Prophet and Apostles getting paid $100k+ is Not Priestcraft

[EvanLM]

hope you guys don't mind this funny story but . . I had some friends in Utah . . a couple . .still quite young and good looking people with three daughters now in their teens.

so they tell me that they married just past high school had always been together and at one point in their marriage they just divorced and went astray. They both said that they had sex with everybody they could and just went crazy. Later, they decided to remarry and repent. They were ward missionaries at the time that they told me.

They were totally since about their repentance and totally commited at that time. I didn't ever hear them whine or bemoan their past or hang their head or . . . Nor did they bemoan any one elses sins including their daughters' or family's or anyone in the ward or the church or the world. Totally cool people that just went off the tracks for a while. God called them back.

I am still laughing over their story. Even when they told me then we were laughing cuz they were back and happy. Great people. honest and good, without making you feel their personal drama

Im having a hard time finding the humor in this couples story, thanks for sharing it though.

There was a church song in the early 90s by George Michael it goes.. "sex is natural sex is good, not everybody does it but everybody should!", well by todays standards it seems like a church song. But yeah, once the lust devils got a hold of you they take you on a ride thats for sure.

after you have repented of a sin . . . any sin, except murder since I don't know a murderer . . . and the years have gone by and you have seen yourself stay faithful and not repeat that sin . . then

there is a certain relief in looking back and not dwelling or elaborating but looking back and seeing how stupid sin is, then being happy as heck that you can see where you are now. laughing is a type of release from the pains that sin causes. and those of us who have truly repented and been forgiven have a way to see those sins as childlike. we feel that we have finally grownup and are looking back to one day smile over the fact that the sin and satan did not drag us down to hell.

In other words, when you really repent then you can look back on all of this and smile. Its a healthy way to live - like saying to yourself "How could I have been so dumb to think that was gonna solve things?" or "why did I even drag myself through this?"

[EvanLM]

people are always saying with a gloom face and gloom language . . "You have to forgive yourself." What a stupid comment. We can't release ourself but have to rely on Christ to forgive us and release us from the sin. This is man's philosophy.

there is no other way but if Christ has forgiven us there is a relief and feeling that we don't need to worry about forgiving ourselves - or whatever that means.

I think that people who use that expression are covering the fact that they really need to repent of some sins and the HG is prompting them to do just that. Once the repentance has been made sure then one no longer has those promptings or feelings of pain (like they need to forgive themselves).

If there is pain, you probably need to repent some more to God or properly repent to some mortal since this is the only relief.

[EvanLM]

Your response assumes that the Church is “true” and that Christ’s gospel necessarily resides within this Church.

These basic LDS assumptions are what I deeply question.

True, that is why we either believe or we dont, the best thing one can do is leave if you have doubts because if it is true the spirit will guide you back.

Let me also add that all churchs are true and serve great purposes to help mankind but the LDS church is the only one that has the ordinances and authority to the celestial kingdom. I posted in another thread but God pretty much showed me that I was on the celestial path back when I was a worthy temple recommend holder in 1998, in 2015 I started to go inactive and couldnt renew my TR due to slight changes in my lifestyle which was not TR worthy...I told God I was happy with being inactive and he was happy for me but in 2021 he showed me that I was no longer on the path to celestial glory, rather I was living a life worthy of a telestial state of glory.

I don't believe that all churches are true

you are right and God will continue to call your wife and you back, however, you will respond as you wish . . . now I have an opinion to add to this since I personally started out real good then sinned then repented and am fully active again. However, I am most disappointed in other saints as well as leaders BUT I can't be drug to hell by staying in this church. God called me back. This is Christ's great church that will lead me to salvation regardless of any prophets and members blunders.

so here's the new twist that I am pondering. Let me set it up. first of all, we know that anyone can apostatize even our leaders. we know that there are those who claim to be members and apostates that seem to love getting people to support their position and leave the church. BUT . . the most unusual thing that I find in the church in the last 10 years is that there is a lot more truth being printed and preached as well as the lies deceptions and man made doctrine. They truth and deception seem to run parallel. And the truth is NOT coming from the apostates on this forum or any other. It is coming from the church manuals. Let that sink . . . church manuals

So I am studying about Soloman using the current and revised institute manual. Ponder this stuff for a minute or two.

Quote out of manual: "Solomon's career began in a most promising way as anyone's . . .Israel had finally reached the borders that were to be hers, according to the Lord's promise . . "

poster's note: soloman only asked the Lord for wisdom and he did NOT ask for wealth, remember?

Quote from manual: "Soloman allowed his love for material things AND his great accomplishments as a builder to wean him from his early devotion to the Lord. True, he achieved great fame while the temple was being built, and his dedication of the house of the Lord was one of his most spiritual moments; but later, when the Queen of Sheba and other foreign visitors paid their respects, they said little about soloman's righteousness or wisdom.

Rather, they expressed amazement and awe at his tremendous achievements in building.

Soloman appears to have grown hungry for the plaudits of men. He decided to construct even grander structures. (poster's note:grander than the temple) To do so, he enforced heavy taxation on his people--so heavy that he eventually forced his people into poverty.

Mismanagement of the wealth left Israel tottering.

Is affluence in the church a problem today? Why? do we sometimes forget the instructions given by the Savior in Matthew 6:33?

We, as modern Israel, need to avoid pride, misuse of wealth, and lust for the world's esteem--three temptations that beset Soloman and led to his downfall. Are we any different? Because Soloman lost his blessing from the Lord. he lost it. " END OF QUOTE

point 1: this sure is NOT talking about me cuz I don't have an earthly position like Solomon. It has to be talking about our GAs from prophets on down to local.

point 2: this is in our very own church study manual . . not an outside source . . not a griper from this forum . .. not an apostate. I got it right out of the manual ---Old Testament Study Manual Religion 302 pages 10 - 11 . . revised new edition that has things I never, never , never read in the older manuals . . . what members of this church do YOU think this condemns? Think of the background of most of our GAs including the women and men. They have temptations that I don't, now don't they?

point 3: Even though Soloman was a King and not a prophet or seventy or mission pres or stake pres or regional rep or so on and so on and so on . . . Soloman was still responsible under the covenant and laws to care for the people of Israel and make sure that their TEMPORAL needs were met. He was appointed by God through the prophets and administrated by rights of the law and was supposed to sustain the Israel law in his judgments.

So our leaders are called by God, responsible for the temporal needs of the covenant people (let me mention here that there are NOT responsible for the temporal needs of the world which doesn't mean that they shouldn't help the world but means that the covenant people come before anything else) which is administered under the hand of Jesus Christ through the priesthood and laws of the church. You know what I'm saying.

So is the pot calling the kettle black, in this manual, or is the Lord inspiring even authors of manuals in our church to write in a way that it becomes obvious when men and women have fallen? I just can't believe that the conclusion presented here was uninspired nor the works of an apostate or angry church member. I think it is inspired for yours and my reading and consideration. It is a possibility that this can happen to any and all leaders who are called by God.

When finding truth then first you will need to be willing to accept it with the promise of being faithful to God and Jesus even if the truth shakes your core. They have no desire to lose you with the doctrine and justice that they expect you and everyone in their church to follow. So when you pray about it be willing to stay true or you might not get an answer. Don't satisfy your lusts.

The weakness or sins of anyone in this church cannot prevent you from getting your salvation as long as you are faithful to the gospel and our Gods.

Now, could this be a problem in our church? I think, cuz i have seen this church parade themselves around a lot and have heard the comments from the top(general authorities) down to the lowest member of how wealthy and current this church is. Preachers ask a GA, who reports it in conference..."How did you do this?" The humble answer, as reported in GC is always the Joseph Smith line . . .we didn't, like JS said we teach and the members just follow . . . or whatever than dumb quote is. It is dumb cuz it is always related in GC to the wrong thing.

so here you go and google some more if you would like:

4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is considered to be one of the fastest-growing and richest religions in the world. Its members are called Mormons and can be found everywhere, from Scandinavia to Japan. At the turn of the 21st century, Mormon assets were already being estimated to be at over $30 billion. It also has an annual revenue of $6 billion, with nearly 90 percent of the amount coming from member contributions called tithing, in which members are required to give 10 percent of their entire income.

3. Judaism

Those practicing Judaism are said to have accumulated the most wealth among all believers in religions in the United States. This is not stereotype profiling, as Jews are known to be adept in the world of business. It actually came from a sociological research done in the country. Though Judaism is monotheist, it is not homogenous as it does have a lot of different views. The largest streams and movements are Rabbinic Judaism, Orthodox Judaism, Conservative Judaism and Reform Judaism. Aside from its homeland in Israel, its members also have enough economic clout in the United States to form a powerful lobby that can influence and sway the decisions of political leaders.

2. Islam

Islam is a monotheistic religion that is the second largest and one of the fastest growing in the world. While Muslims are found all over the world, most of them live in sub-Saharan Africa, Indonesia, South Asia and the Middle East. As a result, Muslims actually have control of the abundant oil found in the Middle East. Some of the richest countries in the world follow strict Islamic laws. Estimates in 2012 put the assets of the Islamic financial industry alone to be at nearly $1.6 trillion.

1. Roman Catholic Church

Catholic priests are expected to make a vow of poverty, so it is ironic that the church is actually the richest religion in the world. The Catholic Church owns some of the greatest art works ever made. It also has vast gold deposits and billions of dollars in assets. It also earns a significant amount of income from the tourism sector as the Vatican is considered an independent city-state. It also has more than a billion members around the world.

POSTER'S note: this article is only for the purpose of expressing the wealth of the church

This story is being co-published with Religion Unplugged.

A whistleblower complaint filed at the Internal Revenue Service in November by a knowledgeable church member alleges that a non-profit supporting organization controlled by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints used member tithes to amass more than $100 billion in a set of investment funds and the Church misled members about uses of the money.

The complaint may be the most important look at LDS finances in decades, a window into one of the wealthiest religious organizations in the United States and the world. Details of the IRS filing reveal financial assets largely hidden from the church's membership (often known as "Mormons") and the public view.

’s also double that of the Roman Catholic Church, which has roughly 1.3 billion members and holds assets of $50 billion. That’s a little more than $38 per member. For Latter-day Saints, who have 16.3 million members, our church’s wealth translates to about $6,130 per member, or 161 times the Catholics’ money-to-member ratio.


From thousands of acres of farmlands to thousands of places of worship and from shiny commercial enclaves in urban centers to flowing fields in swelling suburbs, a newly released list shows The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints owns U.S. properties valued at nearly $16 billion and ranks the Utah-based faith among the nation’s top private landholders.

It may be no surprise that a growing pioneer-era church with millions of members — and devoted to acquiring land, cultivating crops, erecting temples and building Zion — would today hold vast expanses of property.

Still, the sheer scope of church-held domestic real estate yields mind-stretching numbers. And the findings emerge when many Latter-day Saints and church observers are already agog at other recently reported multibillion-dollar figures associated with the faith’s wealth.

This latest cache of data — captured in 2020 and released Tuesday by the Truth & Transparency Foundation (formerly known as MormonLeaks) — reveals a nearly 16,000-parcel collection of 1.7 million acres held by identified LDS Church firms. While the list is not complete, it nonetheless shows church lands in every state, just about every sizable metropolitan area and big blankets of territory in between.

[You can search for U.S. properties owned by the LDS Church here. Find properties on a map here or



AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON . . . . cuz these don't mention investments that will actually be lost when the stockmarket craps out . .and already a lot of money has been lost, I just can't find the stories fast. I think that the church is putting more literature on the net to dispell their wealth than they use to put out cuz 10 years ago they loved the brag articles about our wealth.

Anyway, Temples, temples, Temples. . . all with subdivisions and lots of developed property by contracting companies owned by their kids and friends. City streets improved by the church, farms and wooded acreage, cows and crops. Lots of empty new buildings that house masses of people, historic sites galore. Their attention is turned to other things than lifting their members while I went to some of the most horrible church houses in Ogden Utah that should have been condemned. A sure reality of what our leaders feel about their members. Not worth putting them in a nice building. rather have a temple that is only half or fourth full all the time. Better bragging rights.

PERHAPS, like soloman, they like to rub shoulders with Queens and are proud of their accomplishments in buildings and acreage and investments that have nothing to do with salvation. I do NOT believe that they have put the people of the church in poverty but I do think they have changed their focus and the focus of a whole church membership.

Solomon wrote proverbs . . lots of talk . . loss of action. GAs write lots of books . . lots of talk . . . well . . hmmmm . . . their actions are the reality that you see. I am not willing to state an opinion on that but truth is always shown in reality. You cannot accept the opinion of the powerful if it is against the reality that you see.- And, brother that is only fair to not influence your reality.

No matter how much wisdom Solomon had, it did not save Israel or him when he changed his focus. No matter how much wisdom our leaders have or seem to have when they speak to the world in news articles, GC, journals, etc. it will not save us or help us temporally if they . . . well . . . ugh

may god have mercy

Thank you for sharing, you have opened my eyes just a little more in ways that the critics in this forum couldn't, however I still believe in being loyal to the church as long as I feel that their intentions and mission is still focused on following Christ.

One great thing about the Q15 is that they are all older, they are less likely to care about the glitz, glamour and lusts of this world. Now if our Q15 were between the ages of 30-50 then yea its much easier for satan to tempt them with material things.

you might be right, however, I think the birthday party using the conference center and having donny osmond sing for RMN was pretty glitzy. And I think that david and solomon both were righteous in their early years maybe 30-50, then they both fell in their later years, maybe 60+.

The scriptures are given in story form so that we can see how the gospel works in the lives of people and how people react so that we can check ourselves against satan and see that we are the same as them. . . mortal . . no difference in dispensations of how we react to temptations. Of course, doctrines are also taught in direct language, as well.

[EvanLM]

time to build Zion a place of safety

[EvanLM]

btw. . . Israel members didn't leave their church just cuz their kings and some of the prophets were sinning . . . We still have stories of many and there were probably thousands of people not recorded, that continued to love the laws that they had been given until Christ came. There were those faithful like Mary, the mother of Jesus, Joseph, the shepherds, the apostles and thousands that still lived the law of Moses until it was ended. And then they transitioned to the new law of Christ's gospel.

I am not leaving this church either or the laws or the commandments or the covenants right down to the Word of Wisdom. It won't be someone on this forum or someone in the world or church who tells me to change to a new covenant even though many on this forum think they are in charge of that. The temple endowment clearly show us that there will be a servant. Isaiah clearly tells us that there will be a servant and it's not anybody on this forum.

Until I meet the servant, and I will know the servant just like in new testament times, the people knew John the Baptist was a servant, until then, I am hanging on tight to everything in this church just like those of old did. All the faithful will know the servant and when it is time to receive the higher knowledge, law and a new covenant.

It hasn't happened yet.

[EvanLM]

this is scriptures linked together by the Isiah Institute worth pondering and reading over and over:

To be even more precise, Jesus links the reversal between the Gentiles and house of Israel to his end-time servant’s mission of bringing forth his words to the Gentiles: “It shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant” (3 Nephi 21:11). Those words of Jesus, which he taught the Nephites, aren’t included in the Book of Mormon but are on the large plates of Nephi (3 Nephi 26:1–11). END of quote

point 1: the servant teaches the GENTILES NOT the House of Israel at this point
point 2: the reversal of circumstances or the giving of the covenants to the house of Israel is linked to teaching GENTILES. . . COJCLDS people
pooint 3: then the GENTILES that will not receive it will be cut off from the COVENANT people- or in other words, whether these people belong to the church or do not belong to the church who reject this message, are cut off from those who do accept this message.

lots of posters on this forum assume that the House of Israel people are just gonna show up in a mob, who are not members of the COJCLDS and are strangers from the covenants that God has already established in the COJCLDS. Then God will just say to the mob . . take it, you are so righteous that I'm just giving it to you free of charge. And then, that mob will give some us permission to be part of it.

NOT so. We forget that the House of Israel is mixed in with the Gentiles, or are actually the gentiles, unidentified yet, and have been getting gathered as Gentiles for some time. However, we have not been identified. We WILL be identified by the fact that we have covenants and are ready to accept the teachings (further light and knowledge) that is brought from the Lord through the servant. randyps, you might be one of these house of Israel and it would be a shame to miss out on the new covenants when the servant comes.

Peter, Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, apostles and many thousand were living the Law of Moses when Jesus came. John the Baptist was a forerunner who baptized many as they watched for Jesus. They were ready to live the new covenant and had followed the HG to baptism and Jesus. After Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses then those who had lived it began to live the gospel and went on to convert others. Jesus didn't come to strangers, instead he came to those who had already been living the law that he had established at that time.

apostates on this forum do not believe that the House of Israel will be finally identified. I know they will. I already have ancestry that leads back to Abraham, but am patiently waiting and hanging in there to be identified.

The teachers in the COJCLDS have also either not taught this or have mistaught this. and the posters on this forum keep teaching it as they learned it from the COJCLDS without realizing that they are doing it. They think they are not the apostates . . .hmmmmmmm

another lesson from the scriptures. . . .Moses delivered a stiffnecked people but those who were the covenant people at that time. the Lord did not send him to start fresh with a people that were not his. The COJCLDS are his covenant people today even though many are stiffnecked. The servant will come to us and teach us then the seperation will happen. Hasn't happened yet

[EvanLM]

one more comment then I am done for awhile . . .

in other words those of us in the church who are of the house of israel will not apostatize and will hear the servant . . . we hear the voice of Jesus

may god grant grace to us all

[thaabit]

I recommend reading the BoM, Isaiah, the D&C ... those are a great start. You'll see that in the last days the prophets/priests lapse into apostacy, are not in communication with God, love money/power, and will be removed out of their place by the Lord.

"Everybody loves money, that's why it's called money"

[Gadianton Slayer]

I wonder what a true prophet would say.

Alma 30:
32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.
33 And notwithstanding the many labors which I have performed in the church, I have never received so much as even one senine for my labor; neither has any of my brethren, save it were in the judgment-seat; and then we have received only according to law for our time.
34 And now, if we do not receive anything for our labors in the church, what doth it profit us to labor in the church save it were to declare the truth, that we may have rejoicings in the joy of our brethren?

[Artaxerxes]

I wonder what a true prophet would say.

Alma 30:
32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.
33 And notwithstanding the many labors which I have performed in the church, I have never received so much as even one senine for my labor; neither has any of my brethren, save it were in the judgment-seat; and then we have received only according to law for our time.
34 And now, if we do not receive anything for our labors in the church, what doth it profit us to labor in the church save it were to declare the truth, that we may have rejoicings in the joy of our brethren?

The perfectly describes our situation. They don't receive money for their work in the church. They're paid for their other work, just like Alma.

[randyps]

you might be right, however, I think the birthday party using the conference center and having donny osmond sing for RMN was pretty glitzy. And I think that david and solomon both were righteous in their early years maybe 30-50, then they both fell in their later years, maybe 60+.

Where do we draw the line? What are the rules to celebrating achievements and milestones in our lives? Its all relative.

I house sit for a rich couple (non-religious) in their 70s that take their adult kids and their families on vacations at least 4 times a year around the world. They are a very humble family and I have never sensed any type of gloating or entitlement from them. If you have the money, why not spend it and enjoy it?

I know poor people who are jealous of other poor people that have more then them, is that not sinning by coveting your neighbors things?

Which brings me back to my original topic, I do not believe that our "paid" leaders and our "rich" church are money hungry/greedy. They are smart with money. Middle and lower income earning LDS members are probably the ones complaining, why? because they think anyone or anything that is better/richer then them needs to be complained about.

One thing I notice about rich AND succesful people, they never complain about another rich person, why, because they understand that it took hard work to get to that point. Its only the less fortunate that think someone owes them something for their lack of hard work or misfortunes in life.

Please let me hear from anyone in this forum who is rich, Im talking Multi-millionaire status, that has a complaint about the churchs billion dollar worth.

[EvanLM]

good point since we aren't supposed to covet what we have and we aren't supposed to covet what others have or what we don't have.

perhaps you can address the fact that many people are corrupted by their money

also perhaps you can also address Isaiah referring to the leaders and members of Christ's church in the last days and their corrupt practices with their fellowmen regarding money and gain.

And, in addition there is scripture in the BofM that prophesies of this day where the church will seperate itself into classes depending on members' money and education or lack of money and education. This separation will be coupled with the rich and educated grinding the faces of the poor and uneducated righteous and humble of the church. . .but this may not have happened yet.

there are also scriptures that refer to the rich not helping the poor cuz of their fine clothing and houses. However it doesn't mention any trips.

personally, this is a neutral subject with me. I have tried to give most of my money away so that when the Lord takes all of the wealth from his covenant people, then I have less to be mad about losing.

Those in this church with a lot of wealth that will be taken from them will have a lot more to be mad about than me. I'd rather give it away than have it taken since now I can help people. Tomorrow when the Lord has taken all our wealth, I won't be able to help. the day of work will be over.

[EvanLM]

when the wealth is gone, watch your fellow rich men. If they blame the stock market, or wall street or the president, or anyone else, then you can be sure they are not as righteous as you think. If they realize that it was God and they sincerely begin to repent of their selfish and wicked ways, then you can pretty well be sure they are the faithful.

God is exposing the world we live in and those who are corrupt . . . he will continue until he has also exposed everyone in the church and world

btw If one wants to give and be right with God then he will tell you when it is enough. God will not leave the rich penniless cuz they gave away their riches He hasn't left me penniless for my choice. He told me when it was enough and what I would need for my own living. My sons are getting no inheritance. I gave it all away.

God will ask us what we did with what he gave us . . . either now or in the judgment . . . there's still time to answer that question and change if we need to

[EvanLM]

our prophets will also be asked that question . . .accountabiltiy on all sides

[randyps]

our prophets will also be asked that question . . .accountabiltiy on all sides

Our prophets are doing a great job keeping the church alive and relevant considering the current world climate, in this day and age when cancel culture will shut any company down and ruin anyone's career, I think the church leaders are doing their best navigating the waters.

I remember Gwenith Paltro the actress, she was sexually assaulted by Harvey Weinstein in the 90s but was afraid to come forth at that time, years later she even defended him in a newspaper article. It wasnt until many more years later when there was enough momentum to bring Weinstein down did she bring out her story to seal the deal. She didnt have to compromise anything, she just had to pick and choose her battle, she is sitting pretty right now while Weinstein will rot in jail like the dog he is.

I feel that the world is in satans hands now, the church can still maintain its dignity while picking its battles. All the complainers that think the leaders are corrupt and blind have no pride or faith in Gods work. We will wait till all this evil crap blows over then the church will emerge as the light to the world.

[Fred]

Which, if any, of the following are correct?

A. God told RMN to lie boldly about the covid hoax, including the words: godsend, safe, and effective.

B. God told RMN nothing at all.

C. God and RMN are on a first name basis, and as God's chosen mouthpiece, RMN knows God's will regarding mankind and has God's full support.

D. The church is under condemnation. The profit is corrupt. As are the entire Q15, 70s, Area Authorities and ALL Stake Presidents and Bishops that preach Satan's lies about masks, jabs, and following corrupt government authorities.

E. On the very day that the president of the church declared that Christ's Church is subservient to the will of man, government, and earthly laws, God turned His back on the church leaders and has not gave them the time of day since. Members may be followers of Christ, but leadership clearly is not.

F. The leaders of the church are so full of sh!t that their eyes are brown and if their eyes are not brown, it is because they are a quart low.

[Shawn Henry]

The perfectly describes our situation. They don't receive money for their work in the church. They're paid for their other work, just like Alma.

I can't believe you actually typed this nonsense statement.

[Artaxerxes]

The perfectly describes our situation. They don't receive money for their work in the church. They're paid for their other work, just like Alma.

I can't believe you actually typed this nonsense statement.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[762X545]

you might be right, however, I think the birthday party using the conference center and having donny osmond sing for RMN was pretty glitzy. And I think that david and solomon both were righteous in their early years maybe 30-50, then they both fell in their later years, maybe 60+.

Where do we draw the line? What are the rules to celebrating achievements and milestones in our lives? Its all relative.

I house sit for a rich couple (non-religious) in their 70s that take their adult kids and their families on vacations at least 4 times a year around the world. They are a very humble family and I have never sensed any type of gloating or entitlement from them. If you have the money, why not spend it and enjoy it?

I know poor people who are jealous of other poor people that have more then them, is that not sinning by coveting your neighbors things?

Which brings me back to my original topic, I do not believe that our "paid" leaders and our "rich" church are money hungry/greedy. They are smart with money. Middle and lower income earning LDS members are probably the ones complaining, why? because they think anyone or anything that is better/richer then them needs to be complained about.

One thing I notice about rich AND succesful people, they never complain about another rich person, why, because they understand that it took hard work to get to that point. Its only the less fortunate that think someone owes them something for their lack of hard work or misfortunes in life.

Please let me hear from anyone in this forum who is rich, Im talking Multi-millionaire status, that has a complaint about the churchs billion dollar worth.

Here the problem I have with the church's wealth. Let's take Rick. Rick makes 60k a year. Gives 6k to RustyCorp. Ricks sons follows the prophet, as he has been told to do since birth, and goes on a mission. Rick now has to get a second job to support Rob, his son. Ricks car is a piece of crap. Rick can't afford another car because he's paying for Rob to go out and bring more clients into Rusty's pyramid scheme. Rick can't repair his roof right because he's funding Rob's two-year soliciting fest. Rick can't afford to take a vacation. Ricks wife Rhonda now has to work also because Rick has worn his back out and now needs surgery. Meanwhile Rusty, Dave, Dieter, Doug, Bob their wives and family members along with personal assistants, security teams, photographers and a whole slew I'm of sycophants get to travel to Rome so that they can all have their pictures taken in pretty white suits next to another "Great and Spacious building." All of this was paid for by little old Rick. Little old Rick who will work until he dies in order for Rusty and his buddies to travel the world and live a rock stars life.

[Artaxerxes]

you might be right, however, I think the birthday party using the conference center and having donny osmond sing for RMN was pretty glitzy. And I think that david and solomon both were righteous in their early years maybe 30-50, then they both fell in their later years, maybe 60+.

Where do we draw the line? What are the rules to celebrating achievements and milestones in our lives? Its all relative.

I house sit for a rich couple (non-religious) in their 70s that take their adult kids and their families on vacations at least 4 times a year around the world. They are a very humble family and I have never sensed any type of gloating or entitlement from them. If you have the money, why not spend it and enjoy it?

I know poor people who are jealous of other poor people that have more then them, is that not sinning by coveting your neighbors things?

Which brings me back to my original topic, I do not believe that our "paid" leaders and our "rich" church are money hungry/greedy. They are smart with money. Middle and lower income earning LDS members are probably the ones complaining, why? because they think anyone or anything that is better/richer then them needs to be complained about.

One thing I notice about rich AND succesful people, they never complain about another rich person, why, because they understand that it took hard work to get to that point. Its only the less fortunate that think someone owes them something for their lack of hard work or misfortunes in life.

Please let me hear from anyone in this forum who is rich, Im talking Multi-millionaire status, that has a complaint about the churchs billion dollar worth.

Here the problem I have with the church's wealth. Let's take Rick. Rick makes 60k a year. Gives 6k to RustyCorp. Ricks sons follows the prophet, as he has been told to do since birth, and goes on a mission. Rick now has to get a second job to support Rob, his son. Ricks car is a piece of crap. Rick can't afford another car because he's paying for Rob to go out and bring more clients into Rusty's pyramid scheme. Rick can't repair his roof right because he's funding Rob's two-year soliciting fest. Rick can't afford to take a vacation. Ricks wife Rhonda now has to work also because Rick has worn his back out and now needs surgery. Meanwhile Rusty, Dave, Dieter, Doug, Bob their wives and family members along with personal assistants, security teams, photographers and a whole slew I'm of sycophants get to travel to Rome so that they can all have their pictures taken in pretty white suits next to another "Great and Spacious building." All of this was paid for by little old Rick. Little old Rick who will work until he dies in order for Rusty and his buddies to travel the world and live a rock stars life.

None of those things are related. Tithing is a commandment. People have to pay their 10% to the Lord regardless of what it goes to.

In your hypo, Rick would be working and doing whatever regardless of what the money is spent on.

[762X545]

you might be right, however, I think the birthday party using the conference center and having donny osmond sing for RMN was pretty glitzy. And I think that david and solomon both were righteous in their early years maybe 30-50, then they both fell in their later years, maybe 60+.

Where do we draw the line? What are the rules to celebrating achievements and milestones in our lives? Its all relative.

I house sit for a rich couple (non-religious) in their 70s that take their adult kids and their families on vacations at least 4 times a year around the world. They are a very humble family and I have never sensed any type of gloating or entitlement from them. If you have the money, why not spend it and enjoy it?

I know poor people who are jealous of other poor people that have more then them, is that not sinning by coveting your neighbors things?

Which brings me back to my original topic, I do not believe that our "paid" leaders and our "rich" church are money hungry/greedy. They are smart with money. Middle and lower income earning LDS members are probably the ones complaining, why? because they think anyone or anything that is better/richer then them needs to be complained about.

One thing I notice about rich AND succesful people, they never complain about another rich person, why, because they understand that it took hard work to get to that point. Its only the less fortunate that think someone owes them something for their lack of hard work or misfortunes in life.

Please let me hear from anyone in this forum who is rich, Im talking Multi-millionaire status, that has a complaint about the churchs billion dollar worth.

Here the problem I have with the church's wealth. Let's take Rick. Rick makes 60k a year. Gives 6k to RustyCorp. Ricks sons follows the prophet, as he has been told to do since birth, and goes on a mission. Rick now has to get a second job to support Rob, his son. Ricks car is a piece of crap. Rick can't afford another car because he's paying for Rob to go out and bring more clients into Rusty's pyramid scheme. Rick can't repair his roof right because he's funding Rob's two-year soliciting fest. Rick can't afford to take a vacation. Ricks wife Rhonda now has to work also because Rick has worn his back out and now needs surgery. Meanwhile Rusty, Dave, Dieter, Doug, Bob their wives and family members along with personal assistants, security teams, photographers and a whole slew I'm of sycophants get to travel to Rome so that they can all have their pictures taken in pretty white suits next to another "Great and Spacious building." All of this was paid for by little old Rick. Little old Rick who will work until he dies in order for Rusty and his buddies to travel the world and live a rock stars life.

None of those things are related. Tithing is a commandment. People have to pay their 10% to the Lord regardless of what it goes to.

In your hypo, Rick would be working and doing whatever regardless of what the money is spent on.

Does Rick have to give his tithing to Rustycorp? Does God reject tithes given by other sects to their respective church's? Why can't the church pay missionaries to go out rather than require they to pay their own way? How many temple sit nearly vacant yet RustyCorp. announces a new one every week.

[Artaxerxes]

Where do we draw the line? What are the rules to celebrating achievements and milestones in our lives? Its all relative.

I house sit for a rich couple (non-religious) in their 70s that take their adult kids and their families on vacations at least 4 times a year around the world. They are a very humble family and I have never sensed any type of gloating or entitlement from them. If you have the money, why not spend it and enjoy it?

I know poor people who are jealous of other poor people that have more then them, is that not sinning by coveting your neighbors things?

Which brings me back to my original topic, I do not believe that our "paid" leaders and our "rich" church are money hungry/greedy. They are smart with money. Middle and lower income earning LDS members are probably the ones complaining, why? because they think anyone or anything that is better/richer then them needs to be complained about.

One thing I notice about rich AND succesful people, they never complain about another rich person, why, because they understand that it took hard work to get to that point. Its only the less fortunate that think someone owes them something for their lack of hard work or misfortunes in life.

Please let me hear from anyone in this forum who is rich, Im talking Multi-millionaire status, that has a complaint about the churchs billion dollar worth.

Here the problem I have with the church's wealth. Let's take Rick. Rick makes 60k a year. Gives 6k to RustyCorp. Ricks sons follows the prophet, as he has been told to do since birth, and goes on a mission. Rick now has to get a second job to support Rob, his son. Ricks car is a piece of crap. Rick can't afford another car because he's paying for Rob to go out and bring more clients into Rusty's pyramid scheme. Rick can't repair his roof right because he's funding Rob's two-year soliciting fest. Rick can't afford to take a vacation. Ricks wife Rhonda now has to work also because Rick has worn his back out and now needs surgery. Meanwhile Rusty, Dave, Dieter, Doug, Bob their wives and family members along with personal assistants, security teams, photographers and a whole slew I'm of sycophants get to travel to Rome so that they can all have their pictures taken in pretty white suits next to another "Great and Spacious building." All of this was paid for by little old Rick. Little old Rick who will work until he dies in order for Rusty and his buddies to travel the world and live a rock stars life.

None of those things are related. Tithing is a commandment. People have to pay their 10% to the Lord regardless of what it goes to.

In your hypo, Rick would be working and doing whatever regardless of what the money is spent on.

Does Rick have to give his tithing to Rustycorp? Does God reject tithes given by other sects to their respective church's? Why can't the church pay missionaries to go out rather than require they to pay their own way? How many temple sit nearly vacant yet RustyCorp. announces a new one every week.

Again, if he gave 10% to the food bank or to church, or whether or not the church spent it or kept it or whatever, Rick's balance sheet would be the same.

Many missionaries do not pay their own way. Where possible, I think it makes sense for them to pay their own way, but a lot of missionaries, especially from third world countries, do not pay their own way.

[762X545]

Here the problem I have with the church's wealth. Let's take Rick. Rick makes 60k a year. Gives 6k to RustyCorp. Ricks sons follows the prophet, as he has been told to do since birth, and goes on a mission. Rick now has to get a second job to support Rob, his son. Ricks car is a piece of crap. Rick can't afford another car because he's paying for Rob to go out and bring more clients into Rusty's pyramid scheme. Rick can't repair his roof right because he's funding Rob's two-year soliciting fest. Rick can't afford to take a vacation. Ricks wife Rhonda now has to work also because Rick has worn his back out and now needs surgery. Meanwhile Rusty, Dave, Dieter, Doug, Bob their wives and family members along with personal assistants, security teams, photographers and a whole slew I'm of sycophants get to travel to Rome so that they can all have their pictures taken in pretty white suits next to another "Great and Spacious building." All of this was paid for by little old Rick. Little old Rick who will work until he dies in order for Rusty and his buddies to travel the world and live a rock stars life.

None of those things are related. Tithing is a commandment. People have to pay their 10% to the Lord regardless of what it goes to.

In your hypo, Rick would be working and doing whatever regardless of what the money is spent on.

Does Rick have to give his tithing to Rustycorp? Does God reject tithes given by other sects to their respective church's? Why can't the church pay missionaries to go out rather than require they to pay their own way? How many temple sit nearly vacant yet RustyCorp. announces a new one every week.

Again, if he gave 10% to the food bank or to church, or whether or not the church spent it or kept it or whatever, Rick's balance sheet would be the same.

Many missionaries do not pay their own way. Where possible, I think it makes sense for them to pay their own way, but a lot of missionaries, especially from third world countries, do not pay their own way.

Do you find it acceptable that Elder Snodgrass of the Quorum of the Annointed has his roof repaired on his personal home and the check is written out by the Church rather than his own account. Snodgrass also has his yardwork done by service missionaries. All of this is paid for with tithes from Rick who has to slap some tar on his roof and weld together some sort of rudimentary lawn chopper contraption. As for the example used is this situation, it is 100% truth. I worked for the roofer who did the work while missionaries mowed the lawn and pulled the weeds. I accepted the check when the job was complete.

[Artaxerxes]

None of those things are related. Tithing is a commandment. People have to pay their 10% to the Lord regardless of what it goes to.

In your hypo, Rick would be working and doing whatever regardless of what the money is spent on.

Does Rick have to give his tithing to Rustycorp? Does God reject tithes given by other sects to their respective church's? Why can't the church pay missionaries to go out rather than require they to pay their own way? How many temple sit nearly vacant yet RustyCorp. announces a new one every week.

Again, if he gave 10% to the food bank or to church, or whether or not the church spent it or kept it or whatever, Rick's balance sheet would be the same.

Many missionaries do not pay their own way. Where possible, I think it makes sense for them to pay their own way, but a lot of missionaries, especially from third world countries, do not pay their own way.

Do you find it acceptable that Elder Snodgrass of the Quorum of the Annointed has his roof repaired on his personal home and the check is written out by the Church rather than his own account. Snodgrass also has his yardwork done by service missionaries. All of this is paid for with tithes from Rick who has to slap some tar on his roof and weld together some sort of rudimentary lawn chopper contraption. As for the example used is this situation, it is 100% truth. I worked for the roofer who did the work while missionaries mowed the lawn and pulled the weeds. I accepted the check when the job was complete.

What other people do is none of my business. I don't understand the need to examine, to gossip, or to judge other people. They're accountable for their choices and I'm accountable for mine.

[NowWhat]

"One great thing about the Q15 is that they are all older, they are less likely to care about the glitz, glamour and lusts of this world. Now if our Q15 were between the ages of 30-50 then yea its much easier for satan to tempt them with material things." Material things? Do you know how much their "stipend" is? It was just raised, I believe, to $140 K a year. Do you make that much? But I read that, by the time you throw in free travel, college tuition for kids, numerous other perks (including free landscaping of their multi-million dollar mansions by Church landscapers), it's up to about $340 K. This is not just the Q15, from what I have read, and probably on this site: the 70, the Temple presidencies, the Mission presidents... That's fine. Just don't say that we have a lay church.