Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

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logonbump
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by logonbump »

LDS Watchman wrote: July 19th, 2022, 5:15 pm
Alexander wrote: July 19th, 2022, 5:10 pm
Atticus wrote: July 19th, 2022, 5:06 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: July 19th, 2022, 5:03 pm I think the precedent was set well before Oaks.
Yeah, Jesus Christ said it about Joseph Smith.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
6 For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.
"Prest. J. Smith rose, read the 14th Chap. of Ezekiel— said the Lord had declar’d by the prophet that the people should each one stand for himself and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church— that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls— app[l]ied it to the present state of the church of Latter-Day Saints— said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall— that they were depending on the prophet hence were darkened in their minds from neglect of themselves"
That quote is taken out of context. What he's saying is that the people all need to do their part and not rely on him do everything for them.
Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.

Mamabear
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Mamabear »

logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 2:50 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: July 19th, 2022, 5:15 pm
Alexander wrote: July 19th, 2022, 5:10 pm
Atticus wrote: July 19th, 2022, 5:06 pm

Yeah, Jesus Christ said it about Joseph Smith.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
6 For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.
"Prest. J. Smith rose, read the 14th Chap. of Ezekiel— said the Lord had declar’d by the prophet that the people should each one stand for himself and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church— that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls— app[l]ied it to the present state of the church of Latter-Day Saints— said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall— that they were depending on the prophet hence were darkened in their minds from neglect of themselves"
That quote is taken out of context. What he's saying is that the people all need to do their part and not rely on him do everything for them.
Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.

Yes. Amen.
Christ took me by the hand and told me to stop doing that. I felt His correction and love. He kept telling me to stop trusting in the arm of the flesh and I thought He just meant the vaxxx but He kept leading me until I fully understood.

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Outcast
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Outcast »

logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 2:50 pm
Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.
Can you please find me quote(s)/sources that say so? I'd like to have them for easy reference.

logonbump
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by logonbump »

Outcast wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 3:35 pm
logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 2:50 pm
Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.
Can you please find me quote(s)/sources that say so? I'd like to have them for easy reference.
"I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not."
Brigham Young

Mamabear
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Mamabear »

Outcast wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 3:35 pm
logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 2:50 pm
Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.
Can you please find me quote(s)/sources that say so? I'd like to have them for easy reference.
There’s a lot in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea. I’ll message you when I have more time.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 2:50 pm Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.
Or when the saints follow the leaders down to hell.

JST Mark 9

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.

logonbump
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by logonbump »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 4:52 pm
logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 2:50 pm Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.
Or when the saints follow the leaders down to hell.
Didn't Joseph Smith make a statement just like this? Or was it Brigham, ironically?

CMajor
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by CMajor »

At a conference held in Provo City, Utah Territory April in 1867 in the Bowery President Brigham Young in the course of his sermon, made the following prophecy: "Brethren, this church will be led onto the very brink of hell by the leaders of this people, then God will raise up one Mighty and Strong, spoken of in the 85th section of Doctrine &Covenants.
Attested to by Joshua Jones in attendance living in Provo City June, 1922

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HereWeGo
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by HereWeGo »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: July 19th, 2022, 4:41 pm
Atticus wrote: July 19th, 2022, 4:36 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: July 19th, 2022, 3:12 pm It doesn't really matter if what the supposed "anointed" do is right or wrong either, because "the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them." - Dallin Oaks
Oak's didn't say that it doesn't matter if what the "anointed" do is right or wrong.

As usual you are twisting words to try and set up a strawman to knock down in order to grind your ax against the church.
Like I told Shawn, Oaks's statement is in quotations.
Based on this post and the previous one on page 1, I can see that Atticus has become LDS Watchman.

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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 5:44 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 4:52 pm
logonbump wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 2:50 pm Aren't we though, as a people, too dependant on someone with a title or calling, degree or other qualification to enlighten our minds and lead ours lives? Look at how many of us trusted Dr. Nelson.
We are warned the church will be led completely into captivity or be slain by the sword when the leaders cease to lead the people in truth and righteousness.
Or when the saints follow the leaders down to hell.
Didn't Joseph Smith make a statement just like this? Or was it Brigham, ironically?
I think it was Brigham who made a similar statement. But I believe Christ said it best, cursed is he who places his trust in the arm of flesh.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

HereWeGo wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:37 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: July 19th, 2022, 4:41 pm
Atticus wrote: July 19th, 2022, 4:36 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: July 19th, 2022, 3:12 pm It doesn't really matter if what the supposed "anointed" do is right or wrong either, because "the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them." - Dallin Oaks
Oak's didn't say that it doesn't matter if what the "anointed" do is right or wrong.

As usual you are twisting words to try and set up a strawman to knock down in order to grind your ax against the church.
Like I told Shawn, Oaks's statement is in quotations.
Based on this post and the previous one on page 1, I can see that Atticus has become LDS Watchman.
Good to know 😄 I haven’t been following my friend’s adventures.

CMajor
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by CMajor »

At a conference held in Provo city, Utah Territory, April in 1867 in the bowry President Brigham Young in the course of his sermon, made the following prophecy: Brethren, this church will be led onto the very brink of hell by the leaders of this people, then God will raise up one mighty and strong, spoken of in the 85th section of Doctrine & Covenants.
Attested to by Joshua Jones in attendance living in Provo city, June 1922.

NowWhat
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by NowWhat »

..."the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them." - Dallin Oaks. OK, I'm an idiot. I should have remembered this. I forced myself to sit through GC, hoping for an acknowledgment of some sort--heaven forbid that it would be an apology--for what the heck went on in the last year or two. Wow, it was like 2020 and 2021 and the masks and the jabs and the mandates never happened. I have six or eight friends who are tuned in on the dangers of the jab--but they still like their favorite apostles and their "beloved prophet." Dang, it's lonely out here. And then there's the $38 million or whatever to the UN for "hunger." And then there's the coming famine that the alternative media is warning us about, not to mention the serious potential for nuclear was. No warnings from the leadership. With all of that, GC was traumatic for us with its routine ordinariness.
Last edited by NowWhat on October 3rd, 2022, 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mamabear
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Mamabear »

NowWhat wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:00 pm ..."the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them." - Dallin Oaks. OK, I'm an idiot. I should have remembered this. I forced myself to sit through GC, hoping for an acknowledgment of some sort--heaven forbid that it would be an apology--for what the heck went on in the last year or two. Wow, it was like 2020 and 2021 and the masks and the jabs never happened. I have six or eight friends who are tuned in on the dangers of the jab--but they still like their favorite apostles and their "beloved prophet." Dang, it's lonely out here. And then there's the $38 million or whatever to the UN for "hunger." And then there's the coming famine that the alternative media is warning us about, not to mention the serious potential for nuclear was. No warnings from the leadership. With all of that, GC was traumatic for us with its routine ordinariness.
Well at least Holland lectured people about not wearing a cross. That should help them get thru the hard times.
But seriously, was anything mentioned about the upcoming difficulties….famines, food shortages, oppression, tyranny? Because I’m convinced if we turned into China, that conference would still be exactly the same and they wouldn’t acknowledge a thing.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 5:24 am
NowWhat wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:00 pm ..."the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them." - Dallin Oaks. OK, I'm an idiot. I should have remembered this. I forced myself to sit through GC, hoping for an acknowledgment of some sort--heaven forbid that it would be an apology--for what the heck went on in the last year or two. Wow, it was like 2020 and 2021 and the masks and the jabs never happened. I have six or eight friends who are tuned in on the dangers of the jab--but they still like their favorite apostles and their "beloved prophet." Dang, it's lonely out here. And then there's the $38 million or whatever to the UN for "hunger." And then there's the coming famine that the alternative media is warning us about, not to mention the serious potential for nuclear was. No warnings from the leadership. With all of that, GC was traumatic for us with its routine ordinariness.
Well at least Holland lectured people about not wearing a cross. That should help them get thru the hard times.
But seriously, was anything mentioned about the upcoming difficulties….famines, food shortages, oppression, tyranny? Because I’m convinced if we turned into China, that conference would still be exactly the same and they wouldn’t acknowledge a thing.
All is well in Zion. Yea Zion prospereth.


The elephant in the room will start walking over people soon. Will they still ignore it then?

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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 5:24 am Well at least Holland lectured people about not wearing a cross. That should help them get thru the hard times.
Did Holland really say something about not wearing a cross?

NowWhat
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by NowWhat »

Oh, yes, he did. He really belabored the point. I'm a convert, and I grew up wearing a cross. It's not a symbol of his death to me, like a crucifix is; it just always represented Christ. It was harder to give up than coffee! Like you said, Watchman, this admonition should get us through the hell on earth that lies ahead.

FoundMyEden
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by FoundMyEden »

NowWhat wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:00 pm ..."the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them." - Dallin Oaks. OK, I'm an idiot. I should have remembered this. I forced myself to sit through GC, hoping for an acknowledgment of some sort--heaven forbid that it would be an apology--for what the heck went on in the last year or two. Wow, it was like 2020 and 2021 and the masks and the jabs never happened. I have six or eight friends who are tuned in on the dangers of the jab--but they still like their favorite apostles and their "beloved prophet." Dang, it's lonely out here. And then there's the $38 million or whatever to the UN for "hunger." And then there's the coming famine that the alternative media is warning us about, not to mention the serious potential for nuclear was. No warnings from the leadership. With all of that, GC was traumatic for us with its routine ordinariness.
It’s just “Back to business!” As usual. <sigh>

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 5:24 am Well at least Holland lectured people about not wearing a cross.
Really? 🤣 that’s interesting. I wear one daily.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Cruiserdude »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:08 am
Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 5:24 am Well at least Holland lectured people about not wearing a cross.
Really? 🤣 that’s interesting. I wear one daily.
I try to carry one daily too😉😁

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gruden2.0
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by gruden2.0 »

762X545 wrote: July 19th, 2022, 4:18 pm Aren't we all announced once we go through the temple?
I assume you meant to say "annointed". An institute instructor I whose classes I attended for a time made the point that yes, anyone who has been to the temple is consider annointed.

This is just another example how a scripture is wrested to benefit a certain group who wish to remain above criticism. No evil speaking + revocation of common consent = ruling the organization with impunity.

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gruden2.0
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by gruden2.0 »

NowWhat wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 8:36 am Oh, yes, he did. He really belabored the point. I'm a convert, and I grew up wearing a cross. It's not a symbol of his death to me, like a crucifix is; it just always represented Christ. It was harder to give up than coffee! Like you said, Watchman, this admonition should get us through the hell on earth that lies ahead.
I remember many years ago playing a game with a lifelong Mormon and a card came up with the picture of a cross on it. He likewise considered it to be a symbol of life because of the crucifixion. Me, having studied a little Roman history in college, consider it a symbol of death. Dying on a cross is a horrible way to die, and a warning for the empire's subject to toe the line or face similar consequences. The cross is where Jesus died, His resurrection is where He triumphed and overcame death. I don't suppose I'll ever see the cross as a symbol of life or Jesus, but after that particular instance it seemed best to not argue the point.

Maybe an empty tomb is a better symbol of life and/or Jesus? ;)

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

gruden2.0 wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:49 am
NowWhat wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 8:36 am Oh, yes, he did. He really belabored the point. I'm a convert, and I grew up wearing a cross. It's not a symbol of his death to me, like a crucifix is; it just always represented Christ. It was harder to give up than coffee! Like you said, Watchman, this admonition should get us through the hell on earth that lies ahead.
I remember many years ago playing a game with a lifelong Mormon and a card came up with the picture of a cross on it. He likewise considered it to be a symbol of life because of the crucifixion. Me, having studied a little Roman history in college, consider it a symbol of death. Dying on a cross is a horrible way to die, and a warning for the empire's subject to toe the line or face similar consequences. The cross is where Jesus died, His resurrection is where He triumphed and overcame death. I don't suppose I'll ever see the cross as a symbol of life or Jesus, but after that particular instance it seemed best to not argue the point.

Maybe an empty tomb is a better symbol of life and/or Jesus? ;)
The entire point of His life was death, for us. The miracles and everything else were great, but He lived to die. His death is how we may have eternal life.

That is why I wear it.

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Jamescm
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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by Jamescm »

Don't speak evil of the Lord's Anointed. Well, Christ was Anointed, that's easy. Anyone who has received his or her washing and anointing in the temple can be considered "anointed", but not speaking evil of them is also pretty easy. It's unnecessary. We are all children of Heavenly Father. I can rebuke those who seek my harm, or point out errors or objective problems in what others do or say, but I am in no way closer to Christ by merely complaining or by kicking against the pricks. If Elder Somebody says something that concerns me, stating my concern isn't speaking evil. Strutting around complaining unconditionally that Elder Somebody is nothing but an apostate hypocrite syphoning all our money? Probably skirting the line, at best. Disapproving of President Wannabe trash talking Elder missionaries while literally blowing kisses to the sisters on his way out after the meeting? Not evil. Accusing him of some intent or mind based only on my own suppositions, born from my own limited view of the whole mission area? Probably unnecessary.

In its most extreme example, I can wish for the death or disabling of one seeking to destroy or enslave my country to prevent him from destroying or enslaving my country, but it is against the Spirit of He Whose Name I wish to take upon myself to wish for the tyrant's death or disabling for its own sake, or out of malice or fear. Whether or not someone has been "anointed" doesn't even matter at that point.

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Re: Evil Speaking of the "Lord's Anointed"

Post by p8riot »

CMajor wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:53 pm At a conference held in Provo city, Utah Territory, April in 1867 in the bowry President Brigham Young in the course of his sermon, made the following prophecy: Brethren, this church will be led onto the very brink of hell by the leaders of this people, then God will raise up one mighty and strong, spoken of in the 85th section of Doctrine & Covenants.
Attested to by Joshua Jones in attendance living in Provo city, June 1922.
Reference please.

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