Is the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost a singular event? (Poll)

[Reluctant Watchman]

I see this principle of the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost shared frequently in various groups. Some people feel this is a singular event, others a lifelong pursuit. What say ye?

I will only cite this one verse for now, but there are many more:

2 Nephi 31:13
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

[h_p]

It's probably more like this than anyone wants to admit:

elephant.jpg (30.62 KiB) Viewed 1104 times

[Alexander]

The baptism of fire and Holy Ghost is once received.

The baptism of fire however, can be received at various times.

[Luke]

Baptism of fire and HG/justification is a one time event

Sanctification is a process

[John Tavner]

A singular event, but it is a lifetime process of keeping the faith. I don't believe sanctification is a process either. Either you are Holy and sanctified or you are not. Either the blood of Jesus works or it doesn't. Now from our holiness which Jesus Gives us if we believe, then we can move from grace to grace and better learn how to "captivate every thought" which is not of God. Either we are the Holy Temple of God or we aren't. Moving from grace to grace though, is something that empowers us to fully embrace the Image of God so that when we see Him , we will see that we are like Him. At least that is my belief which has evolved over time.

[Alexander]

Baptism of fire and HG/justification is a one time event

Sanctification is a process

I mean, justification happens at several integral levels. One must become justified (granted access) to each blessing of exaltation/progression; each ascension through the stations.

[Luke]

Baptism of fire and HG/justification is a one time event

Sanctification is a process

I mean, justification happens at several integral levels. One must become justified (granted access) to each blessing of exaltation/progression; each ascension through the stations.

Yeah it seems like justification is synonymous with overcoming another level

[Alexander]

Baptism of fire and HG/justification is a one time event

Sanctification is a process

I mean, justification happens at several integral levels. One must become justified (granted access) to each blessing of exaltation/progression; each ascension through the stations.

Yeah it seems like justification is synonymous with overcoming another level

And it is by the Holy Spirit of promise that we are justified in each progressive level. (Moses 6:59-60)

[Reluctant Watchman]

Thus far the polling suggests this is a singular event. If this is the case, then is anyone interested in sharing their experience of baptism of fire?

[HeberC]

When it happened to me, the burning was inside and all around me, yet, it was much more powerful in my heart. I didn't know what it was. It continued until I got off of my knees. It continued when I knelt, again. At that point, I knew that God answers prayers and He would reveal His plan for me, shortly. I knew that Jesus Christ is real.

In retrospect, if I had stayed on my knees the Baptism of Fire would have morphed into the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, but like I said, I didn't know what was happening. I was satisfied with the answers I got, at that time, so I stood up and it ended.

[Cruiserdude]

The baptism of fire and Holy Ghost is once received.

The baptism of fire however, can be received at various times.

I think this is how I see it as well

[Niemand]

Everyone is a work in progress. However, I do believe there is a one off event. Simply following orders and tradition won't get you there. Intent and faith will.

You can be dunked at eight, serve a mission at eighteen and die at eighty, and never receive it once, if you just go through the motions. It can happen before the water baptism too, contrary to orthodox LDS belief.

[ransomme]

I think that there is a specific one-time event. Also that one may be filled with the Spirit after that pattern to similar effect. Probably in the same way that Alexander and Luke are saying.

I've shared this once some time ago elsewhere in these pages. For me my experience is somewhat after the pattern of Joseph and Lehi.

Mine started in a dream, a waking-dream between sleep and full consciousness. I recall becoming completely aware of my state (btw I have lots of experience with full control lucid dreaming). The problem was that I couldn't wake. At that time I was near fully paralyzed. Similar to but consciously different from "normal" paralysis dreams which I also have had. This was accompanied by and seemingly caused by a very oppressive gloom, a consuming darkness, by arms of despair. After struggling against those invisible bonds for what seemed like minutes off conscious time, where I tried to scream for help, move, and wake all to no avail I began to pray for deliverance. That prayer was guided into specific thoughts and appeals for forgiveness. Then there was a moment of submission as best as I am able to put it into words. Everything I mentioned before intensified until a moment of sudden and equally intense burning and peace filled every space of me. I felt the forgiveness. It wasn't words but the thoughts and impressions were crystal clear. I was awake at this point, which happened at sometime completely imperceptibly. That burning and peace continued as I lied there fully awake, completely comforted. After a short while I turned over and got to my knees and offered a prayer of gratitude. The intensity gently subsided. That moment has remained a beacon, clear and undeniable, in my life ever since.

[John Tavner]

Thus far the polling suggests this is a singular event. If this is the case, then is anyone interested in sharing their experience of baptism of fire?

I can't remember where, but it was near one of hte last posts Stahura made, but if you look up his name on the Forum, *or the new iteration of his name, I think he changed it to Zathura towards the end, he posted a few things on it a got a lot of people's testimonies (including mine) on their baptism of fire and teh Holy GHost experience.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Something I’ve been reading:

“And if they offer unto me a sacrifice measured equal for repentance, even a contrite and humble spirit, the Elohim will bestow upon them the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

Wherefore, the baptism of water is their declaration of the covenant and the Baptism of Fire is the declaration of Elohim that they shall endure to the finishing of the work and become even as They are.”

[Reluctant Watchman]

And a follow up to the previous:

“Now, after that you have baptized them thou shalt lay thine hands upon them and bless them and sharply exhort them to receive the Holy Ghost. And if they offer unto Me a sacrifice mete for repentance, even a contrite and humble spirit, My Father shall bestow upon them the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Wherefore, the baptism of water is their declaration of the covenant and the baptism of fire is My Father's declaration that they shall endure to the finishing of the work and become even as He is.

Behold, this is My doctrine, and I shall show other doctrine to those who come unto Me. Yea, whoso cometh unto Me shall speak with the tongues of Angels for they shall see and converse with Angels and shall speak to them as one man speaketh to another. Yea, this is My doctrine and there shall be no other doctrine of baptism given except to those with whom, in my own time, I do make My abode.”

[darknesstolight]

A person can simply believe that the Spirit of Christ is in them and if they believe it fully without any doubt then they will act and do and be as if it is so and it will be so.

Sometimes you need to be convinced.

Some don't ever believe it.

But however you got there and you now believe without any doubt the Spirit of Christ is in you then you will live by that Spirit.

As you live by the Spirit which you fully and without any doubt believe possess you, in this case Christ, your flesh will follow along and obey the will of the Spirit. You control your mind and you control your body. Spirit and mind are connected. Details don't matter.

The Spirit as we listen to that Spirit of Christ in us because we believe will be as our own conscience and our instinct and it will be our intelligence too and if we believe we are possessed by the Spirit of Christ we will trust our conscience, our own instinct, and our own intelligence, because it will be One with God.

And the Spirit does not flee at the first sign of horror. God knows we must all learn as we learn how to distinguish the voice of the Spirit from other voices. And we become more Christ like by and by in all things and in all ways as we experience problems and overcome them listening to our conscience, our instinct, our intelligence, which we believe nothing doubting, to be enlightened by Christ.

...

[cab]

And a follow up to the previous:

“Now, after that you have baptized them thou shalt lay thine hands upon them and bless them and sharply exhort them to receive the Holy Ghost. And if they offer unto Me a sacrifice mete for repentance, even a contrite and humble spirit, My Father shall bestow upon them the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Wherefore, the baptism of water is their declaration of the covenant and the baptism of fire is My Father's declaration that they shall endure to the finishing of the work and become even as He is.

Behold, this is My doctrine, and I shall show other doctrine to those who come unto Me. Yea, whoso cometh unto Me shall speak with the tongues of Angels for they shall see and converse with Angels and shall speak to them as one man speaketh to another. Yea, this is My doctrine and there shall be no other doctrine of baptism given except to those with whom, in my own time, I do make My abode.”

There just might be more truth in these two paragraphs than any conference talk we can remember.

I need to spend more time on these “records”.

[cab]

I view it as an event that is often the culmination of a process. Like when a baby is born after the tedious and difficult process of pregnancy.

The church seems to believe we stay pregnant forever and the miraculous new birth never really happens.

[BruceRGilbert]

Moses 6:
64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.
65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.
66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Moses 6:
61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Being quickened in the inner man can happen many times until there is a ""fulness"" of quickening. That event would be a ""transfiguration"" or ""translation."" It happened to Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration according to the record.

Matthew 17:
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Elder Bednar said in his April 2020 Conference talk that this is where Peter, James and John received the fulness of the Priesthood. According to scripture, this did not happen until they received the sealing power which is outlined in Matthew 18 --- It was Christ who received the Fulness of the Priesthood on the Mount. The Prophets spoke to Him.

Matthew 18:
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Further, they did not experience the Baptism of Fire until the Pentecost.

[John Tavner]

I view it as an event that is often the culmination of a process. Like when a baby is born after the tedious and difficult process of pregnancy.

The church seems to believe we stay pregnant forever and the miraculous new birth never really happens.

Makes sense... like being born again... sometimes the births and gestation periods happen faster for some than others, but we all come out new babies.

[HeberC]

OK, I should add this: Some people believe the BoF and the BotHG are two separate things. I don't know, but the BoF was extremely powerful and it happened, not when I experienced a broken heart and a contrite spirit and prayed with all my heart, but it happened the instant my knees touched the ground. There was no hesitation on the Lord's part and there was no mistaking on my part. Although I didn't know what this was, when it happened, I knew that God answered my prayer, Jesus Christ is real and and He would spell out His plan for my life in the near future. This was a literal knowing, on my part, and the Holy Ghost's influence is one of pure intelligence, so there was a baptism of fire AND a baptism of the Holy Ghost going on at the same time.

So far, it has been a one time event.

[I Dont Know...]

The baptism of fire and Holy Ghost is once received.

The baptism of fire however, can be received at various times.

...from personal experience I have received the BOHG once...I have received the BOF...many times...

[cab]

I view it as an event that is often the culmination of a process. Like when a baby is born after the tedious and difficult process of pregnancy.

The church seems to believe we stay pregnant forever and the miraculous new birth never really happens.

Makes sense... like being born again... sometimes the births and gestation periods happen faster for some than others, but we all come out new babies.

And when a woman is pregnant, we're never really focusing on the pregnancy itself - but on what we KNOW and ANTICIPATE the trial of pregnancy is meant to produce... Oh how I wish we (as Mormons) didn't lose sight of the intended purpose of everything that we do - to produce new spiritually begotten babes in Christ...

We are constantly taught that coming to Christ is a PROCESS.... And so it seems that we in the church stay forever pregnant with potential, but so seldom are people actually spiritually DELIVERED...

[Perched Eagle]

Mine happened at about the half-way mark on my mission when I said a quick mental prayer right before baptizing a lady. Very much like HeberC described above — only add in the most pure joy I’d ever felt which seemed to radiate around me for almost three days. It was strong and very real.