradiction that he is only out to cause destruction. Perhaps there is another angle to this that would cause my theory to make perfect sense?
moses 4
And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him,
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 14231
Re: satan's plan
You're not the first to suggest this.FrankOne wrote: ↑August 1st, 2022, 7:34 pmI've been considering the possibility that Satan and Lucifer are separate beings. The idea is that Satan is the actor that is behind the destruction of all that is moral, virtuous, and functional.Niemand wrote: ↑July 29th, 2022, 6:57 am The impressions I get of Satan's plan are the following:
* Upend, change and reverse everything.
** Modify everything and everything including genes of plants, animals etc.
** Get people to doubt everything.
* Get rid of free choice
** Ironically by getting people to abuse choice so it can be discredited.
** Use safety and force as the left and right paths to this...
** Subvert/hack democracy.
** Abolish cash.
* Destroy creation.
** A wrecked world.
** A destroyed human race.
And Lucifer sends in the anti-christ after the decimation is complete . He will stand for all that we have hoped for, except the name of Christ. All that is moral, virtuous, and functional. He will stand for family and self discipline. Everyone will clap. 2/3 of the population is gone and the remainder now have a leader.
The barbed hook will be the abolishing of free will. That's all! he will force people to be 'good'. What's wrong with that?
(sarcasm). Yet, there will be a portion of the Church that will follow him because they are the self righteous that wish to force people to do what is 'right'.
just a theory but it could be what scripture refers to : The Great Deception.
I'm thinking that Lucifer still wants to carry out his plan which was denied by God:
(ignore the word Satan and supplant Lucifer so my argument makes sense, LOL) If you think about it, from the scripture below, 'Satan' WANTED everyone to come back to God. Seems like a contradiction that he is only out to cause destruction. Perhaps there is another angle to this that would cause my theory to make perfect sense?
moses 4
And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him,
Even on the other side of the fence in religious terms, you have Luciferians and Satanists, and surprisingly, these are both slightly different things. Satanists tend to be more into out and out evil, whereas Luciferians have found some way to sweeten the pill and see Lucifer as a kind of saviour. (LaVeyan Satanism and the Satanic Temple are modern developments and tend to be massive self-publicists and controversialists. Traditionally neither Satanists nor Luciferians tended to publicise their whereabouts) Luciferianism has probably been more palatable to some people because it separates out the two characters - and outside that, you have Prometheanism, which puts a classical dress on Lucifer and presents him as a misunderstood culture hero (but disguises his identity).
Luciferians (as opposed to Satanists) are often dualists, or quasi-gnostics. They think that God is the Demiurge, i.e. the evil being who imprisoned us in this world, and that Lucifer is the liberator of mankind. In modern terms, one might see the Promethean "fire" as technology and transhumanism etc. Technology would (in their view) allow humans to transcend a corrupt world and bypass God.
But, best point out... I am not endorsing either, by the way!
- BeNotDeceived
- Agent38
- Posts: 9078
- Location: Tralfamadore
- Contact:
Re: satan's plan
89 reminds of High Spy from way up in the sky, HI.
Those were the days when BBS ruled the airwaves.
-
- captain of 100
- Posts: 267
Re: satan's plan
Social media and #ProphetsUsingHashtags enter the chatNeveR wrote: ↑July 29th, 2022, 10:23 am Isn't it obvious? Satan's plan is simple - to destroy TRUTH.
All truth, big and small.
Not just to deny it or hide it - destroy it and our ability to even know or recognize it.
That's what all this current show is about. That's why we are asked to accept a constant flow of contradictory, irrational nonsense. That's why art and science are hijacked and compromised.
Because TRUTH is the enemy and must be obliterated wherever it manifests.
Exactly what we put in its place doesn't matter. Any amount of falsehood can be tolerated, conflicting lies can be debated.
We will be free to believe anything we want - provided it's a lie!
-
- captain of 100
- Posts: 267
Re: satan's plan
Rebellion will not take place in the church. There, agency will no longer be free it will just be moralized.
Free Agency > Agency > Moral Agency
1830 > 1999 > 2030
Free Agency > Agency > Moral Agency
1830 > 1999 > 2030