The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Reluctant Watchman
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The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?

Artaxerxes
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Artaxerxes »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
Does 132 command that they live polygamy?

Mamabear
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Mamabear »

This isn’t about polygamy but about marriage/sealing in general.

“Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.“
Mark 12:20-25

Notice Jesus did not say she gets to choose her favorite and be sealed to him.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Artaxerxes wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:16 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
Does 132 command that they live polygamy?
Yes, verse 34. “God commanded Abraham….” (This is false btw)

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
I can show you where the Lord specifically says that He might command it in Jacob. Why do you think the Lord gave that caveat to Jacob? Because He knew He would use it someday.

I can show you in Isaiah where it says that it will be practiced just before the Second Coming.

I can show you where the Lord gives directions for polygamy in the books of Moses.

I can show you where the Fathers of the Righteous, Jacob and Abraham, practiced polygamy and they sit enthroned in heaven.

I can show you where Jesus acted as if he were the husband of three different women.

I can show you plenty of witnesses from pioneer times of women who testified of heavenly manifestations confirming that God commanded polygamy.

All of these things add up to one thing to me: when commanded, polygamy is of God.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Atrasado wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:58 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
I can show you where the Lord specifically says that He might command it in Jacob. Why do you think the Lord gave that caveat to Jacob? Because He knew He would use it someday.

I can show you in Isaiah where it says that it will be practiced just before the Second Coming.

I can show you where the Lord gives directions for polygamy in the books of Moses.

I can show you where the Fathers of the Righteous, Jacob and Abraham, practiced polygamy and they sit enthroned in heaven.

I can show you where Jesus acted as if he were the husband of three different women.

I can show you plenty of witnesses from pioneer times of women who testified of heavenly manifestations confirming that God commanded polygamy.

All of these things add up to one thing to me: when commanded, polygamy is of God.
Not a single thing you’ve noted shows the Lord commanded it.

BTW, read Jacob 2 closer and it can have a far different connotation than what you think.

Also, Isaiah is to be read symbolically, he was not necessarily speaking of a man and women, but the Lord and his people.

Abraham was never commanded.

…and to reiterate, there is not a single instance where the Lord commanded it. 132 is in gross error when Brigham or his cohorts made that statement. It’s purely false. Read the account of Abraham.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Interesting that in Jacob they mention how they thought it was cool because of David and Solomon, but zero mention of Abraham and Jacob. I wonder if the brass plates, which were unaltered scrioture, didn't contain anything about polygamy happening with Abraham or Jacob. I saw another thing about the Law of Hammurabi and how Abraham wasn't polygamous anyways because that was her handmaid and the laws permitted that, but it still wasn't marriage. That law still applied to Jacob and he got trapped into bigamy practically, but it didn't mention the Lord commanded it, either way. Commanding is way different than allowing. Interestingly, in scripture it says Abraham was asked to sacrifice his firstborn son, but that would be impossible if Ishmael had already been born.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
Abraham, when he had three wives: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah.

Example of Moses, when he married the Madianite Tziporrah, and then was murmured against by the population because he had decided to marry a Cushite.

The exceptions granting polygamy are few and far between, and almost always, happened at the VERY START of the dispensation.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son

How could Isaac be his only begotten son if Ishmael had been born?

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by CuriousThinker »

Subcomandante wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:46 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
Abraham, when he had three wives: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah.

Example of Moses, when he married the Madianite Tziporrah, and then was murmured against by the population because he had decided to marry a Cushite.

The exceptions granting polygamy are few and far between, and almost always, happened at the VERY START of the dispensation.
Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.

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Subcomandante
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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CuriousThinker wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:50 pm
Subcomandante wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:46 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
Abraham, when he had three wives: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah.

Example of Moses, when he married the Madianite Tziporrah, and then was murmured against by the population because he had decided to marry a Cushite.

The exceptions granting polygamy are few and far between, and almost always, happened at the VERY START of the dispensation.
Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.
I stand corrected on Hagar. But Keturah was also Abraham's wife.

Jacob also had two wives and two concubines.

The Torah has different laws specifically set up for polygamous families too.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Subcomandante wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:02 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:50 pm
Subcomandante wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:46 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
Abraham, when he had three wives: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah.

Example of Moses, when he married the Madianite Tziporrah, and then was murmured against by the population because he had decided to marry a Cushite.

The exceptions granting polygamy are few and far between, and almost always, happened at the VERY START of the dispensation.
Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.
I stand corrected on Hagar. But Keturah was also Abraham's wife.

Jacob also had two wives and two concubines.

The Torah has different laws specifically set up for polygamous families too.
Again, Keturah was his wife AFTER Sarah died. He was not a polygamist.

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Post by CuriousThinker »

Also, there is no indication that Moses married a second wife while Zipporah was alive. It is very likely she had died when he married the Cushite woman .

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Church_of_the_Lamb »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:17 pm
Atrasado wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:58 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
I can show you where the Lord specifically says that He might command it in Jacob. Why do you think the Lord gave that caveat to Jacob? Because He knew He would use it someday.

I can show you in Isaiah where it says that it will be practiced just before the Second Coming.

I can show you where the Lord gives directions for polygamy in the books of Moses.

I can show you where the Fathers of the Righteous, Jacob and Abraham, practiced polygamy and they sit enthroned in heaven.

I can show you where Jesus acted as if he were the husband of three different women.

I can show you plenty of witnesses from pioneer times of women who testified of heavenly manifestations confirming that God commanded polygamy.

All of these things add up to one thing to me: when commanded, polygamy is of God.
Not a single thing you’ve noted shows the Lord commanded it.

BTW, read Jacob 2 closer and it can have a far different connotation than what you think.

Also, Isaiah is to be read symbolically, he was not necessarily speaking of a man and women, but the Lord and his people.

Abraham was never commanded.

…and to reiterate, there is not a single instance where the Lord commanded it. 132 is in gross error when Brigham or his cohorts made that statement. It’s purely false. Read the account of Abraham.
The Isaiah is a victim of a chapter break when thier shouldn't be one, so take the verses and add it to the part where the daughters of zion are whimpering and such. Is should be taken as a bad thing

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Luke
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Luke »

How many times does this have to be rehashed?

2 Samuel 12
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

The Lord GAVE to David his wives. He said that if that wasn’t enough, He would have given him MORE.

If this isn’t as good as commanding it, I don’t know what is.

You can’t get around this Scripture. The Lord was responsible for David’s having many wives.

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Luke
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:17 pm Also, Isaiah is to be read symbolically, he was not necessarily speaking of a man and women, but the Lord and his people.
Bullsh...

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Subcomandante wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:46 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
Abraham, when he had three wives: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah.

Example of Moses, when he married the Madianite Tziporrah, and then was murmured against by the population because he had decided to marry a Cushite.

The exceptions granting polygamy are few and far between, and almost always, happened at the VERY START of the dispensation.
Show me in the scriptures where the Lord commanded it?

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:46 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:17 pm Also, Isaiah is to be read symbolically, he was not necessarily speaking of a man and women, but the Lord and his people.
Bullsh...
haha, sure Luke.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:45 pm How many times does this have to be rehashed?

2 Samuel 12
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

The Lord GAVE to David his wives. He said that if that wasn’t enough, He would have given him MORE.

If this isn’t as good as commanding it, I don’t know what is.

You can’t get around this Scripture. The Lord was responsible for David’s having many wives.
Where, in the scriptures, does the Lord command (ask) His people to live polygamy? This verse says nothing of the sort.

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Luke
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:49 pm
Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:45 pm How many times does this have to be rehashed?

2 Samuel 12
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

The Lord GAVE to David his wives. He said that if that wasn’t enough, He would have given him MORE.

If this isn’t as good as commanding it, I don’t know what is.

You can’t get around this Scripture. The Lord was responsible for David’s having many wives.
Where, in the scriptures, does the Lord command (ask) His people to live polygamy? This verse says nothing of the sort.
Classic...

Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?

Atrasado
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Atrasado »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:17 pm
Atrasado wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:58 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
I can show you where the Lord specifically says that He might command it in Jacob. Why do you think the Lord gave that caveat to Jacob? Because He knew He would use it someday.

I can show you in Isaiah where it says that it will be practiced just before the Second Coming.

I can show you where the Lord gives directions for polygamy in the books of Moses.

I can show you where the Fathers of the Righteous, Jacob and Abraham, practiced polygamy and they sit enthroned in heaven.

I can show you where Jesus acted as if he were the husband of three different women.

I can show you plenty of witnesses from pioneer times of women who testified of heavenly manifestations confirming that God commanded polygamy.

All of these things add up to one thing to me: when commanded, polygamy is of God.
Not a single thing you’ve noted shows the Lord commanded it.

BTW, read Jacob 2 closer and it can have a far different connotation than what you think.

Also, Isaiah is to be read symbolically, he was not necessarily speaking of a man and women, but the Lord and his people.

Abraham was never commanded.

…and to reiterate, there is not a single instance where the Lord commanded it. 132 is in gross error when Brigham or his cohorts made that statement. It’s purely false. Read the account of Abraham.
We'll all think what we want, but I do not think the evidence overall supports this. Isaiah is full of symbolism and many things symbolize more than one thing.

However, I don't think this is about Christ wedding the Church. Many prophets were directed to use this symbolism but the Church was always singular, not plural. Furthermore, Isaiah doesn't use a "man" to symbolize the Lord in any other place in his book. He is almost always referred to as Jehovah.

Furthermore, I guess the Lord didn't care that Abraham, Jacob, and Moses had more than one wife at a time.

Plus, the Lord commanded levirate marriage and if your only brother died and you were already married you were still expected by the Lord to marry your brother's wife and have children.

The scriptures cannot be understood if one does not allow for plural marriage. They just can't. Not that myself or anyone else wants of themselves extra wives. I can't even make one happy much of the time. But it's clear that the Lord does command this sometimes.

I know that this means to many people that Joseph is a damnable liar, but I don't think so. Mostly, Joseph preached against spiritual wifery, which is a very different thing (basically free love) than plural marriage. Plus, the Lord specifically warns us not to throw pearls before swine. What's more swinelike than trying to kill someone you disagree with? The gospel isn't a suicide pact and we aren't required to give our enemies knowledge or proof of things they WILL wickedly use against us.
Last edited by Atrasado on April 21st, 2022, 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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CuriousThinker wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:50 pm
Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.
Hagar was Abraham's legitimate wife.

3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Why is Keturah referred to has a concubine if she was Abraham's only wife at the time of their marriage?

32 ¶ Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Why does the Bible state that Abraham had concubines (plural)?

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
5 ¶ And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by CuriousThinker »

Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:52 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:49 pm
Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:45 pm How many times does this have to be rehashed?

2 Samuel 12
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

The Lord GAVE to David his wives. He said that if that wasn’t enough, He would have given him MORE.

If this isn’t as good as commanding it, I don’t know what is.

You can’t get around this Scripture. The Lord was responsible for David’s having many wives.
Where, in the scriptures, does the Lord command (ask) His people to live polygamy? This verse says nothing of the sort.
Classic...

Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

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Luke
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Luke »

CuriousThinker wrote: April 20th, 2022, 11:21 pm
Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:52 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:49 pm
Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:45 pm How many times does this have to be rehashed?

2 Samuel 12
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

The Lord GAVE to David his wives. He said that if that wasn’t enough, He would have given him MORE.

If this isn’t as good as commanding it, I don’t know what is.

You can’t get around this Scripture. The Lord was responsible for David’s having many wives.
Where, in the scriptures, does the Lord command (ask) His people to live polygamy? This verse says nothing of the sort.
Classic...

Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
It can’t be referring to their actual polygamy, because 2 Samuel 12:8 says that the Lord gave them their wives. Therefore, it must be some specific aspect of their polygamy. D&C 132 tells us exactly what—their doing it without Jehovah’s approbation.

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Luke
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Luke »

Atticus wrote: April 20th, 2022, 11:16 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: April 20th, 2022, 9:50 pm
Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.
Hagar was Abraham's legitimate wife.

3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Why is Keturah referred to has a concubine if she was Abraham's only wife at the time of their marriage?

32 ¶ Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Why does the Bible state that Abraham had concubines (plural)?

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
5 ¶ And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.
They will use all sorts of excuses to explain this away (even to the point of accusing Abraham of adultery), but the facts are the facts.

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