The trouble with this definition is that it lets female predators off the hook. There was a test case some years ago with a woman in the navy who went round sexually assaulting females of lower ranks.h_p wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 8:53 am Is there a legal definition for sexual assault in Utah, and is that what they're using? I'm finding "aggravated sexual assault," at least. Here in Texas, the term "sexual assault" is specifically codified in law, and it pretty much requires penetration. Not everybody has the same definition, so are they including things like groping, indecent exposure, cat-calling, etc?
It would be good to be specific when throwing out such a huge percentage like that. And no, I don't support any of it, in case anybody's wondering, but there are varying degrees of wrong. Are they seriously saying more than 1 in 4 women in Utah have been actually raped?
CHEWED GUM (trailer)
- Niemand
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Well as I suspected the situation while never good is not as dire as the film presents Utah is not even in the top ten states for rape. However, I will add that the idea of sexual assault is rather vague and dependent upon a number of factors including how one defines it. Further rape is an underreported crime so we have to consider that as well.
All things taken into account I don't believe we have any good source data on this. There is just too many variables in play to be able to make any hard and fast claims one way or the other.
All things taken into account I don't believe we have any good source data on this. There is just too many variables in play to be able to make any hard and fast claims one way or the other.
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It depends whether one is going by the rate or the raw figure.gkearney wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 9:50 am Well as I suspected the situation while never good is not as dire as the film presents Utah is not even in the top ten states for rape. However, I will add that the idea of sexual assault is rather vague and dependent upon a number of factors including how one defines it. Further rape is an underreported crime so we have to consider that as well.
All things taken into account I don't believe we have any good source data on this. There is just too many variables in play to be able to make any hard and fast claims one way or the other.
Utah will score lower than California or New York just by having a smaller population on the latter.
The rate is more significant.
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Texas law would cover it. Utah law seems a little more vague than Texas', but I think it would, as well. Their definition of rape includes the phrase "any sexual penetration, however slight." There's also language around "object rape." The problem might be in a lopsided application, though, like is commonly done with hate crimes. Did the rapist get charged?Niemand wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 9:08 amThe trouble with this definition is that it lets female predators off the hook. There was a test case some years ago with a woman in the navy who went round sexually assaulting females of lower ranks.h_p wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 8:53 am Is there a legal definition for sexual assault in Utah, and is that what they're using? I'm finding "aggravated sexual assault," at least. Here in Texas, the term "sexual assault" is specifically codified in law, and it pretty much requires penetration. Not everybody has the same definition, so are they including things like groping, indecent exposure, cat-calling, etc?
It would be good to be specific when throwing out such a huge percentage like that. And no, I don't support any of it, in case anybody's wondering, but there are varying degrees of wrong. Are they seriously saying more than 1 in 4 women in Utah have been actually raped?
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Yes, she was, and she was relieved of her rank and kicked out of the navy. Rightly.h_p wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 10:31 amTexas law would cover it. Utah law seems a little more vague than Texas', but I think it would, as well. Their definition of rape includes the phrase "any sexual penetration, however slight." There's also language around "object rape." The problem might be in a lopsided application, though, like is commonly done with hate crimes. Did the rapist get charged?Niemand wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 9:08 amThe trouble with this definition is that it lets female predators off the hook. There was a test case some years ago with a woman in the navy who went round sexually assaulting females of lower ranks.h_p wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 8:53 am Is there a legal definition for sexual assault in Utah, and is that what they're using? I'm finding "aggravated sexual assault," at least. Here in Texas, the term "sexual assault" is specifically codified in law, and it pretty much requires penetration. Not everybody has the same definition, so are they including things like groping, indecent exposure, cat-calling, etc?
It would be good to be specific when throwing out such a huge percentage like that. And no, I don't support any of it, in case anybody's wondering, but there are varying degrees of wrong. Are they seriously saying more than 1 in 4 women in Utah have been actually raped?
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Seems like there should have been some jail time for that, too. Good grief.
- Reluctant Watchman
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"Don't worry guys, the sexual abuse wasn't THAT bad... not even in the top ten...." SMH... I get it, you want the number to be higher so that it shows a direct correlation to Utah culture, but regardless of how you want to perceive the number, a state like Utah, full of "mormons" should be the last on the list.gkearney wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 9:50 am Well as I suspected the situation while never good is not as dire as the film presents Utah is not even in the top ten states for rape. However, I will add that the idea of sexual assault is rather vague and dependent upon a number of factors including how one defines it. Further rape is an underreported crime so we have to consider that as well.
All things taken into account I don't believe we have any good source data on this. There is just too many variables in play to be able to make any hard and fast claims one way or the other.
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Re: CHEWED GUM (trailer)
Right? Full of people who should be enjoying the spiritual gift of discernment, full of people who are equipped to cast out devils and their evil, and full of people who boast of having “seers,” especially.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 11:53 am"Don't worry guys, the sexual abuse wasn't THAT bad... not even in the top ten...." SMH... I get it, you want the number to be higher so that it shows a direct correlation to Utah culture, but regardless of how you want to perceive the number, a state like Utah, full of "mormons" should be the last on the list.gkearney wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 9:50 am Well as I suspected the situation while never good is not as dire as the film presents Utah is not even in the top ten states for rape. However, I will add that the idea of sexual assault is rather vague and dependent upon a number of factors including how one defines it. Further rape is an underreported crime so we have to consider that as well.
All things taken into account I don't believe we have any good source data on this. There is just too many variables in play to be able to make any hard and fast claims one way or the other.
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Re: CHEWED GUM (trailer)
I'm sorry but when the one gal said, her bishop wouldn't report it to the police...really? If you were sexually assaulted, the FIRST person you should go to is the police. I know that this is happening in the Church. But they can't prosecute...innocent until proven guilty. Then if a court of law proclaims guilty, it's up to the Church to pass judgement as well. It will be on their heads for not doing so, and if that's the case, may judgement be harsh for not.
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Re: CHEWED GUM (trailer)
This is all fine and dandy if you believe that the religious and legal institutions operate separatelykittycat51 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 12:10 pm I'm sorry but when the one gal said, her bishop wouldn't report it to the police...really? If you were sexually assaulted, the FIRST person you should go to is the police. I know that this is happening in the Church. But they can't prosecute...innocent until proven guilty. Then if a court of law proclaims guilty, it's up to the Church to pass judgement as well. It will be on their heads for not doing so, and if that's the case, may judgement be harsh for not.
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Seriously, this is awful.
You guys, years ago I dealt with a young woman in our ward that was being abused. We couldn’t help her and I still feel so horrible about it. I do question the way the church handled it. It makes me sick to think about it.
Another incident happened years prior with someone else. I suspected abuse at home. It fizzled…no proof. But at the time I found a bishop’s handbook- that wasn’t for public eyes and looked inside because I wanted to look up a question. I found that it said that the church tries to keep families together. It was so long ago it’s fuzzy, and I don’t know what else it said. I think it mentioned something about avoiding police but I can’t be sure. But I remember I was like, what?!!!
Does anyone know what I’m talking about? Have you ever read any old handbook that said that?
You guys, years ago I dealt with a young woman in our ward that was being abused. We couldn’t help her and I still feel so horrible about it. I do question the way the church handled it. It makes me sick to think about it.
Another incident happened years prior with someone else. I suspected abuse at home. It fizzled…no proof. But at the time I found a bishop’s handbook- that wasn’t for public eyes and looked inside because I wanted to look up a question. I found that it said that the church tries to keep families together. It was so long ago it’s fuzzy, and I don’t know what else it said. I think it mentioned something about avoiding police but I can’t be sure. But I remember I was like, what?!!!
Does anyone know what I’m talking about? Have you ever read any old handbook that said that?
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And especially if you've been raped, there's going to be physical evidence that will be lost if you wait to schedule an appointment with your bishop and then sit back and expect him to do your legwork for you. The bishop isn't law enforcement, folks!kittycat51 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 12:10 pm I'm sorry but when the one gal said, her bishop wouldn't report it to the police...really? If you were sexually assaulted, the FIRST person you should go to is the police. I know that this is happening in the Church. But they can't prosecute...innocent until proven guilty. Then if a court of law proclaims guilty, it's up to the Church to pass judgement as well. It will be on their heads for not doing so, and if that's the case, may judgement be harsh for not.
There are definitely things church leaders should be doing (and NOT doing) when it comes to hearing reports of sexual crimes. They should police the church's ranks, and for goodness sake, don't blame the victim. But the church is not another layer of government in between you and the real government.
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Re: CHEWED GUM (trailer)
These cases are super hard because there's a lot of he said she said. I have known predators, I have known people that were abused, and I have known people that were falsely accused. You don't want someone's life to be ruined by a false accusation, but you also absolutely don't want a perpetrator to go unpunished, and you absolutely want a victim to have justice and healing.Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 1:38 pm This is only the beginning.
All prophesied. See my thread about the Gentiles.
We had a predator in our midst once. It was gut-wrenching to feel violated as a community and to realize that any of our kids could have easily been subject to his evils, but he was thrown in prison. His victims forgave him, but everyone agreed that prison is where he belonged.
I just can't imagine knowing that abuse happened and trying to cover it up and protect a perpetrator. It just blows my mind, I cannot understand it.
Maybe the difference is that in Utah you have closer-knit communities where more people are intermarried and know each other and they think they can handle it themselves. There seems to be something in the culture like that if I had to guess.
Whatever the issue is, something absolutely needs to change. I don't know how you do that though but it does make me sick.
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And maybe it's church culture... just maybe.oneClimbs wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 3:14 pmThese cases are super hard because there's a lot of he said she said. I have known predators, I have known people that were abused, and I have known people that were falsely accused. You don't want someone's life to be ruined by a false accusation, but you also absolutely don't want a perpetrator to go unpunished, and you absolutely want a victim to have justice and healing.Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 1:38 pm This is only the beginning.
All prophesied. See my thread about the Gentiles.
We had a predator in our midst once. It was gut-wrenching to feel violated as a community and to realize that any of our kids could have easily been subject to his evils, but he was thrown in prison. His victims forgave him, but everyone agreed that prison is where he belonged.
I just can't imagine knowing that abuse happened and trying to cover it up and protect a perpetrator. It just blows my mind, I cannot understand it.
Maybe the difference is that in Utah you have closer-knit communities where more people are intermarried and know each other and they think they can handle it themselves. There seems to be something in the culture like that if I had to guess.
Whatever the issue is, something absolutely needs to change. I don't know how you do that though but it does make me sick.
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I have a neighbor who is spending 1 year in jail for touching a girl inappropriately. He was a school teacher. I had another neighbor who lived behind us 20+ years ago. He was the main suspect in the disappearance of two girls and kidnapped another. He would have killed the latter girl as well if she hadn't gotten away while he was at work. He chained her up and had to go to work for the day because his boss said he'd fire him if he didn't show up that day.
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I think it is definitely a culture issue and where ANY kind of allowance for that is present in the church it should be rooted out and destroyed.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 3:20 pmAnd maybe it's church culture... just maybe.oneClimbs wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 3:14 pmThese cases are super hard because there's a lot of he said she said. I have known predators, I have known people that were abused, and I have known people that were falsely accused. You don't want someone's life to be ruined by a false accusation, but you also absolutely don't want a perpetrator to go unpunished, and you absolutely want a victim to have justice and healing.Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 1:38 pm This is only the beginning.
All prophesied. See my thread about the Gentiles.
We had a predator in our midst once. It was gut-wrenching to feel violated as a community and to realize that any of our kids could have easily been subject to his evils, but he was thrown in prison. His victims forgave him, but everyone agreed that prison is where he belonged.
I just can't imagine knowing that abuse happened and trying to cover it up and protect a perpetrator. It just blows my mind, I cannot understand it.
Maybe the difference is that in Utah you have closer-knit communities where more people are intermarried and know each other and they think they can handle it themselves. There seems to be something in the culture like that if I had to guess.
Whatever the issue is, something absolutely needs to change. I don't know how you do that though but it does make me sick.
I’ve never lived in Utah so I don’t know what it’s like there, I’m in Texas and I’ve never seen any crap like this fly down here.
I know that this kind of stuff occurs, and it probably happens here and everywhere to one degree or another because pedos are everywhere.
Shout it from the rooftops and hold everyone accountable all the way to the top if need be. I have no issue with that.
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Re: CHEWED GUM (trailer)
Seems to be quite prevalent in LDS leadership.oneClimbs wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 9:03 pmI think it is definitely a culture issue and where ANY kind of allowance for that is present in the church it should be rooted out and destroyed.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 3:20 pmAnd maybe it's church culture... just maybe.oneClimbs wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 3:14 pmThese cases are super hard because there's a lot of he said she said. I have known predators, I have known people that were abused, and I have known people that were falsely accused. You don't want someone's life to be ruined by a false accusation, but you also absolutely don't want a perpetrator to go unpunished, and you absolutely want a victim to have justice and healing.Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 1:38 pm This is only the beginning.
All prophesied. See my thread about the Gentiles.
We had a predator in our midst once. It was gut-wrenching to feel violated as a community and to realize that any of our kids could have easily been subject to his evils, but he was thrown in prison. His victims forgave him, but everyone agreed that prison is where he belonged.
I just can't imagine knowing that abuse happened and trying to cover it up and protect a perpetrator. It just blows my mind, I cannot understand it.
Maybe the difference is that in Utah you have closer-knit communities where more people are intermarried and know each other and they think they can handle it themselves. There seems to be something in the culture like that if I had to guess.
Whatever the issue is, something absolutely needs to change. I don't know how you do that though but it does make me sick.
I’ve never lived in Utah so I don’t know what it’s like there, I’m in Texas and I’ve never seen any crap like this fly down here.
I know that this kind of stuff occurs, and it probably happens here and everywhere to one degree or another because pedos are everywhere.
Shout it from the rooftops and hold everyone accountable all the way to the top if need be. I have no issue with that.
There are a lot of interesting links throughout this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=63832
- Reluctant Watchman
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The church has a history of burying this sort of thing. And this abscondment goes all the way to the top. The church recently paid out $250M in the BSA settlement. They've also paid out tens of millions in other sex abuse settlements. You never hear about them because they are settled out of court. You know, gotta protect "the good name of the church."oneClimbs wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 9:03 pm I think it is definitely a culture issue and where ANY kind of allowance for that is present in the church it should be rooted out and destroyed.
I’ve never lived in Utah so I don’t know what it’s like there, I’m in Texas and I’ve never seen any crap like this fly down here.
I know that this kind of stuff occurs, and it probably happens here and everywhere to one degree or another because pedos are everywhere.
Shout it from the rooftops and hold everyone accountable all the way to the top if need be. I have no issue with that.
Check this out. Over 300 cases of sexual abuse where the church was involved, and this is most likely just scraping the surface: https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6 ... 017-06.pdf
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I suggest staying that way and not seeking to know all the evil that exists. The things I've learned about what the elites around the world are doing completely changed my outlook on life in general (for the worse). It is helpful in that it caused me to be more aware but sometimes I wish I'd never learned it.Niemand wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 3:38 pmPart of me is glad that I do not know all the horror in the world. I am not wishing to hide it but I think it would break my heart.Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 3:37 pm Threads like this tend to get the least amount of traction, but one day this evil will be exposed in all its ugly glory.
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I know what you mean. I know some of it, and it does not give me much hope for the human race.Hiphopopotamus wrote: ↑May 5th, 2022, 12:11 pmI suggest staying that way and not seeking to know all the evil that exists. The things I've learned about what the elites around the world are doing completely changed my outlook on life in general (for the worse). It is helpful in that it caused me to be more aware but sometimes I wish I'd never learned it.Niemand wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 3:38 pmPart of me is glad that I do not know all the horror in the world. I am not wishing to hide it but I think it would break my heart.Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 3:37 pm Threads like this tend to get the least amount of traction, but one day this evil will be exposed in all its ugly glory.
We will be very surprised by some of the revelations we eventually hear about these times.
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Re: CHEWED GUM (trailer)
Compare how we treat those who violate women with how the Patriarchs did.
From the Testament of Levi about the defiling of their sister:
5:2 “And he said to me, ‘Levi, to you I have given the blessing of the priesthood until I shall come and dwell in the midst of Israel.”
5:3 “Then the angel led me back to the earth, and gave me a shield and a sword, and said to me, ‘Perform vengeance on Shechem for the sake of Dinah, your sister, and I shall be with you, for the Lord sent me.”
5:4 “At that time I put an end to the sons of Hamor, as is written in the tablets of the fathers.”
From the Testament of Levi about the defiling of their sister:
5:2 “And he said to me, ‘Levi, to you I have given the blessing of the priesthood until I shall come and dwell in the midst of Israel.”
5:3 “Then the angel led me back to the earth, and gave me a shield and a sword, and said to me, ‘Perform vengeance on Shechem for the sake of Dinah, your sister, and I shall be with you, for the Lord sent me.”
5:4 “At that time I put an end to the sons of Hamor, as is written in the tablets of the fathers.”