Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Alexander
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Bronco73idi wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 10:31 pm
So, let me guess. You're new to this debate and you are only familiar with one side?

Let me recap this idea for you. This argument for the sphere came up in 2015 when flat earth started and was easily countered that same year. I'm surprised this guy isn't aware of that, but then again, when people are convinced that they are right they don't listen to the other side.

So this is a parallel line test. If the sun were millions of miles away, it would indeed prove an arc in the shadows. The entire premise requires the sun to be so far away that the rays come in parallel.

However, when the sun is right here in our own atmosphere, just like we see when we look up, that close proximity does not allow for parallel lines. A close sun would cause different shadow lengths whether it maintained the same altitude or had its own arced path.

There is nothing wrong with researching a counter argument yourself before assuming you understand an issue.

nvr
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Shawn Henry wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 1:30 am
Bronco73idi wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 10:31 pm
So, let me guess. You're new to this debate and you are only familiar with one side?

Let me recap this idea for you. This argument for the sphere came up in 2015 when flat earth started and was easily countered that same year. I'm surprised this guy isn't aware of that, but then again, when people are convinced that they are right they don't listen to the other side.

So this is a parallel line test. If the sun were millions of miles away, it would indeed prove an arc in the shadows. The entire premise requires the sun to be so far away that the rays come in parallel.

However, when the sun is right here in our own atmosphere, just like we see when we look up, that close proximity does not allow for parallel lines. A close sun would cause different shadow lengths whether it maintained the same altitude or had its own arced path.

There is nothing wrong with researching a counter argument yourself before assuming you understand an issue.
I gotta say I admire the consistency of the authoritative, patronizing tones used in responses like this. So if the sun's in our atmosphere and the moon is between us and the sun and the moon is obviously a sphere (along with Mercury and Venus which, like the moon, each make transits between the sun and earth), that still means Earth is different and obviously flat because the earth looks pretty flat from ground-level ?

nvr
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Alexander wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 11:32 pm Image
Nice. Using a sphere to make flat earth possible - should satisfy all sides.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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nvr wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 2:15 am I gotta say I admire the consistency of the authoritative, patronizing tones used in responses like this. So if the sun's in our atmosphere and the moon is between us and the sun and the moon is obviously a sphere (along with Mercury and Venus which, like the moon, each make transits between the sun and earth), that still means Earth is different and obviously flat because the earth looks pretty flat from ground-level ?
I don't mean to sound patronizing. I supposed I do get a little frustrated when someone new jumps in with things we put to bed years ago. It's like you're trying to enjoy advanced math and someone jumps in and says hey, there's an X in your equation. X's are English not Math.

As far as what shape things in the heavens are or what orbits between what, I don't pretend to know. I know the scriptures are clear though that they are all right here in our upper atmosphere.

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CaptainM
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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5 For thus saith the Lord—I, the Lord, am merciful and gracious unto those who fear me, and delight to honor those who serve me in righteousness and in truth unto the end.
6 Great shall be their reward and eternal shall be their glory.
7 And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all things pertaining to my kingdom.
8 Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to come will I show them, even the things of many generations.
9 And their wisdom shall be great, and their understanding reach to heaven; and [b]before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding of the prudent shall come to naught.[/b]
D.&C. 76

32 Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things—
33 Things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof—
34 Things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven.
D.&C. 101

33 And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.
34 And after he was slain I saw the multitudes of the earth, that they were gathered together to fight against the apostles of the Lamb; for thus were the twelve called by the angel of the Lord.
35 And the multitude of the earth was gathered together; and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Behold the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
36 And it came to pass that I saw and bear record, that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world;
and it fell, and the fall thereof was exceedingly great. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
1 Nephi 11

42 And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.
43 But the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them foreve
r—yea, that happiness which is prepared for the saints.
2 Nephi 9

Bronco73idi
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

Post by Bronco73idi »

Shawn Henry wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 1:30 am
Bronco73idi wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 10:31 pm
So, let me guess. You're new to this debate and you are only familiar with one side?

Let me recap this idea for you. This argument for the sphere came up in 2015 when flat earth started and was easily countered that same year. I'm surprised this guy isn't aware of that, but then again, when people are convinced that they are right they don't listen to the other side.

So this is a parallel line test. If the sun were millions of miles away, it would indeed prove an arc in the shadows. The entire premise requires the sun to be so far away that the rays come in parallel.

However, when the sun is right here in our own atmosphere, just like we see when we look up, that close proximity does not allow for parallel lines. A close sun would cause different shadow lengths whether it maintained the same altitude or had its own arced path.

There is nothing wrong with researching a counter argument yourself before assuming you understand an issue.
I was actually looking for the 17 mile lake video that “flat earthers” supposedly did. If they shined a beam across the flat lake at 3 meters high then it should be 3 meters on the other side. It wasn’t, it was higher.

I have done the research, I love seeing both sides to every story and being “gifted” in intelligence, I then can pick via facts….

Oh yeah, I was also in the navy, I was a fire controlman. We fired the guns and got to know the fire control solution (mathematical problem) in great detail.

larsenb
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Shawn Henry wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 3:11 pm
larsenb wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 2:25 pm being able to predict and forecast or adequately explain an incredible plethora of real events and observations.
You have to admit that therein lies your belief that the science provided us is more or less impeccable, that it has been peer reviewed and is solid.

I definitely do not hold that belief.

It is my experience that the science in question has been just as corrupted and targeted by Satan as any other science or world view. Imagine, for example, the crafted and scripted medical science fed to us by Big Pharma and all the money poured into that agenda. Now, imagine the same amount of effort and money poured into all areas of science.
The science of astronomy as it pertains to movements of the earth, planets and our solar system in general is quite impeccable precisely because of its predictive nature. Not much more complicated than that.

If you could really come up w/a better predictive model, I'll be all eyes and ears. But like I've said, above, you've got a very tough row to hoe on that one.

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Baurak Ale
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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In regards to the flat earth theory, I believe only one thing: it was injected into the mainstream to pejorate and discredit anyone who believes in a conspiracy. True conspiracies are now rejected with ridiculous and false ones en mass, just like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

larsenb
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Baurak Ale wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 1:29 pm In regards to the flat earth theory, I believe only one thing: it was injected into the mainstream to pejorate and discredit anyone who believes in a conspiracy. True conspiracies are now rejected with ridiculous and false ones en mass, just like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Amen, and amen to that idea!

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Pazooka
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Baurak Ale wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 1:29 pm In regards to the flat earth theory, I believe only one thing: it was injected into the mainstream to pejorate and discredit anyone who believes in a conspiracy. True conspiracies are now rejected with ridiculous and false ones en mass, just like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I used to think that, too

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Niemand
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Baurak Ale wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 1:29 pm In regards to the flat earth theory, I believe only one thing: it was injected into the mainstream to pejorate and discredit anyone who believes in a conspiracy. True conspiracies are now rejected with ridiculous and false ones en mass, just like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
When I was little, one would barely hear about it at all. It was out there, and I was dimly aware of it, but it was very lowkey. I had a book which mentioned it, but it was like those apple cider vinegar fanatics or western fans of sumo wrestling - you knew they were out there, but you could spend years of your life never hearing about either.

Around 2015 or so, it starts to become high profile. It's suddenly all over mainstream news, with normie presenters talking about it. (Always a bad sign - if you're a threat to the system, they'll normally not talk about it.) Flat Earth societies and groups become myteriously well funded in that time and it gets an international profile. Contrast this with some info on the recent shots, which can be proven with mainstream science (unlike this), but which gets almost no publicity.

The key problem with Flat Earth Theory is that the sheer effort that the elite would be require to suppress the idea would be way more than any payoff they would get in return. I haven't heard a single justification from Flat Earthers that goes any way to explain it - not even the religious one.

Hollow Earth theory is much more entertaining. I'm not really into either, but it makes for better reading/viewing. Flat Earth material tends to be very dull in my experience. The idea of a hollow Earth is also harder to disprove, but has a more fun mythology to go with it.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Bronco73idi wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:07 am I was actually looking for the 17 mile lake video that “flat earthers” supposedly did. If they shined a beam across the flat lake at 3 meters high then it should be 3 meters on the other side. It wasn’t, it was higher.
This will sometimes be the case. Other times it may be lower. Changes in moisture content in the air change trajectory of the laser. Just like looking at a fish in water.

The main point about all the lasers test is that they tend to show flatness. It's an easy thing to show when curvature math dictates we should see an 8 inch difference with just 1 mile. The only partially successful counter claim to the laser tests is that the earth's gravity bends the light to mirror the curvature. A very convenient claim in my opinion.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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larsenb wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 12:38 pm The science of astronomy as it pertains to movements of the earth, planets and our solar system in general is quite impeccable precisely because of its predictive nature. Not much more complicated than that.
This is a logical fallacy. All of astronomy worked exactly the same back when the world thought the earth flat.

There are even mainstream astronomers today who say both a geocentric and a heliocentric view would fit what we see above.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Niemand wrote: June 24th, 2022, 4:18 am The key problem with Flat Earth Theory is that the sheer effort that the elite would be require to suppress the idea would be way more than any payoff they would get in return. I haven't heard a single justification from Flat Earthers that goes any way to explain it - not even the religious one.
If you haven't heard one, you likely haven't been listening.

The heliocentric model has enabled atheism.

There are no atheists in the biblical world view when there is a dome of water over your head. If you are in a giant cage, you know immediately that someone created it and put you in it.

The genesis of atheism is one of Satan's greatest victories.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Shawn Henry wrote: June 24th, 2022, 3:20 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:07 am I was actually looking for the 17 mile lake video that “flat earthers” supposedly did. If they shined a beam across the flat lake at 3 meters high then it should be 3 meters on the other side. It wasn’t, it was higher.
This will sometimes be the case. Other times it may be lower. Changes in moisture content in the air change trajectory of the laser. Just like looking at a fish in water.

The main point about all the lasers test is that they tend to show flatness. It's an easy thing to show when curvature math dictates we should see an 8 inch difference with just 1 mile. The only partially successful counter claim to the laser tests is that the earth's gravity bends the light to mirror the curvature. A very convenient claim in my opinion.
I appreciate and thank you for a real answer and you state the conclusion is your opinion. So many just want to push an agenda. Like I said I have searched both and I searched veganism with an open mind and the lord told me no on both.

This video is a little brase but it gets another excellent point across.

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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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I'll do you one better than the optical laser test. I've written algorithms that use GPS satellite data directly for extreme precisions (on the worst possible day and location of the satellites). The measures of earth surface are so accurate (oblique spheriod) that the shape of the earth is known within inches. So, precise is our understanding of the earth's surface shape that little things (like heating of magma in a caldera) are measured in mm's. In fact, I had to use Einstein's special relativity to decode minute errors that creep up because the speed of the LEO satellites, as slow as they are, eventually becomes a fraction of speed of light over time.................... way, way, more complex that any (mostly average) NASA engineer or scientist could come up with. Sorry, NASA isn't smart enough to lie about things other than to embellish to get more money, but when it comes to making technical BS to stick, they suck (hope there are no NASA engineers on LDS FF) I have worked with many, many of them.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Bronco73idi wrote: June 24th, 2022, 6:32 pm Like I said I have searched both and I searched veganism with an open mind and the lord told me no on both.
Veganism is an easy answer, lol. The scriptures are pretty that domestic animals are for the use of man, but I may be a little bias there.

That's a good topic of discussion in that video, southern flights. There are some good counter arguments to it that I have found. Flight paths in general have been used more so on the flight earth side to question the sphere. There are some really good videos I've seen, but since I'm not really interested in finding them, I'll happily concede the point for now.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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TheDuke wrote: June 24th, 2022, 11:18 pm I've written algorithms that use GPS satellite data directly for extreme precisions
Where do you get the GPS data?

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Niemand
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Shawn Henry wrote: June 24th, 2022, 3:37 pm
Niemand wrote: June 24th, 2022, 4:18 am The key problem with Flat Earth Theory is that the sheer effort that the elite would be require to suppress the idea would be way more than any payoff they would get in return. I haven't heard a single justification from Flat Earthers that goes any way to explain it - not even the religious one.
If you haven't heard one, you likely haven't been listening.

The heliocentric model has enabled atheism.

There are no atheists in the biblical world view when there is a dome of water over your head. If you are in a giant cage, you know immediately that someone created it and put you in it.

The genesis of atheism is one of Satan's greatest victories.
Nope, I've heard this before. Not exactly successful, since most Christians are not Flat Earthers. It is completely irrelevant to my own faith in God one way or the other.

Ask atheists about what made them atheists and not one will tell you a round Earth made them that way.

The problem with the Flat Earth worldview is that it actually does the opposite. It demotes God from being the creator of a huge universe, into a child directing a tiny diorama.

This argument holds no water whatsoever. The effort needed doesn't match the payoff.

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Pazooka
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Niemand wrote: June 25th, 2022, 6:18 am
Shawn Henry wrote: June 24th, 2022, 3:37 pm
Niemand wrote: June 24th, 2022, 4:18 am The key problem with Flat Earth Theory is that the sheer effort that the elite would be require to suppress the idea would be way more than any payoff they would get in return. I haven't heard a single justification from Flat Earthers that goes any way to explain it - not even the religious one.
If you haven't heard one, you likely haven't been listening.

The heliocentric model has enabled atheism.

There are no atheists in the biblical world view when there is a dome of water over your head. If you are in a giant cage, you know immediately that someone created it and put you in it.

The genesis of atheism is one of Satan's greatest victories.
Nope, I've heard this before. Not exactly successful, since most Christians are not Flat Earthers. It is completely irrelevant to my own faith in God one way or the other.

Ask atheists about what made them atheists and not one will tell you a round Earth made them that way.

The problem with the Flat Earth worldview is that it actually does the opposite. It demotes God from being the creator of a huge universe, into a child directing a tiny diorama.

This argument holds no water whatsoever. The effort needed doesn't match the payoff.
It puts our God in His rightful place as master of the house and vineyard.

Most Christians are idolaters and don’t even recognize it.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Shawn Henry wrote: June 24th, 2022, 3:20 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:07 am I was actually looking for the 17 mile lake video that “flat earthers” supposedly did. If they shined a beam across the flat lake at 3 meters high then it should be 3 meters on the other side. It wasn’t, it was higher.
This will sometimes be the case. Other times it may be lower. Changes in moisture content in the air change trajectory of the laser. Just like looking at a fish in water.

The main point about all the lasers test is that they tend to show flatness. It's an easy thing to show when curvature math dictates we should see an 8 inch difference with just 1 mile. The only partially successful counter claim to the laser tests is that the earth's gravity bends the light to mirror the curvature. A very convenient claim in my opinion.
This assumes a parabolic curvature of the earth when in fact we are talking about a spherical curvature.

One which is measured by this formula:

H = R - R cos(S/2R)

where H is the height, R is the radius of the earth (or other spherical object), and S is the length of the arc. The calculation should be done in radians.

You see something 30 km away. Radius of the earth is approx 6400km. So you would have this:

6400 - 6400 cos (30/12800), which would give you a disappearence of 17.5 meters or about six floors of a building.

Chicago is 90 km away from St Joseph Michigan.

6400 - 6400 cos (90/12800), which would give you a disappearence of 158 meters. That's about 50 to 55 floors.

Multiple skyscrapers would still be able to be seen from St Joseph Michigan but many lower structures would not be seen. A picture is attached for reference.
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TheDuke
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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GPS data comes as planned ephemoris or downlinked in the GPS signal. The signal is very, very low noise ratio and so it is very long sequence. I used GPS to determine airplane position relative to a ground target (i.e. end of runway or something like that). You decode the GPS signal is (after you lock on if you're allowed to get mil accuracy). Then you take the info, which gives you sat position and atomic time (with ephemoris already known) along with sat position errors (place keeping) and in my case (you're know ground position) and compute the time delay and range. then you can compute atmospheric delay. Which is the only unknown. Do this for multiple sat and you get a map of atmospheric interference (delays in troposphere and/or ionosphere) and relay those to the incoming airplane. then the relative distances are know in mm. Like I said the computation requires adjusting the atomic clocks a minute amount due to their relative speed of light. It always works out, and in tests we calibrate it. so, you get to see first hand the exact nature of the earth's shapes, as well as exact interference of atmosphere, and the issues of relativity. Leave any one out and the formulas have errors in them. So, side effect of doing this is real-world proof of all that I just said (cannot fake it or the math would fail in too many corner cases).

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Niemand
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

Post by Niemand »

Pazooka wrote: June 25th, 2022, 8:17 am It puts our God in His rightful place as master of the house and vineyard.
More like a dolls' house. You get that either way, with or without a pocket universe.

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Pazooka
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Re: Stew Peters global elite "lie about the shape of the planet"

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Niemand wrote: June 25th, 2022, 1:26 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 25th, 2022, 8:17 am It puts our God in His rightful place as master of the house and vineyard.
More like a dolls' house. You get that either way, with or without a pocket universe.
To me, that demonstrates a lack of appreciation for this creation - which is actually quite vast and miraculous.

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