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Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 25th, 2022, 8:16 am
by SJR3t2
TheChristian wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 7:08 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 2:47 am
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is an IT not a HE.
IT
2 Nephi (LDS 33:2) (RLDS 15:2) But behold, there are many that DARDEN their HEARTS against the HOLY SPIRIT, that IT hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.
***
2 Nephi (LDS 31:8-9) (RLDS 13:10-11)
8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the HOLY GHOST DESCENDED upon him in the form of a DOVE. 9 And again, IT showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he [Jesus] having set the example before them.
2 Nephi (LDS 32:5) (RLDS 14:6) For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and RECEIVE the HOLY GHOST, IT will SHOW unto you all things what ye SHOULD DO.
Alma (LDS 34:38) (RLDS 16:237-238) That ye CONTEND no more against the HOLY GHOST, but that ye RECEIVE IT, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.
Alma (LDS 39:6) (RLDS 19:8-9) For behold, if ye DENY the HOLY GHOST when IT once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny IT, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.
Moroni (LDS 2:2) (RLDS 2:2) And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall GIVE the HOLY GHOST; and in my name shall ye give IT, for thus do mine apostles.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is the law / Torah.
YHWH’s law / Torah is about love of YHWH and loving others including ourselves. The law / Torah tells us how we are to act / behave in all situations, and thus telling us all things we should do.
In closing may we all be pricked in the hearts to repent and return to YHWH’s law / Torah which teaches us how He wants us to act in all situations to be like Him such that we will recognize Him when He comes that we may live with Him for all eternity.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
The Holy Ghost is a person, He is the divine witness of Jesus of Nazerath, this is something I do know.
It is his joy and His glory to bear witness of our Lord........
I think you didn't read those BoM verses I quoted, or what JS taught on the subject including Lectures on Faith 5
https://seekingyhwh.org/lectures-on-faith/5th/
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 25th, 2022, 8:28 am
by Luke
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:16 am
TheChristian wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 7:08 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 2:47 am
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is an IT not a HE.
IT
2 Nephi (LDS 33:2) (RLDS 15:2) But behold, there are many that DARDEN their HEARTS against the HOLY SPIRIT, that IT hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.
***
2 Nephi (LDS 31:8-9) (RLDS 13:10-11)
8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the HOLY GHOST DESCENDED upon him in the form of a DOVE. 9 And again, IT showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he [Jesus] having set the example before them.
2 Nephi (LDS 32:5) (RLDS 14:6) For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and RECEIVE the HOLY GHOST, IT will SHOW unto you all things what ye SHOULD DO.
Alma (LDS 34:38) (RLDS 16:237-238) That ye CONTEND no more against the HOLY GHOST, but that ye RECEIVE IT, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.
Alma (LDS 39:6) (RLDS 19:8-9) For behold, if ye DENY the HOLY GHOST when IT once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny IT, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.
Moroni (LDS 2:2) (RLDS 2:2) And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall GIVE the HOLY GHOST; and in my name shall ye give IT, for thus do mine apostles.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is the law / Torah.
YHWH’s law / Torah is about love of YHWH and loving others including ourselves. The law / Torah tells us how we are to act / behave in all situations, and thus telling us all things we should do.
In closing may we all be pricked in the hearts to repent and return to YHWH’s law / Torah which teaches us how He wants us to act in all situations to be like Him such that we will recognize Him when He comes that we may live with Him for all eternity.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
The Holy Ghost is a person, He is the divine witness of Jesus of Nazerath, this is something I do know.
It is his joy and His glory to bear witness of our Lord........
I think you didn't read those BoM verses I quoted, or what JS taught on the subject including Lectures on Faith 5
https://seekingyhwh.org/lectures-on-faith/5th/
It’s both.
Yes, Joseph taught the doctrine found in LoF 5, but he also taught that the Holy Ghost was a person.
It’s clearly both.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 25th, 2022, 8:32 am
by BeNotDeceived
Jesus Christ for 38%.
But I don’t really know.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 25th, 2022, 9:08 am
by Reluctant Watchman
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:15 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 5:25 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 2:47 am
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is an IT not a HE.
IT
2 Nephi (LDS 33:2) (RLDS 15:2) But behold, there are many that DARDEN their HEARTS against the HOLY SPIRIT, that IT hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.
***
2 Nephi (LDS 31:8-9) (RLDS 13:10-11)
8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the HOLY GHOST DESCENDED upon him in the form of a DOVE. 9 And again, IT showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he [Jesus] having set the example before them.
2 Nephi (LDS 32:5) (RLDS 14:6) For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and RECEIVE the HOLY GHOST, IT will SHOW unto you all things what ye SHOULD DO.
Alma (LDS 34:38) (RLDS 16:237-238) That ye CONTEND no more against the HOLY GHOST, but that ye RECEIVE IT, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.
Alma (LDS 39:6) (RLDS 19:8-9) For behold, if ye DENY the HOLY GHOST when IT once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny IT, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.
Moroni (LDS 2:2) (RLDS 2:2) And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall GIVE the HOLY GHOST; and in my name shall ye give IT, for thus do mine apostles.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is the law / Torah.
YHWH’s law / Torah is about love of YHWH and loving others including ourselves. The law / Torah tells us how we are to act / behave in all situations, and thus telling us all things we should do.
In closing may we all be pricked in the hearts to repent and return to YHWH’s law / Torah which teaches us how He wants us to act in all situations to be like Him such that we will recognize Him when He comes that we may live with Him for all eternity.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
The Holy Ghost is Spirit, not a law. In fact, in some teachings, it is a race of spirits, or in other words, The Holy Ghost People.
The Holy Spirit is the law and these posts show that from the BoM. If it was a race IT would not be used but THEY OR THEM.
Not necessarily. Just as there are many Gods, so too there are many Spirits.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 25th, 2022, 11:17 am
by TheChristian
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:16 am
TheChristian wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 7:08 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 2:47 am
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is an IT not a HE.
IT
2 Nephi (LDS 33:2) (RLDS 15:2) But behold, there are many that DARDEN their HEARTS against the HOLY SPIRIT, that IT hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.
***
2 Nephi (LDS 31:8-9) (RLDS 13:10-11)
8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the HOLY GHOST DESCENDED upon him in the form of a DOVE. 9 And again, IT showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he [Jesus] having set the example before them.
2 Nephi (LDS 32:5) (RLDS 14:6) For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and RECEIVE the HOLY GHOST, IT will SHOW unto you all things what ye SHOULD DO.
Alma (LDS 34:38) (RLDS 16:237-238) That ye CONTEND no more against the HOLY GHOST, but that ye RECEIVE IT, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.
Alma (LDS 39:6) (RLDS 19:8-9) For behold, if ye DENY the HOLY GHOST when IT once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny IT, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.
Moroni (LDS 2:2) (RLDS 2:2) And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall GIVE the HOLY GHOST; and in my name shall ye give IT, for thus do mine apostles.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is the law / Torah.
YHWH’s law / Torah is about love of YHWH and loving others including ourselves. The law / Torah tells us how we are to act / behave in all situations, and thus telling us all things we should do.
In closing may we all be pricked in the hearts to repent and return to YHWH’s law / Torah which teaches us how He wants us to act in all situations to be like Him such that we will recognize Him when He comes that we may live with Him for all eternity.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
The Holy Ghost is a person, He is the divine witness of Jesus of Nazerath, this is something I do know.
It is his joy and His glory to bear witness of our Lord........
I think you didn't read those BoM verses I quoted, or what JS taught on the subject including Lectures on Faith 5
https://seekingyhwh.org/lectures-on-faith/5th/
Suffice to say a certain man when young asked the Lord Jesus what He looked like in heaven, as he prayed the room began to fill with a great light and he was filled with the power of the Holy ghost, standing nearbye the man was a spirit person, it was from Him that this great power and influence was enamating from and filling the man with joy, love and great power.
The man was shown in open vision heaven and seen Jesus standing in the midst of Angels.
The Spirit person that revealed all this then said " Look your Saviour and you can hold Him as one man holds another"
That Spirit person was the Holy Ghost, doing the Mission He was ordained to do, namely to bear record and give testimony of the Lord Jesus.
And so the Holy ghost is a distinct person from our Lord Jesus, the man seen that Jesus had a body of flesh, were as the Holy ghost had only a body of spirit, yet from the Holy Ghost whom is a person of spirit was this wonderous power flowing forth.
So yes the power flowing from him can be sent by Him any were he sends it forth as He is directed by our Saviour.
Some lean too much apon Joseph Smith and avidly accept all his writings as truth and seek not from the Lord Jesus Himself for wisdom and knowlegde. I am sure the man said as much himself. I am sure that some of the things he wrote or had written on his behalf over the many years were simply his personal opinion and not direct inspiration.
This why the Gift of Discerment and the prayer of Faith are so needfull in these last days, one must obtain inspiration and revelation for ones self, so one can pick out the gold from amongst the mire.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 25th, 2022, 12:11 pm
by BuriedTartaria
This question makes me think of another question. What/who exactly is the Holy Ghost?
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 25th, 2022, 12:20 pm
by BeNotDeceived
Wolfwoman wrote: ↑June 27th, 2022, 5:59 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑June 27th, 2022, 7:42 am
Wolfwoman wrote: ↑June 26th, 2022, 11:34 pm
Mamabear wrote: ↑June 26th, 2022, 7:02 am
I appreciate this, especially the last part. Can you clarify something for me? Does the Holy Spirit dwell inside of us and then when we progress, the second comforter comes and dwells? Is that what you’re saying or am I misunderstanding?
I'm not sure what Seeker is saying, but the Second Comforter cannot dwell inside of you. That is an old sectarian notion and is false, according to Joseph Smith.
"when any man obtains this last Comforter he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him or appear unto him from time to time"
He will appear unto him
from time to time
Then what does the Savior mean when he says this other Comforter will dwell in you? That He will dwell in you?
This is why I feel the HG is vital in answering this question. THEY are the godhead.
I guess in the same way that the Godhead is separate beings, even though they are described as "I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."
I'm changing my answer to the poll though. Instead of Jesus Christ, I think HSOP can be an office and can be filled by a mortal man. For example, "whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven".
Yea, OK.
Changing my vote makes 19% for other.
19 is the common denominator of 38 and 57.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 10:27 am
by SJR3t2
Luke wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:28 am
It’s both.
Yes, Joseph taught the doctrine found in LoF 5, but he also taught that the Holy Ghost was a person.
It’s clearly both.
Joseph Smith never taught the Holy Spirit is a person. LDS D&C 130 was not a revelation, it is a bad transcript of a talk JS gave, and multiple scribes disagree on what he said during it including this point.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
This first comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect but pure intelligence. - Joseph Smith
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 10:28 am
by SJR3t2
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 9:08 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:15 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 5:25 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 2:47 am
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is an IT not a HE.
IT
2 Nephi (LDS 33:2) (RLDS 15:2) But behold, there are many that DARDEN their HEARTS against the HOLY SPIRIT, that IT hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.
***
2 Nephi (LDS 31:8-9) (RLDS 13:10-11)
8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the HOLY GHOST DESCENDED upon him in the form of a DOVE. 9 And again, IT showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he [Jesus] having set the example before them.
2 Nephi (LDS 32:5) (RLDS 14:6) For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and RECEIVE the HOLY GHOST, IT will SHOW unto you all things what ye SHOULD DO.
Alma (LDS 34:38) (RLDS 16:237-238) That ye CONTEND no more against the HOLY GHOST, but that ye RECEIVE IT, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.
Alma (LDS 39:6) (RLDS 19:8-9) For behold, if ye DENY the HOLY GHOST when IT once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny IT, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.
Moroni (LDS 2:2) (RLDS 2:2) And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall GIVE the HOLY GHOST; and in my name shall ye give IT, for thus do mine apostles.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
The Holy Spirit / Ghost is the law / Torah.
YHWH’s law / Torah is about love of YHWH and loving others including ourselves. The law / Torah tells us how we are to act / behave in all situations, and thus telling us all things we should do.
In closing may we all be pricked in the hearts to repent and return to YHWH’s law / Torah which teaches us how He wants us to act in all situations to be like Him such that we will recognize Him when He comes that we may live with Him for all eternity.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
The Holy Ghost is Spirit, not a law. In fact, in some teachings, it is a race of spirits, or in other words, The Holy Ghost People.
The Holy Spirit is the law and these posts show that from the BoM. If it was a race IT would not be used but THEY OR THEM.
Not necessarily. Just as there are many Gods, so too there are many Spirits.
YHWH did set forth judges [elohims] of men, but there is only one Elohim.
Isaiah 43:10 “Ye are My witnesses,” saith the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 10:31 am
by Luke
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:27 am
Luke wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:28 am
It’s both.
Yes, Joseph taught the doctrine found in LoF 5, but he also taught that the Holy Ghost was a person.
It’s clearly both.
Joseph Smith never taught the Holy Spirit is a person. LDS D&C 130 was not a revelation, it is a bad transcript of a talk JS gave, and multiple scribes disagree on what he said during it including this point.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
This first comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect but pure intelligence. - Joseph Smith
There are far more references of Joseph teaching that doctrine than just D&C 130. You can’t just write them all off.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 10:43 am
by SJR3t2
Luke wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:31 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:27 am
Luke wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:28 am
It’s both.
Yes, Joseph taught the doctrine found in LoF 5, but he also taught that the Holy Ghost was a person.
It’s clearly both.
Joseph Smith never taught the Holy Spirit is a person. LDS D&C 130 was not a revelation, it is a bad transcript of a talk JS gave, and multiple scribes disagree on what he said during it including this point.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
This first comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect but pure intelligence. - Joseph Smith
There are far more references of Joseph teaching that doctrine than just D&C 130. You can’t just write them all off.
You know BY modified history and the ones you are claiming are dubious. If you take everything people claim JS said after he died and they claimed to remember 50 years after the fact JS contradicted himself and was crazy. JS taught we are to abide the scriptures not supposed sayings people claim he said after the fact. A focus in this post how the Holy Spirit is the law / Torah mostly from the BoM and explaining the imagery using scriptures not traditions of men.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 11:03 am
by Luke
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:43 am
Luke wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:31 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:27 am
Luke wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:28 am
It’s both.
Yes, Joseph taught the doctrine found in LoF 5, but he also taught that the Holy Ghost was a person.
It’s clearly both.
Joseph Smith never taught the Holy Spirit is a person. LDS D&C 130 was not a revelation, it is a bad transcript of a talk JS gave, and multiple scribes disagree on what he said during it including this point.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
This first comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect but pure intelligence. - Joseph Smith
There are far more references of Joseph teaching that doctrine than just D&C 130. You can’t just write them all off.
You know BY modified history and the ones you are claiming are dubious. If you take everything people claim JS said after he died and they claimed to remember 50 years after the fact JS contradicted himself and was crazy. JS taught we are to abide the scriptures not supposed sayings people claim he said after the fact. A focus in this post how the Holy Spirit is the law / Torah mostly from the BoM and explaining the imagery using scriptures not traditions of men.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
You have literally no way of proving that BY doctored contemporary documents that didn’t come into the hands of the Church until years later. This is ridiculous.
Joseph taught this doctrine.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 12:45 pm
by TheDuke
the HSoP is not identical with HG. HG may be the HSoP or have that as an attribute, but the HG is more than HSoP. And the term Holy Spirit, does not in all writings equal the HG. HS may refer to Jesus himself, depending on the context and translation.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 3:20 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:28 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 9:08 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:15 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2022, 5:25 am
The Holy Ghost is Spirit, not a law. In fact, in some teachings, it is a race of spirits, or in other words, The Holy Ghost People.
The Holy Spirit is the law and these posts show that from the BoM. If it was a race IT would not be used but THEY OR THEM.
Not necessarily. Just as there are many Gods, so too there are many Spirits.
YHWH did set forth judges [elohims] of men, but there is only one Elohim.
Isaiah 43:10 “Ye are My witnesses,” saith the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
I'm sorry my friend, but there are many Gods.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 5:03 pm
by SJR3t2
Luke wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 11:03 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:43 am
Luke wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:31 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:27 am
Joseph Smith never taught the Holy Spirit is a person. LDS D&C 130 was not a revelation, it is a bad transcript of a talk JS gave, and multiple scribes disagree on what he said during it including this point.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/
This first comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect but pure intelligence. - Joseph Smith
There are far more references of Joseph teaching that doctrine than just D&C 130. You can’t just write them all off.
You know BY modified history and the ones you are claiming are dubious. If you take everything people claim JS said after he died and they claimed to remember 50 years after the fact JS contradicted himself and was crazy. JS taught we are to abide the scriptures not supposed sayings people claim he said after the fact. A focus in this post how the Holy Spirit is the law / Torah mostly from the BoM and explaining the imagery using scriptures not traditions of men.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/
You have literally no way of proving that BY doctored contemporary documents that didn’t come into the hands of the Church until years later. This is ridiculous.
Joseph taught this doctrine.
You literally have no way of proving what BY didn't doctor. The Lectures on Faith shows what JS taught along with the BoM and the D&C. LDS D&C 130 is bad transcript of a talk not a revelation and the scribes disagree just about on every point including the Holy Spirit one.
Lectures on Faith was part of the D&C when JS stated this.
https://seekingyhwh.org/lectures-on-faith/
“If any man preaches to you, doctrines contrary to the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or the Book of Doctrine & Covenants, set him down as an imposter…Try them by the principles contained in the acknowledged word of God; if they preach, or teach, or practice contrary to that, disfellowship them; cut them off from among you as useless and dangerous branches.” Joseph Smith, Times & Seasons (maybe vol 5 pg 490)
JS did not break his own rule.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 5:06 pm
by SJR3t2
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 3:20 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:28 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 9:08 am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 8:15 am
The Holy Spirit is the law and these posts show that from the BoM. If it was a race IT would not be used but THEY OR THEM.
Not necessarily. Just as there are many Gods, so too there are many Spirits.
YHWH did set forth judges [elohims] of men, but there is only one Elohim.
Isaiah 43:10 “Ye are My witnesses,” saith the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
I'm sorry my friend, but there are many Gods.
We sure disagree. And you just saying it is not convincing to me. It seems you didn't like the scripture I quoted. Take care. This discussion is going no where.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 26th, 2022, 5:36 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 5:06 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 3:20 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2022, 10:28 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2022, 9:08 am
Not necessarily. Just as there are many Gods, so too there are many Spirits.
YHWH did set forth judges [elohims] of men, but there is only one Elohim.
Isaiah 43:10 “Ye are My witnesses,” saith the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.
I'm sorry my friend, but there are many Gods.
We sure disagree. And you just saying it is not convincing to me. It seems you didn't like the scripture I quoted. Take care. This discussion is going no where.
Are you a trinitarian?
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 27th, 2022, 7:30 am
by SJR3t2
I am a modalist as the scriptures including the BoM and Lectures on Faith teach. I talk about that some in this post
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 27th, 2022, 7:41 am
by Reluctant Watchman
The BoM does not teach Modalism.
Re: Who is the Holy Spirit of promise?
Posted: December 27th, 2022, 9:53 am
by SJR3t2
It does, as does the rest of the cannon. Take care.
[1828 Webster’s Dictionary, PERSONAGE: 1) EXTERIOR APPEARANCE 2) CHARACTER ASSUMED 3) CHARACTER REPRESENTED]
Lectures on Faith 5:2 There are two personages [exterior appearance] who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things … They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit … The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle … possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things … and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind … the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit … being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all …
https://seekingyhwh.org/lectures-on-faith/5th/