Is RMN really Owl and Key?

For discussion of secret combinations (political, economic, spiritual, religious, etc.) (Ether 8:18-25.)
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Subcomandante
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Subcomandante »

Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:46 am
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:44 am
Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:37 am
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:07 am

I have and stand by that.
D&C 1 - for starters - mentions how the Lord does His work by the weak and places JS into that category.

17 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments;
18 …and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets—
19 The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh—


Not to mention the weak AND the “simple”

23. That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers.
Joseph Smith was the catalyst. But let's not be ridiculous either in saying that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young could run today's Church, because they could not. Russell M. Nelson couldn't run the Church back in Joseph's day either, to be fair.

Russell Nelson could be described by many today as weak and simple. How is a doctor supposed to have faith, many would question. Is #HearingHim really that simple? Why, yes it is!

And yet, he has brought the gospel to kings and rulers, that have stopped by Salt Lake City, or in the case of Dubai, they flat out invited the Church to construct a temple in their land, no doubt because Russell Nelson exhibited Christlike qualities in mourning with those that mourned and comforted those that needed to be comforted, even though such a gesture would be seen by many Utahns as pandering. GeeR would have a heart attack if I were to show the images which I am speaking about.
Delusion
Reality. If you paid attention to what happens outside the bubble.

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Pazooka
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Pazooka »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:54 am
Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:46 am
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:44 am
Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:37 am

D&C 1 - for starters - mentions how the Lord does His work by the weak and places JS into that category.

17 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments;
18 …and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets—
19 The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh—


Not to mention the weak AND the “simple”

23. That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers.
Joseph Smith was the catalyst. But let's not be ridiculous either in saying that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young could run today's Church, because they could not. Russell M. Nelson couldn't run the Church back in Joseph's day either, to be fair.

Russell Nelson could be described by many today as weak and simple. How is a doctor supposed to have faith, many would question. Is #HearingHim really that simple? Why, yes it is!

And yet, he has brought the gospel to kings and rulers, that have stopped by Salt Lake City, or in the case of Dubai, they flat out invited the Church to construct a temple in their land, no doubt because Russell Nelson exhibited Christlike qualities in mourning with those that mourned and comforted those that needed to be comforted, even though such a gesture would be seen by many Utahns as pandering. GeeR would have a heart attack if I were to show the images which I am speaking about.
Delusion
Reality. If you paid attention to what happens outside the bubble.
You want it both ways. RMN &Co are educated, worldly men able to run the Church today, unlike JS. AND they are, at the same time weak, unlearned and despised by the world. You’re deluded.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Subcomandante »

Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:57 am
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:54 am
Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:46 am
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:44 am

Joseph Smith was the catalyst. But let's not be ridiculous either in saying that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young could run today's Church, because they could not. Russell M. Nelson couldn't run the Church back in Joseph's day either, to be fair.

Russell Nelson could be described by many today as weak and simple. How is a doctor supposed to have faith, many would question. Is #HearingHim really that simple? Why, yes it is!

And yet, he has brought the gospel to kings and rulers, that have stopped by Salt Lake City, or in the case of Dubai, they flat out invited the Church to construct a temple in their land, no doubt because Russell Nelson exhibited Christlike qualities in mourning with those that mourned and comforted those that needed to be comforted, even though such a gesture would be seen by many Utahns as pandering. GeeR would have a heart attack if I were to show the images which I am speaking about.
Delusion
Reality. If you paid attention to what happens outside the bubble.
You want it both ways. RMN &Co are educated, worldly men able to run the Church today, unlike JS. AND they are, at the same time weak, unlearned and despised by the world. You’re deluded.
I don't want it both ways.

To run the Church in today's world, to be able to navigate through all the legal matters that each country has, you better believe that the Church leadership would need to have as much education as they can in legal matters, business matters, and the like.

And yet, outside of the Intermountain West, the Church barely registers with anyone. Oftentimes the first exposure someone gets to the Church, if it's not the missionaries, it is the lurid tales of polygamy and racism that the Church had in the past.

You are not going to get an audience with Shaykh Mohammed bin Zayed anytime soon. But do you know who can? A heart surgeon that also happens to be a global religious leader. (I used that on purpose!)

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Niemand
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Niemand »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:44 am A person that was a member of a fraternity in college, does not necessarily mean that 70 plus years removed from that, that he continue to espouse those principles in public. Ever heard of repentance?
Most of the people who join these either do it for selfish reasons or because of family.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

BOMdotcom wrote: June 30th, 2022, 3:39 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 9:05 pm And Apostle, Elder Robert D. Hales was a Bonesman:


https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=v ... %2C1787334

https://archive.is/aWbyk
Infowarrior82, do you know how this yearbook image was obtained? Does anyone possess the actual yearbook to verify it’s not fake?

If it’s true it’s definitely concerning, so I’d like to know if it’s for real.
The image was obtained by going to the yearbook archives of the University of Utah:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/detail ... ell+nelson

Archived here in case they take it down:

https://archive.ph/KV6o2

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Lineman1012
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Lineman1012 »

Niemand wrote: June 30th, 2022, 5:01 pm I imagine joining Owl and Key is probably a bit like this. (Fairly safe for work)
A good movie to watch that would shed light on this subject is an old Glen Ford movie titled “Brotherhood of the Bell”.

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Lineman1012
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Lineman1012 »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:43 am
Mamabear wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:01 pm Starting with 1984, when RMN was called to be an apostle, take a look at his talks with fresh eyes. There are some alarming things, there. For instance, in this talk - at around the 5 minute mark - he teaches about, instead of prioritizing occupation, family or the Lord, just “meshing them.” As if. And where there should be talk of acquiring knowledge he speaks, instead, of education (which comes through the channels of “a false priesthood” as Nibley put it). There was so much wrong with what he’s teaching just in the first 8 minutes.

How does an apostle of Jesus not know His doctrine? Is it because he was pre-occupied with his extensive formal education? There is something very wrong about it all.
False teachers revere secular learning.
There are many layers of alarming things that have been in front of us. I feel was blinded by all of them.
Secular learning is what allows the Church to continue to function as a global Church. Joseph Smith would not be able to run today's Church with all of its complexities, unless he were to surround himself with the types of people that are Church leaders today, with all their learning.

14 out of the 15 people in the Q12 and FP have university degrees. The one loner has regretted not getting the degrees that he wanted to get. What does that tell you? Education is important in this day and age.
You’re right, “a man cannot preach unless he’s been TRAINED for the ministry “. How could the Lord ever use an unlearned man?

What would the church look like if the leadership was made up of farmers, construction workers, mechanics and barbers, instead or doctors, lawyers and educators?

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Subcomandante
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Subcomandante »

Lineman1012 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:59 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:43 am
Mamabear wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:01 pm Starting with 1984, when RMN was called to be an apostle, take a look at his talks with fresh eyes. There are some alarming things, there. For instance, in this talk - at around the 5 minute mark - he teaches about, instead of prioritizing occupation, family or the Lord, just “meshing them.” As if. And where there should be talk of acquiring knowledge he speaks, instead, of education (which comes through the channels of “a false priesthood” as Nibley put it). There was so much wrong with what he’s teaching just in the first 8 minutes.

How does an apostle of Jesus not know His doctrine? Is it because he was pre-occupied with his extensive formal education? There is something very wrong about it all.
False teachers revere secular learning.
There are many layers of alarming things that have been in front of us. I feel was blinded by all of them.
Secular learning is what allows the Church to continue to function as a global Church. Joseph Smith would not be able to run today's Church with all of its complexities, unless he were to surround himself with the types of people that are Church leaders today, with all their learning.

14 out of the 15 people in the Q12 and FP have university degrees. The one loner has regretted not getting the degrees that he wanted to get. What does that tell you? Education is important in this day and age.
You’re right, “a man cannot preach unless he’s been TRAINED for the ministry “. How could the Lord ever use an unlearned man?

What would the church look like if the leadership was made up of farmers, construction workers, mechanics and barbers, instead or doctors, lawyers and educators?
Doctrine and Covenants 11:21 for the first question.

The Church would still be a largely Utah institution for the second question.

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TheDuke
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by TheDuke »

Anyone who has been to Dubai knows it is run by evil people, that are twisted and running around pretending to be kings, due to oil. If you want to say something useful about RMN, try harder than kissing the behind of Saudi royalty. It makes me sick. I'm not being anti-RMN, I'm being truthful. His education seems to hurt more than help. But, he got in because he was SWK's private Dr. Only apostle in modern times (not modern as in JS, but last 100 years or more) to be apostle, w/o being a 70 and learning the ropes and proving himself. Also, bothers me that he was called by magic as SWK woke up just long enough with him in the room to appoint him as the next apostle (along with Oaks), Not sure what to say but I don't fully think the Lord works that way, not too often anyway. Just my opinion. but, maybe I'm jaded as both he and Oaks felt education and job was more important that going on a mission like everyone else. You know, make you're career then give the Lord your time vs. the other way around. Just throwing out concerns. Hope it doesn't come across anti-RMN. I feel he is the Lord's leader, whether by hook or by crook.

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Niemand
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Niemand »

Lineman1012 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:45 pm
Niemand wrote: June 30th, 2022, 5:01 pm I imagine joining Owl and Key is probably a bit like this. (Fairly safe for work)
A good movie to watch that would shed light on this subject is an old Glen Ford movie titled “Brotherhood of the Bell”.
I saw it many years ago. Yes, I think it sums up some of the issues well, while presenting them in a kind of thriller format. I think it was meant as a warning but how effective it's proven I don't know. It's very rarely shown on TV here.

On the other end of the spectrum, I just read Charles Portis' Masters of Atlantis, which is a good parody of these groups... but talks about the non-conspiratorial aspects of these groups, i.e. fake histories, pseudo-mysticism, money grubbing and petty infighting. It's a lot more fun than I'm making it sound.

I imagine these societies have this aspect too. It's a clever strategy financially because they try to go and grab the people they think will be successful, many (but not all) become successful and donate money to buildings etc. Without going into the more complex stuff, it's a kind of labour protection racket and up-market trade union. I suppose they also prove how willing someone is to do silly things and how loyal they can be.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by MikeMaillet »

Merle Travis has a few thoughts on the subject being discussed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpP8GNrIWOY

Merle Travis was a guitarist/singer/raconteur/song writer who had a major influence on 20th century guitarists such as Chet Atkins, Scotty Moore and many others; a true American treasure.

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

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marc
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by marc »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:43 amSecular learning is what allows the Church to continue to function as a global Church. Joseph Smith would not be able to run today's Church with all of its complexities, unless he were to surround himself with the types of people that are Church leaders today, with all their learning...
Joseph wasn't necessarily trying to grow the church. He was tirelessly trying to redeem Zion. But the members polluted their inheritances and forfeited their opportunity.

"Oh, you want religion, do you?"

Yes, Joseph, the members of the church wanted religion instead. A big worldwide religion with churches, temples, and properties dotting the earth. The prosperity gospel is our tenet, of course. Who needs Zion when we have all our beautiful idols?

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Cruiserdude »

marc wrote: July 24th, 2022, 2:16 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:43 amSecular learning is what allows the Church to continue to function as a global Church. Joseph Smith would not be able to run today's Church with all of its complexities, unless he were to surround himself with the types of people that are Church leaders today, with all their learning...
Joseph wasn't necessarily trying to grow the church. He was tirelessly trying to redeem Zion. But the members polluted their inheritances and forfeited their opportunity.

"Oh, you want religion, do you?"

Yes, Joseph, the members of the church wanted religion instead. A big worldwide religion with churches, temples, and properties dotting the earth. The prosperity gospel is our tenet, of course. Who needs Zion when we have all our beautiful idols?
Very astute observation and very well stated, Marc👍

Atrasado
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Atrasado »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:12 pm
Lineman1012 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:59 pm
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:43 am
Mamabear wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:33 pm

False teachers revere secular learning.
There are many layers of alarming things that have been in front of us. I feel was blinded by all of them.
Secular learning is what allows the Church to continue to function as a global Church. Joseph Smith would not be able to run today's Church with all of its complexities, unless he were to surround himself with the types of people that are Church leaders today, with all their learning.

14 out of the 15 people in the Q12 and FP have university degrees. The one loner has regretted not getting the degrees that he wanted to get. What does that tell you? Education is important in this day and age.
You’re right, “a man cannot preach unless he’s been TRAINED for the ministry “. How could the Lord ever use an unlearned man?

What would the church look like if the leadership was made up of farmers, construction workers, mechanics and barbers, instead or doctors, lawyers and educators?
Doctrine and Covenants 11:21 for the first question.

The Church would still be a largely Utah institution for the second question.
D&C 11:21 is talking about learning the words of God, not being trained by a school. One only learns the word of God by the power of the Holy Ghost, for the words of the scriptures only come alive through the ministry of the Holy Ghost.

JuneBug12000
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by JuneBug12000 »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 10:01 am
Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:57 am
Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:54 am
Pazooka wrote: July 1st, 2022, 9:46 am
Delusion
Reality. If you paid attention to what happens outside the bubble.
You want it both ways. RMN &Co are educated, worldly men able to run the Church today, unlike JS. AND they are, at the same time weak, unlearned and despised by the world. You’re deluded.
I don't want it both ways.

To run the Church in today's world, to be able to navigate through all the legal matters that each country has, you better believe that the Church leadership would need to have as much education as they can in legal matters, business matters, and the like.

And yet, outside of the Intermountain West, the Church barely registers with anyone. Oftentimes the first exposure someone gets to the Church, if it's not the missionaries, it is the lurid tales of polygamy and racism that the Church had in the past.

You are not going to get an audience with Shaykh Mohammed bin Zayed anytime soon. But do you know who can? A heart surgeon that also happens to be a global religious leader. (I used that on purpose!)
This statement by Sub sums up the differences between his testimony and mine.

He is trusting in the arm of flesh to build the kingdom of God. And that is a hope without foundation. It cannot help but fail.

I am trusting in God to build His kingdom, because no man has the power to do so. It is only by God that miracles are performed, including the miracle of building God's Kingdom. Glory be to the One True God!

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Fred
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Fred »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:44 am A person that was a member of a fraternity in college, does not necessarily mean that 70 plus years removed from that, that he continue to espouse those principles in public. Ever heard of repentance?
Blood oaths with satan do not expire.

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marc
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by marc »

Yes, Skull and Bones, also. Flip to page 48 of his out of print Autobiography:

https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... -m.-nelson

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

marc wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:07 am Yes, Skull and Bones, also. Flip to page 48 of his out of print Autobiography:

https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... -m.-nelson
No wonder it's out of print.
Skimmed a few pages ---
Heavy on the Auto/self-aggrandizement
He and wife selling their blood to get out of debt of $48.--
Blah blah blah

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

marc wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:07 am Yes, Skull and Bones, also. Flip to page 48 of his out of print Autobiography:

https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... -m.-nelson
So, he's a gadianton robber after all..... it all makes sense now.

I archived this here:

https://archive.ph/aon6Q


Take your vitamins! *wink wink smile wink*

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

Mamabear wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:01 pm Starting with 1984, when RMN was called to be an apostle, take a look at his talks with fresh eyes. There are some alarming things, there. For instance, in this talk - at around the 5 minute mark - he teaches about, instead of prioritizing occupation, family or the Lord, just “meshing them.” As if. And where there should be talk of acquiring knowledge he speaks, instead, of education (which comes through the channels of “a false priesthood” as Nibley put it). There was so much wrong with what he’s teaching just in the first 8 minutes.

How does an apostle of Jesus not know His doctrine? Is it because he was pre-occupied with his extensive formal education? There is something very wrong about it all.
False teachers revere secular learning.
There are many layers of alarming things that have been in front of us. I feel was blinded by all of them.
Tell tale heart

endlessQuestions
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by endlessQuestions »

“Joseph Smith would not be able to run today's Church with all of its complexities”

That is a far more profound statement than I think you understand.

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ransomme
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by ransomme »

Subcomandante wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:43 am
Mamabear wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 30th, 2022, 6:01 pm Starting with 1984, when RMN was called to be an apostle, take a look at his talks with fresh eyes. There are some alarming things, there. For instance, in this talk - at around the 5 minute mark - he teaches about, instead of prioritizing occupation, family or the Lord, just “meshing them.” As if. And where there should be talk of acquiring knowledge he speaks, instead, of education (which comes through the channels of “a false priesthood” as Nibley put it). There was so much wrong with what he’s teaching just in the first 8 minutes.

How does an apostle of Jesus not know His doctrine? Is it because he was pre-occupied with his extensive formal education? There is something very wrong about it all.
False teachers revere secular learning.
There are many layers of alarming things that have been in front of us. I feel was blinded by all of them.
Secular learning is what allows the Church to continue to function as a global Church. Joseph Smith would not be able to run today's Church with all of its complexities, unless he were to surround himself with the types of people that are Church leaders today, with all their learning.

14 out of the 15 people in the Q12 and FP have university degrees. The one loner has regretted not getting the degrees that he wanted to get. What does that tell you? Education is important in this day and age.
lol, you don't need a 501C and a mega-church. And knowing the quality of Church employees, anyone could do it better hahaha

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

marc wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:07 am Yes, Skull and Bones, also. Flip to page 48 of his out of print Autobiography:

https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... -m.-nelson
Welp there it is!! :!:
How many excuses will people make for this and pretend he isn't one of the elites doing EVERYTHING the elites do?
He is IN THE CLUB guys. So are the rest of them.
Hellowwwwww Mormon 8.
Wakey wakey everyone!

Mamabear
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Mamabear »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: November 10th, 2022, 11:47 am
marc wrote: November 10th, 2022, 9:07 am Yes, Skull and Bones, also. Flip to page 48 of his out of print Autobiography:

https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... -m.-nelson
Welp there it is!! :!:
How many excuses will people make for this and pretend he isn't one of the elites doing EVERYTHING the elites do?
He is IN THE CLUB guys. So are the rest of them.
Hellowwwwww Mormon 8.
Wakey wakey everyone!
We all knew and didn’t need proof…. But it’s nice to have it confirmed.
Saw a copy of this book on Amazon for 2,000. Lol

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Subcomandante
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?

Post by Subcomandante »

I would like to thank you guys for releasing the book.

Now I have a question...

If this guy was really Skull and Bones, Owl and Key, etc. (I don't doubt he is, in fact all the facts point to this being the case), and this was automatically a ticket to the club, how come it took President Nelson 12 years to buy a decent engagement ring for his beloved?

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