Be careful about telling the truth...

[Gadianton Slayer]

...or you might be a dissenter.

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture: ‘The wrath of God is…against all…who hold the truth in unrighteousness.’ To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

(Elder Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, p. 69.)

[Gadianton Slayer]

They've got some gems about truth, amiright?

"I also said something else that has excited people: that it’s wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true, because it diminishes their effectiveness as a servant of the Lord."

(Dallin Oaks, 1986)

[JLHPROF]

Are you really unable to see the other side of this argument as having any validity?
You're more intelligent than that.

[NeveR]

Are you really unable to see the other side of this argument as having any validity?
You're more intelligent than that.

What is the other side of the argument? Genuine question

[endlessQuestions]

Gad,

Were you even born when they said these things?

[blitzinstripes]

To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

Well, that's problematic. Because God is a God of TRUTH.

Therefore, the truth cannot pit you against Almighty God.

Truth is truth, and error is error.

Screenshot_20220613-182732.png (159.11 KiB) Viewed 924 times

[marc]

...or you might be a dissenter.

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture: ‘The wrath of God is…against all…who hold the truth in unrighteousness.’ To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

(Elder Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, p. 69.)

Many people have walked this path for the last ten, even thirty years and also others who have passed away. I have been very bold in my blog and in my books. But I have always only published principles over people. I almost never quote a living general authority. I have used plenty of quotes by Joseph Smith and other deceased prophets and leaders with regard to historical contexts. I've seen too many people disciplined for denouncing current leaders and that's their prerogative. But judging or otherwise justifying living leaders does not vindicate or save you. Only Jesus Christ can save you.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Are you really unable to see the other side of this argument as having any validity?
You're more intelligent than that.

This is likely a direct reference to members who find things about early church history to be unsettling. But I’m not going to debate that. The ideology that truth which “destroys faith” (as local leaders have put it to me) must be avoided, is horrific.

Nelson and Co. showed their true colors on this idea by repeatedly making statements like: “don’t rehearse your doubts with other doubters” and “doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.”

This has nothing to do with determining truth, and everything to do with keeping the members from questioning them.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Gad,

Were you even born when they said these things?

Do I need to have been? Or am I just bringing up truth that would make me a dissenter? Does one have to have been born when a statement was made in order to talk about it?

[Gadianton Slayer]

Pretty sure the Lord directed us to “pluck out” those appointed over us when they transgress, which would include “the Lord’s anointed”…

[BuriedTartaria]

Interesting quote. So what is he saying? There is legitimate truth that exists that puts an individual against their claims, and you should be careful not to stand against them because despite truth legitimately standing against their claims (that's how I'm reading the quote, he says "because of truth") they're still the Lord's "anointed"?

[blitzinstripes]

I'm sure this is what Maxwell had in mind when he was sent to deal with the sexual abuse victims accusing GA families of pedophilia.

If you know of truth that could be detrimental to the leadership, better shut your mouth about it.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Interesting quote. So what is he saying? There is legitimate truth that exists that puts an individual against their claims, and you should be careful not to stand against them because despite truth legitimately standing against their claims (that's how I'm reading the quote, he says "because of truth") they're still the Lord's "anointed"?

Because…

“We are distinguished as a Church to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators called of God for this time. I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!”

(October 2021 — Elder Rasband, General Conference “The Things of My Soul”)

[Jashon]

...or you might be a dissenter.

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture: ‘The wrath of God is…against all…who hold the truth in unrighteousness.’ To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

(Elder Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, p. 69.)

The second truth is in quotes in the article, meaning RMN disputes that dissenters have the truth.

But the Romans quote just before that means suppressing the truth, which isn't clear from the KJV reading. It looks like RMN misinterpreted this Romans quote.

Of course the church for many decades suppressed the truth about various historical things, and continues to suppress the truth if it reflects badly on church leadership.

[blitzinstripes]

giphy.gif (1.47 MiB) Viewed 851 times

[Gadianton Slayer]

“…To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

The second truth is in quotes in the article, meaning RMN disputes that dissenters have the truth.

I agree other than this phrase makes it seem like he acknowledges “dissenters” have the truth, and that’s what makes them so.

[randyps]

Well, that's problematic. Because God is a God of TRUTH.

Therefore, the truth cannot pit you against Almighty God.

Truth is truth, and error is error.

The covid vax saves lives, the covid vax kills people, are both true so what side would God be on?

[Gadianton Slayer]

Well, that's problematic. Because God is a God of TRUTH.

Therefore, the truth cannot pit you against Almighty God.

Truth is truth, and error is error.

The covid vax saves lives, the covid vax kills people, are both true so what side would God be on?

[blitzinstripes]

Well, that's problematic. Because God is a God of TRUTH.

Therefore, the truth cannot pit you against Almighty God.

Truth is truth, and error is error.

The covid vax saves lives, the covid vax kills people, are both true so what side would God be on?

Yes. Exactly. His will would be to openly declare your statement (proven to be true), and encourage people to make their own decision (free agency) based on ALL the available facts. The PTB, include the church, painted a very one sided view, suppressed any facts contrary to the narrative, and coerced as many people as possible to get the shots.

[Ado]

...or you might be a dissenter.

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture: ‘The wrath of God is…against all…who hold the truth in unrighteousness.’ To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

(Elder Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, p. 69.)

What is infuriating to me about this is that he is quoting from Romans 1:18 to make his point, twisting what it actually means.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness”
The JST translation says it differently too:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who love not the truth but remain in unrighteousness.”
So this PSR is using the incorrect translation of a Bible verse to scare people away from using truth to dissent against him. Even if we go with the original translation and omit JST, it still doesn’t mean what he says it means. It is referencing those who choose sin rather than truth; those who refuse to know the truth because they’d rather live unrighteously. In other words, their unrighteousness is their truth.
Threatening the tithe payers by misquoting scripture is as wrong as it gets in my opinion.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Interesting quote. So what is he saying? There is legitimate truth that exists that puts an individual against their claims, and you should be careful not to stand against them because despite truth legitimately standing against their claims (that's how I'm reading the quote, he says "because of truth") they're still the Lord's "anointed"?

Because…

“We are distinguished as a Church to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators called of God for this time. I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!”

(October 2021 — Elder Rasband, General Conference “The Things of My Soul”)

[Subcomandante]

...or you might be a dissenter.

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture: ‘The wrath of God is…against all…who hold the truth in unrighteousness.’ To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

(Elder Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, p. 69.)

Alternate Universe: Jerusalem 29 AD

Centurion Severus, Legio X Fretensis: Governor, there is this report of a man who is rousing up the people against the Romans, calling Himself a King. What shall we do, Governor?

Governor Pilatus: Has he condemned Caesar?

Severus: Yes, he tells the people not to pay taxes to such an oppressive individual such as Imperator Caesar Augustus.

Governor Pilatus: Bring him before me.

Within a week of the start of his ministry, even before he could call Apostles, Yeshua ben Maryam has, like many before him, been killed.

But not by a bunch of overzealous priests of the religion of Judaea, but by the Romans, who sought to make an example of those who would rebel against her might. All because Yeshua ben Maryam opened his mouth too much against Rome and dared to have his acts publicized.

Christianity does not have the chance to rise under this setup. Of course, this is an alternate history, but considering what WOULD have happened had Jesus opened His mouth like how the people on this board want the LDS Church to open up theirs, should give the observer pause before they demand more of their leaders.

[endlessQuestions]

Gad,

Were you even born when they said these things?

Do I need to have been? Or am I just bringing up truth that would make me a dissenter? Does one have to have been born when a statement was made in order to talk about it?

Just wondering… (you didn’t answer the question)

[CuriousThinker]

...or you might be a dissenter.

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture: ‘The wrath of God is…against all…who hold the truth in unrighteousness.’ To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action…"

(Elder Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, p. 69.)

What is infuriating to me about this is that he is quoting from Romans 1:18 to make his point, twisting what it actually means.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness”
The JST translation says it differently too:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who love not the truth but remain in unrighteousness.”
So this PSR is using the incorrect translation of a Bible verse to scare people away from using truth to dissent against him. Even if we go with the original translation and omit JST, it still doesn’t mean what he says it means. It is referencing those who choose sin rather than truth; those who refuse to know the truth because they’d rather live unrighteously. In other words, their unrighteousness is their truth.
Threatening the tithe payers by misquoting scripture is as wrong as it gets in my opinion.

Would this be an example of him wresting scripture?

[Lineman1012]

I'm sure this is what Maxwell had in mind when he was sent to deal with the sexual abuse victims accusing GA families of pedophilia.

If you know of truth that could be detrimental to the leadership, better shut your mouth about it.

What about this “If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." J. Reuben Clark

Why should the living church leaders even be worried about what anyone says? Do we not have the truth?