God is not ok with lying.

[Momma J]

It makes me sad to think many believe that God would ask us to lie.

It has been my experience that people justify their weaknesses by claiming God is ok with their actions. God is TRUTH and pure in his actions. We are placed here in our human form as a test. Your eyes are blinded as to what lies beyond the veil. Your hearts are not open. Why would my Father ask us to lie?

Do not claim that you can lie as it is written in the scriptures... that God told others to lie. Men wrote the scriptures not God. They are to guide us, but unless we personally ask God as to the truths therein, we may stray.

I am not the best guide.... But please my friends, do not be swayed into a false sense of righteousness that is wrapped around falsehoods. Truth is pure. Love is unchained. Seek ye un bended knee....

[LDS Watchman]

Is it the Character of God to Command a Man to Lie All the Time?

What does that do to the man?

How does a righteous man feel, when he looks into the eyes of his wife and lies continuously?

Would a Good God implement a standing law, which He knows will canker His child's soul?

If God gave a law to nearly every other person, and commanded one, or a few, to violate that law, not once, but every day for years, would God cease to be God?

Did Joseph and the others deny that they had more than one wife daily for years? I don’t believe that there's any evidence of this. All we have are a few recorded public denials, which one could argue were carefully worded to be as honest as possible without revealing their secret.

Emma was aware that Joseph had more than one wife and that he claimed that God had commanded it. She approved it for a time, but also fought against it. Joseph didn't keep the whole thing a secret from her for years.

I don't see how keeping the fact that one has more than one wife a secret is more harmful to a man than having to kill another person, especially defenseless little children.

[JLHPROF]

It makes me sad to think many believe that God would ask us to lie.

It has been my experience that people justify their weaknesses by claiming God is ok with their actions. God is TRUTH and pure in his actions. We are placed here in our human form as a test. Your eyes are blinded as to what lies beyond the veil. Your hearts are not open. Why would my Father ask us to lie?

Do not claim that you can lie as it is written in the scriptures... that God told others to lie. Men wrote the scriptures not God. They are to guide us, but unless we personally ask God as to the truths therein, we may stray.

I am not the best guide.... But please my friends, do not be swayed into a false sense of righteousness that is wrapped around falsehoods. Truth is pure. Love is unchained. Seek ye un bended knee....

God is truth. But God also withholds truths from those not ready to receive them lest they fall under condemnation.
Joseph taught that:

• The question is frequently asked, can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances &c.? I would answer, No, not the fulness of Salvation. Jesus said “there are many mansions in my father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you.’ House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion, has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too. But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation; it has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the saints prepared to receive the things of God, but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God will fly to pieces like glass, as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions; they cannot stand the fire at all; how many will be able to abide a celestial law and go through, and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say; as many are called but few are chosen.”

He understood that many reject God's will when it conflicts with their beliefs. They want their idea of God, not God.
And they would reject God and receive condemnation for doing so. In those cases being dishonest about those things he had revealed to him was a mercy. It was a higher law to keep the ignorant from knowing the things of God.

[Momma J]

I fear I am failing you. I do not know the words to use and parables are beyond my skill set. How does one explain our Father when understandings seem so very obvious in my eyes?

Be strong.... I have been given these words over and over.... and yet, I am weak.

These things I leave with you

Love to all - a pure love
Peace - in knowing that His grace is merciful
Strength - to endure all that is given to us (especially that which we do not seek)

[John Tavner]

It makes me sad to think many believe that God would ask us to lie.

It has been my experience that people justify their weaknesses by claiming God is ok with their actions. God is TRUTH and pure in his actions. We are placed here in our human form as a test. Your eyes are blinded as to what lies beyond the veil. Your hearts are not open. Why would my Father ask us to lie?

Do not claim that you can lie as it is written in the scriptures... that God told others to lie. Men wrote the scriptures not God. They are to guide us, but unless we personally ask God as to the truths therein, we may stray.

I am not the best guide.... But please my friends, do not be swayed into a false sense of righteousness that is wrapped around falsehoods. Truth is pure. Love is unchained. Seek ye un bended knee....

God is truth. But God also withholds truths from those not ready to receive them lest they fall under condemnation.
Joseph taught that:

• The question is frequently asked, can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances &c.? I would answer, No, not the fulness of Salvation. Jesus said “there are many mansions in my father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you.’ House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion, has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too. But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation; it has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the saints prepared to receive the things of God, but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God will fly to pieces like glass, as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions; they cannot stand the fire at all; how many will be able to abide a celestial law and go through, and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say; as many are called but few are chosen.”

He understood that many reject God's will when it conflicts with their beliefs. They want their idea of God, not God.
And they would reject God and receive condemnation for doing so. In those cases being dishonest about those things he had revealed to him was a mercy. It was a higher law to keep the ignorant from knowing the things of God.

Good thing Jesus isn't Joseph Smith. Imagine Jesus running around saying those things and being like "well, these guys are probably lost, I've spent 3 years with them and they just aren't getting anything, all I do is heal and speak truth and they still don't get it, maybe I just won't do the atonement, everyone is lost anyways... many are called, but few are chosen, so I'm just gonna view all of them lost... you know what Father, Don't forgive them, they DO know what they are doing..."

Why do we make Joseph Smith our measuring stick? IT is Jesus Christ, just because Joseph Smith was frustrated, doesn't mean he did it the right way. It doesn't mean everything he did was correct. IT doesn't mean he even approached it correctly. I may have truth, but I have to build your foundation first. If I keep trying to give you mroe than you can handle and your foundation isn't solid of course no one will handle it. Thank God that Jesus was our savior and not Joseph Smith or any other man. To be clear, I have nothing against Joseph Smith as long as he was honest, if He lied about polygamy, I think he was either fallen or the most damned liar on the planet and did more perhaps to lead people to hell than any other person on the planet...- and it just shows me again that "seeing" does not mean anything, it is becoming. We must know Christ Himself- and let His Spirit be in us to look like Him. Again, Joseph is NOT the measuring stick. Christ is. Who is the Way, the Truth and the life? Christ - what are we to be and whose name are we to bear? Christ's There for the Truth must dwell in us otherwise we are not His.

[LDS Watchman]

You don't think Joseph and Brigham could follow that same practice for a year or two?

How can you, with a straight face, even hint at BY abstaining when we know for sure that he was engaging in polygamy in the 1830's?

Do you really think that Augusta Cobb left her husband and children and named her next baby Brigham just to run off with another man to not have sex with him?

Didn't Augusta leave her husband and headed for Nauvoo in 1843, not the 1830s?

[JLHPROF]

You don't think Joseph and Brigham could follow that same practice for a year or two?

How can you, with a straight face, even hint at BY abstaining when we know for sure that he was engaging in polygamy in the 1830's?

Do you really think that Augusta Cobb left her husband and children and named her next baby Brigham just to run off with another man to not have sex with him?

Didn't Augusta leave her husband and headed for Nauvoo in 1843, not the 1830s?

Yes.
The only polygamous marriages before 1840 in the Church were Joseph and possibly Oliver Cowdery although I doubt the urban legend on that one. There's little evidence of the Cowdery plural marriage and his reaction to Joseph and Fanny is well documented.
No other polygamists in the 1830s.

[LDS Watchman]

You don't think Joseph and Brigham could follow that same practice for a year or two?

How can you, with a straight face, even hint at BY abstaining when we know for sure that he was engaging in polygamy in the 1830's?

Do you really think that Augusta Cobb left her husband and children and named her next baby Brigham just to run off with another man to not have sex with him?

Didn't Augusta leave her husband and headed for Nauvoo in 1843, not the 1830s?

Yes.
The only polygamous marriages before 1840 in the Church were Joseph and possibly Oliver Cowdery although I doubt the urban legend on that one. There's little evidence of the Cowdery plural marriage and his reaction to Joseph and Fanny is well documented.
No other polygamists in the 1830s.

But RLDS revisionists, Richard and Pamela Price, said that Brigham Young participated in spiritual wivery while on a mission to the Cochranites in the 1830s, so it must be true.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I'm sorry many of you have followed the god of this world.

[FrankOne]

I'm sorry many of you have followed the god of this world.

but he is so entertaining. The subjects tantalize and the mirrors cast glory for those willing to sacrifice.

[FrankOne]

What point? Capital punishment is valid IMO. Nephi had full rights to execute Laban after what Laban did. If you condemn Nephi, then you'd also condemn Captain Moroni.

"Show me any example in scripture where a “prophet” vehemently condemned a practice, and then went ahead and did it and called it a higher law."

Nephi condemned murder and everything that went into killing Laban, He also was against theft and a multitude of other deceitful practices, lies and deception. Yet Nephi broke about every commandment under the book, but it was righteous because the Lord commanded him too. Point is if the Lord commands it is right and we should do it. Nephi is a perfect example. Same with Abraham in Egypt with his sister. Both of these men are honest good men, the best of men....

Taking a life and murder are worlds apart. Nephi also made swords and fought w the sword. He killed people and he wasn't breaking a commandment.

Killing a defenseless man who isn't posing a threat and is passed out on the street and then impersonating him in order to deceive his servant, and taking his property, would ordinarily be murder, lying, and stealing. There's no question about that. The only reason what Nephi did wasn't a violation of three of the most basic commandments God has given is that God commanded it.

And if God was able to justify Nephi in committing what would otherwise be murder, deceit, and robbery, there's no reason why he couldn't have commanded Joseph to marry more than one woman, have others do the same, and tell them to keep it a secret.

This argument about lying just doesn't hold up.

you've made a very good point.

lying never adds up and the command to lie is insane.

[LDS Watchman]

"Show me any example in scripture where a “prophet” vehemently condemned a practice, and then went ahead and did it and called it a higher law."

Nephi condemned murder and everything that went into killing Laban, He also was against theft and a multitude of other deceitful practices, lies and deception. Yet Nephi broke about every commandment under the book, but it was righteous because the Lord commanded him too. Point is if the Lord commands it is right and we should do it. Nephi is a perfect example. Same with Abraham in Egypt with his sister. Both of these men are honest good men, the best of men....

Taking a life and murder are worlds apart. Nephi also made swords and fought w the sword. He killed people and he wasn't breaking a commandment.

Killing a defenseless man who isn't posing a threat and is passed out on the street and then impersonating him in order to deceive his servant, and taking his property, would ordinarily be murder, lying, and stealing. There's no question about that. The only reason what Nephi did wasn't a violation of three of the most basic commandments God has given is that God commanded it.

And if God was able to justify Nephi in committing what would otherwise be murder, deceit, and robbery, there's no reason why he couldn't have commanded Joseph to marry more than one woman, have others do the same, and tell them to keep it a secret.

This argument about lying just doesn't hold up.

you've made a very good point.

lying never adds up and the command to lie is insane.

Well, that wasn't my point at all. But if you want to reject the Book of Mormon and the rest of the scriptures and believe in a God of your own making, that's your right I guess.

[LDS Watchman]

I'm sorry many of you have followed the god of this world.

but he is so entertaining. The subjects tantalize and the mirrors cast glory for those willing to sacrifice.

You guys do realize that the God of this world is our Heavenly Father, and not Satan, right?

So if you're sorry that many of us have supposedly "followed the God of this world," who is the true and living God, I really don't know what to tell you. The lengths those who hate polygamy and refuse to accept that God commanded Joseph Smith to teach and practice it will go to never ceases to amaze me.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Nephi's life was threatened and his property stollen. All reasonable efforts were made to acquire the plates. When people make certain claims about Nephi, they almost always fail to included those details.

[LDS Watchman]

Nephi's life was threatened and his property stollen. All reasonable efforts were made to acquire the plates. When people make certain claims about Nephi, they almost always fail to included those details.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Having previously had your life threatened and property stolen, doesn't justify murdering a defenseless man who isn't posing a threat to you, lying to his servant by pretending to be him, and stealing his property. Not to mention kidnapping this same servant and compelling him to take an oath of loyalty under the threat of death. Nephi would have been guilty of all of these things had God not instructed him to do it.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Atti, please know that I never read your posts unless someone happens to quote you and I mistakenly read your response. Have a nice day.

[LDS Watchman]

Atti, please know that I never read your posts unless someone happens to quote you and I mistakenly read your response. Have a nice day.

We both know you read them.

In any event, lots of people follow these threads who do read both sides of the debate. I post more for the lurkers than for you. So if you don't respond, that's perfectly fine by me.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Again w the quoting....

[FrankOne]

Nephi's life was threatened and his property stollen. All reasonable efforts were made to acquire the plates. When people make certain claims about Nephi, they almost always fail to included those details.

just to take the other side of the argument:

Maybe Nephi should have asked if the thief wanted his cloak also.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Nephi's life was threatened and his property stollen. All reasonable efforts were made to acquire the plates. When people make certain claims about Nephi, they almost always fail to included those details.

just to take the other side of the argument:

Maybe Nephi should have asked if the thief wanted his cloak also.

Yes, of course. As he was kindly escorted out if the building.

[FrankOne]

Nephi's life was threatened and his property stollen. All reasonable efforts were made to acquire the plates. When people make certain claims about Nephi, they almost always fail to included those details.

just to take the other side of the argument:

Maybe Nephi should have asked if the thief wanted his cloak also.

Yes, of course. As he was kindly escorted out if the building.

haha...yah. I do understand what you are saying. I try to always see as many sides of everything as I can. The perspective of an ancient people is also something we cannot comprehend. I certainly have no idea what it would be like to walk in Nephi's shoes. Every man has a work to do and each work is perfect under God's will. Hero and Villain alike. All was created by God to serve a purpose.

[Chip]

Does this last sentence have a familiar ring? The part about "Please speak with your medical care team"?

vaxx.png (306.15 KiB) Viewed 198 times

Medical care team, kind of like stake president, maybe.

[NowWhat]

On another site, I asked if it's OK to lie for the Lord. I was referring to the whole "safe and effective" spiel. The administrator quickly replied that RMN wasn't lying; he just didn't know. Of course, it's been over a year since the 8/12/2021 letter, and a year and a half since the unforgettable picture of the Prez getting the jab. The truth is even starting to show up on mainstream news here and there. He still doesn't know? What about lying by omission? Still, not a word from Q15. Thoughts?

[Joan7]

Does this last sentence have a familiar ring? The part about "Please speak with your medical care team"?

vaxx.png


Medical care team, kind of like stake president, maybe.

From Facebook Died Suddenly News, that has been deleted:
This is my son before and after he got a blood transfusion of poisoned blood. We begged the h0spital to let us get pure blood. They refused and gave the blood to him without our consent. He developed a bl00d cl0t instantly that stretched from his knee to his heart. He made it two weeks before he died.

This happened in Washington State. The mother posted about it on Facebook right after his death in February. Facebook deleted it. How many lives could have been saved if the doctors would see and act on this one case? Poor little baby.

[Chip]

On another site, I asked if it's OK to lie for the Lord. I was referring to the whole "safe and effective" spiel. The administrator quickly replied that RMN wasn't lying; he just didn't know. Of course, it's been over a year since the 8/12/2021 letter, and a year and a half since the unforgettable picture of the Prez getting the jab. The truth is even starting to show up on mainstream news here and there. He still doesn't know? What about lying by omission? Still, not a word from Q15. Thoughts?

How about God giving strong delusion to those who do not love the truth, so that they will believe the lie and be damned? See 2 Thess 2:8-12.

So many people I used to respect have shown themselves to be such deniers of truth. It really makes me upset. I had no idea that they were prone to do this.