The Lord has never commanded that polygamy be lived. Change my mind.

[LDS Watchman]

Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.

Hagar was Abraham's legitimate wife.

3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Why is Keturah referred to has a concubine if she was Abraham's only wife at the time of their marriage?

32 ¶ Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Why does the Bible state that Abraham had concubines (plural)?

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
5 ¶ And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

They will use all sorts of excuses to explain this away (even to the point of accusing Abraham of adultery), but the facts are the facts.

Don't I know it.

[CuriousThinker]

Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.

Hagar was Abraham's legitimate wife.

3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Why is Keturah referred to has a concubine if she was Abraham's only wife at the time of their marriage?

32 ¶ Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Why does the Bible state that Abraham had concubines (plural)?

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
5 ¶ And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

I previously explained what I was told about the Law of Hammurabi and property and handmaids. That is an explanation of Hagar. It seems odd that he could legally kick out his own wife under the laws and customs. Property he could.

[LDS Watchman]

Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.

Hagar was Abraham's legitimate wife.

3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Why is Keturah referred to has a concubine if she was Abraham's only wife at the time of their marriage?

32 ¶ Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Why does the Bible state that Abraham had concubines (plural)?

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
5 ¶ And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

I previously explained what I was told about the Law of Hammurabi and property and handmaids. That is an explanation of Hagar. It seems odd that he could legally kick out his own wife under the laws and customs. Property he could.

Well the scriptures clearly refer to her as Abraham's wife, so I'm not really sure how you can insist she isn't.

Abraham wasn't living in Babylon, either. So the code of Hamarabi wouldn't have applied to him.

And what about Keturah being referred to as a concubine and multiple concubines of Abraham being mentioned?

[CuriousThinker]

Where, in the scriptures, does the Lord command (ask) His people to live polygamy? This verse says nothing of the sort.

Classic...

Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

It can’t be referring to their actual polygamy, because 2 Samuel 12:8 says that the Lord gave them their wives. Therefore, it must be some specific aspect of their polygamy. D&C 132 tells us exactly what—their doing it without Jehovah’s approbation.

I gotta say, this doesn't seem to carry any Spirit of the Lord and I greatly question some of the verses in this chapter, including this one.

11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

[Luke]

Classic...

Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

It can’t be referring to their actual polygamy, because 2 Samuel 12:8 says that the Lord gave them their wives. Therefore, it must be some specific aspect of their polygamy. D&C 132 tells us exactly what—their doing it without Jehovah’s approbation.

I gotta say, this doesn't seem to carry any Spirit of the Lord and I greatly question some of the verses in this chapter, including this one.

11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

I don’t think it’s wise to throw out passages of the Bible because you opine that they lack the Spirit. Extremely foolish, actually.

These verses are a revelation given to Nathan for David. I don’t believe that Nathan was deceived.

[Reluctant Watchman]

So… my offer still stands. Not one instance where the Lord commanded it.

[CuriousThinker]

Hagar wasn't a wife but Sarah's handmaid. Keturah was Abraham's wife, AFTER Sarah died.

Hagar was Abraham's legitimate wife.

3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Why is Keturah referred to has a concubine if she was Abraham's only wife at the time of their marriage?

32 ¶ Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Why does the Bible state that Abraham had concubines (plural)?

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
5 ¶ And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

I previously explained what I was told about the Law of Hammurabi and property and handmaids. That is an explanation of Hagar. It seems odd that he could legally kick out his own wife under the laws and customs. Property he could.

Well the scriptures clearly refer to her as Abraham's wife, so I'm not really sure how you can insist she isn't.

Abraham wasn't living in Babylon, either. So the code of Hamarabi wouldn't have applied to him.

And what about Keturah being referred to as a concubine and multiple concubines of Abraham being mentioned?

https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... -hammurabi

[CuriousThinker]

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

It can’t be referring to their actual polygamy, because 2 Samuel 12:8 says that the Lord gave them their wives. Therefore, it must be some specific aspect of their polygamy. D&C 132 tells us exactly what—their doing it without Jehovah’s approbation.

I gotta say, this doesn't seem to carry any Spirit of the Lord and I greatly question some of the verses in this chapter, including this one.

11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

I don’t think it’s wise to throw out passages of the Bible because you opine that they lack the Spirit. Extremely foolish, actually.

These verses are a revelation given to Nathan for David. I don’t believe that Nathan was deceived.

Moses wasn't deceived either and neither was Ezekiel, yet passages were altered in theirs, and we know Joseph had not completed the translation. You saying a prophet can't have scripture altered is just as extremely foolish as what you say I am doing.

[LDS Watchman]

Hagar was Abraham's legitimate wife.

3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Why is Keturah referred to has a concubine if she was Abraham's only wife at the time of their marriage?

32 ¶ Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Why does the Bible state that Abraham had concubines (plural)?

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
5 ¶ And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

I previously explained what I was told about the Law of Hammurabi and property and handmaids. That is an explanation of Hagar. It seems odd that he could legally kick out his own wife under the laws and customs. Property he could.

Well the scriptures clearly refer to her as Abraham's wife, so I'm not really sure how you can insist she isn't.

Abraham wasn't living in Babylon, either. So the code of Hamarabi wouldn't have applied to him.

And what about Keturah being referred to as a concubine and multiple concubines of Abraham being mentioned?

https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... -hammurabi

What is this article supposed to show?

It says Hammurabi's code and Hebrew laws were not the same.

Can you offer any explanation for why the bible mentions that Abraham had multiple concubines, including Keturah?

[CuriousThinker]

I previously explained what I was told about the Law of Hammurabi and property and handmaids. That is an explanation of Hagar. It seems odd that he could legally kick out his own wife under the laws and customs. Property he could.

Well the scriptures clearly refer to her as Abraham's wife, so I'm not really sure how you can insist she isn't.

Abraham wasn't living in Babylon, either. So the code of Hamarabi wouldn't have applied to him.

And what about Keturah being referred to as a concubine and multiple concubines of Abraham being mentioned?

https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... -hammurabi

What is this article supposed to show?

It says Hammurabi's code and Hebrew laws were not the same.

Can you offer any explanation for why the bible mentions that Abraham had multiple concubines, including Keturah?

Even though it was a Babylonian code it was in the practice very near to Abraham and possibly influenced him. I was just showing the proximity and time period. I said before that some say that could be why Abraham did what he did, as opposed to being commanded. As to multiple anything, I can't explain. I do not see the Lord asking him to though.

[LDS Watchman]

A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The Lord clearly says that the the Nephites should only have one wife and that to have more than one is a whoredom and an abomination.

Then he says that if he will raise up seed unto Himself he will command his people (to have more than one wife), otherwise they need to follow the command to only have one wife.

Since it's clear that having more than one wife is a whoredom and an abomination, unless God commands it, God obviously commanded Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife. Unless you want to claim that they were committing whoredoms and abusing women.

[LDS Watchman]

Well the scriptures clearly refer to her as Abraham's wife, so I'm not really sure how you can insist she isn't.

Abraham wasn't living in Babylon, either. So the code of Hamarabi wouldn't have applied to him.

And what about Keturah being referred to as a concubine and multiple concubines of Abraham being mentioned?

https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... -hammurabi

What is this article supposed to show?

It says Hammurabi's code and Hebrew laws were not the same.

Can you offer any explanation for why the bible mentions that Abraham had multiple concubines, including Keturah?

Even though it was a Babylonian code it was in the practice very near to Abraham and possibly influenced him. I was just showing the proximity and time period. I said before that some say that could be why Abraham did what he did, as opposed to being commanded. As to multiple anything, I can't explain. I do not see the Lord asking him to though.

Per Jacob 2, if the Lord didn't command Abraham to have wives and concubines (as the scriptures clearly show he had) then he would be guilty of whoredoms and abominations.

Since you don't believe God commanded him to do this, does this mean you believe Father Abraham was guilty of whoredoms and abominations?

[Robin Hood]

This isn’t about polygamy but about marriage/sealing in general.

“Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.“
Mark 12:20-25

Notice Jesus did not say she gets to choose her favorite and be sealed to him.

This is nothing to do with polygamy or with sealing. It refers to a Jewish law which permits a posterity to be credited to someone who is deceased, and is referenced in an attempt to discredit the doctrine of resurrection.
It isn't even a true story, just a made up scenario to illustrate a point about the resurrection. The Sadducees didn't believe in the resurrection.

[CuriousThinker]

https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... -hammurabi

What is this article supposed to show?

It says Hammurabi's code and Hebrew laws were not the same.

Can you offer any explanation for why the bible mentions that Abraham had multiple concubines, including Keturah?

Even though it was a Babylonian code it was in the practice very near to Abraham and possibly influenced him. I was just showing the proximity and time period. I said before that some say that could be why Abraham did what he did, as opposed to being commanded. As to multiple anything, I can't explain. I do not see the Lord asking him to though.

Per Jacob 2, if the Lord didn't command Abraham to have wives and concubines (as the scriptures clearly show he had) then he would be guilty of whoredoms and abominations.

Since you don't believe God commanded him to do this, does this mean you believe Father Abraham was guilty of whoredoms and abominations?

I do not believe 'raise up seed' means polygamy. 'Raise up seed' is used in scripture to show raising up children to the Lord. As stated before it is very possible that scriptures were changed later to reflect whoredoms. It would be easy to excuse their polygamy and concubines if the Lord had previously sanctioned it, but they only tried to use David and Solomon and they were examples of wickedness and they had uncorrupted brass plates. If the Lord wanted lots of kids fast one would think Adam would have polygamy, Noah, Lehi, the Jaredites, the Nephites after Christ came, to name a few, would practice it.

[Robin Hood]

What is this article supposed to show?

It says Hammurabi's code and Hebrew laws were not the same.

Can you offer any explanation for why the bible mentions that Abraham had multiple concubines, including Keturah?

Even though it was a Babylonian code it was in the practice very near to Abraham and possibly influenced him. I was just showing the proximity and time period. I said before that some say that could be why Abraham did what he did, as opposed to being commanded. As to multiple anything, I can't explain. I do not see the Lord asking him to though.

Per Jacob 2, if the Lord didn't command Abraham to have wives and concubines (as the scriptures clearly show he had) then he would be guilty of whoredoms and abominations.

Since you don't believe God commanded him to do this, does this mean you believe Father Abraham was guilty of whoredoms and abominations?

I do not believe 'raise up seed' means polygamy. 'Raise up seed' is used in scripture to show raising up children to the Lord. As stated before it is very possible that scriptures were changed later to reflect whoredoms. It would be easy to excuse their polygamy and concubines if the Lord had previously sanctioned it, but they only tried to use David and Solomon and they were examples of wickedness and they had uncorrupted brass plates. If the Lord wanted lots of kids fast one would think Adam would have polygamy, Noah, Lehi, the Jaredites, the Nephites after Christ came, to name a few, would practice it.

The reason David and Solomon were singled out as committing an abomination, is because they took wives from amongst the surrounding non-Israelite people.
I suspect the Nephites were doing the same, and probably for similar reasons (forming family ties with otherwise potential enemies).

[ransomme]

Where, in the scriptures, does the Lord command (ask) His people to live polygamy? This verse says nothing of the sort.

Classic...

Will you at least concede that the Lord gave His approbation for polygamy when He gave David multiple wives?

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

It can’t be referring to their actual polygamy, because 2 Samuel 12:8 says that the Lord gave them their wives. Therefore, it must be some specific aspect of their polygamy. D&C 132 tells us exactly what—their doing it without Jehovah’s approbation.

First of all, way beyond reasonable doubt exists about the veracity of Section 132. No one should take Section 132 as the word of the Lord via revelation through Joseph Smith.

We have original words as seen in Joseph's journal, vs a doctored account from after Joseph's death. There is a reason why 132 was added nearly 30 years after Joseph's death while removing Joseph's approved teachings about one man and one wife in the old Section 101.

[ransomme]

A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The Lord clearly says that the the Nephites should only have one wife and that to have more than one is a whoredom and an abomination.

Then he says that if he will raise up seed unto Himself he will command his people (to have more than one wife), otherwise they need to follow the command to only have one wife.

Since it's clear that having more than one wife is a whoredom and an abomination, unless God commands it, God obviously commanded Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife. Unless you want to claim that they were committing whoredoms and abusing women.

you misread...30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

To raise up seed means to have a righteous people not to make a lot of babies. Anytime that God leads a remnant out, that is to raise seed. He commanded that many times in the scriptures, from Noah to Lehi and many more. "these things" that his people should "harken unto" is referring to "keep my commandments" in the previous verse.

[Reluctant Watchman]

A bit of a challenge for you pro-polygamy peeps out there. Can you show me one instance in the scriptures where the Lord specifically commanded His people to live polygamy other than D&C 132?

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The Lord clearly says that the the Nephites should only have one wife and that to have more than one is a whoredom and an abomination.

Then he says that if he will raise up seed unto Himself he will command his people (to have more than one wife), otherwise they need to follow the command to only have one wife.

Since it's clear that having more than one wife is a whoredom and an abomination, unless God commands it, God obviously commanded Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife. Unless you want to claim that they were committing whoredoms and abusing women.

Show me where God commanded them? Just because someone does something doesn't me God commanded it.

[Robin Hood]

I think it is the case that there appears to be little evidence in the scriptures that the Lord has ever commanded anyone to have plural wives. That doesn't mean he hasn't, it just means it's not in the scriptures.
I believe the ancient people were pretty similar to us, in that they assumed everything was permissible unless it was specifically ruled out.
I suspect that was why Abraham and others were ok with having additional wives.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I think it is the case that there appears to be little evidence in the scriptures that the Lord has ever commanded anyone to have a plural wives. That doesn't mean he hasn't, it just means it's not in the scriptures.
I believe the ancient people were pretty similar to us, in that they assumed everything was permissible unless it was specifically ruled out.
I suspect that was why Abraham and others were ok with having additional wives.

The Jaradites, King Noah, David, Solomon, Brigham… (the list goes on) of people having done it, but not a single instance where the Lord commanded it. 132 falsely attributes the Lord as having commanded Abraham to have a child with his slave. His wife asked Hagar to be a surrogate mother, SHE asked Abraham to sleep with Hagar, not the Lord.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Also, Isaiah is to be read symbolically, he was not necessarily speaking of a man and women, but the Lord and his people.

Bullsh...

I’m actually surprised you can’t at least concede that this could be taken allegorically. Marriage and the bridegroom is all throughout scripture. That is what this is talking about. The #7 often refers to the world, wholeness, or being complete. As noted earlier, we’ve added chapter breaks to Isaiah, read it in context of the previous chapter.

[ransomme]

Also, Isaiah is to be read symbolically, he was not necessarily speaking of a man and women, but the Lord and his people.

Bullsh...

So Isaiah is written plainly?

Isaiah 29:11–12,18
For you the sum of vision has become as the words of a sealed book which they give to one who is learned, saying,
Please read this, and he answers, I cannot; it is sealed. Or, if they give it to one who is unlearned, saying, Please read this, he answers, I am unlearned.
In that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book and the eyes of the blind see out of gross darkness.

[Reluctant Watchman]

So Isaiah is written plainly?

It's interesting to also add Nephi's own words that he was familiar with the writings of Isaiah, but that he wrote in a more "plain" style so that we could understand.

[ransomme]

So Isaiah is written plainly?

It's interesting to also add Nephi's own words that he was familiar with the writings of Isaiah, but that he wrote in a more "plain" style so that we could understand.

Yeah Nephi,
"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy."

and Joseph
"The Book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written. What John saw he saw in Heaven."

[Mamabear]

So Isaiah is written plainly?

It's interesting to also add Nephi's own words that he was familiar with the writings of Isaiah, but that he wrote in a more "plain" style so that we could understand.

Yeah Nephi,
"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy."

and Joseph
"The Book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written. What John saw he saw in Heaven."

More proof that we don’t have true prophets today….they don’t understand Isaiah or the book of revelation and the prophecies contained in them.