Temples and Domes

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Pazooka
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Temples and Domes

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I just discovered the Salt Lake temple has a “Dome Room” directly above the “Holy of Holies.”

We don’t really do much with domes in temples, these days, besides the Tucson temple, purportedly designed to lend a flavor of Tuscany.

Orson Pratt described the future temple of the New Jerusalem as having 24 buildings “that are all joined together in a circular form and arched over the center.”

John Taylor recorded a dream he’d had of the New Jerusalem temple: “there were a number of towers, placed apparently at equal distances on the outside...from the midst of these towers and in the center of the building arose in majestic grandeur an immense large dome that seemed to tower as high above the towers, as the towers were from the earth.”

Nineteenth century Biblical scholar, Thomas Newberry, created a model of King Solomon’s temple that is now housed in the Metropolitan Museum of Art - it is domed.

And American engineer, Andy Hoy, who studied Hebrew in Israel and discovered Pi among the instructions on how to construct the tabernacle in the wilderness, contends that it is meant to be a giant domed tent instead of the puny, suffocating, rectangular thing that couldn’t possibly withstand desert winds. It would have been a magnificent sight in the wilderness.

Goes against tradition...or does it? Maybe it’s part of a much older tradition that was lost, just like so many other things in temple theology.
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The Dome Room of the SL temple
The Dome Room of the SL temple
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Pazooka
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Re: Temples and Domes

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What a domed Tent of the Congregation would have looked like at night.

Plus side by sides for visual comparison:
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blitzinstripes
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Re: Temples and Domes

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Interesting topic. As far as the photos of the SLC temple, I have read several descriptions of an altar in the HoH, but all I see is a small table in the middle of the room. And where is the veil that separates it from the rest of the temple? Is the celestial room veil utilized to enter the room? I was under the impression that it has its own separate door. Did Nauvoo or Kirtland have dedicated HoH, or did the veil that they used in the solemn assembly room suffice?
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Re: Temples and Domes

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Jefferson built his Temple with a dome. 😁

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Pazooka
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Re: Temples and Domes

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blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 2:58 pm download.jpeg

Jefferson built his Temple with a dome. 😁
So did Jeffrey Epstein :/

I think it hails back to the compass and square - - the circle within the square within the circle within the square... For good or for ill
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blitzinstripes
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Re: Temples and Domes

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Curious side story.....have you ever heard of anyone designating a Holy of Holies in their own home? Dedicating our homes is a common practice in LDS teachings. I met a Patriarch many years ago who not only had dedicated his home, and the office in which he conferred the blessings, but also said that he maintained a room (walk in closet) as his own personal Holy of Holies. He didn't really expound upon what specific purpose he used it for, but I suppose by the meaning of the term, that it was at the very least implied.

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Pazooka
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Re: Temples and Domes

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blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 2:54 pm Interesting topic. As far as the photos of the SLC temple, I have read several descriptions of an altar in the HoH, but all I see is a small table in the middle of the room. And where is the veil that separates it from the rest of the temple? Is the celestial room veil utilized to enter the room? I was under the impression that it has its own separate door. Did Nauvoo or Kirtland have dedicated HoH, or did the veil that they used in the solemn assembly room suffice?
According to what I could find: in the Kirtland temple the assembly halls could be divided using curtains (essentially veils) and on April 3, 1836 the Melchizedek Priesthood pulpits were curtained off with Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery inside when Jesus Christ, Moses, Elias, and Elijah appeared to them, accepted the temple, and conferred priesthood keys and the sealing power.

The original Nauvoo Temple included a sealing room identified as the Holy of Holies. This was room 1 or the clerk's office. It was a sealing room, clerk's office, and Holy of Holies. Apparently it was used so much for the higher ordinances that other rooms had to be used for sealings so the room could be used for the higher ordinances.

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Re: Temples and Domes

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Curious side story.....have you ever heard of anyone designating a Holy of Holies in their own home? Dedicating our homes is a common practice in LDS teachings. I met a Patriarch many years ago who not only had dedicated his home, and the office in which he conferred the blessings, but also said that he maintained a room (walk in closet) as his own personal Holy of Holies. He didn't really expound upon what specific purpose he used it for, but I suppose by the meaning of the term, that it was at the very least implied.


I pondered that alot in the years since. A "prayer sanctuary" could serve a nice purpose. I love to pray in serene and beautiful places, mostly nature settings. But if I could build a small room, maybe face it East to catch the morning sun....maybe even a small, padded kneeling altar, perhaps add a small stained glass window and few plants....one of those little indoor waterfalls.... I do believe I might just spend quite a bit of time in there!

I spoke to a member friend about the idea and he kind of referred to it as a mockery of sacred things. I disagreed. I see it as following a sacred pattern of worship. I even imagine if I did ever build it, I would remove my shoes every time I entered. 😊
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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Temples and Domes

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Pazooka wrote: June 12th, 2022, 2:37 pm I just discovered the Salt Lake temple has a “Dome Room” directly above the “Holy of Holies.”

We don’t really do much with domes in temples, these days, besides the Tucson temple, purportedly designed to lend a flavor of Tuscany.
That's because the Salt Lake City temple is a repurposed, left over building from a buried civilization! Modern-day temples do not match the marble quality or majesty of that temple. That building was inherited, not built!

Research Tartaria and cultural layers/mud floods. *shakes fist at the air*


(I think this is just interesting and I lean towards it being what I believe in but I don't entirely believe and it doesn't bother me at all that people largely don't agree with this theory)
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Pazooka
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Re: Temples and Domes

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blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:06 pm Curious side story.....have you ever heard of anyone designating a Holy of Holies in their own home? Dedicating our homes is a common practice in LDS teachings. I met a Patriarch many years ago who not only had dedicated his home, and the office in which he conferred the blessings, but also said that he maintained a room (walk in closet) as his own personal Holy of Holies. He didn't really expound upon what specific purpose he used it for, but I suppose by the meaning of the term, that it was at the very least implied.
Personally, I think this type of thing only reveals how much we don’t understand about the purpose of the ancient Holy of Holies. Maybe we tend to think of it as a supercharged revelation-receiving area.

The Holy of Holies was the place where the high priest, representing Jesus, entered to offer the blood of sacrifice (in Jesus’ case it was His own) in order to essentially heal all of creation from the effects of the Fall. It preserved them from the curse and allowed God’s presence to abide with them. Revelation wasn’t the prime objective.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Temples and Domes

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BuriedTartaria wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:17 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 12th, 2022, 2:37 pm I just discovered the Salt Lake temple has a “Dome Room” directly above the “Holy of Holies.”

We don’t really do much with domes in temples, these days, besides the Tucson temple, purportedly designed to lend a flavor of Tuscany.

That's because the Salt Lake City temple is a repurposed, left over building from a buried civilization! Modern-day temples do not match marble quality or majesty of that temple. That building was inherited, not built!

Research Tartaria and cultural layers/mud floods. *shakes fist at the air*



(I think this is just interesting and I lean towards it being what I believe in but I don't entirely believe and it doesn't bother me at all that people largely don't agree with this theory)
Except that the historical record of the entire excavation and construction of the SLC temple was well documented. From BY declaring the spot, to the laying of the cornerstone and the mining of granite from the quarry, the construction of the railroad to haul the stones, etc. I suppose the Tartaria theory can make it's case where historical records do not exist, but that clearly isn't the case for the SLC temple.

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Pazooka
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Re: Temples and Domes

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BuriedTartaria wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:17 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 12th, 2022, 2:37 pm I just discovered the Salt Lake temple has a “Dome Room” directly above the “Holy of Holies.”

We don’t really do much with domes in temples, these days, besides the Tucson temple, purportedly designed to lend a flavor of Tuscany.
That's because the Salt Lake City temple is a repurposed, left over building from a buried civilization! Modern-day temples do not match marble quality or majesty of that temple. That building was inherited, not built!

Research Tartaria and cultural layers/mud floods. *shakes fist at the air*


(I think this is just interesting and I lean towards it being what I believe in but I don't entirely believe and it doesn't bother me at all that people largely don't agree with this theory)
I researched Tartaria. In the case of Salt Lake - which is, for me, the easiest and most accessible of the sites touted by Tartarians to research - it doesn’t make any sense. We have the photos and the drawings. We have the journals and the family legends that disprove a pre-existing civilization/city/buildings.

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Re: Temples and Domes

Post by blitzinstripes »

Pazooka wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:18 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:06 pm Curious side story.....have you ever heard of anyone designating a Holy of Holies in their own home? Dedicating our homes is a common practice in LDS teachings. I met a Patriarch many years ago who not only had dedicated his home, and the office in which he conferred the blessings, but also said that he maintained a room (walk in closet) as his own personal Holy of Holies. He didn't really expound upon what specific purpose he used it for, but I suppose by the meaning of the term, that it was at the very least implied.
Personally, I think this type of thing only reveals how much we don’t understand about the purpose of the ancient Holy of Holies. Maybe we tend to think of it as a supercharged revelation-receiving area.

The Holy of Holies was the place where the high priest, representing Jesus, entered to offer the blood of sacrifice (in Jesus’ case it was His own) in order to essentially heal all of creation from the effects of the Fall. It preserved them from the curse and allowed God’s presence to abide with them. Revelation wasn’t the prime objective.
Correct. I typically fail to view it through the lense of the Mosaic law, and tend to view it more as a divine chamber to communicate directly with the Lord.

So, after Jesus fulfilled the law, what direct purpose was revealed pertaining to the HoH in modern temples beyond private use by the Prophet and the second anointings and washing of feet (still done today after you pay enough tithes and are financially successful enough to join the club.)

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Pazooka
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Re: Temples and Domes

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blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:28 pm
Pazooka wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:18 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 3:06 pm Curious side story.....have you ever heard of anyone designating a Holy of Holies in their own home? Dedicating our homes is a common practice in LDS teachings. I met a Patriarch many years ago who not only had dedicated his home, and the office in which he conferred the blessings, but also said that he maintained a room (walk in closet) as his own personal Holy of Holies. He didn't really expound upon what specific purpose he used it for, but I suppose by the meaning of the term, that it was at the very least implied.
Personally, I think this type of thing only reveals how much we don’t understand about the purpose of the ancient Holy of Holies. Maybe we tend to think of it as a supercharged revelation-receiving area.

The Holy of Holies was the place where the high priest, representing Jesus, entered to offer the blood of sacrifice (in Jesus’ case it was His own) in order to essentially heal all of creation from the effects of the Fall. It preserved them from the curse and allowed God’s presence to abide with them. Revelation wasn’t the prime objective.
Correct. I typically fail to view it through the lense of the Mosaic law, and tend to view it more as a divine chamber to communicate directly with the Lord.

So, after Jesus fulfilled the law, what direct purpose was revealed pertaining to the HoH in modern temples beyond private use by the Prophet and the second anointings and washing of feet (still done today after you pay enough tithes and are financially successful enough to join the club.)
John records the moment Jesus appeared in the heavenly Holy of Holies - the throne room:

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne...stood a Lamb as it had been slain...He took the scroll, a legal document - both a contract and a deed. The contract was the everlasting covenant, which He renewed, making it the new and everlasting covenant. And the deed was the rightful ownership of this creation, detailing how “every thief” (child of Hell) and “everyone who swears falsely” shall be evicted at the culmination of the breaking of the seals.

When Jesus renews the covenant and takes up the case/contract, those in heaven were said to have ”sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book...thou hast redeemed us to God by thy blood...and hast made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on earth.” (Rev 5:1-10)

The purpose of the HofH, today, was given in the parable of the nobleman and the trees in D&C 101.

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The purpose of the HofH, today, was given in the parable of the nobleman and the trees in D&C 101.
Help me out, Pazooka. I've never really understood that parable. I went back and read it again, and I'm still not sure I get it.

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Pazooka
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Re: Temples and Domes

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blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 5:02 pm
The purpose of the HofH, today, was given in the parable of the nobleman and the trees in D&C 101.
Help me out, Pazooka. I've never really understood that parable. I went back and read it again, and I'm still not sure I get it.
Ok, so it helps if we take into consideration that D&C 94:19-20 explains that God is Zion’s high tower:

Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place, for God is there, and the hand of the Lord is there; And he hath sworn by the power of his might to be her salvation and her high tower.

It also says earlier in D&C 101 that ”in that day all who are found upon the watch-tower, or in other words, all mine Israel, shall be saved.”

So, as I understand it, the building of the tower is the establishment of God’s presence in the midst of the people - - which is the purpose of the ancient HoH.

Where it gets abstract is in the idea that there are layers of creation - houses within houses:
- You, personally, are a house (tabernacle for God’s spirit) within the larger house of the Lord’s people (church) within a larger house (the great tent of God’s creation)

There’s not much we can do about the destruction of the earth (great tent of God’s creation) or the destruction of the vineyard (church), but you can, personally, be found upon the watchtower, be numbered with “they that remain, and are pure in heart” so that you can “return, and come...with songs of everlasting joy, to build up the waste places of Zion” at the final gathering (D&C 101:18)

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That makes good sense to me. What do you make of the "hedge" that was destroyed? In my mind I see the hedge as a barrier. A separation between the vineyard and the outside world. (Babylon). The servants failed to maintain the hedge which offered their protection. They also failed to see the attack coming due to their slothfulness in failing to build the tower. Perhaps they became focused on real estate investments? Given that the tower is what enables you to see and prepare in advance for an impending attack by the adversary, I see it representing revelation, seership and prophecy. Have the watchmen neglected it?

I still have a lot of questions. After the attack the Lord sends the servants/ watchmen out on the offensive, to regain control of the ground and drive out the enemy which had taken control. If I am understanding this, it bears some pretty heavy charges.

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The scriptures seem to single out a solitary "watchman" who should have been on the tower (the rest upon the walls) and seen the attack coming. And it goes as far as accusing him of sleeping on his post.

That's heavy stuff.

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blitzinstripes wrote: June 12th, 2022, 7:35 pm That makes good sense to me. What do you make of the "hedge" that was destroyed? In my mind I see the hedge as a barrier. A separation between the vineyard and the outside world. (Babylon). The servants failed to maintain the hedge which offered their protection. They also failed to see the attack coming due to their slothfulness in failing to build the tower. Perhaps they became focused on real estate investments? Given that the tower is what enables you to see and prepare in advance for an impending attack by the adversary, I see it representing revelation, seership and prophecy. Have the watchmen neglected it?

I still have a lot of questions. After the attack the Lord sends the servants/ watchmen out on the offensive, to regain control of the ground and drive out the enemy which had taken control. If I am understanding this, it bears some pretty heavy charges.
Yeah, good questions - - I’m not really sure what the hedge is, specifically. In ancient Israel, when they enjoyed God’s presence, it was like a supernatural level of protection.

In Joseph Smith’s day, think about how many of his associates were privileged to see either an angel, or the Lord (sometimes just the backside) or even Adam and Eve on their throne. These were people who were invited to gather and build actual, literal Zion. But they couldn’t do it because they didn’t love God more than stuff like property. Maybe their failure to build the temple was a microcosm for a much bigger problem - - they failed to create a HoH for God within themselves because they were busy with the cares of this world and the lusts of the flesh.

I believe D&C 101:55 and onward has to do with the future redemption of Zion - “the residue of my servants” (remnant). Notice that the enemy’s “tower” will have to be thrown down and they that “watch for iniquity” (ie the watchmen on the tower for the dark side) will have to be defeated. That means that Satan’s presence is very much lending power to their side right now. Luciferians managed to build *their* tower, but we did not. Sad but prophesied.

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This was a great discussion. I've been rereading section 101 over and over again today. I'm gonna sleep on it now. Lots to ponder. Thank you.

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Lexew1899
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Don’t forget Temple Mount.
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Interesting that in the 1800's cathedral domes, and large mosques all used domed structures. They all had pagan origin. It really wasn't until one summer trip where I went through most notable cathedrals and then Rome (vatican as well) that it became obvious that those cathedrals with domes all had many chapels which originally (in Roman times) each housed a separate god. Today they house separate worship themes (saints, virgin Mary, etc...). From that (much later than Moses of course) it seems the domes were ostentatious "temples". Made in stone, expensive and not too practical. Seems perhaps the early prophets seeing images of the great worldly temples might have dreamed that way, like seeing Nephites with big stone temples and Nephites all looking like Arnold Swarznegger. Perhaps

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Post by Juliet »

It's kind of the same shape as the top of a person's head. And the top of a person's head is supposed to allow the doctrines of the priesthood to distill upon them like the dews from heaven.

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TheDuke wrote: June 12th, 2022, 9:50 pm Interesting that in the 1800's cathedral domes, and large mosques all used domed structures. They all had pagan origin. It really wasn't until one summer trip where I went through most notable cathedrals and then Rome (vatican as well) that it became obvious that those cathedrals with domes all had many chapels which originally (in Roman times) each housed a separate god. Today they house separate worship themes (saints, virgin Mary, etc...). From that (much later than Moses of course) it seems the domes were ostentatious "temples". Made in stone, expensive and not too practical. Seems perhaps the early prophets seeing images of the great worldly temples might have dreamed that way, like seeing Nephites with big stone temples and Nephites all looking like Arnold Swarznegger. Perhaps
I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve called pagan things that pagans may only have been attempting to imitate, like Pharoah did the priesthood and governance of Adam

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Niemand
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Post by Niemand »

I must admit I've always been a fan of the Orthodox church's onion domes especially in Russia, Ukraine etc. The Greek churches have domes, which are pretty, but they don't quite head off in the direction of the Slavic churches.

Eastern Orthodox architecture can be overshadowed by the Roman Catholic church, but I think it has a beauty of its own.

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"It is the crown of a church, like a fiery tongue crowned with a cross and tapering towards the cross...," Yevgeny Trubetskoy Three Essays on the Russian Icon.
Given the current circumstances, I included a Ukrainian one there. I believe the Ukrainians did this first.

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