A challenge for all Phil Davis/DoC junkies

[Grassland]

What I will say below, I have said elsewhere. I am posting it here today because it's clear LDSFF has become infiltrated and now dominated by PDDoC (Phil Davis Doctrine of Christ) addicts.

Someone said on LDSFF (speaking of Phil Davis): "As far as men being held up on a pedestal I see the exact opposite. The teaching has never been to follow these men, but to go directly to the Lord and seek to follow commandments directly from Him."

This statement is provably false.

Phil Davis does teach to follow him. Want to know how you can test this statement? Here's how:

1. Admit that you're addicted to the DoC group. All Phil Davis addicts are. They are just like the Snufferites (that's why they detest them so...it's like looking in a mirror to them. "Ugh, you guys, Denver is so, like, false. He's like - ugh, such a false prophet. Gross.").

2. I hereby challenge any one of you to stop attending their gatherings/cottage meetings/school of the prophets for a year and walk with Jesus alone.

Just you...and Jesus.

No takers eh? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Jesus alone isn't appealing enough for them. They need the "brotherhood" and the "fellowship."

Challenging these people to connect with Jesus alone will cause them to bristle. They do have lots of excuses why it's not necessary for them to separate from nursing at the teat of Phil Davis. "We need community." Yes, true...but people are so quickly jumping ship from membership in the church to landing in Phil's-school-of-the-Phil meetings/community/cottage gatherings that they don't ever take time to 1. detox and 2. connect directly with Jesus. Even the apostle Paul, after converting to Christ, took three years to learn how to pray and commune with Jehovah (Galations 1).

Here's the truth:

Phil may outwardly "preach" to go directly to Christ...but if your "ascension" experience doesn't fit his 7-tiered-diagramed-ascension-whatever-you-want-to-call-it thing, you didn't have it. Period. You need Phil to tell you what it was, is, and what is to become. Admit it. Admit it and you'll save yourself painful threads of rebuttals that go in circles.

Who is Phil Davis... a 50+ year old. Single male. No job. Plenty of opportunities for marriage as evidenced by the amount of women who attend his gatherings to hang on his words (including married ones. Ahem). He has an Aspergers level of fixation on preaching the same obsessive topics...you want to call it "devotion" and "love of the Lord". But let's be honest, Jesus often takes a back seat to most of his and DoC pet topics. Candid honesty and basic discernment says something about him isn't fully right. And you know it, if you're truly honest with yourself.

Is he charismatic? Yes. It causes boys to flock around him like stags with surging testosterone, knocking horns to see who has the strongest rack. They like to hang on his every word while simultaneously professing they really don't care about him or what he has to say. For men who have lacked a strong male presence in their lives, he exudes a type of 'manliness' that many boys are wanting and they confuse his Aspergers for what manhood must look like. Thank God real men see through Phil's facade (or disability) and go back to their families and live productive lives...without the need for another meeting, another gathering, another Phil "by the power of Greyskull-in-a-hurricane-while-being-struck-by-lightening-during-an-earthquake" voiceover dramatic overture of his adventures with Jesus.

Please, for the Love of all that is Good in this world....have the courage to leave the DoC groups and get back to living in real time with your families and being the men (and women) who rise up...alone...with just you and Jesus. Teach your kids to walk with Jesus. You don't do this by going to more gatherings. You do this with Jesus and you. Just the two of you, no one else. Do this until you learn how to walk with Him and stand alone and know Him so intimately that nothing can keep you from doing His will. Those are the real Jesus lovers. They do more than profess. They are, in word and deed, the real disciples. Until then, you will continue suckling his breast and smacking your lips at the crumbs that fall from his well oiled man-beard....Coincidently not to dissimilarly from the Snufferites...your brethren and sisteren in idol worship disguised and professed to be pure Jesus worship.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Phil is god.

[Robin Hood]

What I will say below, I have said elsewhere. I am posting it here today because it's clear LDSFF has become infiltrated and now dominated by PDDoC (Phil Davis Doctrine of Christ) addicts.

Someone said on LDSFF (speaking of Phil Davis): "As far as men being held up on a pedestal I see the exact opposite. The teaching has never been to follow these men, but to go directly to the Lord and seek to follow commandments directly from Him."

This statement is provably false.

Phil Davis does teach to follow him. Want to know how you can test this statement? Here's how:

1. Admit that you're addicted to the DoC group. All Phil Davis addicts are. They are just like the Snufferites (that's why they detest them so...it's like looking in a mirror to them. "Ugh, you guys, Denver is so, like, false. He's like - ugh, such a false prophet. Gross.").

2. I hereby challenge any one of you to stop attending their gatherings/cottage meetings/school of the prophets for a year and walk with Jesus alone.

Just you...and Jesus.

No takers eh? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Jesus alone isn't appealing enough for them. They need the "brotherhood" and the "fellowship."

Challenging these people to connect with Jesus alone will cause them to bristle. They do have lots of excuses why it's not necessary for them to separate from nursing at the teat of Phil Davis. "We need community." Yes, true...but people are so quickly jumping ship from membership in the church to landing in Phil's-school-of-the-Phil meetings/community/cottage gatherings that they don't ever take time to 1. detox and 2. connect directly with Jesus. Even the apostle Paul, after converting to Christ, took three years to learn how to pray and commune with Jehovah (Galations 1).

Here's the truth:

Phil may outwardly "preach" to go directly to Christ...but if your "ascension" experience doesn't fit his 7-tiered-diagramed-ascension-whatever-you-want-to-call-it thing, you didn't have it. Period. You need Phil to tell you what it was, is, and what is to become. Admit it. Admit it and you'll save yourself painful threads of rebuttals that go in circles.

Who is Phil Davis... a 50+ year old. Single male. No job. Plenty of opportunities for marriage as evidenced by the amount of women who attend his gatherings to hang on his words (including married ones. Ahem). He has an Aspergers level of fixation on preaching the same obsessive topics...you want to call it "devotion" and "love of the Lord". But let's be honest, Jesus often takes a back seat to most of his and DoC pet topics. Candid honesty and basic discernment says something about him isn't fully right. And you know it, if you're truly honest with yourself.

Is he charismatic? Yes. It causes boys to flock around him like stags with surging testosterone, knocking horns to see who has the strongest rack. They like to hang on his every word while simultaneously professing they really don't care about him or what he has to say. For men who have lacked a strong male presence in their lives, he exudes a type of 'manliness' that many boys are wanting and they confuse his Aspergers for what manhood must look like. Thank God real men see through Phil's facade (or disability) and go back to their families and live productive lives...without the need for another meeting, another gathering, another Phil "by the power of Greyskull-in-a-hurricane-while-being-struck-by-lightening-during-an-earthquake" voiceover dramatic overture of his adventures with Jesus.

Please, for the Love of all that is Good in this world....have the courage to leave the DoC groups and get back to living in real time with your families and being the men (and women) who rise up...alone...with just you and Jesus. Teach your kids to walk with Jesus. You don't do this by going to more gatherings. You do this with Jesus and you. Just the two of you, no one else. Do this until you learn how to walk with Him and stand alone and know Him so intimately that nothing can keep you from doing His will. Those are the real Jesus lovers. They do more than profess. They are, in word and deed, the real disciples. Until then, you will continue suckling his breast and smacking your lips at the crumbs that fall from his well oiled man-beard....Coincidently not to dissimilarly from the Snufferites...your brethren and sisteren in idol worship disguised and professed to be pure Jesus worship.

If what you say is true of the DoC movement, your advice is good.
Shows how much I know.... I thought DoC and Snufferites were the same thing. I'd seen this Phil Davis character mentioned on this forum and assumed he was a Snufferite.
Sometimes, being over here in the old country has it's advantages.

[Mamabear]

I dont follow the group. Phil is right about Christ’s doctrine. But I think he’s wrong about the servant, mmp, and other things.

[John Tavner]

What I will say below, I have said elsewhere. I am posting it here today because it's clear LDSFF has become infiltrated and now dominated by PDDoC (Phil Davis Doctrine of Christ) addicts.

Someone said on LDSFF (speaking of Phil Davis): "As far as men being held up on a pedestal I see the exact opposite. The teaching has never been to follow these men, but to go directly to the Lord and seek to follow commandments directly from Him."

This statement is provably false.

Phil Davis does teach to follow him. Want to know how you can test this statement? Here's how:

1. Admit that you're addicted to the DoC group. All Phil Davis addicts are. They are just like the Snufferites (that's why they detest them so...it's like looking in a mirror to them. "Ugh, you guys, Denver is so, like, false. He's like - ugh, such a false prophet. Gross.").

2. I hereby challenge any one of you to stop attending their gatherings/cottage meetings/school of the prophets for a year and walk with Jesus alone.

Just you...and Jesus.

No takers eh? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Jesus alone isn't appealing enough for them. They need the "brotherhood" and the "fellowship."

Challenging these people to connect with Jesus alone will cause them to bristle. They do have lots of excuses why it's not necessary for them to separate from nursing at the teat of Phil Davis. "We need community." Yes, true...but people are so quickly jumping ship from membership in the church to landing in Phil's-school-of-the-Phil meetings/community/cottage gatherings that they don't ever take time to 1. detox and 2. connect directly with Jesus. Even the apostle Paul, after converting to Christ, took three years to learn how to pray and commune with Jehovah (Galations 1).

Here's the truth:

Phil may outwardly "preach" to go directly to Christ...but if your "ascension" experience doesn't fit his 7-tiered-diagramed-ascension-whatever-you-want-to-call-it thing, you didn't have it. Period. You need Phil to tell you what it was, is, and what is to become. Admit it. Admit it and you'll save yourself painful threads of rebuttals that go in circles.

Who is Phil Davis... a 50+ year old. Single male. No job. Plenty of opportunities for marriage as evidenced by the amount of women who attend his gatherings to hang on his words (including married ones. Ahem). He has an Aspergers level of fixation on preaching the same obsessive topics...you want to call it "devotion" and "love of the Lord". But let's be honest, Jesus often takes a back seat to most of his and DoC pet topics. Candid honesty and basic discernment says something about him isn't fully right. And you know it, if you're truly honest with yourself.

Is he charismatic? Yes. It causes boys to flock around him like stags with surging testosterone, knocking horns to see who has the strongest rack. They like to hang on his every word while simultaneously professing they really don't care about him or what he has to say. For men who have lacked a strong male presence in their lives, he exudes a type of 'manliness' that many boys are wanting and they confuse his Aspergers for what manhood must look like. Thank God real men see through Phil's facade (or disability) and go back to their families and live productive lives...without the need for another meeting, another gathering, another Phil "by the power of Greyskull-in-a-hurricane-while-being-struck-by-lightening-during-an-earthquake" voiceover dramatic overture of his adventures with Jesus.

Please, for the Love of all that is Good in this world....have the courage to leave the DoC groups and get back to living in real time with your families and being the men (and women) who rise up...alone...with just you and Jesus. Teach your kids to walk with Jesus. You don't do this by going to more gatherings. You do this with Jesus and you. Just the two of you, no one else. Do this until you learn how to walk with Him and stand alone and know Him so intimately that nothing can keep you from doing His will. Those are the real Jesus lovers. They do more than profess. They are, in word and deed, the real disciples. Until then, you will continue suckling his breast and smacking your lips at the crumbs that fall from his well oiled man-beard....Coincidently not to dissimilarly from the Snufferites...your brethren and sisteren in idol worship disguised and professed to be pure Jesus worship.

Some of this is true, through written with a bit of hyperbole. It is true that If your experience isn't the same, he (Phil) does not believe you received the GoHG before he did or before a certain period of time (something to do with Joseph Smith awakening from waht I understand), I myself had that conversation with him and he didn't believe that I had received teh GotHG. He is/was pretty strict on that. He did seem like a nice guy though. For a bit I hung out with the DoC crowd for a bit. Wasn't for me long term and after a couple months I was done. Some I think aren't so associated as much as you say, but I understand you are painting with a broad brush. Some even original close followers seem to be drifting away from Phil a bit. Some of them are actually really cruel and have threatened litigation for "slander" as they call it. Regardless, the key is to come to the Lord. Sometimes people pop into groups for a short time so they can learn something and leave. I also agree it is important to walk with the Lord. However, I also believe it is important for believers to gather together, however that may be and to discuss the Lord. I do think, unintentially a lot of people follow Phil, even when they think they aren't. I also find that many of the people who yell at Phil or even any of the other people are often over-zealous themselves and tell people to "follow the Lord alone" but then if someone disagrees with that individual, who declares a person must "follow the LOrd alone," than what the "FLA" person believes then they are deceived and any other ad hominem attacks. All of which are possible, I suppose, (I'm also not calling you out, just offering my experience, because I don't know you, unless your initials are M.B. and in that case than I do, and you have to look in heart with the Lord's help to see if it is true).

Edit: to clarify why he doesn't believe one could have received the BoF&HG before a certain time period... From His believf 2008 was too early.

[Luke]

it's clear LDSFF has become infiltrated and now dominated by PDDoC (Phil Davis Doctrine of Christ) addicts.

100% mate.

[Luke]

Their understanding of Priesthood as taught on their website shows just how little they actually know.

[IcedKoffee]

As the person who helped Phil Davis build the sub group that would later become the DOC group. I suppose there’s no one more qualified to speak on this topic then myself. I’m the person who posted the controversial topic about my meeting with Enzio Buche.


Phil Davis is the friend who invited me to that meeting. He gave me his permission to use his name last year. There were others in attendance who wish to remain anonymous so for that reason I won’t be discussing any further details. Feel free to reach out to Phil for his side of the story.

I’ve also been a long time lurker here on the forum. One of my last posts was titled “what if the mark of the beast is a vaccine” Under the username Ikinessi back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?t=16369





Phil and I had a business relationship before he began holding meetings and preaching full time. As some of of you may already know Phil was the co-creator of a high end chocolate factory in downtown Provo. At the time I had an ice cream business that I was trying to get off the ground. I approached Phil about doing business together, and he allowed me to begin producing ice cream out of his chocolate factory. A year later Phil began teaching me about the doctrines of the Second Comforter, BOFHG….etc…etc! Shortly after, Phil would invite me to tag along with him on his teaching engagements. He would teach the lesson and then ask me to share my spiritual experiences, and testimony. This would lay the foundation for the sub group.

I’d like to take this time to speak to the Members of the DOC group directly. Aside from those of you who know me personally I imagine some of you have heard about me by now. Before the group turned into what it currently is our primary focus was on helping people to receive their BOFHG and 2C. Little by little Phil began prepping us for the idea that Joseph Smith would be returning soon. Almost immediately our focus shifted from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. The changes in the spirit were glaringly obvious to many of us. So much so, that many of the original group members ended up leaving.

We began drifting further and further away from our original intent. Which was to help people break free from IDOLATRY! Regardless of whoever you believe the servant is or isn’t. When the FAKES COME SWARMING IN the only way you will be able to discern the difference will be based on your relationship with Jesus Christ alone. Looking to anyone but Jesus is idolatry. Teaching people that Joseph is coming back before they’ve even received the Holy Ghost is only setting them up for failure in my opinion. I’m not asking you guys to believe in what I believe or to stop believing in what you believe. I’m only asking that you fix your gaze back upon Jesus. I know my words don’t carry much weight within Phil’s group anymore but as the co founder of the sub group I felt that I needed to say something. I enjoyed the movie, and I watch your videos from time to time. You guys seem to be doing some great things. But many of us who have since parted ways with Phil are very concerned as to where this group is heading. I hope you guys understand that I am reaching out to you as a brother in Christ. Tell Phil I’m here if he ever wants to catch up. I know he’s catching a lot of flack these days but maybe this is a good opportunity to reflect and reevaluate something’s. Take care and God bless!

[darknesstolight]

What I will say below, I have said elsewhere. I am posting it here today because it's clear LDSFF has become infiltrated and now dominated by PDDoC (Phil Davis Doctrine of Christ) addicts.

With this opening statement you reveal your bias and prejudice and although I haven't even read anything more than this I am going to take everything you say from here on out with a grain of salt I don't generally apply and this as a result of the fact that you have a strong bias as manifested in your paragraph where you call the people who you think associate with DoC, addicts, which is a perjorative and information you can't know about a stranger without having spent considerable time with them, etc.

...

[darknesstolight]

As the person who helped Phil Davis build the sub group that would later become the DOC group. I suppose there’s no one more qualified to speak on this topic then myself. I’m the person who posted the controversial topic about my meeting with Enzio Buche.


Phil Davis is the friend who invited me to that meeting. He gave me his permission to use his name last year. There were others in attendance who wish to remain anonymous so for that reason I won’t be discussing any further details. Feel free to reach out to Phil for his side of the story.

I’ve also been a long time lurker here on the forum. One of my last posts was titled “what if the mark of the beast is a vaccine” Under the username Ikinessi back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?t=16369





Phil and I had a business relationship before he began holding meetings and preaching full time. As some of of you may already know Phil was the co-creator of a high end chocolate factory in downtown Provo. At the time I had an ice cream business that I was trying to get off the ground. I approached Phil about doing business together, and he allowed me to begin producing ice cream out of his chocolate factory. A year later Phil began teaching me about the doctrines of the Second Comforter, BOFHG….etc…etc! Shortly after, Phil would invite me to tag along with him on his teaching engagements. He would teach the lesson and then ask me to share my spiritual experiences, and testimony. This would lay the foundation for the sub group.

I’d like to take this time to speak to the Members of the DOC group directly. Aside from those of you who know me personally I imagine some of you have heard about me by now. Before the group turned into what it currently is our primary focus was on helping people to receive their BOFHG and 2C. Little by little Phil began prepping us for the idea that Joseph Smith would be returning soon. Almost immediately our focus shifted from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. The changes in the spirit were glaringly obvious to many of us. So much so, that many of the original group members ended up leaving.

We began drifting further and further away from our original intent. Which was to help people break free from IDOLATRY! Regardless of whoever you believe the servant is or isn’t. When the FAKES COME SWARMING IN the only way you will be able to discern the difference will be based on your relationship with Jesus Christ alone. Looking to anyone but Jesus is idolatry. Teaching people that Joseph is coming back before they’ve even received the Holy Ghost is only setting them up for failure in my opinion. I’m not asking you guys to believe in what I believe or to stop believing in what you believe. I’m only asking that you fix your gaze back upon Jesus. I know my words don’t carry much weight within Phil’s group anymore but as the co founder of the sub group I felt that I needed to say something. I enjoyed the movie, and I watch your videos from time to time. You guys seem to be doing some great things. But many of us who have since parted ways with Phil are very concerned as to where this group is heading. I hope you guys understand that I am reaching out to you as a brother in Christ. Tell Phil I’m here if he ever wants to catch up. I know he’s catching a lot of flack these days but maybe this is a good opportunity to reflect and reevaluate something’s. Take care and God bless!

Since you made this public I'll opine and say that perhaps you can reach out to Phil directly and let him know how you feel personally.

...

[darknesstolight]

Without me having to go to a website can someone fairly summarize what makes Phil and the DoC group stand out or what's their message?

Thank you.

...

[IcedKoffee]

As the person who helped Phil Davis build the sub group that would later become the DOC group. I suppose there’s no one more qualified to speak on this topic then myself. I’m the person who posted the controversial topic about my meeting with Enzio Buche.


Phil Davis is the friend who invited me to that meeting. He gave me his permission to use his name last year. There were others in attendance who wish to remain anonymous so for that reason I won’t be discussing any further details. Feel free to reach out to Phil for his side of the story.

I’ve also been a long time lurker here on the forum. One of my last posts was titled “what if the mark of the beast is a vaccine” Under the username Ikinessi back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?t=16369





Phil and I had a business relationship before he began holding meetings and preaching full time. As some of of you may already know Phil was the co-creator of a high end chocolate factory in downtown Provo. At the time I had an ice cream business that I was trying to get off the ground. I approached Phil about doing business together, and he allowed me to begin producing ice cream out of his chocolate factory. A year later Phil began teaching me about the doctrines of the Second Comforter, BOFHG….etc…etc! Shortly after, Phil would invite me to tag along with him on his teaching engagements. He would teach the lesson and then ask me to share my spiritual experiences, and testimony. This would lay the foundation for the sub group.

I’d like to take this time to speak to the Members of the DOC group directly. Aside from those of you who know me personally I imagine some of you have heard about me by now. Before the group turned into what it currently is our primary focus was on helping people to receive their BOFHG and 2C. Little by little Phil began prepping us for the idea that Joseph Smith would be returning soon. Almost immediately our focus shifted from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. The changes in the spirit were glaringly obvious to many of us. So much so, that many of the original group members ended up leaving.

We began drifting further and further away from our original intent. Which was to help people break free from IDOLATRY! Regardless of whoever you believe the servant is or isn’t. When the FAKES COME SWARMING IN the only way you will be able to discern the difference will be based on your relationship with Jesus Christ alone. Looking to anyone but Jesus is idolatry. Teaching people that Joseph is coming back before they’ve even received the Holy Ghost is only setting them up for failure in my opinion. I’m not asking you guys to believe in what I believe or to stop believing in what you believe. I’m only asking that you fix your gaze back upon Jesus. I know my words don’t carry much weight within Phil’s group anymore but as the co founder of the sub group I felt that I needed to say something. I enjoyed the movie, and I watch your videos from time to time. You guys seem to be doing some great things. But many of us who have since parted ways with Phil are very concerned as to where this group is heading. I hope you guys understand that I am reaching out to you as a brother in Christ. Tell Phil I’m here if he ever wants to catch up. I know he’s catching a lot of flack these days but maybe this is a good opportunity to reflect and reevaluate something’s. Take care and God bless!

Since you made this public I'll opine and say that perhaps you can reach out to Phil directly and let him know how you feel personally.

...

Unfortunately, we are no longer on speaking terms. It’s hard to talk to someone who has no interest in speaking to you.

[darknesstolight]

As the person who helped Phil Davis build the sub group that would later become the DOC group. I suppose there’s no one more qualified to speak on this topic then myself. I’m the person who posted the controversial topic about my meeting with Enzio Buche.


Phil Davis is the friend who invited me to that meeting. He gave me his permission to use his name last year. There were others in attendance who wish to remain anonymous so for that reason I won’t be discussing any further details. Feel free to reach out to Phil for his side of the story.

I’ve also been a long time lurker here on the forum. One of my last posts was titled “what if the mark of the beast is a vaccine” Under the username Ikinessi back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?t=16369





Phil and I had a business relationship before he began holding meetings and preaching full time. As some of of you may already know Phil was the co-creator of a high end chocolate factory in downtown Provo. At the time I had an ice cream business that I was trying to get off the ground. I approached Phil about doing business together, and he allowed me to begin producing ice cream out of his chocolate factory. A year later Phil began teaching me about the doctrines of the Second Comforter, BOFHG….etc…etc! Shortly after, Phil would invite me to tag along with him on his teaching engagements. He would teach the lesson and then ask me to share my spiritual experiences, and testimony. This would lay the foundation for the sub group.

I’d like to take this time to speak to the Members of the DOC group directly. Aside from those of you who know me personally I imagine some of you have heard about me by now. Before the group turned into what it currently is our primary focus was on helping people to receive their BOFHG and 2C. Little by little Phil began prepping us for the idea that Joseph Smith would be returning soon. Almost immediately our focus shifted from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. The changes in the spirit were glaringly obvious to many of us. So much so, that many of the original group members ended up leaving.

We began drifting further and further away from our original intent. Which was to help people break free from IDOLATRY! Regardless of whoever you believe the servant is or isn’t. When the FAKES COME SWARMING IN the only way you will be able to discern the difference will be based on your relationship with Jesus Christ alone. Looking to anyone but Jesus is idolatry. Teaching people that Joseph is coming back before they’ve even received the Holy Ghost is only setting them up for failure in my opinion. I’m not asking you guys to believe in what I believe or to stop believing in what you believe. I’m only asking that you fix your gaze back upon Jesus. I know my words don’t carry much weight within Phil’s group anymore but as the co founder of the sub group I felt that I needed to say something. I enjoyed the movie, and I watch your videos from time to time. You guys seem to be doing some great things. But many of us who have since parted ways with Phil are very concerned as to where this group is heading. I hope you guys understand that I am reaching out to you as a brother in Christ. Tell Phil I’m here if he ever wants to catch up. I know he’s catching a lot of flack these days but maybe this is a good opportunity to reflect and reevaluate something’s. Take care and God bless!

Since you made this public I'll opine and say that perhaps you can reach out to Phil directly and let him know how you feel personally.

...

Unfortunately, we are no longer on speaking terms. It’s hard to talk to someone who has no interest in speaking to you.

That's a hard place to be in when you care about someone.

...

[nightlight]

I'm always ignorant of these guys until someone makes some strange emotional post about them.

Whats funny is the OP description fits with a lot of the mainstream lds

For every pointed finger .... there's 3 pointed back at you. At least that's what some homeless guy told me after I bummed a cigarette from him.
Life's just full paradox

[Redpilled Mormon]

Without me having to go to a website can someone fairly summarize what makes Phil and the DoC group stand out or what's their message?

Thank you.

...

I'll give it a quick shot, but bear in mind I've only watched some of their videos and have only attended 3 of their meetings so far (sacrament meetings, afterwards Phil led the discussion, and the group is currently studying Revelations, so that was what they were talking about)

1 - I think one of the main associations people have of them is that they are heavily associated with the movie 'Who Killed Joseph Smith'. That's not something they discussed doctrinally or during any of the sacrament meetings I attended with them, but in the small group I attended with (<35 people) I recognized the man who played Joseph Smith in that movie, as well as the man who played Hyrum. Also the man who played John Taylor was actually hosting the meeting in his house. I didn't meet/see the director and one the men mentioned that the person who played Willard Richards lives in Texas, so he wasn't in attendance at that meeting either (though possibly he attends with a local group nearer to where he lives).

2 - A lot of default lds beliefs we're all familiar with hold sway, so I won't mention most of them. Things like believing Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Book of Mormon is scripture, etc.

3 - They don't believe in polygamy, or that Joseph was a polygamist (which I agree with them on). Lots of their videos point out evidence supporting this viewpoint.

4 - They believe the Savior took his name from the lds church and brought it under condemnation and I think most of them would point to D&C 124 as a pretty good evidence of that (again, I pretty much agree here). They do a fair number of vids pointing out the ways in which the lds corp doesn't follow the scriptures, particularly the BoM, and espouses a lot of 'all is well in zion, go back to sleep so you can be led carefully down to hell..' stuff.

5 - They believe that the Melchezidek priesthood was taken away from the lds church when the Savior condemned them, although the Aaronic priesthood was left in place, so things like baptisms and blessing the sacrament are still valid, but higher ordinances the lds corp has no authority to perform. They liken this to the Israelites in the time of Moses who refused to go to the mountain, so they were given a lower law.

6 - They believe that attaining the 2nd comforter (ie seeing the Savior face-to-face within mortality) is possible, and in fact something we should all aspire to attain in this life, not just waiting for the life to come. (I'm all for the notion of going 'Full Enos', so to speak, and I like this aspiration, though I'm nowhere near ready for something like that myself and I would probably be blasted to atoms if I was brought into the Savior's presence).

7 - They generally believe that Joseph Smith will come back for a 2nd round of mortality (or even that he's already alive and working right now) and that Joseph will be the Davidic Servant for the end times (I tend to disagree personally, but I'm kinda agnostic on this and don't know one way or the other, or even why it particularly matters what the identity of the Davidic Servant is. I do find it odd the idea of anyone getting a 2nd shot at morality within the same creation period. I can see the logical argument for multiple mortal probations, but I find the notion strange that someone gets more than one time for a mortal life during the same creation period).

8 - They strongly believe that the new and everlasting covenant has nothing to do with marriage (certainly not plural marriage) but instead is to come to the Savior with a broken heart and contrite spirit, and from that covenant to receive a baptism of fire and with the Holy Ghost. (I also agree with them on this one, though I'm not as certain I 100% agree on what the definition of the baptism of fire and the baptism of the Holy Ghost are).

9 - Phil himself claims to have had a 2nd comforter experience. Similar in description to a NDE, being carried away in the spirit and meeting the Savior face-to-face. This wasn't ever discussed in any of the meetings I attended, but he's quite open about describing the experience and testifying of Christ. There is a video of him being interviewed by Jacob Isbell on the 'Disciple of Christ' youtube channel where he gives a blow-by-blow description of what happened and what he saw.

I think those are some of the main points, but I'm sure I'm missing some. I'll come back and add to the list as I remember others. My general overall impression of the Doctrine of Christ group is very positive, I felt they are humble and seeking to draw near to and follow Christ, I also think they have excellent and deep scriptural insights (going from some of their youtube vids). I disagree on several of their conclusions, sometimes being agnostic but on other things I have a gut reaction disagreement, but they didn't throw me out on my ear or anything and I very much appreciated attending the sacrament meeting with them the 3 times I have gone so far. I should also mention the sacrament is quite spiritual, nearly everyone kneels to receive and the bread is a big chunk of bread, takes some time and several bites to eat it and is not the blink-and-you-missed-it we're used to in standard lds meetings, also they use the 'wine' vernacular in the prayer, not water, and it is a full cup of grape juice.

[Reluctant Watchman]

As the person who helped Phil Davis build the sub group that would later become the DOC group. I suppose there’s no one more qualified to speak on this topic then myself. I’m the person who posted the controversial topic about my meeting with Enzio Buche.


Phil Davis is the friend who invited me to that meeting. He gave me his permission to use his name last year. There were others in attendance who wish to remain anonymous so for that reason I won’t be discussing any further details. Feel free to reach out to Phil for his side of the story.

I’ve also been a long time lurker here on the forum. One of my last posts was titled “what if the mark of the beast is a vaccine” Under the username Ikinessi back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?t=16369





Phil and I had a business relationship before he began holding meetings and preaching full time. As some of of you may already know Phil was the co-creator of a high end chocolate factory in downtown Provo. At the time I had an ice cream business that I was trying to get off the ground. I approached Phil about doing business together, and he allowed me to begin producing ice cream out of his chocolate factory. A year later Phil began teaching me about the doctrines of the Second Comforter, BOFHG….etc…etc! Shortly after, Phil would invite me to tag along with him on his teaching engagements. He would teach the lesson and then ask me to share my spiritual experiences, and testimony. This would lay the foundation for the sub group.

I’d like to take this time to speak to the Members of the DOC group directly. Aside from those of you who know me personally I imagine some of you have heard about me by now. Before the group turned into what it currently is our primary focus was on helping people to receive their BOFHG and 2C. Little by little Phil began prepping us for the idea that Joseph Smith would be returning soon. Almost immediately our focus shifted from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. The changes in the spirit were glaringly obvious to many of us. So much so, that many of the original group members ended up leaving.

We began drifting further and further away from our original intent. Which was to help people break free from IDOLATRY! Regardless of whoever you believe the servant is or isn’t. When the FAKES COME SWARMING IN the only way you will be able to discern the difference will be based on your relationship with Jesus Christ alone. Looking to anyone but Jesus is idolatry. Teaching people that Joseph is coming back before they’ve even received the Holy Ghost is only setting them up for failure in my opinion. I’m not asking you guys to believe in what I believe or to stop believing in what you believe. I’m only asking that you fix your gaze back upon Jesus. I know my words don’t carry much weight within Phil’s group anymore but as the co founder of the sub group I felt that I needed to say something. I enjoyed the movie, and I watch your videos from time to time. You guys seem to be doing some great things. But many of us who have since parted ways with Phil are very concerned as to where this group is heading. I hope you guys understand that I am reaching out to you as a brother in Christ. Tell Phil I’m here if he ever wants to catch up. I know he’s catching a lot of flack these days but maybe this is a good opportunity to reflect and reevaluate something’s. Take care and God bless!

I appreciate the backstory. Kind of fills in a few holes for me.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I should also mention the sacrament is quite spiritual, nearly everyone kneels to receive and the bread is a big chunk of bread, takes some time and several bites to eat it and is not the blink-and-you-missed-it we're used to in standard lds meetings, also they use the 'wine' vernacular in the prayer, not water, and it is a full cup of grape juice.

This is what our family has done the past 8 or so months in our home.

[Redpilled Mormon]

... it's clear LDSFF has become infiltrated and now dominated by PDDoC (Phil Davis Doctrine of Christ) addicts.

lol, wut? I keep hoping someone who is actually part of the Doctrine of Christ group will come forward and speak up against your attacks. I'm not aware of a single forum member here who is definitely a member of the DoC group; instead it's left to me to jump in to defend against your unfair smears, even though I'm just a dude who was curious & went to 3 of their meetings and not actually one of them (and I even personally disagree with their conclusions on some things). Where exactly is this supposed onslaught of DoC members who have taken over the lds freedom forums?

[Niemand]

Well, Bro./Sis. Grassland, I know far more about him now than I did before. I think I only saw one post on him.

[Robin Hood]

As the person who helped Phil Davis build the sub group that would later become the DOC group. I suppose there’s no one more qualified to speak on this topic then myself. I’m the person who posted the controversial topic about my meeting with Enzio Buche.


Phil Davis is the friend who invited me to that meeting. He gave me his permission to use his name last year. There were others in attendance who wish to remain anonymous so for that reason I won’t be discussing any further details. Feel free to reach out to Phil for his side of the story.

I’ve also been a long time lurker here on the forum. One of my last posts was titled “what if the mark of the beast is a vaccine” Under the username Ikinessi back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?t=16369





Phil and I had a business relationship before he began holding meetings and preaching full time. As some of of you may already know Phil was the co-creator of a high end chocolate factory in downtown Provo. At the time I had an ice cream business that I was trying to get off the ground. I approached Phil about doing business together, and he allowed me to begin producing ice cream out of his chocolate factory. A year later Phil began teaching me about the doctrines of the Second Comforter, BOFHG….etc…etc! Shortly after, Phil would invite me to tag along with him on his teaching engagements. He would teach the lesson and then ask me to share my spiritual experiences, and testimony. This would lay the foundation for the sub group.

I’d like to take this time to speak to the Members of the DOC group directly. Aside from those of you who know me personally I imagine some of you have heard about me by now. Before the group turned into what it currently is our primary focus was on helping people to receive their BOFHG and 2C. Little by little Phil began prepping us for the idea that Joseph Smith would be returning soon. Almost immediately our focus shifted from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. The changes in the spirit were glaringly obvious to many of us. So much so, that many of the original group members ended up leaving.

We began drifting further and further away from our original intent. Which was to help people break free from IDOLATRY! Regardless of whoever you believe the servant is or isn’t. When the FAKES COME SWARMING IN the only way you will be able to discern the difference will be based on your relationship with Jesus Christ alone. Looking to anyone but Jesus is idolatry. Teaching people that Joseph is coming back before they’ve even received the Holy Ghost is only setting them up for failure in my opinion. I’m not asking you guys to believe in what I believe or to stop believing in what you believe. I’m only asking that you fix your gaze back upon Jesus. I know my words don’t carry much weight within Phil’s group anymore but as the co founder of the sub group I felt that I needed to say something. I enjoyed the movie, and I watch your videos from time to time. You guys seem to be doing some great things. But many of us who have since parted ways with Phil are very concerned as to where this group is heading. I hope you guys understand that I am reaching out to you as a brother in Christ. Tell Phil I’m here if he ever wants to catch up. I know he’s catching a lot of flack these days but maybe this is a good opportunity to reflect and reevaluate something’s. Take care and God bless!

Is there anything you would like to modify or clarify about the Enzio Busche incident as described previously?

[MikeMaillet]

I've never heard of Phil Davis and will probably not be following up on him. I read a Snuffer book a few years ago and tossed it in the trash because there was a darkness about it. It's not that I don't regard other people's opinions, it's just that I would rather form my own opinions first, through prayerful study and reliance on the Spirit before exploring elsewhere. One exception to this was A. Gileadi and the book of Isaiah. Gileadi provides the key into the method of prophesying amongst the Jews and it's up to us to figure out the metaphors and what they mean. Once the method is understood, Isaiah really opens up and great thanks are extended to Bro. Gileadi for doing this.

I find that if I ask specific answers to God about the scriptures that I eventually get a detailed answer. One can only learn to swim by immersing themselves in the water. The scriptures will open up to us only if we immerse ourselves in them.

I pray we will all find clarity, truth and beauty as we deepen our understanding of the scriptures. Why not ask the primal source of these words for clarity rather rely on someone else?

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

[IcedKoffee]

As the person who helped Phil Davis build the sub group that would later become the DOC group. I suppose there’s no one more qualified to speak on this topic then myself. I’m the person who posted the controversial topic about my meeting with Enzio Buche.


Phil Davis is the friend who invited me to that meeting. He gave me his permission to use his name last year. There were others in attendance who wish to remain anonymous so for that reason I won’t be discussing any further details. Feel free to reach out to Phil for his side of the story.

I’ve also been a long time lurker here on the forum. One of my last posts was titled “what if the mark of the beast is a vaccine” Under the username Ikinessi back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?t=16369





Phil and I had a business relationship before he began holding meetings and preaching full time. As some of of you may already know Phil was the co-creator of a high end chocolate factory in downtown Provo. At the time I had an ice cream business that I was trying to get off the ground. I approached Phil about doing business together, and he allowed me to begin producing ice cream out of his chocolate factory. A year later Phil began teaching me about the doctrines of the Second Comforter, BOFHG….etc…etc! Shortly after, Phil would invite me to tag along with him on his teaching engagements. He would teach the lesson and then ask me to share my spiritual experiences, and testimony. This would lay the foundation for the sub group.

I’d like to take this time to speak to the Members of the DOC group directly. Aside from those of you who know me personally I imagine some of you have heard about me by now. Before the group turned into what it currently is our primary focus was on helping people to receive their BOFHG and 2C. Little by little Phil began prepping us for the idea that Joseph Smith would be returning soon. Almost immediately our focus shifted from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. The changes in the spirit were glaringly obvious to many of us. So much so, that many of the original group members ended up leaving.

We began drifting further and further away from our original intent. Which was to help people break free from IDOLATRY! Regardless of whoever you believe the servant is or isn’t. When the FAKES COME SWARMING IN the only way you will be able to discern the difference will be based on your relationship with Jesus Christ alone. Looking to anyone but Jesus is idolatry. Teaching people that Joseph is coming back before they’ve even received the Holy Ghost is only setting them up for failure in my opinion. I’m not asking you guys to believe in what I believe or to stop believing in what you believe. I’m only asking that you fix your gaze back upon Jesus. I know my words don’t carry much weight within Phil’s group anymore but as the co founder of the sub group I felt that I needed to say something. I enjoyed the movie, and I watch your videos from time to time. You guys seem to be doing some great things. But many of us who have since parted ways with Phil are very concerned as to where this group is heading. I hope you guys understand that I am reaching out to you as a brother in Christ. Tell Phil I’m here if he ever wants to catch up. I know he’s catching a lot of flack these days but maybe this is a good opportunity to reflect and reevaluate something’s. Take care and God bless!

Is there anything you would like to modify or clarify about the Enzio Busche incident as described previously?

Everything I said in my OP about Busche happened exactly as I described. Phil, myself, and the others who were present shared the details of our meeting with the people in our group the following Sunday. I’m sure most of the DOC group have heard these details by now. The last time I spoke with Phil he said he’d be more than willing to share his side. Unfortunately, he’s very difficult to get a hold of unless your apart of his inner circle. Perhaps some of the DOC fellas can set something up??

As far as I go I’d rather not go into it any further. There’s not much more that I can say other than what I’ve already posted.

[762X545]

Who?

[IcedKoffee]

Who?

My apologies. I couldn’t tell if you were referring to the OP or to my comment. We were discussing a meeting that took place between myself, Phil Davis, and Enzio Busche. Please forgive the misspelling of Enzio’s last name. It’s titled “5 hours with Enzio Buche”! The post has been locked so I don’t know if you’ll be able to reply, but hopefully you can still read it’s contents.

[ransomme]

So has PD been Ex'd now/yet since they are doing their own Sacrament meetings?

That's interesting to think about. I one gets excommunicated for disagreeing on doctrine or some other type of political ex'ing, then is that the end of their priesthood?

I had heard of the DoC group, but I only found out who PD is right now. Man, why did you do this to me? Now I am listening to an interview. Will be the first and last one.

Oh, and are there any other known prominent members? The Hemlock Knots guys?