Pluck Out Your Seers

[FrankOne]

Pluck out your idols undeserving of the title seer and lose your illusions





Too many of us dwindle in unbelief and maintain an exaggeration, maintain a hindrance, by living these inspired lines from the classic Guns N' Roses track, Locomotive

You can use your illusion -
Let it take you where it may
We live and learn
And then sometimes it's best to walk away
Me I'm just here hangin' on
It's my only place to stay at least
For now anyway
I've worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away

"I've worked too hard for my illusions just to throw them all away."

Good post.
As I was waking up one morning, a few weeks ago, I felt someone say to me “everything around you is an illusion except God.” It was pretty interesting.

a thumbs up wasn't enough.

I would consider that perfect inspiration but it's not really helpful for the average person.

have you seen the book , "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" by Richard Bach ?

[illuminating.Grace]

I was reading some scripture tonight, and came across Jeremiah 23, this is prophesy that seems to expound on the church's leadership / presidents.

A Seer is greater than a prophet, but I think this is still an understandable reference.

Jeremiah 23
8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
9 ¶ Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness.
10 For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.
12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.
13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
15 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.
16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
23 Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off?
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.
25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.

29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.
33 ¶ And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the Lord? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the Lord.
34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the Lord, I will even punish that man and his house.
35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the Lord answered? and, What hath the Lord spoken?
36 And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man’s word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.
37 Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the Lord answered thee? and, What hath the Lord spoken?
38 But since ye say, The burden of the Lord; therefore thus saith the Lord; Because ye say this word, The burden of the Lord, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the Lord;
39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:
40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

[BeNotDeceived]

Those who are appointed to see

Birth Announcement of John the Baptist

5 During the reign[a] of Herod king of Judea, there lived a priest named Zechariah who belonged to[c] the priestly division of Abijah,[d] and he had a wife named Elizabeth,[e] who was a descendant of Aaron.[f] 6 They[g] were both righteous in the sight of God, following[h] all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blamelessly. 7 But they did not have a child, because Elizabeth was barren,[j] and they were both very old.[k]

8 Now[l] while Zechariah[m] was serving as priest before God when his division was on duty,[n] 9 he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood,[o] to enter[p] the Holy Place[q] of the Lord and burn incense. 10 Now[r] the whole crowd of people were praying[t] outside at the hour of the incense offering. 11 An[v] angel of the Lord,[w] standing on the right side of the altar of incense, appeared[x] to him. 12 And Zechariah, visibly shaken when he saw the angel,[y] was seized with fear.[z] 13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard,[aa] and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son; you[ab] will name him John.[ac] 14 Joy and gladness will come[ad] to you, and many will rejoice at[ae] his birth,[af] 15 for he will be great in the sight of[ag] the Lord. He[ah] must never drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even before his birth.[ai] 16 He[aj] will turn[ak] many of the people[al] of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go as forerunner before the Lord[am] in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just,[an] to make ready for the Lord a people prepared for him.”

18 Zechariah[ao] said to the angel, “How can I be sure of this?[ap] For I am an old man, and my wife is old as well.”[aq] 19 The[ar] angel answered him, “I am Gabriel, who stands[as] in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you and to bring[at] you this good news. 20 And now,[au] because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time,[av] you will be silent, unable to speak,[aw] until the day these things take place.”

21 Now[ax] the people were waiting for Zechariah, and they began to wonder[ay] why he was delayed in the Holy Place.[az] 22 When[ba] he came out, he was not able to speak to them. They[bb] realized that he had seen a vision[bc] in the Holy Place,[bd] because[be] he was making signs to them and remained unable to speak.[bf] 23 When his time of service was over,[bg] he went to his home.

24 After some time[bh] his wife Elizabeth became pregnant,[bi] and for five months she kept herself in seclusion.[bj] She said,[bk] 25 “This is what[bl] the Lord has done for me at the time[bm] when he has been gracious to me,[bn] to take away my disgrace[bo] among people.”[bp]

Read full chapter

How was Zechariah appointed?

[Mamabear]

Pluck out your idols undeserving of the title seer and lose your illusions





Too many of us dwindle in unbelief and maintain an exaggeration, maintain a hindrance, by living these inspired lines from the classic Guns N' Roses track, Locomotive

You can use your illusion -
Let it take you where it may
We live and learn
And then sometimes it's best to walk away
Me I'm just here hangin' on
It's my only place to stay at least
For now anyway
I've worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away

"I've worked too hard for my illusions just to throw them all away."

Good post.
As I was waking up one morning, a few weeks ago, I felt someone say to me “everything around you is an illusion except God.” It was pretty interesting.

a thumbs up wasn't enough.

I would consider that perfect inspiration but it's not really helpful for the average person.

have you seen the book , "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" by Richard Bach ?

No I haven’t.

[Cruiserdude]

Pluck out your idols undeserving of the title seer and lose your illusions





Too many of us dwindle in unbelief and maintain an exaggeration, maintain a hindrance, by living these inspired lines from the classic Guns N' Roses track, Locomotive

You can use your illusion -
Let it take you where it may
We live and learn
And then sometimes it's best to walk away
Me I'm just here hangin' on
It's my only place to stay
At least for now anyway
I've worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away

"I've worked too hard for my illusions just to throw them all away."

I love the 'use your illusions' albums. Many of the lyrics in the 'Use your illusion' albums are top notch...including this one you've shown. 'Estranged' has great lyrics too
But yeah your more specific point on this song's lyrics is accurate. We love living in the illusions we create. It's how we handle and deal with reality, it seems.

[BuriedTartaria]

I love the 'use your illusions' albums. Many of the lyrics in the 'Use your illusion' albums are top notch...including this one you've shown. 'Estranged' has great lyrics too

Yes! Appetite For Destruction will always be the album they are best known for but the Illusion albums are what I prefer. They are fantastic. It's amazing they followed up Appetite For Destruction with these amazing albums!!!!

[Mindfields]

The church intro to that JST is quite insightful:

“Jesus compares cutting off an offending hand or foot to discontinuing associations that may lead one astray.”

Which of the three symbolic body parts was conveniently left out by the church? They are not ignorant, they know what Jesus taught. How ironic they used the phrase “may lead one astray.”

👁
Too funny!

One of the greatest forms of a lie is the omission.

The Mormon church excels in such lies.

[Mindfields]

“From him [Joseph Smith] I learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on the earth, and that without obedience to that principle no man can ever attain to the fulness of exaltation in celestial glory.” (William Clayton, 16 February 1874, as quoted in Historical Record, Vol. 6, Nos. 3-5, pg. 226, May 1887)

“William Clayton” need I say more?

noun
a person who tells lies.
"William Clayton was a notorious liar"

[Shawn Henry]

How was Zechariah appointed?

How appointments occur and what revelations are invovled and whether different callings have different criteria is hard to say from the Bible, though having an angel appear does help.

In this dispensation, the Lord set a clear pattern in the D&C, so thankfully there is that.

[Niemand]

Pluck out your idols undeserving of the title seer and lose your illusions





Too many of us dwindle in unbelief and maintain an exaggeration, maintain a hindrance, by living these inspired lines from the classic Guns N' Roses track, Locomotive

You can use your illusion -
Let it take you where it may
We live and learn
And then sometimes it's best to walk away
Me I'm just here hangin' on
It's my only place to stay
At least for now anyway
I've worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away

"I've worked too hard for my illusions just to throw them all away."

Lost in the Garden of Eden is probably the most appropriate track from the Illusion albums.

(Not sure I can recommend them though. A lot of filth and swearing on the albums... prob not church standard.)

[BuriedTartaria]

have you seen the book , "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" by Richard Bach ?

The author sounds familiar but I've never heard of the book. What is it about?

Lost in the Garden of Eden is probably the most appropriate track from the Illusion albums.

(Not sure I can recommend them though. A lot of filth and swearing on the albums... prob not church standard.)

Yeah, I did not enjoy the swearing they got into. I love the Illusion albums but a music critic made a great observation on how giving in to raw, uncouth swearing was a step down for them. The critic gave the example of how they went from something more subtle and artistic like "feel my serpentine" on Appetite for Destruction, to lazy, foul swearing on some of their songs on the Illusion albums.

[Luke]

“From him [Joseph Smith] I learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on the earth, and that without obedience to that principle no man can ever attain to the fulness of exaltation in celestial glory.” (William Clayton, 16 February 1874, as quoted in Historical Record, Vol. 6, Nos. 3-5, pg. 226, May 1887)

“William Clayton” need I say more?

noun
a person who tells lies.
"William Clayton was a notorious liar"

It seems that people routinely assert that on this forum, but with very little evidence to show for it.

[Reluctant Watchman]

noun
a person who tells lies.
"William Clayton was a notorious liar"

It seems that people routinely assert that on this forum, but with very little evidence to show for it.

Spoken by someone who believes lying for the Lord is ok.

[Luke]

noun
a person who tells lies.
"William Clayton was a notorious liar"

It seems that people routinely assert that on this forum, but with very little evidence to show for it.

Spoken by someone who believes lying for the Lord is ok.

False accusation. I’ve never said such things. You misrepresent what I believe entirely.

And this doesn’t address my point either. Deflection tactics.

[Reluctant Watchman]

False accusation. I’ve never said such things. You misrepresent what I believe entirely.

And this doesn’t address my point either. Deflection tactics.

You have repeatedly said that it was ok for Joseph to lie about polygamy.

[Luke]

False accusation. I’ve never said such things. You misrepresent what I believe entirely.

And this doesn’t address my point either. Deflection tactics.

You have repeatedly said that it was ok for Joseph to lie about polygamy.

I have said that it may have been a mistake. But that Joseph felt that it was the best thing to do.

Go and read up on my posts and you’ll find me saying this consistently.

[Reluctant Watchman]

False accusation. I’ve never said such things. You misrepresent what I believe entirely.

And this doesn’t address my point either. Deflection tactics.

You have repeatedly said that it was ok for Joseph to lie about polygamy.

I have said that it may have been a mistake. But that Joseph felt that it was the best thing to do.

Go and read up on my posts and you’ll find me saying this consistently.

I literally asked you if you were ok with him lying, and you said "Yes." I'm pretty sure that was on more than one occasion. Definitely once.

[BeNotDeceived]

How was Zechariah appointed?

How appointments occur and what revelations are invovled and whether different callings have different criteria is hard to say from the Bible, though having an angel appear does help.

In this dispensation, the Lord set a clear pattern in the D&C, so thankfully there is that.

Said clear pattern goes hand in hand and with a totally legitimate church, which hasn’t existed for many decades. Many people snap a picture from near the base of the survivor tree/tupelo, but only one shows an ATI at a most peculiar time as per my website. At the time I was an ordained Teacher in the Aaronic Priesthood whose members are specifically gifted with the ministry of angels, such as the one that revealed when the seventh seal opened. Some interesting similarities.

[BuriedTartaria]

How was Zechariah appointed?

How appointments occur and what revelations are invovled and whether different callings have different criteria is hard to say from the Bible, though having an angel appear does help.

In this dispensation, the Lord set a clear pattern in the D&C, so thankfully there is that.

Said clear pattern goes hand in hand and with a totally legitimate church, which hasn’t existed for many decades. Many people snap a picture from near the base of the survivor tree/tupelo, but only one shows an ATI at a most peculiar time as per my website. At the time I was an ordained Teacher in the Aaronic Priesthood whose members are specifically gifted with the ministry of angels, such as the one that revealed when the seventh seal opened. Some interesting similarities.

Just tell me if I should have hope for a better future

[Luke]

False accusation. I’ve never said such things. You misrepresent what I believe entirely.

And this doesn’t address my point either. Deflection tactics.

You have repeatedly said that it was ok for Joseph to lie about polygamy.

I have said that it may have been a mistake. But that Joseph felt that it was the best thing to do.

Go and read up on my posts and you’ll find me saying this consistently.

I literally asked you if you were ok with him lying, and you said "Yes." I'm pretty sure that was on more than one occasion. Definitely once.

Ah but that’s different though.

Whether I’m okay with it, and whether something is actually okay are two different things. I’m willing to throw a cloak of charity over Joseph’s faults.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Ah but that’s different though.

Whether I’m okay with it, and whether something is actually okay are two different things. I’m willing to throw a cloak of charity over Joseph’s faults.

You can justify any sin w/ that type of reasoning.

[BeNotDeceived]

Said clear pattern goes hand in hand and with a totally legitimate church, which hasn’t existed for many decades. Many people snap a picture from near the base of the survivor tree/tupelo, but only one shows an ATI at a most peculiar time as per my website. At the time I was an ordained Teacher in the Aaronic Priesthood whose members are specifically gifted with the ministry of angels, such as the one that revealed when the seventh seal opened. Some interesting similarities.

Just tell me if I should have hope for a better future

Where I was once taught, there I will now teach.

My Patriarchal Blessing commanded that I continue my career in electronics. Supposedly I went from being an ordained teacher to an elder, but the continuance of the Melchizedek Priesthood is doubtful. So it seems that I am still a teacher. A teacher of electronics as the likely last job in my electronics career.

Only three people participated in the taking of me strange picture. It set the stage for seeing the timing pattern of the earthquake that landed Moroni’s Instrument. Anyone can see both patterns at march8miracle.org.

Thus far I know that the seventh seal opened in 2010 and the identity of the Davidic Servant. From that one may deduce when ASHH will end. Things likely get very rocky then, but subsequently go according to the plans of just and merciful deities. How anyone fares personally depends on their faith, obedience and desires of said deities. May we be ever watchful as things continue to unfold. Perhaps a meeting at the base of said Survivor Tree is in order?

[Luke]

Ah but that’s different though.

Whether I’m okay with it, and whether something is actually okay are two different things. I’m willing to throw a cloak of charity over Joseph’s faults.

You can justify any sin w/ that type of reasoning.

No you can’t, and it wasn’t a sin.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Ah but that’s different though.

Whether I’m okay with it, and whether something is actually okay are two different things. I’m willing to throw a cloak of charity over Joseph’s faults.

You can justify any sin w/ that type of reasoning.

No you can’t, and it wasn’t a sin.

"But.... but... but the Lord wanted me to preach one thing, and then do another secretly." You guys make Joseph sound so stupid given what he actually said on record while he was alive.

[Luke]

Ah but that’s different though.

Whether I’m okay with it, and whether something is actually okay are two different things. I’m willing to throw a cloak of charity over Joseph’s faults.

You can justify any sin w/ that type of reasoning.

No you can’t, and it wasn’t a sin.

"But.... but... but the Lord wanted me to preach one thing, and then do another secretly." You guys make Joseph sound so stupid given what he actually said on record while he was alive.

Doesn’t matter to me what he said in public. He also said that he couldn’t say many things in public.

The evidence overwhelmingly shows that he was a polygamist and the Spirit bears witness that the doctrine of Plural Marriage is true. That’s two witnesses.

Also no-one, let alone me, said that the Lord told Joseph to deny it in public. I believe that that was Joseph’s decision.