The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

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Subcomandante
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The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Subcomandante »

You guys have long known me as a contrarian on this board.

Why did the Church follow the government counsel regarding the pandemic? Why did the Church close everything down? Why did the prophets "urge" us to wear masks and get vaccinated?

My response has been consistent: Because the work of the Lord must go forward.

Many scoffed at me. Lots of scoffers have hit the Church for this and that doctrine, well, here we go:

https://news-africa.churchofjesuschrist ... -two-years

Why did President Nelson NOT go on the way of Archbishop Vigano or of Adam Pawlowski? Very simple. The burden of Pawlowski (one congregation in AB CAN) and Archbishop Vigano (a specific region in the United States) pales in comparison to what the worldwide Church has to go through.

So in April 2020 the president of Mozambique prohibited religious ordinances including baptism from taking place. Had the Church decided to do a Pawlowski or a Vigano, the Church would be nonexistent in Mozambique today, as well as perhaps a hundred nations. Ghana Freeze multiplied by 100.

What did the Church do? They waited on the Lord. No doubt many prayed and their prayers were answered as the president of the nation decided to relax the previous restrictions regarding religious ordinances.

This is what we have to do. Wait on the Lord.

blitzinstripes
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by blitzinstripes »

Even if that were true, it still does nothing to justify encouraging millions of people to get a harmful and ineffective vaccine. That is total lack of inspiration.

And kowtowing to Babylon? You think that furthers the work of the Lord? That must be why Jesus left a nice tip for the money changers in the temple and why Lehi stayed in Jerusalem. Why Daniel prayed to Nebuchadnezzar's idol gods, and why the Nephites never rose up and smote the Gads.

Refusal to take up a solid moral stance in defense of freedom and righteousness is NEVER the right answer. If you think that we somehow had to do that or it would thwart the work of God, then you don't believe in the same Almighty God that I do.

I honestly can't believe anyone can continue to defend such cowardly and faithless actions.

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NeveR
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by NeveR »

The church is only as good as its deeds. It only deserves to thrive if it brings light and truth & goodness into the world.

If it's a choice between death or doing evil the church should choose death, because if it does evil it becomes evil and so may as well be dead.

Advising someone to get a vax you KNOW to be untested, unnecessary and potentially deadly IS EVIL.

Doing that just to ensure your own survival is even worse.

I thought Jesus was their exemplar!

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gradles21
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by gradles21 »

Nelson was not playing 4d chess, he was promoting the vaccine because it was good for business, it didn't matter to him that he had to lie to and ultimately sacrifice many of his sheep.

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Subcomandante
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

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blitzinstripes wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:25 pm Even if that were true, it still does nothing to justify encouraging millions of people to get a harmful and ineffective vaccine. That is total lack of inspiration.

And kowtowing to Babylon? You think that furthers the work of the Lord? That must be why Jesus left a nice tip for the money changers in the temple and why Lehi stayed in Jerusalem. Why Daniel prayed to Nebuchadnezzar's idol gods, and why the Nephites never rose up and smote the Gads.

Refusal to take up a solid moral stance in defense of freedom and righteousness is NEVER the right answer. If you think that we somehow had to do that or it would thwart the work of God, then you don't believe in the same Almighty God that I do.

I honestly can't believe anyone can continue to defend such cowardly and faithless actions.
Because they had NO OTHER CHOICE.

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LDS Physician
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by LDS Physician »

Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:25 pm Even if that were true, it still does nothing to justify encouraging millions of people to get a harmful and ineffective vaccine. That is total lack of inspiration.

And kowtowing to Babylon? You think that furthers the work of the Lord? That must be why Jesus left a nice tip for the money changers in the temple and why Lehi stayed in Jerusalem. Why Daniel prayed to Nebuchadnezzar's idol gods, and why the Nephites never rose up and smote the Gads.

Refusal to take up a solid moral stance in defense of freedom and righteousness is NEVER the right answer. If you think that we somehow had to do that or it would thwart the work of God, then you don't believe in the same Almighty God that I do.

I honestly can't believe anyone can continue to defend such cowardly and faithless actions.
Because they had NO OTHER CHOICE.
That's hilarious.

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Subcomandante
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Subcomandante »

gradles21 wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm Nelson was not playing 4d chess, he was promoting the vaccine because it was good for business, it didn't matter to him that he had to lie to and ultimately sacrifice many of his sheep.
I didn't say he was playing 4d chess or even 2d chess.

The Church will follow the laws of the land wherever it is established. That's why missionaries are called volunteers in Russia and Türkiye. That's why to this day in central Mexico, the meetings are still with masks on. That's why in some South American countries, you can't even get into the chapel or the temple if you haven't been vaccinated against COVID. That's why in Mozambique, the Church did not baptize anyone for nearly two years. That's why in China, Church meetings of foreigners and citizens of PR-China are completely segregated. That's why in Brazil, you have to present a certification of completion of seminary (or sometimes Institute) before you begin a mission, if you are from outside the country.

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Subcomandante
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Subcomandante »

LDS Physician wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:51 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:25 pm Even if that were true, it still does nothing to justify encouraging millions of people to get a harmful and ineffective vaccine. That is total lack of inspiration.

And kowtowing to Babylon? You think that furthers the work of the Lord? That must be why Jesus left a nice tip for the money changers in the temple and why Lehi stayed in Jerusalem. Why Daniel prayed to Nebuchadnezzar's idol gods, and why the Nephites never rose up and smote the Gads.

Refusal to take up a solid moral stance in defense of freedom and righteousness is NEVER the right answer. If you think that we somehow had to do that or it would thwart the work of God, then you don't believe in the same Almighty God that I do.

I honestly can't believe anyone can continue to defend such cowardly and faithless actions.
Because they had NO OTHER CHOICE.
That's hilarious.
OK funny guy, what other choice did they have?

Keep in mind, in Mozambique, the ratio of Church members to the general population is less than 1:2000.

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gradles21
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by gradles21 »

Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:52 pm
gradles21 wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm Nelson was not playing 4d chess, he was promoting the vaccine because it was good for business, it didn't matter to him that he had to lie to and ultimately sacrifice many of his sheep.
I didn't say he was playing 4d chess or even 2d chess.

The Church will follow the laws of the land wherever it is established. That's why missionaries are called volunteers in Russia and Türkiye. That's why to this day in central Mexico, the meetings are still with masks on. That's why in some South American countries, you can't even get into the chapel or the temple if you haven't been vaccinated against COVID. That's why in Mozambique, the Church did not baptize anyone for nearly two years. That's why in China, Church meetings of foreigners and citizens of PR-China are completely segregated. That's why in Brazil, you have to present a certification of completion of seminary (or sometimes Institute) before you begin a mission, if you are from outside the country.
No but that's what you are implying. I stand by my first comment.

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Subcomandante
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Subcomandante »

NeveR wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:29 pm The church is only as good as its deeds. It only deserves to thrive if it brings light and truth & goodness into the world.

If it's a choice between death or doing evil the church should choose death, because if it does evil it becomes evil and so may as well be dead.

Advising someone to get a vax you KNOW to be untested, unnecessary and potentially deadly IS EVIL.

Doing that just to ensure your own survival is even worse.

I thought Jesus was their exemplar!
Jesus never went up against the Romans, or told the Christians to take up arms against the Romans. Jesus' followers when that time came when Rome was combined against Judah, separated themselves from that conflict.

Atrasado
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Atrasado »

Subcomandante, I used to make the same excuses for the Church, so I understand what you're thinking. What changed my thinking? Lots of things, like Isaiah 28, Isaiah 30:9-13, D&C 64:38-40, 85, 101 & 103, Daniel 8, Ezekiel 34:1-16, and many other scriptures.

Also, the Church joining with the WEF, UNICEF, and the NAACP with all of their depopulation abortionist schemes. Pushing the wicked Covid-19 genetic poisons didn't help. Truly the general leaders are the opulent ones who have made a covenant with death and sheol (Isaiah 28). Mainly it was when the Spirit whispered into my ear that President Nelson knew what the vaccines are and pushed them anyway.

Why do you think the Angel Moroni dropped his trumpet? If you don't think that was a sign then you don't think the Lord uses signs. What could be more symbolic to the Latter-Day Saints? Yet, like the Jews who ignored the renting of the veil when the Savior gave His life we are blind.
Last edited by Atrasado on July 11th, 2022, 7:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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LDS Physician
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by LDS Physician »

Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:53 pm
LDS Physician wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:51 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:25 pm Even if that were true, it still does nothing to justify encouraging millions of people to get a harmful and ineffective vaccine. That is total lack of inspiration.

And kowtowing to Babylon? You think that furthers the work of the Lord? That must be why Jesus left a nice tip for the money changers in the temple and why Lehi stayed in Jerusalem. Why Daniel prayed to Nebuchadnezzar's idol gods, and why the Nephites never rose up and smote the Gads.

Refusal to take up a solid moral stance in defense of freedom and righteousness is NEVER the right answer. If you think that we somehow had to do that or it would thwart the work of God, then you don't believe in the same Almighty God that I do.

I honestly can't believe anyone can continue to defend such cowardly and faithless actions.
Because they had NO OTHER CHOICE.
That's hilarious.
OK funny guy, what other choice did they have?

Keep in mind, in Mozambique, the ratio of Church members to the general population is less than 1:2000.
I'm not the funny guy, I'm the one laughing.

"safe and effective" is the quote from the First Presidency letter that confirmed to me what I have been suspicious of for awhile: these prophets aren't seeing or revealing. As a physician I see firsthand just about every shift I work that the vaccines aren't "safe" nor are they "effective". As someone to whom the Holy Ghost has testified regarding these vaccines, they're not "safe" nor are they "effective".

"They had no other choice" just doesn't ring true. Everyone has a choice. I highly doubt the Lord told the PSRs to play along with the globalists, falsely proclaim the vaccine "safe and effective", and effectively encourage millions of people through their strong cultural and religious influence to take a medical treatment created by monstrous companies (which the church owns million$-worth in stocks, mind you) which is far from safe and effective. It seems quite the opposite of what the Lord would do with his flock: encourage a worldly / deadly man-made concoction.

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gradles21
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by gradles21 »

LDS Physician wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:58 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:53 pm
LDS Physician wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:51 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm

Because they had NO OTHER CHOICE.
That's hilarious.
OK funny guy, what other choice did they have?

Keep in mind, in Mozambique, the ratio of Church members to the general population is less than 1:2000.
I'm not the funny guy, I'm the one laughing.

"safe and effective" is the quote from the First Presidency letter that confirmed to me what I have been suspicious of for awhile: these prophets aren't seeing or revealing. As a physician I see firsthand just about every shift I work that the vaccines aren't "safe" nor are they "effective". As someone to whom the Holy Ghost has testified regarding these vaccines, they're not "safe" nor are they "effective".

"They had no other choice" just doesn't ring true. Everyone has a choice. I highly doubt the Lord told the PSRs to play along with the globalists, falsely proclaim the vaccine "safe and effective", and effectively encourage millions of people through their strong cultural and religious influence to take a medical treatment created by monstrous companies (which the church owns million$-worth in stocks, mind you) which is far from safe and effective. It seems quite the opposite of what the Lord would do with his flock: encourage a worldly / deadly man-made concoction.
If Nelson were to say that the "vaccines" were safe and effective while having a twinkle in his eye, would that then mean that they are indeed safe and effective?

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Thinker
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Thinker »

Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:53 pm…what other choice did they have?
Image

”Do what is right; let the consequence follow.
Battle for freedom in spirit and might;
And with stout hearts look ye forth till tomorrow.
God will protect you; then do what is right!”

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Subcomandante
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Subcomandante »

Thinker wrote: July 11th, 2022, 2:08 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:53 pm…what other choice did they have?
Image

”Do what is right; let the consequence follow.
Battle for freedom in spirit and might;
And with stout hearts look ye forth till tomorrow.
God will protect you; then do what is right!”
Congratulations!

You have martyred all of Alma's people in the land of Helam.

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Ebenezer
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Ebenezer »

The LDS church’s response to the pandemic was just one example of many in an era of revealing. We know who’s who now. We know which side everyone’s on. We know who the enemy is. The battle lines are drawn.

War is coming.

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TheChristian
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by TheChristian »

For me an outsider, a friend of the mormons from afar, why were such men not forewarned of this affliction or pestilence that was to fall apon all nations apon the earth?
As scripture says" Surely the Lord will do nothing save He tells His prophets first"
Like all goverments, churchs they were caught unawares....
Yet here and there by His grace those considered of little worth and no account in religious circles, cast outs were given dreams and warnings of that which was to come.
A child was born in Bethlehem, to whom did the Angels give the news to, was it to the High Priest of Israel, a man called of God by a Prophet whom held the priesthood of God?
No, it was to the lowliest of workers in Israel, shepards tending their flocks.........

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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by iWriteStuff »

Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:58 pm
NeveR wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:29 pm The church is only as good as its deeds. It only deserves to thrive if it brings light and truth & goodness into the world.

If it's a choice between death or doing evil the church should choose death, because if it does evil it becomes evil and so may as well be dead.

Advising someone to get a vax you KNOW to be untested, unnecessary and potentially deadly IS EVIL.

Doing that just to ensure your own survival is even worse.

I thought Jesus was their exemplar!
Jesus' followers when that time came when Rome was combined against Judah, separated themselves from that conflict.
By your own witness you have just testified of what the church should have done - separate themselves from the conflict and focus on following the Savior.

But no, they decided to show their hand. They sided with Rome and offered up our children as tribute.

Godislove
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Godislove »

I still feel I don't have the answers as to why the church did what it did. I have found the past couple of years confusing and disheartening. I suppose my expectation was if the church were to say anything regarding the matter that it would be something to the effect of letting others make their own decisions and respecting each other's decisions so I feel I was kind of blind sided by it. I also felt it added to creating divisions within families....some divisions were probably worse than others but in my house it just didn't help things.
I think regardless of the what's or why's behind what happened that most people sense it was a dividing of sorts.....part of my sadness has been hoping I haven't chosen wrongly. I had read a comment section somewhere of members who chose to be 'obedient' and some seemed to suggest things along the lines of how they want to be worthy to build Zion and feel they are closer to doing that if they continue to be obedient to the prophet but I feel I look around and also see few who are doing much physical preparation....even after this past couple of years.
Meanwhile I've sat through numerous follow the prophet and obedience talk/messages.....the most recent being this past Sunday. I mostly just go and continue to try and diligently serve and keep my mouth shut so as to not look like I'm an apostate or anything but it does sadden me and bother me for my teenager to be hearing that constant messaging. I know that probably sounds terrible but I truly have been troubled by the whole thing.
I also think of the words to this song "Listen to the still small voice, listen, listen. When you have to make a choice, He will guide you....ALWAYS."

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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Sub sounds just like many of my extended family... "the first presidency 'suggested' we get vaccinated, they didn't say we had to." As they close their eyes and ears to 170+ years of leadership worship.

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Robin Hood
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Robin Hood »

Subcomandante wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:25 pm Even if that were true, it still does nothing to justify encouraging millions of people to get a harmful and ineffective vaccine. That is total lack of inspiration.

And kowtowing to Babylon? You think that furthers the work of the Lord? That must be why Jesus left a nice tip for the money changers in the temple and why Lehi stayed in Jerusalem. Why Daniel prayed to Nebuchadnezzar's idol gods, and why the Nephites never rose up and smote the Gads.

Refusal to take up a solid moral stance in defense of freedom and righteousness is NEVER the right answer. If you think that we somehow had to do that or it would thwart the work of God, then you don't believe in the same Almighty God that I do.

I honestly can't believe anyone can continue to defend such cowardly and faithless actions.
Because they had NO OTHER CHOICE.
There is always a choice.

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Niemand
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Niemand »

Because since 1930s, the church has largely co-operated with governments including Nazi Germany, Communist East Germany and post-1990s Hong Kong.

blitzinstripes
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by blitzinstripes »

THEY HAD NO CHOICE.


This is why the church today will never realize it's potential, is ultimately in apostasy, and will never build Zion. Utter and total lack of faith.

Which also explains why the mainstream church no longer sees miracles and why the Q15 couldn't even accurately prophesy that a clock would be right twice in a day.

False prophets with no fruit.

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Chip
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Chip »

gradles21 wrote: July 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm Nelson was not playing 4d chess, he was promoting the vaccine because it was good for business, it didn't matter to him that he had to lie to and ultimately sacrifice many of his sheep.
Going along with the secret combination was prioritized over the health of the members.

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Durzan
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Re: The reason why the Church did what it did RE P(l)andemic

Post by Durzan »

Everyone’s an idiot.

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