TBM - "when they realize the evil they defended ....

[LDS Watchman]

I'm curious where the breaking point is for most current TBMs. We obviously have a few on here who were unphased by the mandates. And choose to ignore the damage caused, either due to ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

So nobody who’s “in the boat” gonna respond to this?

I thought about this a bit more while working in the yard. A true TBM will never have a breaking point because church leaders can never lead you astray. Members will follow them to hell and do whatever they ask them to do. I do pray for your awakening TBMs, I truly do.

There's no one size fits all response.True believers were effected by Covid in different ways.

Some contracted Covid and had mild systems. Others contracted it and had severe symptoms. Some were hospitalized, some weren't. Some died from Covid. Many had loved ones die from Covid.

Some fully supported the restrictions and praised the vaccine. Others were strongly opposed to the restrictions and vaccine. Most were somewhere in between.

For some this was a major trial of their faith, for many it was a minor one. For some it was really not much of a trial at all.

...And then of course there are some people such as yourself who completely fell away from the church because of it, and are now railing against the church they once loved night and day. All because the church didn't respond to Covid the way they thought it should.

[LDS Watchman]

That's what GS accuses them of, since most true believing members are joining him in his plans to overthrow the governments of all nations that don't measure up to his standards.

Because allowing medical autonomy is such a high standard.

I can't believe how hard it must be for them to sit and watch us make our own decisions about what goes into our bodies it's devastating, really.

Very few people were actually forced against their will to be vaccinated. A lot were pressured to though.

No sane person would think this is grounds for overthrowing all world governments.

[Gadianton Slayer]

That's what GS accuses them of, since most true believing members are joining him in his plans to overthrow the governments of all nations that don't measure up to his standards.

Because allowing medical autonomy is such a high standard.

I can't believe how hard it must be for them to sit and watch us make our own decisions about what goes into our bodies it's devastating, really.

Very few people were actually forced against their will to be vaccinated. A lot were pressured to though.

No sane person would think this is grounds for overthrowing all world governments.

No sane person would think that the covid approach and lockdowns were even remotely ok, and people were forced. In many places the unvaxxed have been segregated. Forced, coerced, bribed, doesn’t matter. None of it should have happened.

The garbage displayed over the last few months is absolutely reason to disobey and “overthrow” world governments.

Do you trust your government, Atti?

[LDS Watchman]

that's your go-to comparison?

It is a false equivalency.

You don’t understand the vaxxeen was designed to gather Zion.

Please read this exchange again. The conversation was about people being called to gather to zion and some dying and suffering because if it.

It had nothing to do with the vaccine.

oops sorry, let me fix that.

It is a false equivalency.


Joseph Smith was calling people to come to Christ, and build Zion. The people harmed following Joseph we harmed by persecutors. (Indirect)

People following BY et al to cross the plains late in the season were harmed because of their arrogance, hubris, false witness, etc. What's more, they tried to cover it up afterwards. (Direct)

Dying of exposure and disease is also an (indirect death). You're being deceptive.

Not everyone who died in Missouri or Nauvoo was murdered, either. Some died from exposer and disease, too. Plus Joseph had told them that they were going to build up Zion and be safe there.

Must have been his arrogance, hubris, false witness, etc. that killed them, right?

[LDS Watchman]

The garbage displayed over the last few months is absolutely reason to disobey and “overthrow” world governments.

Do you trust your government, Atti?

I don't agree with much of what when on during Covid. I think many people panicked and blew things out of proportion.

But, I don't think this is justification to overthrow all governments of the world.

[Gadianton Slayer]

The garbage displayed over the last few months is absolutely reason to disobey and “overthrow” world governments.

Do you trust your government, Atti?

I don't agree with much of what when on during Covid. I think many people panicked and blew things out of proportion.

But, I don't think this is justification to overthrow all governments of the world.

But do you trust your government?

[LDS Watchman]

The garbage displayed over the last few months is absolutely reason to disobey and “overthrow” world governments.

Do you trust your government, Atti?

I don't agree with much of what when on during Covid. I think many people panicked and blew things out of proportion.

But, I don't think this is justification to overthrow all governments of the world.

But do you trust your government?

My trust is in God, and not worldy institutions.

[Gadianton Slayer]

The garbage displayed over the last few months is absolutely reason to disobey and “overthrow” world governments.

Do you trust your government, Atti?

I don't agree with much of what when on during Covid. I think many people panicked and blew things out of proportion.

But, I don't think this is justification to overthrow all governments of the world.

But do you trust your government?

My trust is in God, and not worldy institutions.

Great.

[ransomme]

You don’t understand the vaxxeen was designed to gather Zion.

Please read this exchange again. The conversation was about people being called to gather to zion and some dying and suffering because if it.

It had nothing to do with the vaccine.

oops sorry, let me fix that.

It is a false equivalency.


Joseph Smith was calling people to come to Christ, and build Zion. The people harmed following Joseph we harmed by persecutors. (Indirect)

People following BY et al to cross the plains late in the season were harmed because of their arrogance, hubris, false witness, etc. What's more, they tried to cover it up afterwards. (Direct)

Dying of exposure and disease is also an (indirect death). You're being deceptive.

Not everyone who died in Missouri or Nauvoo was murdered, either. Some died from exposer and disease, too. Plus Joseph had told them that they were going to build up Zion and be safe there.

Must have been his arrogance, hubris, false witness, etc. that killed them, right?

No that is pretty much a foregone conclusion in those days if you leave too late. BY et al used their position to tell people to come and they listened to their detriment.

Your apologetic, first-and-always, ways just don't allow you to look and see the obvious. It also seems to be a source of your muddled, twisted arguments. Saying that people died in Nauvoo from "expose and disease" and comparing that city life to the handcart companies that headed out west (to be exposed to harsh seasonal elements out in the wilderness) later than sense warranted are the same...??? Seriously that is messed up.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I'm curious where the breaking point is for most current TBMs. We obviously have a few on here who were unphased by the mandates. And choose to ignore the damage caused, either due to ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

So nobody who’s “in the boat” gonna respond to this?

I thought about this a bit more while working in the yard. A true TBM will never have a breaking point because church leaders can never lead you astray. Members will follow them to hell and do whatever they ask them to do. I do pray for your awakening TBMs, I truly do.

There's no one size fits all response.True believers were effected by Covid in different ways.

Some contracted Covid and had mild systems. Others contracted it and had severe symptoms. Some were hospitalized, some weren't. Some died from Covid. Many had loved ones die from Covid.

Some fully supported the restrictions and praised the vaccine. Others were strongly opposed to the restrictions and vaccine. Most were somewhere in between.

For some this was a major trial of their faith, for many it was a minor one. For some it was really not much of a trial at all.

...And then of course there are some people such as yourself who completely fell away from the church because of it, and are now railing against the church they once loved night and day. All because the church didn't respond to Covid the way they thought it should.

All those words and you still didn't answer the question. Where is your breaking point?

[h_p]

I don't know a single person who has died or had a serious reaction to the vax. A few people have told me that their arm hurt for a day or they felt under the weather for a day and that's it.

Meanwhile 3 people close to me have died from Covid. Two family friends and my own mother in law. One died before the vaccine was available and the other two refused to get it because of their political views.

My brother in law, who also chose not to get the vaccine, nearly died from Covid, too.

If they did not get early treatment when they got sick, or weren't even aware there was such a thing, they were murdered.

Murdered?

It's starting to look like a lot of people on this forum really don't know what words mean. Maybe that's why there's so much confusion around here.

I know exactly what the word means, and I used it exactly how I meant to use it. Good grief.

[Church_of_the_Lamb]

I'm curious where the breaking point is for most current TBMs. We obviously have a few on here who were unphased by the mandates. And choose to ignore the damage caused, either due to ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

So nobody who’s “in the boat” gonna respond to this?

I thought about this a bit more while working in the yard. A true TBM will never have a breaking point because church leaders can never lead you astray. Members will follow them to hell and do whatever they ask them to do. I do pray for your awakening TBMs, I truly do.

Ya know If I was the adversary, I would teach the doctrine that the church leaders can never lead us astray and then I would have them lead the whole flock of a cliff

[h_p]

Ya know If I was the adversary, I would teach the doctrine that the church leaders can never lead us astray and then I would have them lead the whole flock of a cliff

It's one of the oldest plays in the book. It never gets old because people want so badly to outsource all their thinking and decision-making to someone else.

[kittycat51]

I don't know a single person who has died or had a serious reaction to the vax. A few people have told me that their arm hurt for a day or they felt under the weather for a day and that's it.

Meanwhile 3 people close to me have died from Covid. Two family friends and my own mother in law. One died before the vaccine was available and the other two refused to get it because of their political views.

My brother in law, who also chose not to get the vaccine, nearly died from Covid, too.

People who died from Covid was because they were MISTREATED in the hospitals. Vital treatment that really helps is being withheld and things that kill are being used instead. (Like remdesivir and ventilators) Drs just do what they are told.

My own son ended up in the hospital from Covid. He was getting better but then then his blood oxygen dropped. He went to emergency where they immediately admitted him. They were rude to him because he was not vaxxed. He told them (under my request) to NOT give him remdesivir. They said ok. They then put him on medication that made him extremely drowsy. Because his wife was home very sick with Covid at the same time (and she IS VAXXED) there was no one to advocate for him in the hospital. After several days and him not being able to speak for himself because he was so drugged up, they told him he needed the remdesivir. I was pissed when I found out. ALL he needed when he entered the hospital was help breathing via oxygen which made a difference.

If remdesivir really made a difference as drs claim, it would be like Tamiflu that needs to be given within 48 hours of coming down with the flu. They gave it to my son 2 weeks after he got sick. Remdesivir shuts the kidneys down. (if he has problems with kidney function in the future I will know what to blame.)

My mother had a stroke days after her 2nd dose. My brother who is fit as a fiddle, eats healthy, always hikes, got blood clots in his lungs days after his 2nd dose. My nieces face swelled up after her 2nd dose. My other niece got deathly Ill with both her injections. And my nephew ended up in the hospital after his 2nd dose. 2 weeks later he was dead. Autopsy showed blood clots throughout his whole body, and his organs were ALL greatly damaged. Drs were stunned. Do you think they even thought the vax was a possible cause? No. Because they are taught in medical school to always trust Pharma. The wiser ones are too afraid to speak up in fear of losing their jobs. There was no question in my mind though.

I also know plenty of people in my ward who in the past year have come down with strange health issues. Coincidence? Possibly, but many of the (smart) drs who aren’t afraid of speaking up say it’s because the vax shoots your immune system to heck. ADE (Antibody dependent Enhancement)

[LDS Watchman]

I'm curious where the breaking point is for most current TBMs. We obviously have a few on here who were unphased by the mandates. And choose to ignore the damage caused, either due to ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

So nobody who’s “in the boat” gonna respond to this?

I thought about this a bit more while working in the yard. A true TBM will never have a breaking point because church leaders can never lead you astray. Members will follow them to hell and do whatever they ask them to do. I do pray for your awakening TBMs, I truly do.

There's no one size fits all response.True believers were effected by Covid in different ways.

Some contracted Covid and had mild systems. Others contracted it and had severe symptoms. Some were hospitalized, some weren't. Some died from Covid. Many had loved ones die from Covid.

Some fully supported the restrictions and praised the vaccine. Others were strongly opposed to the restrictions and vaccine. Most were somewhere in between.

For some this was a major trial of their faith, for many it was a minor one. For some it was really not much of a trial at all.

...And then of course there are some people such as yourself who completely fell away from the church because of it, and are now railing against the church they once loved night and day. All because the church didn't respond to Covid the way they thought it should.

All those words and you still didn't answer the question. Where is your breaking point?

Here are some things that would cause me to concede that the church was in full blown apostasy:

If the church performed same-sex marriages/sealing in the temple.

If the church started teaching that certain serious sins weren't sins anymore, like fornication, adultery, or sodomy.

If the church started teaching that the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, or other canonized scriptures weren't really revelations from God.

If the church allowed open elective abortions.

[LDS Watchman]

I don't know a single person who has died or had a serious reaction to the vax. A few people have told me that their arm hurt for a day or they felt under the weather for a day and that's it.

Meanwhile 3 people close to me have died from Covid. Two family friends and my own mother in law. One died before the vaccine was available and the other two refused to get it because of their political views.

My brother in law, who also chose not to get the vaccine, nearly died from Covid, too.

If they did not get early treatment when they got sick, or weren't even aware there was such a thing, they were murdered.

Murdered?

It's starting to look like a lot of people on this forum really don't know what words mean. Maybe that's why there's so much confusion around here.

I know exactly what the word means, and I used it exactly how I meant to use it. Good grief.

So if someone is a little sick and doesn't think it's a big deal, then it gets a little worse, and a little worse, and then once it gets really bad they seek help too late and die, then they were murdered?

I'm sorry, but that's insane.

[John Tavner]

I'm curious where the breaking point is for most current TBMs. We obviously have a few on here who were unphased by the mandates. And choose to ignore the damage caused, either due to ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

So nobody who’s “in the boat” gonna respond to this?

I thought about this a bit more while working in the yard. A true TBM will never have a breaking point because church leaders can never lead you astray. Members will follow them to hell and do whatever they ask them to do. I do pray for your awakening TBMs, I truly do.

Ya know If I was the adversary, I would teach the doctrine that the church leaders can never lead us astray and then I would have them lead the whole flock of a cliff

Your comment reminds me of this video I saw a long time ago

start at 3:58 if you just want to hear the vision he had about the adversary's plan, but the entire clip is good. Total is about 11 minutes long

[h_p]

So if someone is a little sick and doesn't think it's a big deal, then it gets a little worse, and a little worse, and then once it gets really bad they seek help too late and die, then they were murdered?

I'm sorry, but that's insane.

I'm talking specifically about Covid. I don't know what you're talking about. "Seeking help too late" means they go to the hospital when they can't breathe, because knowledge of and access to early treatment was withheld and suppressed with full knowledge of the consequences. And then practically the only thing they were allowed to be treated with was essentially a poison.

I'm not sorry, but that's murder.

[cwass]

I don't know a single person who has died or had a serious reaction to the vax. A few people have told me that their arm hurt for a day or they felt under the weather for a day and that's it.

Meanwhile 3 people close to me have died from Covid. Two family friends and my own mother in law. One died before the vaccine was available and the other two refused to get it because of their political views.

My brother in law, who also chose not to get the vaccine, nearly died from Covid, too.

People who died from Covid was because they were MISTREATED in the hospitals. Vital treatment that really helps is being withheld and things that kill are being used instead. (Like remdesivir and ventilators) Drs just do what they are told.

My own son ended up in the hospital from Covid. He was getting better but then then his blood oxygen dropped. He went to emergency where they immediately admitted him. They were rude to him because he was not vaxxed. He told them (under my request) to NOT give him remdesivir. They said ok. They then put him on medication that made him extremely drowsy. Because his wife was home very sick with Covid at the same time (and she IS VAXXED) there was no one to advocate for him in the hospital. After several days and him not being able to speak for himself because he was so drugged up, they told him he needed the remdesivir. I was pissed when I found out. ALL he needed when he entered the hospital was help breathing via oxygen which made a difference.

If remdesivir really made a difference as drs claim, it would be like Tamiflu that needs to be given within 48 hours of coming down with the flu. They gave it to my son 2 weeks after he got sick. Remdesivir shuts the kidneys down. (if he has problems with kidney function in the future I will know what to blame.)

My mother had a stroke days after her 2nd dose. My brother who is fit as a fiddle, eats healthy, always hikes, got blood clots in his lungs days after his 2nd dose. My nieces face swelled up after her 2nd dose. My other niece got deathly Ill with both her injections. And my nephew ended up in the hospital after his 2nd dose. 2 weeks later he was dead. Autopsy showed blood clots throughout his whole body, and his organs were ALL greatly damaged. Drs were stunned. Do you think they even thought the vax was a possible cause? No. Because they are taught in medical school to always trust Pharma. The wiser ones are too afraid to speak up in fear of losing their jobs. There was no question in my mind though.

I also know plenty of people in my ward who in the past year have come down with strange health issues. Coincidence? Possibly, but many of the (smart) drs who aren’t afraid of speaking up say it’s because the vax shoots your immune system to heck. ADE (Antibody dependent Enhancement)

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. I work in the emergency room and can confirm the rudeness and mistreatment of the unvaxxed. Small story, was working late one night. Parents brought their 6 month old child who was sick. Doctor comes in and asks the parents if they are vaccinated. They both say no, doctor walks out and does not come back. Does not treat the child. To the credit of the vaccinated nurse, she was mortified. She treated the child and wrote the doctor up. The general feeling that I've seen on many occasions is that "oh, you have covid and are unvaccinated? I guess you got what you deserved.".

[FoundMyEden]

I'm curious where the breaking point is for most current TBMs. We obviously have a few on here who were unphased by the mandates. And choose to ignore the damage caused, either due to ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

So nobody who’s “in the boat” gonna respond to this?

I thought about this a bit more while working in the yard. A true TBM will never have a breaking point because church leaders can never lead you astray. Members will follow them to hell and do whatever they ask them to do. I do pray for your awakening TBMs, I truly do.

Ya know If I was the adversary, I would teach the doctrine that the church leaders can never lead us astray and then I would have them lead the whole flock of a cliff

Your comment reminds me of this video I saw a long time ago

start at 3:58 if you just want to hear the vision he had about the adversary's plan, but the entire clip is good. Total is about 11 minutes long

2098, 2099...is he making a prophecy? I sure hope we don't have to wait this long...

[FoundMyEden]

I don't know a single person who has died or had a serious reaction to the vax. A few people have told me that their arm hurt for a day or they felt under the weather for a day and that's it.

Meanwhile 3 people close to me have died from Covid. Two family friends and my own mother in law. One died before the vaccine was available and the other two refused to get it because of their political views.

My brother in law, who also chose not to get the vaccine, nearly died from Covid, too.

People who died from Covid was because they were MISTREATED in the hospitals. Vital treatment that really helps is being withheld and things that kill are being used instead. (Like remdesivir and ventilators) Drs just do what they are told.

My own son ended up in the hospital from Covid. He was getting better but then then his blood oxygen dropped. He went to emergency where they immediately admitted him. They were rude to him because he was not vaxxed. He told them (under my request) to NOT give him remdesivir. They said ok. They then put him on medication that made him extremely drowsy. Because his wife was home very sick with Covid at the same time (and she IS VAXXED) there was no one to advocate for him in the hospital. After several days and him not being able to speak for himself because he was so drugged up, they told him he needed the remdesivir. I was pissed when I found out. ALL he needed when he entered the hospital was help breathing via oxygen which made a difference.

If remdesivir really made a difference as drs claim, it would be like Tamiflu that needs to be given within 48 hours of coming down with the flu. They gave it to my son 2 weeks after he got sick. Remdesivir shuts the kidneys down. (if he has problems with kidney function in the future I will know what to blame.)

My mother had a stroke days after her 2nd dose. My brother who is fit as a fiddle, eats healthy, always hikes, got blood clots in his lungs days after his 2nd dose. My nieces face swelled up after her 2nd dose. My other niece got deathly Ill with both her injections. And my nephew ended up in the hospital after his 2nd dose. 2 weeks later he was dead. Autopsy showed blood clots throughout his whole body, and his organs were ALL greatly damaged. Drs were stunned. Do you think they even thought the vax was a possible cause? No. Because they are taught in medical school to always trust Pharma. The wiser ones are too afraid to speak up in fear of losing their jobs. There was no question in my mind though.

I also know plenty of people in my ward who in the past year have come down with strange health issues. Coincidence? Possibly, but many of the (smart) drs who aren’t afraid of speaking up say it’s because the vax shoots your immune system to heck. ADE (Antibody dependent Enhancement)

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. I work in the emergency room and can confirm the rudeness and mistreatment of the unvaxxed. Small story, was working late one night. Parents brought their 6 month old child who was sick. Doctor comes in and asks the parents if they are vaccinated. They both say no, doctor walks out and does not come back. Does not treat the child. To the credit of the vaccinated nurse, she was mortified. She treated the child and wrote the doctor up. The general feeling that I've seen on many occasions is that "oh, you have covid and are unvaccinated? I guess you got what you deserved.".

Good for the nurse who wrote the doctor up for refusal of treatment. I had refusal from a doctor and the nurses all stood in shock but no one did anything about it. I'm glad to know there are still some doing the right thing.

[John Tavner]

So nobody who’s “in the boat” gonna respond to this?

I thought about this a bit more while working in the yard. A true TBM will never have a breaking point because church leaders can never lead you astray. Members will follow them to hell and do whatever they ask them to do. I do pray for your awakening TBMs, I truly do.

Ya know If I was the adversary, I would teach the doctrine that the church leaders can never lead us astray and then I would have them lead the whole flock of a cliff

Your comment reminds me of this video I saw a long time ago

start at 3:58 if you just want to hear the vision he had about the adversary's plan, but the entire clip is good. Total is about 11 minutes long

2098, 2099...is he making a prophecy? I sure hope we don't have to wait this long...

No, I got the impression he was just giving out a date that was far out there and it was more off-hand not the focus, Though thinking about it, as the scripture says - all men would be lost or something to that effect if Chrsit didn't come before then... so there is that! Imagine another 80 years accelerated like the past 10 years... It wouldn't surprise me if the devil would win without intervention from God.

[FoundMyEden]

Ya know If I was the adversary, I would teach the doctrine that the church leaders can never lead us astray and then I would have them lead the whole flock of a cliff

Your comment reminds me of this video I saw a long time ago

start at 3:58 if you just want to hear the vision he had about the adversary's plan, but the entire clip is good. Total is about 11 minutes long

2098, 2099...is he making a prophecy? I sure hope we don't have to wait this long...

No, I got the impression he was just giving out a date that was far out there and it was more off-hand not the focus, Though thinking about it, as the scripture says - all men would be lost or something to that effect if Chrsit didn't come before then... so there is that! Imagine another 80 years accelerated like the past 10 years... It wouldn't surprise me if the devil would win without intervention from God.

Very true.

[ransomme]

The garbage displayed over the last few months is absolutely reason to disobey and “overthrow” world governments.

Do you trust your government, Atti?

I don't agree with much of what when on during Covid. I think many people panicked and blew things out of proportion.

But, I don't think this is justification to overthrow all governments of the world.

But do you trust your government?

My trust is in God, and not worldy institutions.

But God's spokesman told you to trust your government.

Hmm that also applied to the Russian and Chinese members... So if those members should listen to governments I suppose we can too.

Anyone who "listens" to their government, more often than not, will err.

Governments exist on the principle of force, by the threat of force. Governments always need to be held accountable by righteous citizens, because all governments gravitate towards tyranny.

[LDS Watchman]

No that is pretty much a foregone conclusion in those days if you leave too late. BY et al used their position to tell people to come and they listened to their detriment.

Your apologetic, first-and-always, ways just don't allow you to look and see the obvious. It also seems to be a source of your muddled, twisted arguments. Saying that people died in Nauvoo from "expose and disease" and comparing that city life to the handcart companies that headed out west (to be exposed to harsh seasonal elements out in the wilderness) later than sense warranted are the same...???

Have you considered that God wanted the Willy and Martin handcart companies to go through what they did?

Those who survived learned to put their trust fully in God. They experienced incredible miracles. They passed through the refiners fire.