The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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JLHPROF
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by JLHPROF »

God gave rules for the practice of plural marriage, so while not a command to practice there was equally no prohibition against.

Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish

Deut 21:15 ¶ If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: April 21st, 2022, 6:21 am God gave rules for the practice of plural marriage, so while not a command to practice there was equally no prohibition against.

Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish

Deut 21:15 ¶ If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated
Yes, there was a strict prohibition against it. Hence why we have Jacob 2, and the original D&C 101 from Joseph, which called it a crime in our dispensation.

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Robin Hood
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Robin Hood »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:26 am
Robin Hood wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:20 am I think it is the case that there appears to be little evidence in the scriptures that the Lord has ever commanded anyone to have a plural wives. That doesn't mean he hasn't, it just means it's not in the scriptures.
I believe the ancient people were pretty similar to us, in that they assumed everything was permissible unless it was specifically ruled out.
I suspect that was why Abraham and others were ok with having additional wives.
The Jaradites, King Noah, David, Solomon, Brigham… (the list goes on) of people having done it, but not a single instance where the Lord commanded it. 132 falsely attributes the Lord as having commanded Abraham to have a child with his slave. His wife asked Hagar to be a surrogate mother, SHE asked Abraham to sleep with Hagar, not the Lord.
Yes, I know that.
My point is that in the absence of a specific commandment not to take a plural wife, many people did because they assumed silence meant it was ok.
Just like they changed the wording of the temple covenant from "sexual intercourse" to "sexual relations". People were doing everything but intercourse and thinking they were ok.

Where Abraham is concerned, I suspect he married Hagar, but marriage to a slave/handmaiden in that culture was probably no more than a simple exchange of words. No sealing or wedding feast.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:52 pm
Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?
You mean this approbation?

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

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JLHPROF
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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 21st, 2022, 6:23 am
JLHPROF wrote: April 21st, 2022, 6:21 am God gave rules for the practice of plural marriage, so while not a command to practice there was equally no prohibition against.

Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish

Deut 21:15 ¶ If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated
Yes, there was a strict prohibition against it. Hence why we have Jacob 2, and the original D&C 101 from Joseph, which called it a crime in our dispensation.
The old D&C 101 wasn't a revelation from God.
And you've had Jacob 2 explained repeatedly.
But keep right on selling that line, nobody is buying it.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:19 am
Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:12 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The Lord clearly says that the the Nephites should only have one wife and that to have more than one is a whoredom and an abomination.

Then he says that if he will raise up seed unto Himself he will command his people (to have more than one wife), otherwise they need to follow the command to only have one wife.

Since it's clear that having more than one wife is a whoredom and an abomination, unless God commands it, God obviously commanded Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife. Unless you want to claim that they were committing whoredoms and abusing women.
Show me where God commanded them? Just because someone does something doesn't me God commanded it.
Show me where God ever said that Abraham or Jacob were guilty of whoredoms and abominations?

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:08 am "these things" that his people should "harken unto" is referring to "keep my commandments" in the previous verse.
Yes exactly.

But God doesn't just say for them to "harken unto these things."

What did he say right before that?

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise...

There are two different commandments be referred to here when it comes to polygamy. The general commandments against it. And then the rare occasion where God commands it to raise up seed. If polygamy is allowed, He will specifically command his people, OTHERWISE they are to harken to "these things" (the commandment to only have one wife from the preceding verses).
Last edited by LDS Watchman on April 21st, 2022, 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: April 21st, 2022, 6:56 am The old D&C 101 wasn't a revelation from God.
And you've had Jacob 2 explained repeatedly.
But keep right on selling that line, nobody is buying it.
Do your research on the original 101. It was more than a fart in the wind. It was voted on by the body of the church. Joseph also had it read to all members.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:04 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:19 am
Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:12 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:09 pm A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The Lord clearly says that the the Nephites should only have one wife and that to have more than one is a whoredom and an abomination.

Then he says that if he will raise up seed unto Himself he will command his people (to have more than one wife), otherwise they need to follow the command to only have one wife.

Since it's clear that having more than one wife is a whoredom and an abomination, unless God commands it, God obviously commanded Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife. Unless you want to claim that they were committing whoredoms and abusing women.
Show me where God commanded them? Just because someone does something doesn't me God commanded it.
Show me where God ever said that Abraham or Jacob were guilty of whoredoms and abominations?
Abraham's experience had nothing to do with taking another wife.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:21 am
Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:04 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:19 am
Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:12 am

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The Lord clearly says that the the Nephites should only have one wife and that to have more than one is a whoredom and an abomination.

Then he says that if he will raise up seed unto Himself he will command his people (to have more than one wife), otherwise they need to follow the command to only have one wife.

Since it's clear that having more than one wife is a whoredom and an abomination, unless God commands it, God obviously commanded Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife. Unless you want to claim that they were committing whoredoms and abusing women.
Show me where God commanded them? Just because someone does something doesn't me God commanded it.
Show me where God ever said that Abraham or Jacob were guilty of whoredoms and abominations?
Abraham's experience had nothing to do with taking another wife.
Are you serious?

The Bible, which you are trying to insist D&C 132 contradicts, plainly states that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to be HIS WIFE. That's two wives at the same time.

Then later it says that he married Keturah as his wife. She is also referred to as his concubine (which is by definition a wife of a lower status than another living wife or wives).

The Bible also mentions that Abraham had CONCUBINES (plural).

So per Jacob 2, either God commanded him to have more than one wife, or he was one of those "wicked men of old" who committed whoredoms and abominations by exploiting women.

Do you choose door number 1 or door number 2?

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 11:33 pm So… my offer still stands. Not one instance where the Lord commanded it.
You're kicking against the pricks here and sophistry and semantics are beneath you. It's been shown many times in this discussion from the scriptures that the Lord does approve of plural marriage and would command it to raise a righteous seed. Just because there isn't a place where the Lord specifically commanded something doesn't mean He never did--after all, even the world itself couldn't hold the books if all his works had been written.

Modern sensibilities revolt against it which make it difficult for us to gain a witness of it. The Spirit is still and small and our emotions about this are large and loud. But it was of God and it will be again.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Atrasado wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:39 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 20th, 2022, 11:33 pm So… my offer still stands. Not one instance where the Lord commanded it.
You're kicking against the pricks here and sophistry and semantics are beneath you. It's been shown many times in this discussion from the scriptures that the Lord does approve of plural marriage and would command it to raise a righteous seed. Just because there isn't a place where the Lord specifically commanded something doesn't mean He never did--after all, even the world itself couldn't hold the books if all his works had been written.

Modern sensibilities revolt against it which make it difficult for us to gain a witness of it. The Spirit is still and small and our emotions about this are large and loud. But it was of God and it will be again.
Show me where he commanded it?

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by LDS Watchman »

CuriousThinker wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:57 am
Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:16 am
CuriousThinker wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:03 am
Atticus wrote: April 20th, 2022, 11:54 pm

What is this article supposed to show?

It says Hammurabi's code and Hebrew laws were not the same.

Can you offer any explanation for why the bible mentions that Abraham had multiple concubines, including Keturah?
Even though it was a Babylonian code it was in the practice very near to Abraham and possibly influenced him. I was just showing the proximity and time period. I said before that some say that could be why Abraham did what he did, as opposed to being commanded. As to multiple anything, I can't explain. I do not see the Lord asking him to though.
Per Jacob 2, if the Lord didn't command Abraham to have wives and concubines (as the scriptures clearly show he had) then he would be guilty of whoredoms and abominations.

Since you don't believe God commanded him to do this, does this mean you believe Father Abraham was guilty of whoredoms and abominations?
I do not believe 'raise up seed' means polygamy. 'Raise up seed' is used in scripture to show raising up children to the Lord. As stated before it is very possible that scriptures were changed later to reflect whoredoms. It would be easy to excuse their polygamy and concubines if the Lord had previously sanctioned it, but they only tried to use David and Solomon and they were examples of wickedness and they had uncorrupted brass plates. If the Lord wanted lots of kids fast one would think Adam would have polygamy, Noah, Lehi, the Jaredites, the Nephites after Christ came, to name a few, would practice it.
Jacob 2 says that unauthorized polygamy is a whoredom and an abomination.

So what does that say about Abraham's polygamy?

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Are we still believing that the Bible is 100% accurate, and not altered by men who would try and justify things like this?

I’ve got a hard time believing everything in the Bible is legit, and so will weight it against the BoM. It seems to be pretty clear.
Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Robin Hood »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 21st, 2022, 6:53 am
Luke wrote: April 20th, 2022, 10:52 pm
Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?
You mean this approbation?

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
What David and Solomon did was not the same as what Abraham or Jacob did.
It's tempting to tar everyone with the same brush, but thankfully God doesn't do that.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

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Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:18 am
ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:08 am "these things" that his people should "harken unto" is referring to "keep my commandments" in the previous verse.
Yes exactly.

But God doesn't just say for them to "harken unto these things."

What did he say right before that?

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise...

There are two different commandments be referred to here when it comes to polygamy. The general commandments against it. And then the rare occasion where God commands it to raise up seed. If polygamy is allowed, He will specifically command his people, OTHERWISE they are to harken to "these things" (the commandment to only have one wife from the preceding verses).
Jacob is writing in a chiasmus structure here and you are misinterpreting what he wrote. The "otherwise" is referring to the consequences of not harkening, their chastisement, which is to say, "cursed be the land for their sakes." The Lord raises seed by having a righteous people who follow His commandments.


2:23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
2:24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

2:25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
2:26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
2:27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

2:28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

2:31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
2:32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

2:35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Mamabear »

Robin Hood wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:53 am
Mamabear wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:32 pm This isn’t about polygamy but about marriage/sealing in general.

“Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.“
Mark 12:20-25

Notice Jesus did not say she gets to choose her favorite and be sealed to him.
This is nothing to do with polygamy or with sealing. It refers to a Jewish law which permits a posterity to be credited to someone who is deceased, and is referenced in an attempt to discredit the doctrine of resurrection.
It isn't even a true story, just a made up scenario to illustrate a point about the resurrection. The Sadducees didn't believe in the resurrection.
Hmmmm. I don’t know about that.
Interesting that this is what the heading of that chapter says,
“Jesus gives the parable of the wicked husbandmen—He speaks of paying taxes, celestial marriage, the two great commandments, the divine sonship of Christ, and the widow’s mites.”

He doesn’t even mention “celestial marriage”.
The only place he talks about marriage are the verses I mentioned.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by ransomme »

I think it is very ironic that...

1) When polygamy would be needed most it's not commanded, Adam&Eve, Noah, Lehi, Jaredites, Mulekites, post destruction (post Christ's visit) Nephites, the early Church of Christ, etc

2) When it was "commanded" there are little to no fruits like with Abraham, Joseph Smith, etc. Those must have been a couple of bum prophets who couldn't produce seed via polygamy.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by LDS Watchman »

ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:45 am
Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:18 am
ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:08 am "these things" that his people should "harken unto" is referring to "keep my commandments" in the previous verse.
Yes exactly.

But God doesn't just say for them to "harken unto these things."

What did he say right before that?

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise...

There are two different commandments be referred to here when it comes to polygamy. The general commandments against it. And then the rare occasion where God commands it to raise up seed. If polygamy is allowed, He will specifically command his people, OTHERWISE they are to harken to "these things" (the commandment to only have one wife from the preceding verses).
Jacob is writing in a chiasmus structure here and you are misinterpreting what he wrote. The "otherwise" is referring to the consequences of not harkening, their chastisement, which is to say, "cursed be the land for their sakes." The Lord raises seed by having a righteous people who follow His commandments.


2:23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
2:24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

2:25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
2:26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
2:27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

2:28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

2:31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
2:32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

2:35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.
He literally said that that it meant that they were to hearken to the commandments in the previous verse, which is the correct interpretation.

Now you're changing your story.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by LDS Watchman »

ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:53 am When it was "commanded" there are little to no fruits like with Abraham
Are you serious?

Abraham became the father of many nations because he had children with several wives. Each of these sons from different wives became their own nation.

Please go back and read the Bible.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I don’t think you understood what he was saying Atticus. Read what he said again.

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Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by ransomme »

Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:56 am
ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:45 am
Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:18 am
ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 4:08 am "these things" that his people should "harken unto" is referring to "keep my commandments" in the previous verse.
Yes exactly.

But God doesn't just say for them to "harken unto these things."

What did he say right before that?

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise...

There are two different commandments be referred to here when it comes to polygamy. The general commandments against it. And then the rare occasion where God commands it to raise up seed. If polygamy is allowed, He will specifically command his people, OTHERWISE they are to harken to "these things" (the commandment to only have one wife from the preceding verses).
Jacob is writing in a chiasmus structure here and you are misinterpreting what he wrote. The "otherwise" is referring to the consequences of not harkening, their chastisement, which is to say, "cursed be the land for their sakes." The Lord raises seed by having a righteous people who follow His commandments.


2:23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
2:24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

2:25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
2:26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
2:27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

2:28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

2:31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
2:32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
2:34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

2:35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.
He literally said that that it meant that they were to hearken to the commandments in the previous verse, which is the correct interpretation.

Now you're changing your story.
Umm no. I'll say it again: The "otherwise" is referring to the consequences of not harkening. Otherwise is the reminder, the chastening God gives to his children who do not harken to His commandments.

Otherwise = the chastening, the curse on the land
Harken to what? - the Commandments


hmm, "cursed be the land for their sakes", that sounds familiar...have I read that somewhere before?

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Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Robin Hood »

Mamabear wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:47 am
Robin Hood wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:53 am
Mamabear wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:32 pm This isn’t about polygamy but about marriage/sealing in general.

“Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.“
Mark 12:20-25

Notice Jesus did not say she gets to choose her favorite and be sealed to him.
This is nothing to do with polygamy or with sealing. It refers to a Jewish law which permits a posterity to be credited to someone who is deceased, and is referenced in an attempt to discredit the doctrine of resurrection.
It isn't even a true story, just a made up scenario to illustrate a point about the resurrection. The Sadducees didn't believe in the resurrection.
Hmmmm. I don’t know about that.
Interesting that this is what the heading of that chapter says,
“Jesus gives the parable of the wicked husbandmen—He speaks of paying taxes, celestial marriage, the two great commandments, the divine sonship of Christ, and the widow’s mites.”

He doesn’t even mention “celestial marriage”.
The only place he talks about marriage are the verses I mentioned.
I learned a while ago to ignore chapter headings. I never read them because of the issue you outline.

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ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4013

Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by ransomme »

Atticus wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:57 am
ransomme wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:53 am When it was "commanded" there are little to no fruits like with Abraham
Are you serious?

Abraham became the father of many nations because he had children with several wives. Each of these sons from different wives became their own nation.

Please go back and read the Bible.
How many children did Abraham have? Not a very prolific polygamist. Quite poor actually. So if the purpose for God to command polygamy is to bear seed, then Abraham sucked at it.

Mamabear
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3351

Re: The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

Post by Mamabear »

Robin Hood wrote: April 21st, 2022, 9:14 am
Mamabear wrote: April 21st, 2022, 8:47 am
Robin Hood wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:53 am
Mamabear wrote: April 20th, 2022, 8:32 pm This isn’t about polygamy but about marriage/sealing in general.

“Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.“
Mark 12:20-25

Notice Jesus did not say she gets to choose her favorite and be sealed to him.
This is nothing to do with polygamy or with sealing. It refers to a Jewish law which permits a posterity to be credited to someone who is deceased, and is referenced in an attempt to discredit the doctrine of resurrection.
It isn't even a true story, just a made up scenario to illustrate a point about the resurrection. The Sadducees didn't believe in the resurrection.
Hmmmm. I don’t know about that.
Interesting that this is what the heading of that chapter says,
“Jesus gives the parable of the wicked husbandmen—He speaks of paying taxes, celestial marriage, the two great commandments, the divine sonship of Christ, and the widow’s mites.”

He doesn’t even mention “celestial marriage”.
The only place he talks about marriage are the verses I mentioned.
I learned a while ago to ignore chapter headings. I never read them because of the issue you outline.
I agree and don’t read them either. I was pointing out the lack of intelligence. The footnotes are also crazy and messed up at times.

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